Church & State -The Second Amendment Foundation with Kostas Moros

Pocine Valley could become a sanctuary city. A different Houseman Caleb Collier says that this I'm. Proposing that the City of Spokane Valley issue a proclamation stating that our city is a Second Amendment sanctuary. Welcome to the fire. Today on Church and State, the Second Amendment Foundation with Costas Moros. Hello Christian patriots, and welcome to Church and State, where we drive morality and religion over tolerance and apathy. And I'm your host, Caleb Callier, once again, your favorite far right shock jock and the show that talks about politics and religion. Jesus Christ is our referee, so it's always nice and clean. Real quick point you to the website Church and State dot media. Fill out this form for us. Ladies and gentlemen, get our newsletter, get in contact with us. Censorship is real and we can send you directly our shows. But also I personally call every single one of you who fills this out, so please do so. 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So that takes money, ladies and gentlemen, and we need your help. Even something as small as ten dollars a month can make it massive difference for us, So please hit the donate button. Lastly, if you want to get ahold of us Church and State seventeen seventy six at Proton dot me. With that, let's go ahead and bring on our guest. I'm so pleased to have coastus moros. Sorry, Costas Moros, No, I'm saying it wrong, Coastess Moros. He is the saf. Director of Legal Research and Education the Second Amendment Foundation. Sir, it is a pleasure to have you on the show. Caleb, thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So this is an issue that's near and dear to my heart. Obviously you saw with the intro back when I was a politician. Don't worry, I'm self loathing there. I'm no longer a politician. But I tried to make this, yeah, exactly, but I did try to make our city a Second Amendment sanctuary city. Kind of tongue in cheek during the whole sanctuary city thing, but I tried it. It failed. But obviously the Second Amendment is very, very important to not just myself but Americans. Yeah, it's it's the second in the Bill of Rights. We think for a reason. You know, the founders when they drafted up the Bill rights, Madison and the others who revised it, they listed free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association. But then right after that they said, oh, and by the way, you need to have a right to keep in bare arms for any of that. Other stuff to really mean anything. So that's the way we see it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's it's essential to everything that is America, this experiment in liberty and continuing to keep those freedoms that are God given. You need a firearm to do so, like the one behind me. Tell us a little bit about your history here. You know how you started. You're obviously a lawyer, but what drew you to this job line of defending the Second Amendment? Sure, so, I mean I started off. I became a lawyer in twenty fifteen, and for the first few years I did typical lawyer stuff. I did employment offense. I did some business immigration, you know, people like businessmen who needed visas and stuff. Did that for a while, and then in twenty nineteen, something called Freedom Week happened in California, which was when Judge Benitez issued a ruling striking down California's magazine ban. That was eventually stayed, but for about a week you could buy standard magazines. That's why we called it Freedom Week. And even now you get to keep them. If you had them, then they're protected by various court orders. While that case, which is still going works its way through the Supreme Court, and I reached out to the firm that did that because I'm like, Hey, this is awesome that you guys did this. I didn't know this was a thing in California. How do I work for you? And I ended up eventually moving to LA and joining that from called Michellan Associates. I still have a lot of great colleagues there, former colleagues. Rather, they represent the California Rifle and Pistol Association, So I worked there until last year, and then last year I moved over to the Second Amendment Foundation, which has does still work in California. In fact, they partner with CRPA on a bunch of cases, but we also have national cases in all the other states too. We have over fifty active cases. And now I take a more higher level approach. I draft a meek as briefs, which our friend of the court briefs and courts across the country. I sometimes help strategize for new litigation, and I even lead. Right now, I am suing Contracosta, So I do still directly handle some cases myself, one right now, hopefully more in the future, but it's a broader role than I used to have. Well, we appreciate your work. I'm going to ask you, what's it like being a Second Amendment. Lawyer in La Oh? You get punched in the face a lot. No, it is a it's a brutal place. But I like playing in hard mode, so it works out. You know. I could go practice in Texas and I tease my lawyer friends who practice in Texas that they're playing on easy mode. I'm playing on hard mode, you know. But we've won. Yeah, it is a lot of losing because even when we win in the district court, we have a hostile Ninth Circuit, which you know about if you're in Washington still that likes to overturn our wins. But we've still managed to squeeze out some important ones. For example, I led the lawsuit CRPA versus lasd which established non resident carry in California. So because of that our lawsuit there, California now must issue permits to non residents from other states. So for the first time in modern history, someone who's not from California has the right to carry in California. Now you still have to go through the process and it's a pain, but even that is something more than we used to have. And staff is working towards full reciprocity of course in the courts, but you got to start somewhere, so oh absolutely, example. Yeah, yeah, no, I will admit, and I think I'm not the only one. It is a bit