Church & State -The Risen Ministry with Dr.Tim Chaffey

Spokane Valley could become a sanctuary city. A different housman, Caleb Collier says that this I'm. Proposing that the City of Spokane Valley issue a proclamation stating that our city is a Second Amendment sanctuary. Welcome to the fire. Today on Church and State, there is a ministry with doctor Tim Chaffey. Hello Christian Patriots, and welcome to Church and State, where we drive morality and religion over tolerance and apathy. And I'm your host, Caleb Callier, once again, your favorite far right shock jock and the show that talks about politics and religion. Jesus Christ is our referee, so it's always nice and clean. Real quick, I'm going to take you over to Church and State dot media so that you can do a few things. Number one, I want you to fill out the registration form so you can get our newsletter and also a personal phone call from yours. Truly, that's right. Any of you who fill this out, I'm gonna call you. You're gonna have my number while you're there. 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And so, if you like the content, if you like some of the guests, the show topics, and please consider hitting the donate button, even if something as small as ten dollars a month can make a big difference for us. Lastly, if you want to get a hold of us, Church and State seventeen seventy six at Proton dot me. With that, let's get into it now. I am excited to bring on our guest doctor Tim Chafey. He is an incredible individual. He works as a content manager for the attractions divisions at Answers in Genesis that's right, the Creation Museum, the arc and Counter. Many of you have probably been there. You married, does incredible work as a as an athlete doing some well jogs. I suppose his best to say. He's also six foot eight and we're going to be discussing the nephelim on today's episode. So, doctor Tim, it is awesome to have you on the show. Caleb, thanks so for having me on. Looking forward to it, and yeah six point eight. That's one of the reasons why I got into this topic in the first place. People kept calling me a giant or nepoline all the time, and I thought, let me see what that's. Really all about. Yeah, it makes sense. So you were sharing off air that because your your name is Tim, it was Tim or something like that. Yeah. My boss at Answers and ken Ham or our CEO and founder, he jokes by he called me neffle Tim. But I guess since I brought up a g I should mention that what we're going to be talking about today is something that as a ministry we don't get into We have differences of opinion on that, and that's fine. We still get along great and work for the ministry's mission that God has called us to do. But but we are allowed to talk about this on our own and that's what we're doing. So I got to say, I love that. I think more Christians need to have that at these secondary issues. You know, these aren't primary. You know, this doesn't what your. Belief is about the giants isn't going to you know, God's not going to look at it and say, well, you don't get into heaven now. No, we can have conversations and still be friends at the end of the day, right. I mean, I wouldn't be worried about it because I got the right view, but I'd be worried for my friends. If it were. I love that. I absolutely love that. Let's break that down a little bit because there are two primary schools of thought when it comes to discussions about the Giant or the giants, and kind of going off of well, going off with Genesis six y four. There you and I believe that the fallen angels came and made it with humankind and created these hybrid half angelic half human beings called the Nephelim. And then there are others who believe that this is just the lineage of Seth and they weren't supposed to mate with you know, the I guess Cain's ancestry, right. Yeah, that's the probably the next most popular view, you know, in the for a lay level Christianity. There's a third view that's pretty popular amongst scholars, and that is that the sons of God who took the daughters of men, the sons of God would be like rulers or nobles who were taking women into their harems, and so then their sin would be would be polygamy, and that's what being condemned there. So that one's pretty popular among some scholars. And so really there's three views, but for a lot of people in the public, it's the two that you outlined. So, I mean, it does lead to the question of how did the other two belief systems? How did giants emerge out of this? Yeah, And that's a great question because they don't really have an answer for it. What they do is they look at Genesis six four and a lot of our English Bibles are rather ambiguous. Here. For example, here is the New American Standards says there were giants. That's the word nephiline, right there, There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward when the sons of God came into the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of bold men every now and and so they look at it and say, well, the giants were already there when this was taking place, And it doesn't say that they were the result of these unions between the sons of God and the daughters of men. Actually the