Herbal Medicine for Preppers: Boneset

[00:00:00] Hey y'all, welcome to this week's show. Today we're going to talk about really one of the most interesting, I guess, families of plants. This is one. We have some, okay, so there's a European version and that's what I'm going to talk about specifically today. Now it was brought over as medicine by so many immigrants that you're probably going to find it growing wild just about anywhere in the United States except for maybe a high desert but really it could be cultivated even there.

[00:00:29] It's a weedy plant and it's called Boneset, closely related to some of our native North American plants such as Joe Pieweed and Wild Quinine. This is, let's see, there's the Eupatorium family and what's the one that's so close to it? Epilobium. They all used to be, I think it's Epilobium. I'll, you know, I'll double check that at some point but you don't need to know that for the purposes of this show.

[00:00:59] These are basically weeds, okay? They all used to be in the same family and there's a segment of botany called taxonomy and what they do is they like to reclassify the names of things.

[00:01:18] Now they use a lot of genetic information and so in the last, I'll say 20 to 30 years, a lot of the plants that people have been referring to as one family of plants for like 500 years have been reclassified into new families and renamed. You know, it doesn't really matter for our purposes. What matters for our purposes is these plants are fantastic for fevers.

[00:01:44] The name Boneset and it's a real popular herb. I mean, you know, herbalists have used it for literally hundreds if not thousands of years and most herbalists today still use it. It's one of our go-to herbs. But the name of it kind of is a little confusing. You would think Boneset would have something to do with broken bones. No.

[00:02:09] Simply put, it's a strongly bitter herb that is particularly good at reducing fevers. Boneset has other properties and we'll get into those in just a minute, but it doesn't set bones or heal broken bones. The name Boneset comes from an old term for high fevers, which were called break bone fevers. If you've ever had a really high bad fever and you get those awful aches like bone aches, that's what it refers to.

[00:02:35] So such fevers are experienced by most people, I think in just real bad flus, particularly nasty infections, and they feel like they're breaking your bones. So that's where it comes from. Now Boneset is a eupatorium. It is eupatorium perfoliatum. Other names include ague weed. Ague is an old name for fever. Fever wart or sweating plant.

[00:03:00] This is one that helps break a fever and you know when your fever breaks, you sweat profusely. So that's where it gets that name. All of those terms, of course, refer to its ability to break a fever. And we call that in herbal medicine febrifuge or diaphoretic. So remember, if I slip up and I don't define the word when I say it, febrifuge and diaphoretic both mean helps break a fever.

[00:03:26] Sofetch herbs, they resolve a fever usually either by raising the body temperature slightly or inducing sweating or both. And raising a fever may seem counterintuitive in our era when we think, you know, the doctor's going to say take two Tylenol to reduce the fever.

[00:03:44] But the fever is a way of, the fever is one of the body's ways of fighting an infection. Breaking a fever or helping bring a fever to a peak aids in the immune response. We make a big mistake, well, especially Tylenol. Tylenol is horrible for the liver. I told you many times, well, I think I have, I told you many podcasts, whether it's this particular one or my herbal medicine podcast, Southern Appalachian Herbs podcast.

[00:04:13] When I worked at a pharmacy, I worked at a pharmacy in my late teens or early twenties and got to know the pharmacist real well, got along great with the pharmacist. Pharmacists are usually really cool guys actually, but they're real laid back and interested in a lot of the same kind of things as far as the constituents and properties of herbs and medications and how they work with the body and all that. And most of them are actually musicians as well.

[00:04:39] Most of them have some really interesting political ideals, ideologies, considering some of the ones I knew. I think, I'm going to say 75% of them were very conservative and the one or two that were liberal were really not the kind of liberals we think of today. You know, the fat purple haired women screaming at everybody.

[00:05:10] They were just like, you know, old hippies and into a lot of conspiracy theories. And, you know, you find a lot more common ground than you would with, you know, an AOC or somebody like we would think of today. But yeah, I got along great with them. And one of the, one of them was a good friend of mine. He was a mandolin player. And so we got, you know, going great. He always said you can do one of two things.

[00:05:37] If you want to have a, not die of liver failure, you can either drink alcohol or you can take Tylenol, but you can't do both. And he said, honestly, Tylenol is much worse for the liver than except the heaviest binge drinking. So if you're a heavy drinker, never take alcohol. If you're a, never take Tylenol. If you're a moderate drinker, avoid Tylenol at all costs.