of an enigma that, you know, this American history and the wild West, right, you'd move to the West and you'd go out there because it was new. You could go and start a life and start a business, and the gold Rush obviously in California and now the West Coast. I mean, you brought up the Ninth Circuit, which is the worst in the country. But they've some of the most atrocious gun laws in Washington, Oregon, California, and there really is a lack of freedom all the way around, it seems. Yeah, it's a huge problem. And another reason that it's maybe blessing in disguise that I live in California is it keeps me motivated, you know. But we have all sorts of crazy laws. You know. We're suing them over their new eleven percent tax on guns and AMMO, which is probably coming to your state eventually if we don't beat it here. We're suing them over trying to ban carry effectively everywhere we're suing Santa Clara County because they charged two thousand dollars to get a carry permit. You know, we had to force la in another successful lawsuit. They were taking two years to issue carry permits and we sued them and that's ended. Now it takes about three months, which is still slow but better than two years. So it's just a never ending fight, and every time we win something, it seems like they pass two more laws. So you know, we're doing our best over here. But ultimately, like like I always urge people, we're happy to fight this for you in courts, but it would be a lot easier if everyone got out and voted, because that would be it's much more straightforward than you know, waiting on the mercy of the Ninth Circuit to save you or the Supreme Court. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I liked what you said about Washington too, because I've joked on this show multiple times that Washington's like the little brother of California, you know, like kind of looking up like, oh you did that, we'll do that too, And it's it's horrific to watch. And we have a terrible governor in Washington that used to be our Attorney General, which is the whole reason why I tried to make our city a Second Amendment sanctuary city because of attacks on high capacity magazines and assault weapons, whatever those are. So yeah, the fight is real for all of us, and obviously not just the West Coast. It's it's throughout the entire United States. This is an essential right, and I agree with you. We should be. Voting, and we're not, unfortunately, and especially in states like California or Washington, where Republicans when you look at the data numbers, they're not coming out, they're not doing the voting for that and libertarians constitutional is the same thing. So I'm so appreciative of an. Organization like yours that is taking it and saying, hey, legally, we have the right to carry. Yeah, I mean, and I want to say something about voting too, because sometimes when I make that argument, people will be like, well, come on, California is a sixty forty state. We have no chance even if every Republican showed up. But that's not necessarily true, because yeah, I'm not saying that the next governor is going to be a Republican, although I'm going to vote for I don't even remember his name the British guy running for governor in California. It's sad that I don't remember his name off the top of my head. But what it would do. Let's say, instead of winning sixty five thirty five, it's only fifty five forty five or fifty two forty eight and it's close, that would actually put some fear in the Democrats to moderate their position. So even losing but losing close, it kind of scares the other side into behaving. When they're winning by twenty thirty points, of course they're going to trample our rights. You know, they feel like they have a mandate to do so. So yes, please show up to vote, because it does matter. Even if you don't manage to win, it moves the ball forward. I love what you just said there, because that is so important when you are looking at that. In the California politicians, they're looking at the voting tallies, right, They're seeing it, the numbers, and they say, hey, this is why we can go after the Second Amendment. This is why we feel safe to have you know, boys participating in girls' sports and pushing transgender agendas in all the public schools. It's because they know they have nothing to fear. So yes, you get that fear, and you're right, it become it forces them to become a whole lot more moderate and personally, and I mean, I'm a libertarian, but personally I prefer a more moderate Democrat than one of these rabid socialist Democrats. Yeah, I mean, right now, I feel like a lot of us would kill for in nineteen eight style Democrats. That'd be a lot better. Bring back Michaels, right, yeah, oh he was Greek too, Like there you go. No, I'm absolutely with you. So for the audience who maybe doesn't necessarily know your organization and the work that you do, can you describe it for us? Sure? So the Second Amendment Foundation, like I said, has over fifty active cases currently. But we're actually a you know, I think it was last year we celebrated our fiftieth anniversary. So we were founded by Alan Gottlieb. Actually our headquarters is in Bellevue in Washington. Was just there a few months ago for a company meet up. But yeah, we're a nonprofit and we've been behind a number of Second Amendment victories. The most famous one is a case in twenty ten in the Supreme Court called McDonald v. Chicago, which is the case that after Heller said that Heller essentially applies to the states, because if you recall dcv. Heller said there's an individual right to keep in bare arms, but that was against DC, which is a federal enclave, and there was a debate over well, does you know it limits the federal government, but does it limit the states? And in our case in twenty ten, the Supreme Court confirmed this is a fundamental right under the fourteenth Amendment, so that means it does apply to the states. So that's our most famous case, but we've had a series of smaller victories since then, and we have a big one coming next year