Matter of Facts: Specialty Guns are Dumb

Welcome back to the Matter of Facts podcast on the Prepper Broadcasting Network. We talk prepping, guns, politics every week on iTunes, Ditcher, and Spotify. Go check out our content at mwefpodcast dot com. On Facebook or Instagram. You can support us be a Patreon or by checking out our affiliate partners. I'm your host, Phil Raveley Andrew Nicker on the other side of the mic, and here's your show. Welcome back to the Matter of Facts Podcast. I'm Philip, that's Nick. We're doing the admin work right freaking now, before Nick can get me diverted off topic, before any of the freaking hoodlobs in the chap manach to get me off topic, I am muting all of y'all and we're gonna do admin work right now. That's that's fair. That's fair. It was what an hour and fifteen minutes last time. I tried really hard. Last time, I was so freaking mad. I gotta do it once in a while. If you would like to promote bad decision by becoming a patron, that link is in the show description. You can help the patrons who are listening right now give me enough crap to make me forget to do the admin work and acknowledge their very existence and contributes to the show. Also opportune moment to call out one of the patrons. In particular, there's one in the chat who took it upon himself to do something very very cool and special for us in honor of our tenth anniversary, which is coming up in August. And I'm locking spoiler's prizing though the patrons already know, but for the rest of you listeners, just there's something coming that's cool. And I owe it to Stewart proud text and took it by himself to do some really nice for the show, and I am definitely appreciative. I actually owe him a phone call, text something to discuss some business around that. Yes, but it's gonna have to wait until I'm might at work or working my other job, or working my other job or doing something. Yeah. Damn, Adulting always gets in the way of doing the other stuff. Bruh. Dumbest thing any us ever decide to do was grow up and be adults. I don't know what on earth we were thinking about. You know, the folks that know that didn't grow up to be adults, they're not doing so hot. I mean, they're either dead or living home mom and Dad. So I guess by extension we picked the lesser of two evils. We did, We did pick the lesser of two evils. Yeah, anyway, if you don't want to come up a patron, but you don't want to help the show by merch for the vibes from the Southern Gals at link is also in the show description. One of these days we're gonna to contribute some time to revising the shirt. The shared ideas a little bit, because we got some good ideas. Turns out, cigars and bourbon and tom Foolery is a good melting pot for thinking of things. Yes, and if you'd like to prevent war crimes, you can go to Disaster Coffee use code MOF because we don't do subscriptions anymore. Yeah, but code mof will get you the exact same discount off. And I am here every week to remind you mother efforts to go order your coffee. Listen to me. Your spouse will appreciate it, your co workers will appreciate it. Your local judge match straight police officers will appreciate it. Everyone will like you better if you're caffeinated. Just trust me on this yeah, so far accurate. And if you don't like coffee, then your your life is already sad. So yeah, I wonder about those folks they claim they're okay. I don't think they are. I'm pretty sure they're all dying inside. Very possible, all right, before we get to topic this this crawled across my news feed today and I thought it was out freaking standing. Now, in the name of full disclosure, us v. Himani is going to have some mixed results from the farms community because there's a lot of people out there that say that if you smoke pot, you shouldn't have guns, you should be a good law abiding citizen, and YadA, YadA, YadA, YadA yah. And most of those people are fuds, and I ignore them to the best of my ability. But I tend to believe from an intellectually consistent position of a libertarian, which I happen to be that I like whiskey and cigars and coffee, and caffeine's highly addictive, and yep, alcohol kills people every freaking year. It's also undoubtedly heavily addictive for those that have addictive personalities. And nicktine is also highly addictive. So because I like my drugs. I say that if somebody else wants to gonj out, you're not at the same time to play with guns. But you know ganjo out separately from. Me don't advocate for heavy consumption of alcohol while handling guns. So I think it's just, you know, a wise course of act. I don't really know that I advocate for anyone being like psychologically or mentally or physically impaired while handling firearms. It just seems like a bad idea. But for the person that's it's definitely a safety issue. For the person that likes to participate in some recreational substance use, I don't think that they're right. Their right to have firearms for their own self preservation the defense of their community should be stripped away from them permanently by government that's helped in on finding any reason to take guns from anybody. Well, look, the only constitutionally enforced law is shall not be infringed. Doesn't mention anything about drugs, doesn't mention anything about felons. If we want to be strict constitutionalists, which you tend to favor, and I have also been known to favor from time to time, can't take away guns because somebody got high one time. Yeah, I mean, we don't want people from running for president because they smoked a bit of weed. Obama, Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton again. Listably Trump. I have never heard any allegations they smoke pot. But I guess I just kind of naturally assumed that any. Should sees a teetotaler like he doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, and Pheta means maybe, I. Mean the guy's kind of a spaz. Yes, although you also have to bear in mind that, like my definition of drug is a very loose one, and I count most pharmaceuticals all pharmaceuticals or drugs. Yes, But I guess my point is is that just because you get your recreational drugs from a guy on the corner and someone else has money and insurance so they get their wreck their recreational substances from a prescribed by a doctor and build your insurance, doesn't mean you're not a pill head. You're still taking drugs. You just you're just getting them from a different source. You are, you just have daddy's permission, slip. Yes, And that's that's really the only difference. And I I think a lot of those are kind of ridiculous. If you want to kill yourself through pharmaceuticals, go ahead, but I'm not paying for it, and I'm not paying for your treatment afterwards. That's on you. You made that choice, and I think that's fairly intellectually, can system and morally consistent. Yeah, but back to US v. Hamani, the part of this, it gives me a big old chuckle, and I'll be the first to omit. I am usually the crimudgey bastard on the show that is like, this doesn't matter. We're going to get screwed in the end, and you know, the laws not on our side. The courts are rigged against us. I'm that person most of the time. But it does do me a bit of a chuckle to see the United States government gets slapped nine to zero in a Supreme Court case because the Supreme Court not with a unanimous decision, with a decision and multiple what was the word not consenting decisions, but basically there were like three different decisions made all were in favor of the defendant, but not for the reason right, which is unusual. It's also usually it's also an indication that the government really really picked the wrong fight on this one they did. In my opinion, they picked the wrong fight on this one. I think that the real reason why we saw this ruling now when we did is because, let's face it, it's a what half or more of states now have decriminalized or legalized pot marijuana whatever, they're changing the schedule list for it. At the federal level. The writing's kind of on the wall, and Scotis is going, hey, look, I can be fun too. I don't really think this is them saying well, constitutionally no, I think it was them trying to get a pr win. I think maybe. But the other thing I'm noticing is that there was a lot of handwringing over the interstate Commerce Clause, which I've been amazingly critical of in the. Past, because there's a lot of commerce that does not happen interstate that is still regulated under it. I can remember multiple instances in which people were put in prison over suppressors that never cross state lines, but the government insists we can still regulate them for reasons. If I may manufacture a cylindrical object, say this cylindrical object, which I did manufacture out of barstock. Now it's completely worthless because I didn't get the heat treat right, but it stays in my basement. It goes nowhere. No one paid me to make it. I didn't pay for anyone to make it. There was no commerce that took place. You can't regulate that cylinder under the interstate commerce clause. It's not legally consistent unless a government agd decides it really needs an excuse to shoot your dog and burn your house down. Sure, I mean it's not, but still it's just because they do it doesn't mean it is legally correct or right. I will grant you that. I mean, the government does illegal things all the time. In fact, wildly illegal things constantly, and they do them to enforce the law that they were I think all those staged drug busts are full or all the weapons deals with the Mexican cartels Iran contract. You know, Operation Fast and Furious. Yeah, we can't go forty five minutes without a news story breaking about the federal government violating its own guidelines and rules. I mean, Christ, it's just ridiculous. I do have to disagree with Stewart here, fed say the raw material across state lines. The raw material was not a regulated item at the time across state lines correct, just saying. Yeah, you know, he's he's correct, And that was the Fed's argument. It's a dumb argument. It's irrelevant. The man could have used that raw material to make any number of completely legitimate items, and I would argue he did. Yeah, But like I said, I just wanted to kind