Hebrew does. The Hebrew were translated as when is the word asher, And if we look at our various Hebrew grammars, they'll say that in this instance, because of the construction, it refers to an event that happened in the past and at regular or irregular intervals since then. So, in other words, whenever, if we read it that way, then it clarifies the whole that whole passage about who the Nephelene were. There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, whenever the sons of God came into the daughters of men. So the nephiline are the result of those unions, and yeah, the sons of Seth mating with the daughters of Cain doesn't doesn't produce. Giants, No, it would not. Yeah, and then there are a lot of other problems with that view as well. I mean the way that they use the word man in in those first four verses. And now it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth. That's mankind in general as referring to all mankind, and daughters were born to them. So daughters born to all mankind. Then it says, but the sons of God saw the daughters of men. Then they're like, well, the daughters of men, that's the line of Cain. No, the daughters of men in verse two, the same as the daughters who were born to men in general in verse one. There's no reason why you should think of them as being all daughters of men in verse one. And suddenly now it's just this line of Cain. And then in verse three you're back to all men. In verse four, they're back to just the men in just this one line. And so they're kind of picking and choosing what they want the terms to mean, rather than just reading consistently. Sure. I mean that's to me when I read through the Word of God, this is what makes the most sense to me. And certainly with you know, giants emerging and really being a terror upon the earth, I don't see any other way that this happens unless fallen angels mate with humankind. And really it also speaks to you know, Satan's schemes, you know, Satan's Satan and the angels that joined him, the third of angels that joined him. Ever since really the beginning we can read in the Garden of Eden, Satan has been on this destructive path to create chaos, to destroy what God intended, and certainly for in my view, mating with humankind and creating these hybrids that are not actual God's creation. I think that adds up. Yeah, it seems to be part of the the effort there in Genesis sixes. I mean, it doesn't really give us a motive other than it tells us in verse two that they saw the daughter of the men were beautiful. So whether it's lust or something is involved. But that doesn't mean there can't be other motives as well. But I think you hit on something important there when you if I can take a minute here to try to explain. This might be a little confusing for some people to think through. But when we think about how to read Genesis one, well really all of Genesis, not just Genesis one three eleven, which one came first in terms of but like think of the original audience. The original audience for this book would have been the Israelites at or shortly after Mount Sinai. You know, maybe during that forty years of wilderness wandering and right after Sinai had the spies going to the land and they see the Anachem names three of them in numbers thirteen. The narrator tells us that they're there. So Moses tells us that the spies saw three giants in the land, then tells us later on at the end of numbers thirteen that the Anachem or of the nepheline, so they know there's giants in land. Deuteronomy two and Deudonomy three tells us that talks about og the king of Bashan, and it tells us that there are giants in and around the land. So when Moses is writing Genesis and he says the nepheline were on the earth in those days, he's talking about before the flood and also afterward. So after the flood, well, they knew that because they're. Seeing them, oh like the refeem. Yeah. Actually, the Bible tells us that Ogg was the last of the Rafaeim. That's another word that means giants. But then there were the giant tribes as well, them the Zamzumm. The Bible talks about them. The Amorites are described later on in Amos as being their height as like the oak, so it describes them as giants as well. So there's giants throughout the land and all along the border of the land. And when Moses writes that passage in Genesis six about the Sons of God and the nepheline, his original audience, the israelitess would have known exactly who he's talking about because they know nepheline means giants and they know that's what it's referring to. It doesn't mean fallen ones or something like that that a lot of people today think it means. And they know who the sons of God are because Dude only thirty two also mentions them in two different places, and it's referring to angelic beings so that original audience would have understood this passage as being about these angelic beings who rebelled against God and made it with women and produced giants. And it happened before the flood, and it happened after the flood. Yeah, And that actually leads me to a question I was going to ask you. So there's a lot of confusion as to how there was a second incursion. If some of the giants survived the flood