because a couple of weeks ago we were granted review in the Supreme Court in a case called via Montes, Cook County. That's one of our cases, and it's going to decide the assault weapons issued nationally. That's going to be heard in the Supreme Court's next term. So we're very hopeful for our next monumental victory in the Supreme Court. Yeah. Absolutely, I love that you bring up the state's rights thing here. Obviously is a libertarian. I'm a big fan of the ninth and tenth amendments. But a lot of these state constitutions. I know, for example, Washington State has a great Second Amendment in our state constitution. What's the state constitution look like in California in regards to firearms? There's no right to keep in bare arms in the California constitution. So yeah, we're we entirely rely on the Second Amendment. I'd have to double check that, but I think there may have been one once, but I'm rusty on my history. Point is, right now, there isn't one in the state constitution. Wow, that is I mean, that's is that one of the few states that has that? There doesn't and I should. Say it's one of the few, it's one of the few. There's actually debates. I don't mean to get too dorky here, but in the nineteenth century they debated it and they basically felt it would be redundant with the Second Amendment, and the attitude was, well, we don't even need that. And maybe in the nineteenth century they didn't because nobody was trying to pass these sorts of laws. But who could they could? They couldn't have known what California would become one hundred and fifty years later. I guess, boy, that is extremely short sighted in my opinion. There. You know, if anybody as a student of history, they know that governments tend to grow, and when governments tend to grow, they become a lot more tyrannical and oppressive. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean California at the time was you know, their main concern was people in the gold Rush shooting at each other. So I guess that's what they were, you know, love shying away from. But California was pretty great for gun rights, with some exceptions like the Molford Act and stuff, but it was pretty great until the nineteen eighties and then it all kind of fell apart around the time it became a one party state, of course. Yeah. Sure, yeah, And that's why so many people are fleeing that state in droves. You're seeing a mass migration people going to Texas. You were sharing with you about your colleague that's playing on easy mode. But a lot of the conservatives are racing out of that state. Yeah. I mean, it's the first time in California's history that it's lost population. You know, we've been growing and growing and growing, and now for the first time we lost an electoral college vote, which is good. I'm happy about that because we spend our electoral college votes very stupidly in my opinion, and we're in the next census, assuming there's no questionable counting, we should lose a few more because California has lost I think, in total, about half a million people in the last several years, which I mean doesn't sound like that much when you're talking about a state with thirty nine million people, but again, it's the first time the state has ever shrunk in its history. So yeah, you're absolutely right. And there was such a draw to California. And you know that California is such an amazing state as somebody was born there and lived there for a lot of years, served in the Marine Corps there. I mean, from deserts to some of the most beautiful oceans. You could imagine the mountains you get up towards like Shasta, it's absolutely gorgeous there. You know, San Francisco is still one of the most beautiful cities, or it used to be used to be one of the most beautiful cities in the world. And there was just this land of opportunity there, and I mean you have to point the finger at these Democrats for ruining literally the Golden Goose. Yeah, I mean, California has every natural advantage you could ask for. It has, you know, it's literally, you know, blessed by God as it were, with the very fertile land. It still has lots of farming. You know, Yosemite the most beautiful places, some of the most beautiful places in the world. Beach is great climate, It's you couldn't ask for a more perfect place. And yet, you know, it just shows the importance of how politics and government can infect everything. And it's a state that, you know, if you're rich, and while if California is still a lot of fun, you know, you'd go to your country clubs, you stay away from the from the skid rows, and you'll be okay. But for you know, for someone just starting out, there's a reason people keep leaving. It's too expensive, it's overregulated, it's a total mess. I don't mean to get too far off my Second Amendment focus here, you know, I am here on behalf of the Second Amendment foundation, So I don't mean to rant too much about my home state. But I can't get it myself. I can hear the frustration and it mirrors my own with where I currently live. And you're right. I mean, if you're an elitist, you know, you can go to Napa Valley with Gavenuwsom during COVID restrictions, you know. I mean, that's that's just the way it works in California, well and really in politics in general. But yeah, I will turn back to the Second Amendment foundation And you know for people that uh, because I asked this question a lot to a lot of my guests, especially politicians. You know, what's your favorite of the Bill of Rights? And so oftentimes I hear the Second Amendment. You know, this is such a big one for Americans just around the country. They love their firearms and they understand the importance of that. But for maybe maybe somebody that's a little bit more left leaning or something, can you break down the importance of the Second Amendment? Why specifically the anti federalist ensured that we had this protection. What was that about? Was that about bears? Was that about animals? Was that about hunting? You know? What was the. Original intent behind the Second Amendment? Now they just like target