of give a quick shout for that. It always, it always gives me a chuckle when I see the government slap itself on the PP. I know it's kind of perfunctory. But speaking of the government getting slapped down, Doc brings up a very excellent point. The vampire laws in. Hawaii have been slapped down, which has implications for New Jersey and New York as well. What are vampire laws? Essentially, if you have a firearm on you, you cannot enter someone else's property unless they give you positive consent. They have to invite you and your firearm into the place. Yeah, it seems kind of dumb to me, but it is dumb. What is the point of having concealed weapons permits if you have to ask everyone at the door, Hey, can I come inside to Stuart? No, I haven't read Thomas's consent. I literally found out about this just before this when this show went live and I was grousing to Nick about how absolutely hellish my week at work it has been. So this was kind of a throw it into the end zone. Hail Mary the last second not a topic. Yeah, the. You had a very aggressive week at work. I had a very troublesome week at work. But I have to say, yet again, we've reached the end of the intern's work week. He still has all ten fingers. Does he speak Polish and Irish now or just the fun work? He has learned some creative swear words in both Polish and Irish and managed to use them in a sentence correctly by the end of the day, So I think we did excellent education. Yeah, Garrick and I are going to have to put together a little welcome package for everybody when they come down to Louisiana and educate them in cursing in cajun. I will have to bone up on that because I've forgotten most of those words. Look, but if you hear me call you too young, it means you did something silly. Yeah, Stuart, you're retired. You can't have a rough week at work. I think that's his point. That's very fair, Okay, two topic our specialty guns and Ammo's stupid sometimes sometimes and I'm I'm gonna have a very I'm gonna have a bit of an opinion about this, because the caveat to this is for civilians. So like, let's let's talk about this ever so briefly. Like the idea of like specialty guns is in a lot of ways, in my opinion, kind of like rooted deeply in military doctrine. And from that perspective, when you have a whole fire team backing you up, you can afford to like take this guy and specialize them, and take that guy and specialize them because he's got all these buddies that have other things that do the things your weapon doesn't. You can have a dedicated shotgun guy because if you got someone else in the squad that can shoot out three hundred meters, then the limitations of his firearm aren't applicable because the rest of the squad can back them up. It goes back to the idea of like a fire team that could dates back for many many generations and military doctrine that if we have like a guy with a bolt action DMR, he he's giving up a lot of rapid fire firepower in exchange for greater range. That makes sense when you have a whole fire team within one grands or within sixteen's or something backing you up, because your lack of individual firepower is overcome by the rest of the fire team. Absolutely, But if you're in a civilian setting, you might be the only person with gun at the time. True. If not, you might be the primary person with gun, because it might be you might be like the one defending the family while everybody else takes shelter. So it's a very different calculation for like, how much can I specialize my weapon to any specific thing knowing that I don't have a fire team backing me up? And for anybody that says you should have a fire team backing you up, you have a lot cooler friends than I do. Most of my friends live too far away to help me out with that kind of thing. Look, and let's be let's be completely blunt here, there's also a budgetary concern that comes in that the military just does not have. Look, your fire team is not working with one person's income, or if both of you work, two people's incomes in that house, or if great you have the incomes of an entire nation to fit you out with exactly the minution you need to do that job correctly. Point of order. You have the FEDA reserves money printer to outfit you your heart's content. Yeah, the same thing. And you know the five thousand dollars hammers in the twenty thousand dollars toilet seeds. So the DoD can't pass a budget war, but that's a different discussion. Look, a little bribery goes a long way, That's all I'm saying. Yeah, So again, especially guns and AMMO. For civilians, I think what we have to do first off is we have to approach this from do you have the rest of your bases covered? Because if you do, if you have your food unlockdown, your alternative power sources set up and ready to go, you got healthy emergency fund, got your medical care on point, You've taken your classes, you put in your range time, you've got your AMMO. Then yeah, I mean, feel free to buy whatever obsolete or obscure firearms you want and collect him as a hobby. Great, go forth and do cool shit and break antique guns. Live on the firing line. Sometimes it's hilarious to watch hey man, we had a we had a we had a fun one. At one of the range days, we were doing a three gun match and one of the guys, my former coworker and foreman, showed up with a I believe it was an eighteen ninety five street sweeper, you know, a shotgun, and he just detonated the receiver. Yeah. It just it just one round too many, sub subpar steel compared to modern firearms, and it just it gave up and blew up in the middle of the match, and he just went, well, shit, that was expensive. Yeah, that's why I make it a point to not, first of all, I not own anything that if it broke itself in half, I wouldn't be heartbroken. Annoy. Oh, he wasn't heartbroken. He was more like mildly inconvenienced. All right, I'm gonna throw this up. This is actually just gonna stay up. So I threw together a bunch of different types of specialty farm center. Actually the GPR is some of these are acronyms that are gonna take some explanation, but like the GPR is general purpose rifle. So that's like ostensibly like a sixteen rack grade semi auto. Magazine fed box magazine. Fourteen and a half to sixteen inch barrel, something off the rack, something very general purpose, the exact opposite of specialty, because that is pretty much like the one thing, the one rifle that if you have to have one rifle, it will do all the things acceptably. So then the question comes to the next category. Over a special purpose rifle. This is like eighteen to twenty inch barrel, little bit more range, same cartridge as your GPR, which in most people's cases is going to be another five five six ar with a little bit more barrel. Maybe it's more or mediatridge of some kind. Yeah, it could be a three hundred blackout, could be a six point eight. So the question is still useful for civilian, like how much compromise is baked into that decision to go with a longer barrel versus a shorter barrel, have more magnification versus something that has better acquisition, Like it's like a prism or a red dot, the extra way of a bipod. Like how much compromise is involved there versus just a general purpose rifle. I don't think a lot have you have you run a twenty inch rifle since basic I mean I deployed with a twenty inch trifle nick twice. Yeah, I mean like have in like say, a competitive shooting environment, like yes you did in combat. I mean are recounting maneuvering in and out of humvies with. Yeah, that's fine. I mean if how much of an inconvenience was the extra four inches realistic? So realistically, the only time that extra barrel turned into a gigantic pain on the butt, and this is kind of an edge case in most cases was when you are on the roll window down rifle out the window and you had to open the door, pull the rifle in, get and dismount the vehicle quickly. Sure, in that one narrow edge case, having four inches of less barrel or four and a half or five and a half inches less barrel. Yeah, I could see that making the maneuver easier. But that being said, we still we trained around it. Like you and I've talked about this before, about the fact that like a lot of people talk about how they needed this like super short cut down barrel so you can move through hallways. And your answer, mind was always like just cock the cock the the stock up on top of your shoulder under beat the shoulder like there's a there's literally a position where you literally like pull the buttstock undereath your arm and you shorten this whole thing up to where the receiver is. Basically it's next to your rib cage and your point shooting. It's not super accurate, but the point is is if you're going around a corner, is that if somebody tries to jump on you, you can get them off of you quickly and right in the case of the vehicle, we learn very quickly that you basically hold the rifle still, you open the door and you fling it open, and the door would open off of the barrel, if that makes sense. It's just it's learning different techniques to work around the length of the barrel. And I don't think that having the longer barrel hurt us that much. I mean, I don't think it gave us that much given the type environment we were in Iraq either, But I certainly don't think it was hurting anything. So if you need the extra what two three hundred feet per second out of your fifty five or sixty two grain, I don't think a twenty inch barrel is hurting you much. I'll tell you this for when I was shooting three gun competitions. The different that I found a twenty inch barrel with a a well performing muzzle break made over a sixteen inch barrel with like a bird cage was significant in how easy it was to keep the rifle on target for rapid rapid fire and for point shooting at close range targets. So there were some there were some setups that we would do where you had to come around the side of a bunker and get the gun up as fast as possible and engage some close range targets. And with that twenty inch barrel you could have it tucked up over your shoulder. You're pointing out and it's like pointing your index finger right at the target. No problem, no site, picture didn't matter. Click click, click, click click around the corner. You