there, if they came down a second. Time and made it again, what are your thoughts on that. I think Genesis six four gives us the clue that we need if we understand that understand ascher to be translated as whenever the nepheline were on the earth in those days before the flood, and also afterward after the flood, whenever the sons of God came into the daughters of men and board children to them. These were the mighty men of all men every now and so whenever they did that, which would be before the flood and after the flood. The Bible is pretty clear that only eight people survived the flood, and it's Noah has wiped their three sons, and then the daughters in law, Noah's daughters in law, So there nepheline were not on the arc at all, and it seems like part one of the purposes of the flood is to wipe them out, So why would God allow somebody with that genetic makeup on the arc, So that that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. But if we understand Genesis sixty four as saying whenever instead of when, I think we have our answer to. It, it's really interesting. So theoretically it could happen again. I think that it could well. Possibly the one Peter versus Peter and Jude tell us that the ones who were engaged in that are being held in chains or in prison until the day of judgment, and so those ones are not able to do it again. Is it possible that there are other angels with the same capacity, the same abilities that are able to do that. Maybe, But I don't know that it's necessary because if you think of back then it seems as that they're trying to prevent God's word from coming to pass. So, like you talked about this before the flood, you know, corrupting this, corrupting humanity so that God's not going to bring about his promise that there'd be a seat of the woman who is going to destroy the serpent. But after the flood, you have God telling Abraham in Genesis fifteen. He says that they're at the Oaks of Memory, which is in Hebron, and he tell them, your descendants are going to go down to a land that's not their own. They're going to serve them and be oppressed for four hundred years. Of course, I was talking about Egypt, and then I'm going to bring them back here. And because the iniquity of the Amorites are not yet complete, so God's going to judge this group of people, the Amorites, but not yet. He's being patient. But he's in Hebron when he says that when the spies going to the land and Moses tells us that they saw three of the giants, three of the Anachem. Where were they in Hebron. Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like Satan, because Satan can't know God's plan until God announces God's plan. And I think he could have heard what God said to Abram and thought, I'm going to make sure that that doesn't happen. And so it seems like he had puts the headquarters of the nefeline right there in Hebron, the one place where God say he's going to bring back And it's not like Satan can work God's plan. It seems like he's trying to. But back then, how did you win a battle? Well, who's ever the biggest and the strongest? Right now, if you know, if our enemy had a giant or something big deal, we'd launch a cruise, missile or something else from me one hundreds of miles away. It's more about here and technology than it is about brute strength. So I don't know that it would even be necessary to do something like that today. Well, let me ask you a question about present times, because the US government is quite the enigma for me and for many others. But for the longest time, if you brunt. Up aliens, UFOs, anything like that, the government was massive cover ups. You know, it was a weather balloon, nothing to see here, kind of a mentality. And just as of late they really opened it up. And now they're declassifying things and saying, yes, you know, we have had encounters with with UFOs, with with other worldly beings. To me personally, when I look at this, I see demonic. If somebody is dealing with an alien entity, you're dealing with a demon, and I stand firm on that. But do you see the potential for another incursion here with the Nephilim, with these demonic entities as we potentially maybe come into the end of days? Not necessarily. I do agree that some of the UFO alien activity, all of that kind of stuff that people report, I don't think all of those are just weather balloons. I don't think they're all just swamp gas or something. Is that what it was in Men in Black? I don't think it's just all that. I think there are times where people just see something that had nothing to do with demons and they just don't know what it is. But I think there are enough reports, especially with the abduction scenarios, where people claim to have been abducted, but when they cry out to Jesus for help, suddenly it instantly stops. And so that would lead me tobly that, yeah, there are some of these cases where it is demonic, and I look at that as more of a I mean, it could be similar to what we're talking about. But I think that Satan in a sense views himself as having two roles prevent people from becoming saved, from getting saved, and those who are saved make them ineffective. And so if you can distract them, you can get them