[00:06:06] And if you don't drink at all, I'd still avoid Tylenol. It's actually banned in many European countries. It's made from petrochemicals. It's a byproduct of oil essentially. And it is really, really hard on the liver. Probably more liver disease is caused by acetaminophen than is caused by alcohol. But to combo together is just deadly. So be real careful about that.

[00:06:33] And, you know, most, actually all over the counter cold medicines use Tylenol as opposed to Aspirin, which doesn't bother the liver at all. It's actually has anti-inflammatory properties that can actually help the liver a little bit. I don't know why. I don't know why when you're sick, the over-the-counter drug industry wants you to damage your liver at the same time. The only one I've found is actually a generic brand of Alka-Seltzer Cold Plus.

[00:07:03] And, you know, not everything is good for you, but it is a cold medication that doesn't include Tylenol. So it's actually just the generic version. And you can find that generic version as a store brand in most grocery stores and pharmacies. And, you know, just look at the back of the package and it will say, you know, salicin or salicylic acid or aspirin as opposed to Tylenol or acetaminophen. It doesn't make any sense to me why that is, but it is what it is.

[00:07:34] So usually when the fever breaks, you sweat. And not only does that help kill, the high temperature helps kill or stop the replication of the virus, but the sweating helps your body release toxins and it cools the body.

[00:07:50] And so bringing on the febri-fuge or diaphoretic effect rather than suppressing the fever and actually prolonging the illness makes a lot more sense in some cases. Now, obviously, small children can spike a fever really quick and it can be really dangerous. Older, frail, very sick people, a high fever can be very dangerous.

[00:08:17] So you got to weigh that out and use some common sense. There are, and usually after that, you just fall into a deep sleep. And when you wake up, you feel a whole lot better. You know, when that fever breaks and you sleep, you just feel like, wow, I feel so much better afterwards. And that's because that your lymph purges, you sweat out a lot of toxins, and it does really help your body fight the virus. So many, many herbs and home remedies are used to break a fever.

[00:08:47] It could be hot yarrow tea, hot baths with ginger. Yeah, ginger in your bath water. You know how ginger is hot on the tongue? Well, it actually increases the body temperature. Old-fashioned mustard plasters where they would take dry mustard and make a paste out of it, spread it on your chest, and put usually brown paper and some fat, lard or something, to kind of seal it in. And that mustard also, just like ginger, will increase the body temperature, but so does that, the fat and the covering the skin.

[00:09:16] And, you know, obviously you wrap up in a warm blanket and it will help break the fever. Goose fat used to be used a lot in England especially. But even just drinking a hot beverage, hot tea, going to bed, laying under heavy blankets. And sleeping under blankets is especially effective if you have the windows open and are breathing cool, fresh air. That combination really helps the immune system quite a bit, keeping the head cooler, which, you know,

[00:09:45] keeping your head cool will help protect your brain in a high fever. You know, if someone has a really high fever, you get them in cold water and ice as quickly as you can. You got to protect the brain from that, the high temperature. So it's a good combination. So, bone set, absolutely very important, useful herb. It is native to North America, but most places you're going to see it where it was planted in somebody's herb garden and it got out.

[00:10:11] Native American tribes, at least in the eastern half of North America, use it a lot. But it's very widespread. Other members of the Eupatorium family have been used in European herbalism and often called agrimonies. But agrimony, we discussed a few weeks ago, different plant. But, D.S. Corides, going back over 2,000 years, said that Eupatorium is an herb like a shrub, placing out one stem, thin and woody.

[00:10:42] And, and he goes on to describe it, it's easier these days. If you just Google bone set, Eupatorium family, and you can see, you'll start spotting these plants everywhere. They're very, very weedy. And, if you were to plant them, which people used to do, they are going to get out and you're going to have them forever. Okay? So, plant once, have them forever. But you're probably actually growing all around you. He said, this is an interesting use.

[00:11:09] He said that the leaves, pounded fine, and applied with swine's grease or lard, help difficult scars and ulcers. The seed of the herb, taken as a drink with wine, helps dysentery and serpent bites. And, at one point he said it was called an artemisia. So, obviously these plants have been reclassified many times. Artemisia is very different. That's your wormwood, your mugwort, sweet Annie. Also very good for viruses though.