can engage five or six targets. By the time a lot of the guys with a sixteen inch barrel, where that barrel is closer to them, we're able to punch out neck and acquire some of the targets. Now, maybe that was a technique issue on their end. It very well could have been. But I found two when I would shoot my sixteen verse my twenty my split times were faster. And this is yes, strictly competition. Speaking, but there's carry over azone hits in competition at a significantly faster rate. You know, it's it's not completely inapplicable. I think really the one to me least the biggest plus to a GPR. It's not it's not inherently that the shorter the shorter barrel makes the gun more maneuverable. It does make it point a little bit faster. That's just basic physics. But I think really the biggest difference is the weight cut off the front of the rifle. It they balanced so much better without all the extra way hanging out in the front. And I didn't find that to be an issue at all. And I run a full length heavy rail. True, but think about combat patrols where you're not I mean, that's fine again, I'm also a bigger guy. Well, I mean, I've served with some really big guys too, But the point is that pounds are still pounds, and when you have to carry the thing in a hand for several hours while you're on a combat patrol like a lighter weapon, that's the whole reason the m sixteen is what it is. It's because M fourteen's way a shitload they do. I mean, they also punch through bricks like it's no one's business. But that's what cru serve weapons are for. Man. Yeah, that's true. I look, I like large caliber rifles. I don't know why, I just do masochism. Mostly it's probably what it is. It's probably what it is. So yeah, I'm gonna say that GPR SPR. I don't think you're giving up much with an SPR like I could. I could totally see that as like the two sides of one coin. If a person said, I value shorter, I value more manoeuvable. I value I like red dots better, or I value longer barrel. I value like a one to six or one to eight or even like at three to twelve. Even in it like if you go with an SPR with a quality red dot, say with like a donut of death and a center pip or anything like that. Most of the modern red dots have various different rahtical options. You can punch headshots at three hundred yards with a twenty inch barrel. It's a non issue. I mean, what was the magnification set on your rifle and we were shooting at three hundred six, and wow, that was when you were shooting. I think I dialed it back. I don't know. I think the parallax was fucking with my vision. Doesn't mess with My eyes are shit. I've got a stigmatism like like you wouldn't believe. But anyway, ours are probably just different enough that it works better for you at six than it does for me at one. But I had no problem bringing the three hundred yard gong on a rifle I had what six rounds out of I have to admit I wasn't expecting a lot of that rifle out in Kentucky. I got my money's worth that of it. That whole thing. That whole thing is accurate enough. I'm curious to see how if it'll do any better with a change of powder. It could. If you can get the velocities to where the barrel whip is at its happiest point, then I'll it'll do more than you think. That barrel. That's a better barrel than you made it out to me to be. I think, and that this has kind of been my well, before we get back to topic, because we can't get off topic. My experience with ce if you two two three for a five five to six powder is very similar to most peoples that I've talked to, and that it's okay. It's not the most accurate, it's not the highest velocity, it's an okay powder. So, having done a ladder low with CEE, if you two two three, I think the problem I'm running into their is that the powder is just slow enough that even with those heavier five five to six bullets, I'm getting to a point where, like, if I could get a little bit more velocity before I hit pressure signs, I could probably get into that next accuracy node, probably, but I'm already so high up in the ladder by the time I get to the first accuracy node that I can't get to the point where it scatters and then come back down. And I think starting with a faster powder, not dramatically faster, but I mean twenty is it's a little bit slower than i'mar forty sixty four. It's a fair bit faster than Varga boc two and see if you two two three. So like I don't know, and you know, the traditional knowledge was always that faster powders bitter or favor lighter bullets. But I think see if you two two three, By virtue of its formulation is like it's about as slow as you can tolerate in five, five, six, and that's why it works okay in everything, but not fantastic for anything. Yeah. Probably, I mean you could try, you could try weighting your barrel for better harmonics, to alter your accuracy nodes in the higher velocity bands. But you're getting into some voodoo there a little bit, and if that weight falls off, suddenly your gun doesn't shoot the same. Yeah. I would rather just find like the most accurate load I can find, and in a reasonably attainable powder. So there are some powders that are hard to get. Yeah, they're just hard to get anyway. So GPR, SPR, I'm gonna rule not dumb. No, no fantastic idea. Both of them fairly usable. If you're in a situation where, say you are dealing with say, four legged predators as well as two legged predators. SPR makes a little more sense, especially if you have a large property where you could be engaging with like say, coyotes, wild pigs, whatever, at a reasonable engagement distance beyond like what a just basic read that would be comfortable with. Yeah, Stuart, No, we haven't gotten to spr and DMR, you are right on time. That was the next thing we were going to talk about time. So now understand, I'm not saying this is like the only gun you own, but it is gonna be the only gun in your hands when you have to get into a fight with it. Sure, DMR. It depends on your environment very much. So so here here's kind of where I am on this again with the idea that you are the only shooter in the situation, Well, you're only shooter on your side in the situation. You don't have a fire team behind you, you don't have a bunch of buddies. Your wife is not playing any Oakley standing next to you. She's she's taken shelter. It's just you. The DMR to me, makes a lot of sense if you're in that weird edge case where range matters more than the size of the firearm, the weight of the firearm, the you know, the amount of ammunition in your magazine, the ability to put multiple rounds on target. You're in a one v one situation because even if you have a DMR, and even if you have some good magnification, and even if you're at range, if it's five on one, I don't want to be taking fire from five guys fire wildly in my direction because the yeah, I'll start to stack up against me. Then I'm gonna catch a lucky round. Volume does seem to have an accuracy all of its own after a certain point. Every military and history has proven this. Accuracy by volume is accuracy. Yeah. Look, if here's here's a problem that you're going to run into with the DMRs, that that I think bear's discussion. If you are using a DMR in a self defense situation, you're gonna have an awful hard time justifying why you're taking three hundred plus yard shots for self defense. Unless the average jury is gonna look at that and go, why didn't you just run away? Right? You had an awful long time to leave. Yeah, I have heard some legal justifications that basically mounted to like I had a rifle the other day. Had a rifle, Like if I turn around round an engagement distance, but we do need circle back round too. We have to find these things a DMR. A DMR differs from an SPR in the fact that it doesn't necessarily have to be bolt action, it can be a semi auto, but you are typically not dealing with an intermediate cartridge. You're dealing with a full power short action, maybe a long action, but at least a short. Action cartridge designated marksmanship rifle. So if you think of any of the. Sniper rifles that modern militaries use, so something M fourteen with a higher magnification optic seven hundred, anything, that would be your guy. Your job is to take precision shots at great distances. Yes, great distance being kind of a slide light gale than the. Spr gpr's engagement range, so beyond two hundred and three hundred yards or meters. Yeah. So again to me, I think that there's an edge case here, and I feel like we have to we have to couch all this in like in the self defense situations, because if you're talking about like predator control, that's the difference. Most coyotes aren't shooting back at you, I would hope not. Unless you're on the border, in which case the coyotes probably would. Yes, that's when you need a cruiser weapon and a bunch of friends of yours from border patrol. But anyway, so like I'm going to say like, I wouldn't say DMR dumb, but I am going to say that DMR the in the civilian realm for self defense probably doesn't make near as much sense as a GPR or an sbr. It in modern current I must say current climate. Yes, it's going to be awfully hard in most states to justify that use of force. Yeah, legally to a jury. You're gonna be making your defense attorney really work for his pay. Yeah. And you know what does that mean you shouldn't buy one? No, that just means you're it's probably not gonna be the gun you grab. Probably not. Probably, So moving right along, I had to sneak in her night vision gun because my GPR is literally stacked up with night vision crap on it. Half of all time is nighttime. Half of all time is nighttime. I'm gonna tell you that some of the downsides too, Like and I wouldn't even say this is like dedicated night vision gun. I mean, I guess you could argue like if you had a if you had a gun, you're on R. I'm far sighted guy that comments. I'll tell you what, when I see him show up in the chat, I never quite know what we're gonna get because sometimes he says stuff as slightly out of pocket, but then he drops something like that that's like, okay, sir, you just wanted the internet for this hour, like you get the prize. But like I said, like I I'm thinking like night vision gun, like the way I built one where it's