focused on anything other than Jesus. Do that. And for people who are, you know, maybe even considering Christianity and then suddenly, oh wait, are there aliens from other planets? Well then we're not all that special. And the Bible seems to imply that we're special, that this is where God made man. But if there's creatures all over the place, then maybe it really is just made up in the Bible. But I don't believe that there is life from other planets. If God wanted to do that, he could, but there's no indication in scripture that he did anything like that. Earth is the focal point of his plan. He made it before he made the other planets, and this is where he sent his son to die, to become a human being, to die for human beings. And so I don't think there's any reason to think that there truly are. Aliens. But what people I think sometimes are seeing maybe is something that is probably is demonic. Yeah, I love what you just said there, and in fact I subscribe to a geocentric universe. I believe we truly are the center of the universe, and the universe is is expanding away from a focal point. I believe that's that's us, that we are that focal point, and I base that off of the Bible. Okay, well I would have a different view, but obviously that is not a salvation issue where we have to exmunicate each other because we don't understand because we have a different understanding of how our solar system or the universe itself works. And yeah, it's I think with any their system. We recognize that God's focus is here and Christ is our savior, and that the devil wants to prevent him from being, prevent him from saving people. So absolutely, let me ask you another question about this because my personal belief on this, and you know, I'm going to be basing it off the Bible, but there might not be things in the Bible that point directly to this, but I believe that they're in the in the healthscape, I suppose the best way to put it, there are fallen angels, and then I believe that demons are actually the disembodied souls of the Nephilim. What are your thoughts on that. Yeah, so that was a that view was common in the early Church, and it's somewhat common today among people who hold this view that we're talking about, that the sons of God were rebellious angels who made it with women. So I'm not convinced that that's accurate, that the demons are something different than the fallen angels. I see it as a possibility. I got a friend who, Doug van Dorn maybe you know who that is, wrote a book called Giants, and he has a whole chapter laying out the case for that, and in my book, I have one chapter where I show like his four or five best arguments and respond to those. One of the reason why I don't subscribe to that is because the word that you mentioned earlier, the rafayem in the historical books. So from when when's the first time it shows up in Deuteronomy? I think from Deuteronomy through First and Second Samuel forst Second Chronicles. When that word appears, it's referring to giants on the earth. You know, the like Goliath is called a rapha, which is singular for repayem, and so that word is referring to the physical giants who are on the earth. But when it's in the prophets, which were written after those books, that word appears several times, and each time it's referring to spirits who are in the underworld, in in shale that are waiting for somebody to die. It's like a taunt against somebody, like, hey, you thought you were you're going to be here, but instead you're going to be brought low and oh you remember the refie. You're going to run into them down there. And so it doesn't seem like their spirits are roaming the earth and free to possess people. I think that they are are in shale and running around it. So but I want to be dogmatic, and I think there's a lot of things about the afterlife and that the whole relationship between is shale different from haites or it's the same thing as there are different parts of haities. I mean, there's just a lot that the Bible gives us a little hints at, and then it's like, can we have another book that explains that more detail? But we don't get that excellent, Okay, So. With the with the you know that these giants that that are written about in the Bible, and including you brought up Peter and Jude that they're talking about it as well. I do believe that humanity was able to basically exterminate that bloodline entirely. Or is there still I guess as people would mate, you know that those those attributes that they that they're are described with these giants would lessen and lesson and lesson. Is there still people potentially out there with Nephelin bloodlines in them? Yeah, it's a it's a good question. I I don't think so. And again, being six foot eight, I know we joked before going on, I'm my fingers. Even though the Bible didn't say that all of them were six fingers, there's one who was described. That with six fingers and six toes. But they disappear from the page of the scripture right around right after David's time. So David, mighty men kill some some of golias brothers or descendants, depending on how that's translated, and from that point on they're not really mentioned again, unless, like you talked