[00:11:37] So, people probably were using them interchangeably. Okay, so Cloverleaf Farm, Herbal Encyclopedia. This is a really interesting publication. It's online. If you ever want to just read some interesting history about herbs, Cloverleaf Farm. It says, the Latin name Eupatorium is derived from Eupator, a first century king of Pontus, famed for his herbal skills. And, the kings of Pontus were actually great herbalists.

[00:12:06] It's from then that we get mithidrate, the old bitters formula from King Mithrodides, who was also a king of Pontus. Pontus, I guess, P-O-N-T-U-S. But, according to Pliny the Older, Eupator was the first to use plant of this genus for liver complaints. It is bitter. And, that helps the liver, you know. It stimulates bile and helps cleanse and purge the liver. It says,

[00:13:10] The Miskwakis, I'm not familiar with that tribe. M-E-S-Q-U-A-K-I-E-S. Use the root to cure snake bite. One of their doctors named Mackintosh used the leaf and flower to expel worms. That's interesting. Mackintosh, a Scottish name supposedly in a Native American tribe. Hey, who knows, right? The Iroquois, Mohegan, Menominee, Delaware, and Cherokee have all used boneset to treat colds and fevers.

[00:13:40] The Alabama relieves stomach ache with boneset tea. It was also used by several tribes, including the Cherokee's alaxative. Boneset was named in all early American books on medicinal plants, including Hands House Surgeon and Physician of 1820. During the 19th century, very few homes did not have the herbs hung from rafters for the use of the onset of chills and fevers. And that's true. And that's why it's so widespread. People either planted intentionally or they wild harvested, hung it up to dry,

[00:14:09] and the seeds were spread by the wind and birds and all kinds of stuff like that. Boneset was used particularly in the 18th and 19th century, not only by Native Americans and pioneers, but also by Civil War troops. Before the coming of aspirin, boneset was one of the remedies to treat aches and fevers that accompanied various ailments. Boneset, though, was unknown during the classic age of German and British herbalism. Seemingly. I'm not going to say it was unknown, but it wasn't written about a lot.

[00:14:38] It may have just been more of a home remedy. By Miss Greaves' time, it was not listed in the British Pharmacopoeia, so this is the 1930s. But she gave a description of it in a modern herbal. She wrote, Boneset was a favorite of the North American Indians, so-called by a name that is equivalent to ague weed, or fever weed, essentially, and has always been a popular remedy in the United States. Probably no plant in American domestic practice having more extensive and frequent use.

[00:15:05] It is also in use to some extent in regular practice, being official in the United States Pharmacopoeia. So the Pharmacopoeia of at least 1930s was still recommending Boneset as an herb. Yeah, your doctor used to prescribe you herbal medicine, and your pharmacist used to dispense it. It wasn't that long ago. It was actually probably when your grandparents were alive. But at her time, 1930s, was not included in the British Pharmacopoeia.

[00:15:31] Medicinal action is used as stimulant febri-fusion laxative. It acts slowly and persistently, and its greatest power is manifested upon the stomach, liver, bowels, and uterus. It is regarded as a mild tonic in moderate doses. It would probably be an appetite stimulator, help with digestion, also diaphoretic, fever-breaking. More especially when taken as a warm infusion, in which form it is used in attacks of muscular rheumatism and general cold.

[00:15:56] In large doses, it's a medic-impurgative, meaning it would make you throw up and have diarrhea. So you don't want to have it in a very large dose. Many of the earlier works allude to this species as diuretic, and therefore it was used in dropsy. But this is an error. This property being possessed by the Euphatorium purpureum, the purple flowered boneset or gravel root.

[00:16:20] Yes, another member of the boneset family, that one has purple flowers, much like the Joe Pieweed. But the two plants, one shorter than the other, and they do look a little different. You know what? You're going to have to look them up. It's just really too hard to describe this verbally. But yes, gravel root we'll discuss another day. Very useful, very good for kidney and bladder stones. I believe it's still in the same family, Euphatorium purpureum. So we'll get into that another day.