shooting. No, So you got to understand the historical context, which is that this was just a group of people who had just rebelled at great risk to themselves against the government, their government that they felt had become tyrannical against them. The American Revolution itself kicked off because the British went to seize arms at Lexington and Conquered and what happened was a bunch of militiamen said no, and they stood out in the field and the first battle didn't go well. But then right after that, at the rest of Lexington Concord, they a masked more and more militiamen who basically chased the British back to Boston and won that battle. And it was, you know, it was a huge black eye to the world's pre eminent superpower at the time. You know, people call that myth making, but it's actually true. The Lexington and Conquered story is true. It's not a founding myth as some more left leaning scholars like to call it, because it happened. And so when the founders went to draft this Constitution, once they agreed there should be a Bill rights, because there was some debate about that. After the anti federalists won that debate, they insisted that one of the rights that the federal government because it was limited to the federal government at the time, could not infringe on was the Second Amendment, And they expressly said it was because they were concerned about both tyranny or foreign invaders, and they felt that they didn't want to have a standing army and the best defense was an unarmed populace. And while that's changed a little bit today because obviously we do have a standing army, the founders eventually lost that argument. I guess in our modern world, it's still important that the people have the right to keep in bear arms, as we've seen in countries across the world. You know, when Russia invaded Ukraine, the first response was people who are armed. They were desperately trying to hand out ak forty seven civilians, but it would have been a hell of a lot easier for them if people had been armed and trained before that. When Hamas invaded Israel, you know, when there's just so many examples of people who felt they were safe until they suddenly weren't. And I'd urge people to remember that just because right now the idea of government tyranny seems far fetched, like we don't know what will come next in history, and this is a responsibility we've been handed, you know, generalationally to protect this right because even if hopefully in our lifetimes we never need it, and hopefully in our children's and grandchildren's lifetime, do you really know what's going to be happening in the next two hundred and fifty years. That's so, this is why the Second Amendment is just as important as the first. I put it on equal footing, and in certain times, in certain circumstances, I'd argue it's even more important than the First Amendment because ultimately, if the government does not have any fear of its people, then the other amendments mean nothing. So yeah, you're you're absolutely right. I mean, I'm sure tank Man, as he came to be known, wished that he would have had, you know, like a rocket, propel grenade or something like that, versus standing there with shopping bags as a tank approaches him. So, yeah, the Second Amendment can be more important than your right to free speech because we have to be able to defend that. And I love the explanation that you gave for the audience. I assume most of the people watching the show understand that. But I mean, it's good to have a history lesson and why we have this essential god given right spelled out in the Constitution in our Bill of Rights. What would be the. Difference between I say, you know, the Second Amendment Foundation and the NRAA or the Gun Owners of America. Well, first of all, there's a lot of great orgers out there. I'm members of most. I'm a member of most of them actually, but each org has its sort of different focus. The NRA is huge, not as huge as it used to be, but we're happy to see that they're recovering now under new leadership, and they handle everything from training certifications for range masters. They do do some litigation like we do, and they do all sorts of publications. What differentiates staff, I think Second Amendment Foundation is that we are very heavily focused on litigation. It's like over eighty percent of money that is donated goes directly to litigation. That's how we have over fifty active lawsuits, which I think, given our size, is kind of crazy. You know, we're not that big of an organization, but we do have dozens and dozens of lawsuits and even more amaricust briefs that I draft all the time, you know, all our salaries. By the way, you can pull up our tax forms. You can see we're not paying exorbitant salaries. I could double my salary tomorrow if I wanted to go work for some insurance defense room in downtown LA. I'm not doing that because I want to do something I love, and frankly, I'd probably kill myself if I were doing insurance defense. So yeah, suffice it to say, I feel pretty good about I feel pretty comfortable saying that when you donate to staff, the money is well spent and it goes towards litigation, which is our focus. I love that, you know, I work for a small startup that does ghost phones, some phones that don't spy on you, and that the president of the organization has a sign behind his desk, follow the money, and so I like. The ability to be able to see the Hey, this is a man who's principled. This is a man who, if he went out into the private sector, could make a whole lot more money. But he's a warrior, you know, And I'm not trying to overcome con. Definitely not a warrior, but I appreciate. But you are, in a legal sense, though, you are going to battle against Goliath, that is this anti Second Amendment. You know, government in California, throughout the states as well, even at times the federal government obviously under Trumpet's a little bit better, but during Biden's tenure Obama's, there were a lot of attacks on this fundamental right. Yeah, and we're still dealing with a lot of them, both at the