like you got a laser, you've got your you're kind of stuck with a red dot because magnified sky play nice. Yeah, and now we're you almost are obligated to like also loop in the whole conversation about how if you want to play with night vision, you have to put like four to four to eight thousand dollars on your head, which is many many firearms and much ammunition worth of stuff to run around in the darkened look like a nerd. So like we're to to be able to play with night vision, to have a firearm that's outfit for an eight vision. You and I've had talks about how eye wateringly expensive anything related to night vision is. It is like the tiny little box of laser crap that's on the end of my end of my barrel, which by the way, was a budget eight hundred dollars lamp. Yeah, you can quite easily triple that, oh with just the laser box. I mean, mauls were selling for like two and a half three stacks for a while there. Mm hm. B. Myers is a real out of those. Night vision very cool night vision, very fun, phenomenally expensive use most for self defense, I will say, if the self defense is happening. At night, sure it is. You know what else is really useful for self defense at night? Fill weapon lights? Weapon lights. You can get a very nice quality weapon light for about two three hundred bucks. Yeah, you can get them cheaper than that, but a nice one two three hundred bucks not too bad, less than the case, ammo depend. I think I'm into the light that's on that particular rifle about four point fifty including the switch, So like you're talking about like a unity switch plus four fifty verse forty five hundred bucks just for the night vision on your head. Yeah. And the other thing of it is like, because you got to include the mountain the helmet too, and go one step further than a three hundred dollars weapon light. Put some floodlights on the outside of your house. Now everybody gets to play in the light. Look if if the power is out. Great, you're the guy with night vision. Fantastic, that's excellent. It's it's one of those things that I'm gonna call it also an edge case. Yeah, much like using a DMR and self defense, this is gonna be an edge case situation. You know. Stewart makes a good point. Night vision is really only good for self defense if you have the time. It depends on how your system is set up, I will say. I will say, and don't I don't keep mine like on standby, rigged up ray to throw on my helmet in my head to run out the door. I mean, I guess, I guess you could make that argument. And quite frankly, after a hurricane, when the power's out, I do kind of stage shit up around the house like we are. That's the time when it could be viable. But I will say this the only place I think night vision and this isn't even a specially firearms thing. This, since we're talking about night vision. The place where night vision really shines has nothing to do with having a lamb on your gun or being able to shoot at night. It's observation. Oh absolutely, It is the fact that with the lights off, with no one having any earthly idea that I'm standing out in the front yard or that I'm standing in the woods if there's no moonlight, because if there's you know this, there's another Like even in the city if the power's out, if you've got a full moon or most of a full moon, you can see well enough to see people walking around without anything eight in your eyes. So it's one of those situations where it's like in the darkest of dark nights, if I have night vision on and you don't, I can see exactly what you're doing at distance and you can't tell that I'm there. And that is Oh, absolutely, that is useful. I've used that to sneak up on a group of teenagers ever misbehaving, and it was hilarious. I'm pretty sure one of them you're dated down his pants. It was cool. Yeah, But that's not specialty gun. That's night vision as an observation device. I just I don't think I don't think it makes sense for the average person to invest the money into like full on a PBS fourteen or a set of buyos and then have the laser box on rifle and like build a rifle around the idea of night vision. My GPR has night vision stuff on it because I have night vision. But I'm gonna tell you, honestly, I've spent more time with that night vision stargazing and checking out shooting stars and doing stuff like that, and that's fun and cool, but it's not I have a PBS fourteen for home defense. It's in my opinion, it's one of those it's one of those next level pieces of kit that you only should start thinking about. When everything else is when you have when you. Have all your bases covered, when you're financially sound, got your food, got your water, got your generator, got your medical got all your training for the stuff, because that look, the rifles don't do you any good if you've never learned how to run them properly. And I do mean run them, not operate. Yeah, because people can operate a firearm. Just find on a flat. Range in a booth and let me stump on that for just a second. Like i've I've I've been very critical in the night vision community about two things either, which would be surprising any by the knows. Mean, first of all, please, for the love of Christ, don't ever finance my vision. There's a million things you should be spending your money on. And if you cannot, like pull four to six thousand dollars out of your behind and go drop it on something. Or if you can't, if you can't take six grand and light it on fire in the front yard without not being able to pay your bills next month, you have no need for night vision. You need to go save your money and gets get out of debt and get some ereth things taken care of. That's like total dad advice. It's not cool. It's not what the influencers tell you. I'm just telling you please don't finance night vision at on a credit card, for Christ's sakes. And the other thing I'm gonna say is when I was enlisted, they taught me how to do all kinds of stuff with night vision, and zero of it was shooting. Actually, I take it back. I had the familiarization course, but that's it. We learn how to drive, we learn how to do recon, how to do recon work, we learn how to freak in secure checkpoints, We learn all kind of administrative stuff because nine times out of ten, that's what you do with night vision. You're observing in a low LNE environment where you cannot be observed observing somebody else. So what I tell everybody is like, if you're going to get night vision, the best training you can get is to put the stupid thing on, go outside at night, and just learn how to walk around. Understand what this does to your field of view, what this does to like your death perception. I'm gonna tell you, Bud, thank god I have mine on a bump helmet because I have whacked my I have whacked the top of my helmet on so many things. Because your optic is right, he is out here, and it looks like strant is right here, and it just goes thunk right in the forehead constantly. Yeah. I have heard that from every single person I know that owns night vision. Like, man, you wouldn't believe the amount of shit you trip over and bump into even though you can see. I don't. I don't know how to express to someone who's never done it how disorienting it can be. And like I understand there's somebody out there's gonna say, well, it's just like it's just like having your eyes open, but everything's green and it's just freaking not. It is. It is challenging it's the learning how to be around with my Vision is no more challenging or difficult than any other farm related school you're ever gonna learn. You just have to put the time in. I'm just telling you that, like. You absolutely do, and a lot of and most I would say most of the people I know that do own night Vision, they put the time in when they first buy it, but then they don't keep current a lot. Of the time. Yeah, because it's the cool new toy, and everybody like the cool new toy. Yeah. I mean that's also the reason why every chance I get to like take it out and show it off, I do because it gives me the It gives me the kick in the butt to go do something with it again. Mm hmm. Absolutely. But anyway, so I'm gonna say night Vision has its use called an edge case. I wouldn't say it's dumb, but I would certainly not say it is like it is like something you really really have to have or you're just you're not gonna get your prepper card punched. It. To me, it is dumb if you don't have your other basis covered. Yeah, if in any way puts a financial strain on you, Night vision is dumb? Are there are cheaper ways you can get. Not the same, but you can get an effective. Tool for that. So we are two for two on specialty firearms being dumb. How do you feel about truck guns? This is like, this is not the handgun you carry when you happen to be sitting in your truck. This is like, no, the gun that lives in your truck, the dedicated gun that goes in your truck in case you have to, like Christian Craig's head somebody at the mole. So and you really deser, really need that tiny little, that tiny little not handgun thing, Phil. When I was growing up this was and I grew up out in the country, these were called ranch rifles. That was like the rsack across the back window of the truck. Yeah, it was in the farm truck that never actually left the farm property. And it was really just there for zapp and yoats out in the field, hitting foxes at the hen at the henhouse, you know, stuff like that. Dealing with predator control. It wasn't until you know, gosh, it was after I bought my first house that I actually even following the YouTube gun community started hearing about truck guns. Everybody needs to have a truck gun. Why you gotta have a truck gun because it's better than a pistol. Look, I don't like having my firearms unsecured, which in the locked vehicles not really secured in my opinion, when I'm not with them. Most criminals get their firearms by stealing firearms or buying stolen firearms. I don't like the idea of arming the people that might want to do violence against me, And the only people that really would have a tendency to are either the federal government because they gotta bug up their ass, or the local criminals. I don't want to get shot with my own gun. That just seems fucking dumb to me. That doesn't