[00:16:49] But the regular bone set has been esteemed as a popular febri-fuge, especially in intermittent fever, and has been employed in typhoid and yellow fever, largely used by the Negroes in the southern United States as a remedy in all cases of fever. She's English. That's the way they wrote. But apparently it was a folk remedy, especially among southern black folks. So I've known a lot of black herbalists. They've never really mentioned it, but I don't know. I don't know.

[00:17:18] It was apparently in the 1930s or at least something she read led her to believe that. As a mild tonic, it is useful in dyspepsia and general debility and particularly serviceable in indigestion of old people. And she recommended infusion of one ounce of the dried herb to a pint of boiling water given in wine glass full doses, hot or cold. Better for fevers when given hot to induce perspiration. Yarrow is much the same way. Yarrow should be taken hot if you want to break a fever.

[00:17:48] That's probably why it fell out of use in European herbal medicine was because yarrow was so very popular and much more written of. But turning to the herbal traditions of the southern United States, we get to the southern fields of forests in the 1860s. Let's see. They use both boneset and... yeah. Thorowart... oh, that's another name. Thorowart boneset. That's another name for boneset.

[00:18:17] And again, that's Hupatorium perfoliatum. A warm infusion of this plant is emetic means it makes you throw up. Suderific, that means induces sleep. And diaphoretic, it relieves excess fluids. But Ms. Greaves said that's more of the purpureum, so who knows. Employed cold as a tonic in febri-fuge, a hot decoction may be given in the hot stage of fever without exciting the system. Small quantities of cold infusion given repeatedly will, it is said, purge and are described in constipation.

[00:18:47] The leaves and flowers and powder also purge in larger doses, 10 to 20 grams. The discharge of bile was promoted by it and it has been prescribed with advantage in rheumatism, typhoid, pneumonia, catarrhea, that's congestion, dropsy, that's fluid retention, and influenza, which prevailed in the north and which was prescribed by Dr. Rush. Dr. Rush was a famous early American doctor and he used it with great success in the yellow fever epidemic of 1798.

[00:19:16] Benjamin Rush, you can almost call him the father of medicine in America. He was one of our signers of the Declaration of Independence. So, yeah, really much used. Oh, this is where Ms. Greaves got her information. She said that it was used by Negroes in South America, you know, black folk.

[00:19:37] And Southern Fields of Forest, 1865 said this plant is extensively employed among the Negroes in the plantations of South Carolina as a tonic and diaphoretic in colds and fevers. I don't know. Maybe that was lost because like I said, I haven't really heard it used a lot in modern, by modern black herbalists. But, yeah, it's interesting. It's more used by Appalachian and New England herbalists.

[00:20:07] Given hot, it acts as diuretic, cold as a tonic. Thorough word or bone set used hot in the cold stages of malarial fever. Or, you know, it could be that the black herbalists have known just take it for granted if it's that much of their folk tradition. Much as did the folks in Europe, just kind of take it for granted and talk more about yarrow. But, I don't know why. But anyway, yeah, probably could be.

[00:20:29] Next time I'm down in Charleston, there's some really great Gullah Geechee herbalists and I'll talk with them about it. Of course, they're coastal and it's not necessarily a beachside plant. May have to wait till I can get back over to Georgia. Used to know some really great ones down in Catawba County, you know, around Hickory-Morganton area. Well, you probably don't know if you're not from North Carolina. But there's a really, there was a great black community down there.

[00:20:59] Etta Baker, the great blues guitarist, was one of my teachers. So, you know, I used to hang around there a lot. And they're very, you know, rural country folk, much like mountain folk and a lot of the same traditions. So maybe, yeah, if I can get down to Morganton, maybe I can find an herbalist who can let me know about that.

[00:21:22] So, he says it has been used since the beginning of the war and has been found to be the very best of our indigenous anti-periodics as a substitute for quinine. Now, this point he's referring to anti-periodics, not as a menstrual period, but as the fevers caused by malaria that come on in regular intervals. So they were called periodic fevers.

[00:21:45] As a substitute for quinine, it is thought to be superior in this respect to either poplar bark, and that's tulip poplar, or willow, or even dogwood, which are great substitutes for quinine. The tulip poplar, or dogwood especially, the willow has aspirin properties. It is also an excellent stimulating diaphoretic and low fevers. The Indian doctors make a pill of it to act upon the liver, which they call the hepatic pill.