federal and the state level. You know, it's crazy. Let me just give it a quick example here. You've probably heard a lot of controversy about the Save Act in recent months, right, you know, it's supposedly super racist and this and that to make people prove their citizens. One of the people talking about how bad the Save Act was is Chuck Schumer, Senator of New York. Chuck Schumer has never said anything about NYPD's pistol permits, which require everything the Save Act requires and much more. You need personal references from three people you've lived with, You need to do a training course, you need to pay a whole bunch of fees. You need to provide a birth certificate or passport or other proof of citizens. So literally everything the Save Act requires, but much worse is what New York requires for the Second Amendment and that sort of hypocrisy really just drives me, you know, because they treat it like a second class right. They apply what amounts to basically modern Jim Crow to the Second Amendment. You know, I mentioned the two thousand dollars carry permits in Santa Clara County. That's right out of the nineteenth century, you know. So this is the kind of stuff we're fighting constantly. Yeah, and unfortunately, I mean it's it's a war that we're never going to end the war. You know, these battles will continue, and ultimately we rest when we get to heaven, and so that's what you get to look forward to. Sorry, I don't mean. To be a Debbie downer or anything. Let me ask you about compromising, because you know, we. Were talking a little bit about the ener and part of. The reason why the NRA decreased in membership was because they started to compromise. And you're absolutely right. Under this new leadership, it's been really, really good. And I'm really happy to see that and be able to report that the NRA is back and they're doing what they actually are supposed to be doing. But why is it so essential that we as Americans never compromise? Whatsoever on the Second Amendment. Because it's a right, because it's been compromised so much already, I'd say, you know, I don't know if people have seen the cake meme where it explains the Second Amendment over the years, and you know, you start with this full cake, and then there's the nineteen thirties, gun control, in the nineteen sixties, gun control, in the nineteen nineties, Brady Act, and they keep just taking it away and taking it away and demanding, hey, why don't you compromise. But a true compromise. I'm not against the idea, but a true compromise requires both sides to give something up. So I'm not saying this would necessarily be a good deal, but it would be a different conversation if the Democrats came and said, hey, let's do universal background check, but in return, your carry permit is valid across the country. You know, I'm not saying that I'm not endorsing that deal necessarily, but at least it would be a deal. At least we'd be getting something back. What we've actually been doing is concessions. We've given stuff away because they make us feel guilty about it, or they say it's common sense and we get nothing in return, you know. So that's what I take issue with. I'm open to a discussion of a real deal where both sides get something they want, if the deal makes sense, if it can square with the Second Amendment. But I'm not open to just one sided concessions anymore. We've done enough of that. I would agree with that, and it'd be an interesting conversation I have. You know, I'm not sure. Where I will. I feel like because we've been on the. Receiving end of all of the trust issues. Yeah, we definitely have some trust issues. And for myself, you know, I would love to be able to go into like in the nineteen thirties, go into a hardware store and buy a Tommy gun. You know, I believe that's my right, and I'm going to be a responsible gun owner because I've been trained. I understand the risks of that and the dangers associated with firearms. But when you're talking about that, I mean, that's every firearm owner that I've ever met, that I've ever spoken with, they are probably the least concern for the government. Yeah, I mean, and that's the truth. You know. In one of our cases, we're dealing with as an example against California and other states. New Jersey they've all passed after they were forced to start issuing carry permits after Bruin. What they did next, besides making them expensive, was they banned carry basically everywhere. You know, you can't carry any parks in any restaurant that serves alcohol, even if you're not drinking you. You know, they even pass this crazy vampire rule where you couldn't carry a private business unless you got permission from the owner. So that's any place. The Supreme Court just struck that down in Woolford and we didn't a meek as brief and support, so that was defeated. But the crazy thing about all that is, in our case, we actually presented data from five different states showing that people with CCW permits almost never commit crimes, super rare, more rare than the police. I think the number I came up with with the data was that if they were their own country, they'd have a lower homicide rate than Switzerland. Wow, you know, people with carry, it'd be the safest country in the world. And oh and actually let me I apologize. I got to pause you here. We have that heard break hate doing this to guess, but hey, time waits for no man, but we're going to continue. Ladies and gentlemen. Hey, this is Caleb Collier with Church and State and I want to tell you about a great product, Liberty Cigars. I know for myself, there's nothing grander that's sitting around a campfire having a great theology discussion with a group of men while smoking a cigar. That's why I love Liberty Cigars. Every cigar has a story to tell. Not only are you going to be smoking the finest cigars on the market, but you're also going to get a history lesson with every single one of them from George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, the heroes of the American Revolution, General's Present, and it's throughout history. Tell