seem like a great thing. If you happen to live on a five thousand acre ranch and you deal with predator control all the time, and that ranch rifle stays in the ranch truck that never leaves the ranch property, and the only three people that ever see that truck are your ranch employees, go forth and slaughter yoats to your heart's content. If you're gonna have a truck gun, say downtown Milwaukee or in Rockford where car breakings happen all the time. It better be in a vehicle mounted safe, and I do mean bolted to the vehicle, yeah, like to the frame, to the frame into some heavy duty body panels. It better not be one of those steel cable little pistol vaults. Kind of deals. I get having one of those in your car for when you're like, well, shit, I gotta go to the county and argue about my shed again, so I'm going to put the gun in there, so I'm not doing a felony. That was hyper specific top that seems to happen a lot to certain people, just saying like I might las fortune, but you just dropped that very specific example. It happens to me a shocking amount. Well, that is a government building or coming into the gun as a felon. If you just stop arguing with the county, this wouldn't be an issue. I don't even just give me the goddamn permit to do the exact same thing somebody did in nineteen seventy nine. Six feet to the left, this would also not be an issue. Jesus Christ, I gotta circle back around to a couple of these because start Stewart is running unless you're Phil he gets night vision before getting a shotgun. I did not which I did not include shotgun on the list, but we will shot no, no, no, no, we were talking truck gun. Yep, save that's save shotgun. To tell you what, here's what we're gonna do on the fly, just for Stuart there. Yeah, Stuart, I should move to Texas. But it's really fucking hot in Texas and does not want to live in Texas. It's also really fucking hot. Like all a few people that want me to move near you live in places where it's absolute hell twelve months of the year. I mean, you can go to North Louisiana. It's cooler up there and they have tornadoes and snow, so it'll be just like home. Actually, that probably would be about right. I mean, dude, North Louisiana is basically South Arkansas and South Arkansas. Are There a lot of French in North Louisian not as much so the French. The French were mostly like asshole. The French were mostly from the middle point of the state South. When you get up into like more north, you're dealing more like English, Irish, German. Ha your wife sold you out. It's not cooler there, Gillian Hush, I am trying my best to convince Nick and move Louisiana so we can start a business venture making things that are illegal in Illinois. That's fair. Well, that's like seventy percent of all things. Yes, So you should come to North Louisiana. I'll move up there in a couple of years and we can make We can open a little a little shop and just call it hood rat shit. We could, and that would probably sell fairly well every at least the T shirts. Dude, everyone would know exactly what we make if we just named the business hood rat shit. That's fair anyway, uh Id thirty eight saying a few weeks ago, when we had a tornado go by the house knock the power out, I walked the property in my night vision to check the animals in the barn. Way better than using white light. Fair use of night vision, honestly, if you've got a large property and animals to manage, very fair reason to have it. Yeah, and I mean in not a self defense use, but in that situation, night vision or thermal makes a lot more sense because now you're talking about using it for like pest control. True, but not a self. Pest control or monitoring where your animals are, especially in very dark conditions, or if there's brush, a little bit of brush and stuff in the way. Thermal's fantastic. Yeah, Ragofragle is saying about night vision. It turns everything two D whether you notice or not. Yes, it does. It does take I'm just telling you, like night vision, night vision is not is. It's cool. It's a superpower, but it it takes training, and it takes retraining the way your brain interprets things through your eyeballs to really be able to use it effectively. And if you it's like any tool. Yeah, but the problem with night vision is is like for those people that I have never tried it, they think it's really simple, and then the first time you crack yourself in the forehead or trip over your feet or trip over air, you realize it's a little more disorienting than you think, and you have to literally retrain your brain how to work under those conditions. It's not difficult, but it just takes work, and it's it's the boring, nerdy bull crap that everybody's gonna say, I want to learn how to shoot in a night vision I'm like it'd be better if you could walk before you try to shoot. Just a thought, most definitely, And Stuart's agreeing with you. Your truck nor car is a holster. I agree. Yeah. So my thing about a truck gun is I don't subscribe to the idea of gun that stays in truck all the time, because I have a handgun for that, and that handgun plus the spearmag is usually plenty of firepower to get out of ninety eight percent of self defense situations. The only time I subscribed to truck gun is when I'm driving like multiple hoursay, like if sure, if we're going on vacation, we're going like four or five hours away, I don't bring truck gun with me in case I get I get pulled over by vandals on the side of the interstate and have to fight my way at a harm's way. I'm in a five thousand pound vehicle. I'm gonna run you over and then I'm gonna call I'm gonna call along Congs. Yes, after I turn you into four greasy spots on the highway because you pulled out a gun and jumped in front of my vehicle, I'll deal with the consequences thereafter. But the truck gun is really like, Hey, if we're like four or five hours from home and something weird happens, like another nine to eleven where they lock down all the airspace and they just locked like the whole country goes on lockdown all of a sudden. I'm five hours away from all the rest of my firearms, all the rest of my ammunition, all the rest of my food, all the rest of my water, and I now need to get home five hours away. It'd be really nice to not have just a nine mil and two magazines to be able to do that. It'd be nice to have something like a scorpion and four five thirty round magazine in an extra pack of ammo just in case, something with a little more reache, something a little more rage, a PCC with like a seven or eight inch barrel, a very small cut down three hundred blackout or five five six anything sorry, anything other than a handgun. Yeah, anything a little bit better. Those are the moments in time I feel like truckgun really makes sense. But that's not even like truck gun in a self defense situation. That's a truck gun in a preparedness situation. Yeah, I think that's that is taking appropriate equipment for the distance you will be away from home. Yeah, so I feel like truck gun for when we're away from from when we're a long disagay from home, not stupid truck gun because I need to run around to the corner store and I might have to. Christian Craig's had some guys exiting, you know, doing stupid stuff in them all. Maybe spend your bucks on something else. And our wives are having a conversation that needs to be had in the light. Yeah, your wife said, I foresee too many problems with both of you living in the same state, to which I replied, But then we would live in the same state, and that's when the problems are really going to start. That's that could get expensive, especially if we found a definitely not cult ranch. Dude. I mean, look, I keep saying the fact that you and I are as similar as we are, and we married wives that have a lot of similarity, wildly similar and get along very well from what I can tell. Yeah, that says a couple of things about about lady teachers and their choices and spouses. Apparently they like special needs children that are adults. It works out. All right, yeah, all right, bag gun, I'm gonna say the exact same thing I did about the truck gun, except except with more caveats, because, like bag gun, I don't think makes a ton of sense. I think, I think, I feel, I not feel, and not think. Based on statistics and based on rationality, ninety eight percent of firefights might even eighty percent of self defense situations are solved inside of one magazine with a handgun. And inside of what was it seven yards? Yes, seven to ten yards, So we're kind of in the same situation as like the night vision where it's like, well, yeah, it takes you five minutes to get it on your head and strap it on your body, Like what's the point, Well, if it takes you unless if it takes you ten to fifteen seconds to extract your bag gun and like flip the stock out, lock and loaded, yet to eat out, power up your red diet, the fight's over and you're probably you've probably lost. Yeah versus versus, rent your shirt up, take your carry gun out and present, and do what you gotta do. If you do your Holester drills appropriately, there's no reason why you shouldn't get down around or under a one second dross drill. Yeah, I think you actually made me go back and look at my manus X and we realized that. I was like, you're right on that, on that cusp, weren't you breaking through a second? I was like point nine seven once I was like point one. I was like one point one, one point two most of the time. But then shockingly enough, when I went back and looked at what I was drawing out of a level two, a level two retention holster, I was only like one point five. That's pretty quick. First that was I mean, admittedly, God, I gotta get back to practicing, but that was with a fair amount of practice over the course of several weeks. But I mean when you can when you can grab a level when you can grab out of a level two retention holster and get to first shot in about one and a half seconds, that's screaming in my book. You got to remember too, that the reaction speed of a person visually seeing something and being able to physically react is about seven tenths of a second before they start to react. So if you are a good portion of your way through your drawstroke now you don't have to be at full