about the demons in the New Testament, if those are the disembodied spirits of the nephilin Uh, then then we'd see them there, but. I don't think, well, let me the way I describe them. I don't. I don't usually describe them as hybrids, like they're half angel half man. The Bible calls them men. They were mighty men of old, men of renown even, and maybe the reason for that. I think the angels who did this took on human form to to procreate, to commit this activity. So so I don't usually think of like having half angel blood and half human blood like sometimes people will describe it. I think that they were fully human but large, and I don't think that under the Giant was one of them. I don't think that you know that I'm a descendant of them or anything. But I don't know that they were necessarily completely wiped out at David's time either. There there are legends from around the world that talk about giants in ancient times. Sometimes there are associated with the flood, sometimes not, sometimes afterward. And I think it's plausible or possible that some of them were not in Israeli or the land of Canaan, or maybe they fled from there when Joshua and Israelite came in to conquer the land. Maybe they fled and reached distant places, and that's where some of the legends come from. Yeah, I mean, that's certainly my take. Pretty Much every culture throughout history has stories of giants. Certainly in North America there's a lot of tales of this. You go down into the South America, Central America, they all have stories of giants, and so I think definitely they spread out throughout the world. As my personal belief, I suppose they could have heard stories from, you know, the ancient Israelites and incorporated that into their own culture, but I tend to believe that they probably did exist in other lands as well. Yeah, it's also possible that they you know, as people spread out from Babel, they're taking their history with him. Everybody had a shared history at that point of creation, man being made from the dusk of the ground, man rebelling against God by eating the fruit after the serpent tempted Eve. Then giants in the land, and then there's a great flood and then the Babel event. And you find those details in a lot of cultures around the world before missionary to get there. So it seems even though there's a lot of distortions, so it could be a result of them just passing that tradition of that history down, but it could also be some of them they encountered them. That I find really intriguing is the Odyssey. So you have you have Odysseus leaving the Battle. Of Troy, right and he's trying to get home, and the first island he gets to is the island of the Listrigonians, and you know, these giant come out and sink all but one of his ships, and they start spearing people like fish and eating them, and then he gets one his ship gets away, and the next island they go to is the island of the Cyclops, who's a giant who eats human flesh. And it sounds bizarre, and there's a lot of things that are strange in the Odyssey, but the time period of that, to me is really interesting because that's only about one hundred to two hundred years after Joshua entered the land. And if they're coming from the south and from the east, that means if you were in that land and you fled, you would go north and or west, which is into the Mediterranean, and that's right where Odysseus ends up. And so also the thing that's really intriguing in numbers thirteen, when the spies come back and give their report, they say, it's a good land, here's its fruit. Remember they're carrying the grapes and everything, and they're talking about how great it is. But it's a land that devours its inhabitants. What if we take that pretty literally that the giants that they saw were actually eating people, then that's when the that's when the Israelite get really scared, which they shouldn't have been. God brought them through the Red Sea, he wiped out the Egyptians, he did all these plagus. He could, he could take care of the giants in the land too. But as soon as they mentioned that, that's when the people get scared, and then they have to wander the wilderness for forty years instead of entering the land. So there's that also, that consistent theme around a lot of these cultures that the giants would eat people, and a lot of times they have a connection between heaven and earth like they're half of each Even doesn't sound weird, but even like Jack and the Beanstalk has that right, the giants are they live halfway between heaven and earth, and what do they do? They want to they want to eat people. So that that does seem to be very common around the world, and I think it's because there's a basis and reality for it. Sure, what does your take on the story of Gilgamesh? Uh? I think that there similarly, there is a historical core to that. Obviously they havena pishtam is the dark Builder, so that would be the Noah character, and then Gilgamesh and I think and kid are also like, they're they're giants, they're part they seem to be what are they too, Third's angel human is rather than half something like that or that. No, that's what the Apkalu I think are. But yeah, so they're they're giants and