[00:22:13] And they do that by boiling thoroughwort leaves until their strength is extracted, and then strain the decoction, boiling it until it becomes thick. An extract is made, in other words, and it is rolled in starch to form pills. And they're given that way. Yeah, alright, let's go on to see if I can get a little more modern here. He gives a lot of different formulas, combining it with blackberry leaves and different things for different stomach conditions.

[00:22:43] Using cottonwood, the buds of the cottonwood, they're very much like willow and aspirin properties. Combined with syncophoil or potentilla, good liver tonic, I can definitely see that. 1898, King's American Medical Dispensatory says, This well-known plant growing in low woods at the borders of swamps and streams throughout the United States, flowering in August and September. The tops and leaves are the parts used.

[00:23:11] And they recommend a teetcher or a tea, infusion or extract, however you want to call it. Actions, medicinal uses and dosage. This is a very valuable medical agent. The cold infusion or extract is tonic and apparent. The warm infusion is diaphoretic and emetic. As a tonic, it is useful in remitted, intermittent, and typhoid fevers, dyspepsia, and general debility.

[00:23:36] And combined with camphor and potassium, the powdered leaves have been serviceable in some forms of cutaneous disease that will be used topically for skin conditions. An intermittent fever, a strong infusion, as hot as can be comfortably swallowed, is administered for the purpose of vomiting freely. This is, and also, you know, if you throw up, it often helps break a fever.

[00:24:02] So that's, especially the Thompsonian School of Herbal Medicine, they use demetics or, you know, herbs that would make you vomit as a way to help break a fever as well. So, taken hot, apparently it can help you throw up and has a diaphoretic quality. So that's why it was so popular for that cause. Says, this is also attended with profuse diaphoresis and sooner or later by the evacuation of the bowel.

[00:24:29] So, it's, you know, if you have food poisoning or something that's making you sick that you've eaten, again, that would be very useful. Let's see. The, during the intermission, the cold infusion or extract is given every hour as a tonic and anti-periodic or febri-fuge, essentially. It is not well adapted to ordinary cases of ague, which may be cured better with quinine, but it's particularly useful in irregular cases, which that drug does not seem to reach.

[00:24:56] The chill and succeeding fever is slight, followed by perspiration. And let's see, anything we haven't covered here. We got the diaphoretic properties. We have the febrile, the fever issues, the catarrows. Yep, yep, yep. Apparently it was used for bone pain caused by syphilis. Good for pneumonia, especially if an emetic is indicated.

[00:25:28] Good for digestion, irritable cough. Weakened stomach caused by heavy alcoholism, severe alcoholism. It was found useful in that, kind of helps tonify the stomach. Specific indication and use.

[00:25:49] Use during fevers, pain in the chest, help with urination, deep-seated aching pains in the muscles. Alright, let's get up to modern use. Now, remember I studied under the Southwestern School of Botanical Herbalism with the herbalist Michael Moore, not the fat communist Michael Moore. Even though the herbalist Michael Moore was somewhat of a fat communist. He was quite the expert in herbal medicine.

[00:26:21] Real irascible character, you might say. But he said that it should be used for head cold, moist with fever, aches, acute dry bronchitis with muscular weakness, influenza with malaise and ache, acute bronchial pneumonia with dyspepsia. I can't pronounce that word. D-Y-S-P-N-E-A. And it has to do with acute bronchial pneumonia. And to stimulate innate immunity.

[00:26:49] Now, Plants for a Future says, of Boneset, they use the English term Thorowart. Thorowart is one of the most popular domestic medicines in North America where it was used in the treatment of influenza, colds, acute bronchitis, catara and skin diseases. It has been shown to stimulate resistance to viral and bacterial infections. And reduces fevers by encouraging sweating. The plant, however, should be used with some caution since large doses are laxative and emetic.

[00:27:16] And the plant might contain potentially liver-harming alkaloids. The leaves and flowering stems are antispasmodic, a chologog, diaphoretic, emetic, febri-fuge, laxative, purgative, stimulant and vasodilator. A hot infusion of the dry leaves and flowers is used as a very effective treatment to bring relief to symptoms of common cold and other similar feverishness. It loosens phlegm and promotes its removal through coughing.