extension press out to break your a shot. If you can get good at point shooting out of a holster, say from halfway through your drawstroke, you can have fired around on target before they've been able to process what you have just done, and that puts you at a massive advantage. Now, bag guns same problem for me as truck guns. What is the most common thing that people will snatch off of you in like quick opportunity crimes. Bag They grab your purse, they grab your backpack, they grab the. Bag you set down on the chair next to you at the restaurant while you're not paying attention talking to the waitress. I don't like unsecured firearms that are not within my area of control. Yeah, I mean, that's totally fair criticism for me. It's just more of a that that edge case where I need more firepower than handgun. Yeah, then I'm graveling. I can understand that. But that's but here's the thing. When I when I have truck gun because I'm traveling, it's not as if I have like guns sitting on backseat next to my daughter. It's in a freaking bag, in a nondescript bag that I can carry into a hotel without anybody noticing. So like a bag gun to me, what most people say when they mean baggun, do they mean like a mess bag or a backpack or something like that. Yeah, they mean the ar broken in half in a backpack that they take to business meetings. Yeah, right subway with And I just I cannot see the utility in a thing you need to use in a spur of the moment engagement that takes you like many times longer than it would draw your handgun from concealment from a holster, when it takes you many times longer to pull out, set up, screw together, to recite the incantations to appease the machine GUIDs, and then you can finally go do things with the firearm you had broken down inside your bag. And I mean where this comes from comes from, I believe is the Executive Protection Area, which is a very cool guy doing the executive protection ship. And they think, oh, yeah, I gotta have that because the professionals have that. They have that because they're in a high threat environment or high threat situations. Also, first of all, first of all, Stewart said, all my red dots are shake away because I mentioned power you up the red dot. Okay, fine, but it's still good. They are until. Your shakeaway fails, which occasionally does happen. Occasionally they will not shake away. I've seen, I've seen them not. The other thing about executive executive protection world. Have you ever have you ever watched the way they train that drill where it's like, protect the asset, get the bag gun out, do all this in the air. Have you ever have you ever watched that drill done? Never with a purposeful eye to analyzing the drill. I will say that step one is you, like you said, you have a team. Mm hmm. I've never seen bag gun done in a one in a one B one, it's always with a team. Mm hmm. What you have is you have a portion of that team whose first job is get the asset to the ground, press down on top of them, everyone draws their handguns. Their first reaction is get handguns out, get the asset, dout, fast field him, and then one or two on that team who've been pre selected are the ones who polster and go for the baggun and have more firepower, while the rest of the team protects the asset and protects the two guys getting their bag guns out because they have their handguns out and these are two guys are fiddle faddling around with bad guns. So like to me, bag gun makes sense in executive protection. It makes sense in a group. It does not make sense in a one v one self defense situation that is going to be encountered by civilians. It just does not, unless you're going to really stretch the definition to like, well, what if I'm like, you know, I don't know, on a hike or whatever, but I don't know. I think for what most people say, bag if. You're taking your gun for a walk in the woods and you don't have it, say on a sling or carried in front of you, you're not gonna have time to use it. Nope. Bear attacks, coyote attacks, both attacks, wild pig attacks. I've seen a lot of videos of the above, none of them except for one. There was one bear attack that was really weird. It was a sick, old grizzly and it kind of wandered around the guy for a few minutes before it committed. That's the rest of them were animal busts out of bushes and comes at you, and you're lucky if you get the first shot. Off. Yeah, and especially given that most people when they're on a hike, they're not looking for some violent animal to rip thempart. They're enjoying nature. Yea, all the more reason why you're not gonna see what's coming until it's on top of you. So I say, baggun dumb. Yeah, barring Like you said, barring, say, transporting your firearm into an out of a hotel, into a out of like an Airbnb or something like that. I understand it if you're traveling, but that's equipping yourself for a very specific purpose, for like your daily use. No, I don't. I don't see bad guns as a good option personally. Yeah. And last, but not least, shotguns are dumb. That's it for Stewart. I'm moving on. Hey, look, shotguns are not dumb. Holding shotguns are not dumb. I refuse to allow this. I was being I was being very sarcastic. I was being you. You saw the look the listener. I can't see my face, but you saw the look on my face. I was sitting there with my finger on the button to flick that off. As soon as I said that, Look, I have to I have to go with Stewart on this one, Phil should have bought a shotgun before you bought night vision as a preparedness personality. As a preparedness minded individual, a shotgun is far more useful in far more situations than night vision is. I'll allow that the biggest reason why I even bought the night Vision when I did was because, oh, it was an opportunity by It was one hundred percent opportunity by absolutely, I meant you for that. Literally it was on my radar, but it was not a oh, I'm gonna buy this right now until literally Andrew just casually dropped I've been thinking about selling this. I can get duels. And my head swiveled around and I was like, say, yeah, here's It really was one of those situations where it's like, and you know, Gilly and I talked about literally that afternoon, and I I radically reorganized several of like my my prepper projects, the irons I had in the fire, like the money I was putting towards that and that and that, and all of a sudden it was like, oh, no, no, all this needs to come here and go here, because if I don't, that optic goes somewhere else, and I don't get it. I don't get as like a shot at it. Yeah, but that being said, I will. Therein is a perfect argument for the opportunity costs you don't have to pass up when you're financially sound. Yeah, Gillion has taken some of the blame for it, because, as the story has been told before, that same trip was when Nick was when Tommy tossed his PBS to fourteen to Gillian and she walked off away from the campfire looking up at the stars set Phil, we need one of these, and I told her, I'm like, you know, that's like three g's. You're holding your hand, right, said, I don't care. See, that's how I feel about antique machine tools. I need to have it. I really don't care about the price. Yeah, Jeff Jag is still taking up Stewart's mantle and grasping me about the chainsaw. But in my defense, I had never needed a chainsaw. Before I needed it, I had done a lot of work with bosaws and axes and all sorts of manual implements and gotten along pretty okay by myself until Mother Nations side dropped three oak trees on my lawn. And that was a bit of a different situation. Anyway, a minute antique machine tools or night vision, because both of those we might know interested parties. I've been Nick, I've been up your button around the corner doing jumping jacks for almost a year now about getting you into night vision, and you keep stonewalling me about renovation. This an adulting had and need a shy to all those other bull crap. I mean, I admire your your ability to tolerate peer pressure, but it's annoying too. That's one of one of the Oh he doesn't that well, you know, send us a message on the website, or shoot me a DM somewhere. We'll talk AD thirty eight. If you go to MF podcast dot com, hit the contact form, I will when it eventually routes to my email, I will. I'll get into Nick's hands. Yeah, we'll see what you got. I'm always I'm always interested in shopping. I'm not always interested in buying. I am talking to a man about several antique pieces of machine tooling and his ability to deliver it into. My garage with a forklift. Fair so yeah, yeah, you know, for all the things I do for the little side hustle, I run doing my design work. I really do need. Also, I did just gut a third of my house. Your wife is cracking the whip over your head. Yeah, I know. I gotta finish double in the closet after work tomorrow, after I mowed the lawn. That's fair. But anyway, we'll get a shot shotgun. So I'm not gonna say shotgun dumb because the thing about a shotgun that we have talked about many people have talked about. Hold up a second audio thirty eight. I'm the one who sold you your PBS fourteen, Phil is that Andrew can't be It could be. I can't see that image well enough to see if that's Nope, me either, our long lost co host. I mean, if he wants to sell me duels for the same price he sold you the PBS fourteen. If he sells you duels for what he sold me at PBS fourteen, I'll be pissed. I know right, it'd be great because he needs he owes me a refund or part, he owes me a rebate or something. That's not how that works. It's inflation. And then he freakd oh, that is Andrew. Nice, good to see you, Andrew. You gotta get back on the show. He's coming back, He's coming back. I am peer pressuring him as the day goes. But shot The thing about a shotgun is what are you laughing at? Oh, it's Andrew saying he'd be sold it to me that cheap. He'd be kicking his own ass. He should be. Those are very nice duels, They are very nice DoLS. I'm gonna be honest though, and I doubt he would fight me on this. I think the I think the one, the one tube I have my PBS fourteen is better than the tubes he has in his duels that I have. Heard from people before that you can get monos that are far better individual tubes then you can