I don't know exactly where they would fit in. It does seem to be something that is well, it's in the Middle East, it's in Mesopotamia, and they would be early on after Babbel, I think. But so I think that I think there's a historical basis for that. But I'm sure there's embellishment like we find in a lot of the mythology and legends. I would agree, you know, personally, I think this is probably Nimrod just going by a different name. Personally, and you know there's a there's a lot of context to that that can back that up. Now we're coming. Nimrod is not even his name that that's like, I think it comes from the word for like rebel or something like that. Like these people want to make a name for themselves in the Bible. Is like, oh, yeah, we're not going to even remember your name, so we're gonna just. Call you something else. So yeah, I think that's a possibility. So I want to real quick point everybody to your website, risen Men. Am I in risenmen dot com. This is where you can look up. You've written a number of books. You're not just you know, obviously an author on the study of the giants, but you're an apologist, you're a theologian. So I want people to go to that website. And we've hit that heard break moment. But don't worry, laies and gentlemen, we are coming back. We're going to finish this episode. Ladies and gentlemen. I want all of you to be a walking billboard. Some of us don't have platforms such as church and state, but you know what, we can wear T shirts and engage in great conversations with Christians and Patriots all across the country. Stand Up Now Apparel is the best T shirts out there. These are American made, owned by a Christian and a Patriot, and the material it's like getting a warm hug from yours truly. One of the better things as well, is there's no tags. I hate tags. I know you do as well. I don't know how many times I've cut off a tag and ended up with a hole in my shirt. 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You're over at Churchandstate dot Media and we're going to go right back to our guests real quick though, And I'm not going to labor this, but i want you to check out the affiliates, and I'm just going to tell you to go to any of the affiliates that you like. We got a lot of great stuff shirts, ghost phones, storable food, meThe Wine Blue and with all of those you can hit the promo code Church and State. You get a discount and you'll hope to support us. And please once again hit the donate button for us to keep us alive and on the air. That's so vital to keeping this show going, So please hit that donate button for us. All right, let's go right back to it. And I sped through that because we had a little bit of some technical difficulties and we have another guest coming on at ten, so I want to get right back to our guest, doctor Tim Chafey, and we're talking about you know, we're talking about the Nephilim. But he's written this book fallen five hundred pages, the Sons of God and the Nephlum, and it is called the most in depth the Bible study available on this controversial subject. I can't wait to read this, sir. I'm going to order this book because I'm excited to get into this. But tell us a little. Bit more about this book that you've written. Yeah, so, originally it was the I had to choose the topic for my thhm thesis back in to eleven, and because I had been called giants so many times, and because I was always fascinated by this topic, I thought, well, let me let me write on that. But he hadn't done already, and I was shocked to find there really wasn't much scholarly work on it. There was a lot of lay level stuff, but I couldn't find dissertations or anything. And so I thought, okay, let me do that. And as I dug into it, it not only confirmed that the view I thought was right is the right view, There's a lot more in the Bible about it than I ever imagined. It's not just those four verses in Genesis six. They keep showing up time and again, and then numbers thirteen as well, but it does shape a large part of what we see in scripture. And it was really an interesting topic, but that had to be really you know, technical, because it's a thesis. And so that was like one hundred and fifty page and I thought, if I get the time, I'm going to rewrite that at the lay level so that everybody can read it. And then it. Grew and grew and grew because there was so much more to write about. And so this book doesn't even get into a lot of the topics that modern that other books on this subject get into, like you know, where their giant skeletons found throughout the United States, you know, in the last one hundred and fifty years or so, and that the Smithsonian is covering up. I don't maybe, but I don't need that because what I want to do is focus on what the Bible says on the topic. And so if you want an in depth Bible study, the first sixteen chapters are about the identity of the Sons of God. It goes through the three major views and then gives the strengths and the objections to those views. There's five chapters just on like people that the arguments people use against the idea that the sons of God are angelic beings. So I go through every objection I've ever heard, and many that most people would