you I absolutely love Liberty Cigars. I need you to go to Libertycigars dot com use that promo code Church and State. You'll get a discount and you'll also be helping to support Church and State with everything that we do. And we're back and thank you for staying with us. You're over at Church and State dot Media and I'm going to go right back to my guests, but real quick, let me plug one of our awesome affiliates, and I'm gonna go to Mark three seven dot com. Now, look, you know I work for them, I say that openly, but I love this company. Why because I don't like being spied on. And when we're talking about Second Amendment issues, well, maybe it'd be a good idea to have a phone, a ghost phone that's not collecting all of your data when you're talking about Hey, you know, I'm thinking about going and purchasing a cult forty five for example. So check out Mark three seven dot com. Get yourself a ghost phone, gives yourself a ghost laptop. It's what I use daily. The computer I'm on right now is a ghost laptop. So check them out Mark three seven dot com. Use that promo code Church and State. You're going to get a discount and you'll help support the show. And just one more time, hit the donate button for us keep us alive. Conversations like this are so important and I'm doing it five days a week, so please keep us on the air. All right, With that, let's go ahead and go back to our guest once again. The Second Amendment Foundation joined by Kostas Moros. He's the director of Legal Research and Education. At saf Second Amendment Foundation. And I apologize, sir, I cut you off, but please continue. No, No, I run my mouth too much. Sorry about that. I ramble. But I think what I was saying before the break was that we presented this data from several states showing how rare crime is among those with carry permits. And what's interesting is California conceded that point, as did New Jersey, as did why they had no rebuttal arguments, So they're essentially admitting in court that there is no safety risk from people with carry permits, and yet they're still passing these laws to restrict that. We can't. You know, I can't carry out when I take my daughter to a playground legally. Now, whether or not I follow that law, I'm not going to comment on because it's immoral. As a lawyer, I'll say yes, I do follow that law. But at the moment, right, yeah, the point is that they are passing these laws out of antipathy. It's not even a good faith belief in safety. They just hate gun owners, so they're passing these laws. You know, when Gavin Newsom announced this particular bill, he said, the Supreme Court announced a right to carry and he actually did this, so he's essentially saying like, I don't believe this is a right, and that's so frustrating to me. And you know, we're doing our best to push back on that. Yeah, and some amazing work that you guys are doing over there at the. Second Amendment Foundation. You know, they tend to use national tragedies and I would almost call them tragedy pimps, maybe for lack of a better word, but anytime that you have one of these individuals who typically are on SSRIs, which I really don't think we should be doing that, ladies and gentlemen. That's a subject for another show, but they do like a squa shooting, and these are tragic and obviously no one regardless of your political affiliation, is going to celebrate this. But these tragedy pimps, these politicians will take something like that and say this, this is why we need and you've. Brought it up before. It's always the same verbage, common sense gun loss. Yeah, and it's nonsense because you know, obviously, yes, we do need to stop these tragedies, but I just don't think gun control laws are what's going to do it. You know, we didn't used to have mass shootings in our history, even when machine guns were legal, at least not this common. And these can stop, and there's a lot of different ways to stop them. I'm not an expert on psychological treatment, so I'm not going to comment onsris, but one actual common sense way. Let me give you another example from my home state. We recently banned the sale of blocks. Why did we ban the sale of blocks because you could legally modify them with a switch, the legislator says. So we're fighting that in the courts right now. But that was prompted by a mass shooting and sacremento committed by a felon who had beaten his girlfriend's face into a pulp. He was sentenced to ten years in prison. They let him out after just three years because of COVID release policies. So this prohibited person illegally gets a glock, which he can't have because he's a federally prohibited person, puts a switch on it, again, already illegal on its own, And then now we can't buy glocks because they release someone from prison early. And that's just not every mass shooter, obviously, as someone who got released from prison early. But I'm just pointing out that there's a lot of different, actual common sense ways to stop these crimes without harassing, you know, law abiding, peaceable people. A lot of these mass shooters do have histories with police, and I'm not going to say that every time the cops come, you should lose your gun right. So I'm not claiming that, but clearly they're on the radar. This is something we can do a better job of filtering. I believe, you know, they talk about background checks, but it seems like a lot of these people get through their background checks, so maybe we need to take a look at that. Yeah, the inconsistency really bothers me. You know, if I were to say, let's just say, you know, I'm not a libertarian anymore, I'm a Republican, and I because I know that a number of the immigrants that are coming over to this country are criminals. There's a lot of sex trafficking, human trafficking that is going on. So my idea is we completely shut down the borders and we don't allow any immigration whatsoever in the country. Obviously, the left. Is going to lose their minds on this scenario, but they're doing the same thing to us with a Second Amendment. Yeah, I mean, even they'll pretend