typically get duels because with the duels, you're trying to pair two of them together as closely as possible so you don't get the weird anomalies and headaches. Yeah, but if I am two mown Horne, that PBS fourteen is real. Yeah. But seriously, though, as far as shotguns go, in my opinion, they are the most versatile firearm that you can buy. If you're gonna only buy one firearm, it should probably be a pistol that you can concealed carry or a shotgun, and if you're gonna buy two, it better be a pistol and a shotgun. So from a defensive perspective, I agree, and normally I'd be forced to like recount all the downside of shotgun being like, you know, range limited, capacity limited. Yet yeah yeah yeah, Comma. However, Comma can kill anything on the continent with the correct load at the correct range. And the thing of it is is that the ability to if you just load up a full length to with double lot buck and ghost one onto the lifter, the ability to drop a half a pound let in somebody's lap as fast as you can racket or as fast as you can pull the trigger makes up for a lot of capacity limitation. People carry five and six shot revolvers to this day with the argument that well, the big magnet revolvers got more firepower than a nine millimeters, so they forgive the fact that it only has five or six shots. So capacity limited. Yeah, but not a deal breaker. But the big thing to me is that by changing the load you put in it, you can radically alter its characteristics to shoot close up versus a range. Absolutely, you can do a slug changeover and punch a slug out to fifty seventy five one hundred yards. As long as you're zeroed for it, trained with it not an issue. I can confirm that federal flight control out of Andrews thirteen oh one is a fist size hole at fifteen yards. It is scarily impressive. Yeah, And I mean my own experience has been about a one inch hole, about a one inch spread per yard. That's with like that's with just like millserp dirty Winchester double odd buck, nothing fancy, nothing, no flight control nothing. My my three hundred likes the dirty shitty double lot better than it liked the flight control. I had a couple really wild flyers at seven yards of flight control, and I think it's I think it's the choke they put in that thing. I need to get a choke set and play with that. I haven't. I haven't tried any flight to throw control through mind yet, but that's been about the experience I had. Is that just your your regular O nothing fancy double odd buck. I mean at ten yards it's at ten yards it's a about a ten inch circle. Which reasonable for home defense US. I mean, because you're not going to be making shots much more than ten yards for the most part. Yeah, And literally what I did was, before I went out to the range for the first time of that thing, I threw a tape measure from the refrigerator in the kitchen all the way down the hallway to where my bedroom is, like literally the longest continuous run in the whole house. And I've already forgotten what that distance was, but I set that distance out at the range, and that is the range. I zeroed the dot on the red dot to a slug, and then I fired a fair amount of double eyed buck at that range, and every one of those pellets lands inside the donor to death. And that's really you can't argue much better than that. I can tell you that. I can tell you that if I use the refrigerators as a backstop, I won't even upset my neighbors. No, probably not. Refrigerators are shocking, good, dude, All the installation at stopping small caliber rounds. Yeah, So yeah, I'm gonna say shotgun not dumb. Shotgun. Shotgun has some some things that work against it versus like a jeep show or an spr There are things you have to train to get the skill set to like quickly reload and handle them. You have to use the sites. Anybody that ever told you don't have to use sits on shotgun is a moron, Yes, but shotgun not dumb. Shotgun not dumb. So that's GPR and SPR not dumb, DMR, dm DMR, situational night vision, highly situational truck guns dumb bag gun, dumb shotgun not dumb. So shotgun never dumb. So that's that's like three out of seven not dumb. Mm hmm. Look, there's always going to be a situation where you can justify the most specialized of equipment. If that situation applies for you, applies to you, do it fine, but it better not be at the expense of something that applies to you more often. Yeah. Now, one other topic, I don't expect to take near as long, especially the AMO. Okay, so right off the bat armor piercing AMMO fun kind of dumb. Most of the people that you're going to be defending yourself from are probably not gonna be wearing body armor. Probably if they are, they'll probably be like soft arm or vests that they've gotten off of. Like TIMU or some shit. You don't tend to see a lot of guys doing B and e's in level four plates. Probably kind of knid. If somebody's doing a B and E we're in level four plates, you've pissed somebody off way worse than you should. They're probably a fed. Probably tracers, they work in both directions. They really only work well in fire teams. API API T. If you can get it, that's cool. It's probably in a larger caliber. Also kind of dumb due to the expense. Per bullet that you're going to be firing, and you probably again don't need the don't need the ap portion of it. Yeah. Incendiary Look, incendiary rounds are fun because you can set stuff on fire. They're also not fun because they set all kinds of shit on fire. Yeah, there's a reason why tracer rounds are barred at most outdoor and indoor. Ranges because they tend to set ranges on fire. So do incendiary rounds. That's kind of their job. Yeah, and I'll take a detour through shotgun land very briefly. Rubber bullets we've talked about multiple times before. The edge case where those actually make sense is phenomenally phenomenally row and does. Only in the Yeah, only really in the team setting. Yeah, only really in the team setting, and only with the only with the assumption that the person you're about to shoot you really really don't want to shoot. And that by itself is a very very small group of people. Yeah, most of which they are imaginary breaching rounds. I mean, I got a box. They're cool, they're they're useful, but would play with not a high priority for me, not a high priority. You know what else breaches a door really well? Double full of double lot, I will say, though, Or the one thing breaching rounds really excel at the double lot buck and slugs don't do well is they don't bounce back at you. That's the that's the real secret sauce of a breaching round is that it hits a door and it blows the door lock apart, and then it goes two and it goes into the pocket dimension without like smacking you back in the face with lead. I agree, And that's that's excellent, But so do most very fine bird shots. True, because at. The range you're engaging the door, it's acting as a solid projectile. And realistically, as a civilian, I am probably never going to be breaching a door with a shot highly unlikely unless it's for fun or in. A class, highly unlikely. I look, breaching and clearing rooms is for people on government healthcare. I am not. I don't know, given how much the government f's around in the insurance industry, Well that's fair. I might be on government healthcare. No, I'm pretty sure my healthcare is fully private, but they do dick around with it a lot. All right, So bulk match carry and subsonic bulk AMMO to me always has training, training first and foremost. But I've also been very upfront about the fact that, like in a weird enough situation, all AMMO is good. Like I don't care if it's Federal Gold Medal match or if it's Winchester White Box. If it goes bang and I really need somebody to stop doing something that's bothering me, it is, it is in. It is in the zone. We have reached the state of flow control. Like it is going to do what it needs to do, maybe absolutely not as well as it could. Maybe maybe not with the best accuracy or terminal performance, and it might blow your gun up. Everyone's in a blue moon for talking about Winchester a wolf. But nine nine times I have one hundred does what it needs to do. Match ammo if you are shooting for accuracy, for training or for competition. Absolutely not dumb said buying match ammo is expensive, and we. Did, we did, We did caveat this whole thing with saying self defense, I think, yeah, I think match ammo for self defense is kind of dumb. Yeah, it is. In my opinion, it is kind of dumb. The only time I could see a person arguing self defense is if you're saying that defending your live soccer predators is self defense because you're defending your income. Okay, fair enough. In that case, you're probably not using match grade ammunition, though you're probably using like hunting grounds or higher end hunting rounds, something with a soft point put down the game. Potentially, Match grade AMMO really only shines when you're like four or five six hundred yards out and further. Unless we're talking about like that weird to educate. Why we can call it educates, but like if you're talking about like seventy seven Grand match Kings and five five six, like the terminal effects of those at a variety of distances are very well known it's a very hard hitting round. Even though it's a match bullet, it does really wild things when it hits bodies. But I'm going to say that, like I could see that argue, but I'm going to say that, for the most part, you're probably better off either spending like a third the money on bulk ammunition and having three times as much of it, or you're better off with a premium defensive file round, something your law and would carry, or even like a semi good quality five to five sex varment cartridge that's meant to impact soft tissue and do tremendous damage. I mean, you're really getting the same functionality out of that or a defensive ami. Their purposes are very the same. The idea is to dump all the energy in a small area as fast as possible. Yeah, so carry ammo, and I'll also lump into this like your spirit gold dots in five five six, or like you know, like an ammunition that is primarily intended loaded, bullet designed and everything else with the intention of putting energy on target and not over penetrating. Not