never have thought of or heard of, Pau, I want to be very thorough. And then the last half of the book is about the giants themselves and go through what the scripture has to say about them. And yeah, so that's what I've set out to do, is just to create the most detailed Bible study on the topic that's been written. Fantastic. Last question that I really want to ask you is why is this important? I'll just be a little bit of the devil's advocate, right as a Christian? You know, why is this important? Why? Why are we even writing? Why are we're taking the time to look at this, examine it, study it when it could potentially be taking away from the gospel message, right, that emphasis on Jesus. Why is this important as a Christian to understand? Yeah, I think that's a great question. And you know what, I've written a book on the resurrection called Indefensive Easter, Answering Critical Challenges to the Resurrection of Jesus. That was my favorite book ever write, because every day that I'm working on I'm studying the resurrection, which is the greatest topic to be studying and writing about, and that was so much more enjoyable than sometimes in this book. I felt like, after writing a chepter, I have to go take a shower, just because that you have to dig into it. It's rather disturbing at times, but I think it's important for a couple of reasons. One, it's in the Bible. The Holy Spirit inspired the writing of God's word, and that means that the Holy Spirit said, is telling us this is important. It doesn't mean of the same level of importance as the Gospel, but it's in there, and we're supposed to be studying his words, so we shouldn't ignore it and just gloss over it like a lot of people do you know, Oh, that's controversial, or that's confusing, or I don't like it, therefore I'm going to skip it. Well, no, We're supposed to study Guy's words, So I think that's one reason. The other one is because it can lead to the Gospel. There are a lot of people who maybe won't set foot in the doors of a church, but they might pick up a book on this topic. Or you mentioned the UFO alien stuff earlier, they might pick up a book on that topic. And if that is a way that we can introduce people to the Gospel, then let's do it. I think anything that we can use in our culture that people are interested in, then we should be using that to point people to Jesus Christ. I absolutely love that, because the Bible is the only book that I know of that has all the answers that you will ever need, and so we should not shy away from any subject, even if we believe this isn't of importance. Obviously, not just the men who wrote it, but they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, so they were directed to put this in here. Everything has intention behind it, every every word used in the Word of God. So I absolutely love that, Sir. I'm going to once again point everybody to your website website Risen mid m I n I want to make sure we get that right, risenmen dot com. We're showing that once again. And sir, last words for the audience here. Well, I think it would go along with what we just talked about. Don't spend so much time focusing on what our enemy has done, but focus on what our savior has done. We need to be You know, we need to be wise of serpents, right, but we also need to be like dope, So we need to we need to be aware of what the enemy is doing, but we don't want to focus too much of our energy. And efforts on that. We should be praising God for what he has done and sharing the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ with this world that's so desperately needs to hear it. Absolutely. Yeah, well, I gotta tell you, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your work, not just on this subject. I love what you're doing with the Arc Encounter and your ministry over there and all the different books that you've written. So once again to the audience risenmin dot com go check that out. And I'm gonna go ahead and close this out, sir, if you hold on one more minute post production, sayah, goodbyes. I appreciate it, but again, thank you for your time here. On Church and State. Thanks Caleb. I pursue it absolutely all right. There you go, ladies and gentlemen. You know it's a fascinating study and I do believe what my guest and I were talking about that you should pour through the scriptures. You should study every single aspect of it. This is one that fascinates me personally. I've devoted a lot of time here at Church and State on covering this topic. But once again with the scripture, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Church of State is brought to your part by Colonial Life, Spokane, Independent Agents, Finders Insurance and Mark three seven dot com. I'm Caleb Collier. I was born for a storm. Welcome to the fire. This is Caleb Callier with Church and State. Are you tired of your device spying on you? Ladies and gentlemen. We live in nineteen eighty four. Your phones, your tablets, your smart televisions, they all are spying on you. And this is why I heavily endorse Mark thirty seven dot com. This is everything you need for your digital privacy. Phones, tablets, laptops. 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