[00:27:45] The herb is practically unequaled in its effectiveness against colds. It is also used in the treatment of rheumatic illness, skin conditions and worms. The leaves and flowering stems are harvested in the summer before the buds open and are dried for later use. A homeopathic remedy is made from the fresh plant when harvested and first comes into flower and is used in the treatment of illnesses such as flus and fevers. So, same way there.

[00:28:13] Homeopathic remedies are very complex and we're not going to get into that. I think we'll wrap it up here. But, it is interesting to note that the National Center for Homeopathy lists many, many uses for their concoction and say that it is much safer than over-the-counter NSAIDs, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. Did I get that right?

[00:28:43] Probably got it out of order. But anyway, NSAIDs, yes. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs including Tylenol. In fact, Tylenol is the, well, officially it's the second leading cause of liver disease in the world. Now you may think, what's the leading cause? When you might say, well, it's probably alcohol. Well, only to a point. Only to a point. There are many industrial solvents that can be absorbed through the skin.

[00:29:07] There are many industrial solvents and such and other chemicals that get into our water and in our air. So, when you consider that those are generally because alcohol is also a solvent. And most people do have a drink or two and they go in, their doctors are going to say, well, you have liver disease. You know, you're drinking too much. Well, it may actually be solvents that you're absorbing through your skin.

[00:29:35] It may be genetic fatty liver disorder, liver disease disorder. It may be diet or environmental toxins induced fatty liver.

[00:29:45] So, when you consider that probably, I don't know, many, many, many cases of liver disease and inflamed liver and congested liver, fatty liver and all that are attributed to alcohol that are probably due to the addition of alcohol with many environmental toxins and factors or even genetics. When you say Tylenol or acetaminophen, I should say Tylenol is a name brand, but acetaminophen is the second leading cause.

[00:30:15] If you were to take, separate out all those other environmental factors, it could be and probably is the leading cause of liver disease. Especially considering that most doctors don't sit and no longer say to take two aspirin, call me in the morning. They say to take two Tylenol because they are so worried the aspirin is going to upset your stomach. Pretty ridiculous in my opinion. I take aspirin frequently, so they would harm me a bit. But I don't take Tylenol.

[00:30:44] But when you consider that even those that are diagnosed with alcohol caused liver disease probably have been taking a lot of Tylenol on a regular basis too, whether on its own or through cold medicines or through prescription medicines. Most of your prescription pain medicines will combine an opiate with Tylenol.

[00:31:04] Tylenol is a huge factor or acetaminophen is a huge factor in probably most liver disorders. You know, probably most. So try to avoid acetaminophen. I think aspirin is safer, but I don't have ulcers or any kind of stomach issues like that. But there are, you know, many good herbs.

[00:31:29] And really the willow bark and masterwort and violets and other ways we can get salicin generally do not have the stomach upset issues of aspirin. And, you know, doctors also are worried that aspirin can increase blood pressure because it thins the blood. Or they may be worried you might be on a blood thinner. Coumadin or whatever that could thin your blood.

[00:31:55] But there are various reasons that they think that Tylenol or acetaminophen is safer. The pharmacists I've known and the herbalists I've known and the natural health practitioners I've known definitely do not agree. Definitely do not agree. And in fact, acetaminophen is banned in many countries.

[00:32:17] And why it's not banned in the United States probably has more to do with lobbying Congress and the FDA than it has to do with any legitimate medical research. So that's my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt. Take it for what it is. Y'all have a great week and I will talk to you next time. The information in this podcast is not intended to diagnose or treat any disease or condition. Nothing I say or write has been evaluated or approved by the FDA.

[00:32:46] I'm not a doctor. The U.S. government does not recognize the practice of herbal medicine and there is no governing body regulating herbalists. Therefore, I'm really just a guy who studies herbs. I'm not offering any advice. I won't even claim that anything I write or say is accurate or true. I can tell you what herbs have been traditionally used for. I can tell you my own experience and if I believe in herbs helped me. I cannot nor would I tell you to do the same. If you use an herb anyone recommends, you are treating yourself.

[00:33:14] You take full responsibility for your health. Humans are individuals and no two are identical. What works for me may not work for you. You may have an allergy, a sensitivity, an underlying condition that no one else even shares and you don't even know about. Be careful with your health. By continuing to listen to my podcast or read my blog, you agree to be responsible for yourself, do your own research, make your own choices and not to blame me for anything ever. We will be right back. Thank you. Amen. Amen. Amen.