otherwise, but yes, what else do you call it When they're trying to tax it and restrict it and arbitrarily deny permits and ban carry everywhere. It's exactly the same thing they complain that Republicans used to do on abortion, for example. You know, I agree, I happen to agree with the Dobbs decision. I know it's not exactly in my lane. But let's assume for a second that they were right that abortion is this constitutional right. They're not right, but let's assume it was. They hated all the methods that Red States did to try and stem the abortion, but they're doing much worse when it comes to the Second Amendment. So I think what Democrats need to admit to themselves, maybe not all of them, but a lot of them, is they don't want the Second Amendment to exist, but unfortunately for them, they don't have the votes to amend it. So stop trying to kill it by a thousand cuts. If you think you can convince America to repeal the Second Amendment, then do that. But other than that, you should leave people alone. I think it seems a very libertarian principle right there, leave people alone. Right if you don't like firearms, nobody's dictating this. We don't have laws in this country where you have to have a firearm in your household. There are countries in the world that do something like that, but we don't do that here in the United States. If you don't want a firearm, don't use one, don't have one in your home. You can go your entire life without ever touching a firearm. But for those of. Us who like them, who like gun culture, hey leave us alone. Yeah. And I'm empathetic by the way. I underst stand people say, well, I want to feel safe at a grocery store, in a movie theater. I want my kids to be safe in school. I'm not saying that that's not a valid concern. It's disgusting that you even have to have that thought that your kid might be killed by a lunatic with a gun in a school. That's not acceptable as a society and we do need to fix that. And just my point is that, you know, when a drunk driver wipes out a family, we don't ban alcohol. You know, we deal with it in different ways, and we should come up with creative solutions to defeat the mass shooting phenomenon in this modern era, but that one of those solutions can't be the destruction of a constitutional rate. So I would agree. And hey, this country did attempt to ban alcohol one time. It didn't work, so well, didn't know it didn't. It became more popular than ever, and it's created a fifty years or more of the mob because of it. Once again, government, maybe you stay in your lane, your very limited lane as per the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Let's talk about some up and coming, you know, litigation that you're involved in. What are some really important cases that my audience, regardless of where they live, can help support you, guys, reach out to you, The representatives, support you guys monetarily. There's got to be a lot more that we can be doing as advocates for the Second Amendment, right right, So. Some of them I've already talked about. The biggest, most famous one is the one that's going to be in the Supreme Court that's coming turn on assault weapons bans. If we win that case, and I expect we will, then you know, all assault weapons bans nationally are going to be defeated. And people like me in California, you'll be able to buy standard AAR fifteens again people like you and Washington. So that's going to be the biggest one. But we're also litigating in several states sensitive places cases where they try to ban carry everywhere. We're dealing, like I said, with the California excise tax, which we expect other states will copy, so that's we're trying to get ahead of that. And we're suing over the National Firearms Act because although they eliminated the tax on suppressors and SBRs, I wouldn't know anything about that in California. But although they because I can't get it even if I register, but they still require for those of you in free straight free states registration even though the tax is zero, and we're suing to stop that in several cases across the country. So we're hoping to win those. There's too many to list, you know, we're involved in over fifty cases, so I'm going to I'd run over time if I tried to describe all of them. But if you go to saf dot org you can become a member. It's just twenty five dollars per year, I think, or and if you want donate on top of that, and you can become and by the way, membership carries other benefits. For example, we just want a case on carrying post offices because the government bans carry in post offices. But because of Trump FICASA, the Supreme Court has said, you have to limit relief no more nationwide injunctions. You have to limit relief to the parties in the case. So the relief on that is limited to members of Second Amendment Foundation or Firearms Policy Coalition. So there's one benefit. Immediately, pay twenty five dollars and you can carry in post offices as a staff member because that ruling would now apply to you. So there's one tangible, immediate benefit. But yeah, please support our work. Without it, we wouldn't be able to do these cases. You know, I absolutely love it. Twenty five bucks. That's nothing, ladies and gentlemen. Twenty five dollars annually and you're carrying in a post office. Now, hey, I mean, I'm a former postal employee. You know I don't share that often, but yeah, I used to work for the post office. You know, that's an area where people used to joke about people going postal. So maybe it's a good idea to be able to carry a firearm there. I wanted to ask you this as well, suppressors, because you know, you brought this up, and I don't know why so many people have this idea in their heads that suppressors are just this this terrible production that allows people to you know, shoot people without being heard. You know, it's like the movies like this kind of sound. It's like, that's not what it actually sounds like. Ladies and gentlemen, and especially everybody who shoots nos you wear hearing protection. And why are suppressors like this this boogieman in the US? Well, you just said it's because of Hollywood. That's that's the exact reason why. You know, if my only knowledge of suppressors was that cool scene in John Wick two where they're just shooting at each other in the subway and it's just like Pepe pew, I'd probably want them banned too. I'd be like, that's crazy. We'll never be able to know where the all these assassins are and they're all killing each other. But you know, ironically, a couple of weeks ago, I was in Vegas at an event at Staccato, and I got to shoot a suppressed handgun for the first time. And let me tell you, although it's very cool and it does quiet down a bit, it's still loud. You are not missing that. You know. It's just quiet enough that you can arguably take off your hearing protection and be okay. But it's not that quiet like it's still if you're shooting in a building, for example, people will hear it. And look, if there's concerns that certain guns like maybe Suppress twenty two can get pretty quiet, well we can have a discussion of you know, maybe it's limited to certain calibers, but what the what the anti gunners want is total suppressor bands. You know, in the Senate they're talking about, oh, when we're back in power, we're going to put a five thousand dollars tax on suppressors because you guys eliminated it. You know, it's ridiculous, and it does come down to just Hollywood. I mean, even in Europe, where a lot of these countries have strict gun laws, suppressors are sold over the counter. In some countries they just without background checks because it's just, you know, something they consider polite to do. A few countries are like that. There, So it's something that needs to go away. And the federal government, by the way, in our case, admitted recently that there's millions and millions of registered suppressors now and they're almost never used in crime. I don't think they could cite an example of one being used in a violent crime. So it's just a fake concern inspired by Hollywood. You're absolutely right, because anybody concealed carrying is not carrying a suppressor. Guys, you know we're not. Trying to bring get this long tube on our barrel. No, it's not going to happen. So you use it with target shooting so that, yeah, you're you're lessening the effect of that that loud report from firearms on your ear drums. And as a former marine, you know, I can tell you I probably have some hearing loss because I wasn't always Johnny on the spot with putting the hearing protection on. So, yeah, this is a tool. And guys, the suppressor is not going to hurt you. I mean, I suppose you could use it as a blunt instrument if you wanted to. I don't know any gun owners of the wood, but it's not gonna hurt you. Guys, it's all so. Critical for home defense. By the way, you know, if you have a pistol caliber carbine for example, suppressor is a great idea because you know, if someone does break into your house, god forbid, in the middle of the night and you fire off a gun, it's gonna disorient you. Well, hopefully you hit them, but you're gonna be disoriented. So if you missed that first shot, it might get a little dicey. And that's where suppressors are usedue. By the way, we're fighting California's suppressor band. Well, I'm sorry, that's my old firm. I'm crossing dots here, but a case called Sanchez by Vonta is dealing with that in California. Yeah, well, I gotta tell you, I gotta, I gotta, I'm gonna I'm going to finish. The rest of this interview being a bitter cleaner. I'm just gonna I'm just going to hold this and kind of stroke it because I love this thing. But I want to go back to your website. We're kind of winding down on the episode, and let's talk about saf dot org. Why people should go to the website. I want people to join at twenty five dollars annually. That is a cheap price. Ladies and gentlemen to have some of the best lawyers fighting for your Second Amendment rights. But I go to you, why should people go to the website? Oh, the website's nice and simple, It's easy to remember saf dot org and you can find out, you know, get all besides becoming a member donating. You can also get all our news there. You know, every time we have a press a press release like we did today because we filed a brief in Maryland, you can see it in the news section and it'll be posted there, and you can keep track of all our work. You can also see our team there. I think we post our tax information there so you can see our finances, our board of trustees. It's all there. You can learn all about us. So I think our website is nice, clean and simple. I encourage everyone to check it out. And we also are all active on social media. You know, you can follow saff on social media there I am, and you can follow my personal account on Twitter. I'm very active there as well. Well. Excellent. Well, I got to tell you I've so appreciated your time and I especially appreciate your work. Here as well. It's essential as Americans that we defend this God given, precious right that's that's put in our in our Bill of Rights. So hats off to you for the work that you're doing. I'm gonna encourage the audience once again to go to saf dot org and sign up become a member. But we are we're out of time, so I'm gonna go ahead and let you go. If you hold on one more minute. Post production to Sarah, goodbyes, I'd appreciate it, but again, thank you for joining us on Church and State. Thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it absolutely. All Right, ladies and gentlemen, there you go. Look they're not that scary. Okay, Yes am I marine? Yes have I been trained? Of course I have. But this thing's not going to go off. I can hold it in my hand. And this thing is what keeps our liberties safe. So please join SAFT dot org, become a member of it, and continue to fight for. The Second Amendment. Church and State is brought to you in part by. Colonial Ize Spokane, Independent Agents, Finders Insurance, and Mark three seven dot Com. I'm Caleb Callier. I was born for a storm welcome to the fire. 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