dumb. Someone earlier said hollowpoints are dumb, and I'm going to assume they were joking. But hollow points are the opposite of dumb, because the idea is that if the bullet manages to pass all the way through the target, then it's and it's still moving. That means you have energy that you could have imparted upon the target that you're not because the bullet maintenance energy through the target. If the bullet like it's like I always tell people, the perfect situation for a bullet is that it stops inside the target, somewhere preferably after it's penetrated about half the target. You want you want a wound cavity, you want a lot of ternal effect, you want a lot of tissue displaced. But you want the bullet to stop because if it does, that means all the energy in part was in part upon the target, and that tends to make people stop misbehaving. But it's the most efficient use of the energy provided. Yeah. Yeah, And you can extrapolate that any direction you want. You can go get like you know, federal flight control for your shotgun. You can get like you know, drawn a total freaking blank, federal hsts or federal hydroshocks for your handgun. You can go get spear gold the maximum expansion twelve gage solid monolithic copper projectile, whatever does whatever tickles your pitch turns into an inch and a half disc oof. Oh yeah, oof is. The correct answer. And i'll ninety n retention of the projectile weight. And I'll also throw one ounce slugs into that category. If you have a shotgun and you drop a slug on somebody like that is I'm not gonna say it's going to do more than double O buckwood, but it's gonna make an impression. Look, the nice thing about double lot is if you miss by a little bit, say your point of aim, some of the pellets probably still going to be hitting the point of aim. Well, the slug. If you miss your point of aim a little bit, the slug might miss critical critical components. Let's put it that way. Yeah, Stewart's saying seventy seven grain SMK is using the mark two sixty two for a reason, and I am forced to admit that in that one case, the Sierra match king in five five six makes a lot of freaking sense. But it's because it does almost more like a defensive round than a match round. It just so happens. It's a really really consistent bullet. Yeah, it just so happens. It's a very consistent bullet, and the hollow point in it that that leads that lends to its consistency, also helps its terminal performance. It's one of those bullets that is, yes, a match bullet, it's also a defensive a carry bullet. So now, subs, if you have a suppressor on a weapon you intend to use in a defensive capacity, say your home defense gun is a three hundred blackout with a can go forth and carry subs all of the subs. But if you like me, live in a state that is terrible and you can't have suppressors, subs are dumb. Use full velocity ammunition. I'm going to go one step further. Make your pistol a flashbang too. I'm going to go one step further. If you if in the pursuit of having a subsonic round, you cannot load that five load that ammunition at full power. It's dumb. So what I mean is like for the people who like have loaded like Subsonic three away Winchester, you have to download that that round a lot. Subsonic five five six, you have to download it a lot. You can't get full power. You can't give full full I mean, obviously you can't give full veiloscity because you're velocity limited. But you can't even push a heavy enough bullet to make up for the energy loss by the reduction of velocity. Three hundred blackout tilts things back in the other direction because you could put a really big, super heavy bullet in there and get your terminal effect from that. So when so like, if well. It's like nine milimeters going to one forty seven grains, you're automatically subsidutic. Or like two hundred and thirty or help one hundred and eighty five all the way to two hundred thirty grain forty five acp, you get tons of freaking weight behind the bullet because that's what forty five ACP does. You can load it at absolutely like burning the house down full power, and it's still subsonic. Go forth, do great things. But like, I just have to put that caveat in there that if to have subsonic you have to give up power, I'm calling it dumb. Yeah, I would agree, because at that point I would rather if you're if you're gonna be running a can, run a cartridge that is meant to be run with a can. Yeah, because my way of looking at it is like I would rather deafen myself and the assailant and flash bang both of us into oblivion. Look, my hearing is already broached, Yours will be too fine. Yeah, every I'm already deaf, and my wife and daughter hopefully are holding their earshut. So you're about to ride the lightning with me. We are both gonna hear ree for the next like two weeks on the back of this and this adventure. But I just I can't get behind the idea of like subsonic AMMO when it means you have to give up power. I just I can't if not for a defensive situation, it just doesn't make sense coming to come. No, I agree we could add suppressors to the list real quick. I mean, I don't think suppressors are due. I put them in the similar category with night vision. I don't know if I want to go that far. I don't think suppressors are dumb. I think suppressors make No, I don't think they're I don't. But I don't even think they're like super situational, because even if you're running supersonic gambo, they're still going to reduce the flash a fair bid, which. At time I was thinking about financially. Okay, so I was thinking about in the same financial category. If you have everything else sorted out and go get suppressors, I see which I see where you grab a suppressor if you can. I see where you I see where you're going. I mean, yeah, I would not. I would not prioritize. An expense in an added complication. But if you're already sitting on a pile of ammu, and you already have your training and everything else, then yeah, by all me, suppressors, suppressors home defense not dumb. I would love I would love to be able to roll a three hundred blackout with a suppressor for my home defense rifle. But instead, guess what you get a twelve gauge ghost loaded. Yeah. I was gonna say, like, so we're all gonna say the only thing that makes suppress that that's dumb around suppressors is just freaking like the laws around them. Oh that's no. The laws are very dumb around them, and my state makes it even worse. In fact that I'm pretty sure the only way you can legally own suppressors in my state is if you are an FFL of some of some form. So it sounds to me like gilrab is saying that the range day was really fun. I think she's alluding to the fact that for really suppressors, I mean suppressors. I actually just talked to my dad on Father's Day about the fact that, like he had mentioned that he was thinking about getting into suppressors, he has talked about it a while, and I kind of impart upon him. I'm like, Okay, if you're serious now, we need to get together with a local lawyer and get a family trust going, because I told my dad, I'm like, you and mom and me and Gillian need to be on that trust at a bare minimum. If there's not a I don't know if there's a legal implication. I'm sure there's a legal implication about like I couldn't add my daughter to the family trust, although why wouldn't I be able to? Eighteen and up? Okay, is most of the family trust requirements, to the extent of my knowledge, in my state, Louisiana, fuck Man, Louisiana is interesting in a variety of ways when it comes to our legal tradition. I will't have to inquire, but I told my dad, I'm like, blame the four of us need to be on a well, it's also Napoleonic code, which is a fair bit different than old then ye old English. Yes, blaming the French. Yeah, well you know, we did have some pretty cool carpentry projects, so there is that true. Yeah, I think it's stuff right now. Yeah, But anyway, I told my dad, I'm like, if you're seriously beginning suppressors, we need to sit down with a lawyer, get a family trust going for the four of us, potentially my younger brother if he wants to be party two with And I basically told my dad, I'm like, if you're serious, like, let's get the paperwork going because I would like to get some suppressed. It work takes a while. But but the problem, the problem with my dad and I have is is like anytime he leaves town for like a period of time, him I want to do a lot of vacationing their retirement. He's if he's gonna be out of town for like a couple of days, he's usually okay. But he's going to be out of town for like a while. He's been known to bring a lot of his far arms over to my house and drop him off just in case. Fair enough, And like I told Dad, I legally could not take custody of your NFA items unless we're on of trust together. Yeah. Yeah, And that's and that's really quite quite a downside to the way the NFA is structured and one of the bigger reasons why I. Personally think it needs to go. It's it is so poorly written and structured. It is designed to punish people for doing everyday tasks. The other thing I'll point out to my dad and like this was I think this might have had a bigger impact on him. And for those of you out there who play around then of a items, you should take this to heart. But on a point out to my dad, I'm like, here's the thing. If you buy this presser and it's only red shirt, you not only can I not take Cassie of it, but when you pass away, which will happen one day, your own wife cannot legally have Cussy of that thing. And is I believe supposed to notify the ATF and they will come and seize it from her at the moment of his passing. Yeah, because technically if she leaves the hospital goes home, she has now assumed possession illegally. Yeah. Now would they actually charge her, I don't know that. I'm sure it has happened at some point. I don't want to give the sons of bitches the satisfaction of putting a seventy something year old lady in jail, because these are the same mother bat motherfuckers that burned a whole bunch of women and kids to death and a building into Waco, Texas. I don't shot a pregnant woman carrying a baby. I don't have a lot of faith in their their governance, or their discretion. Put it that way. No, No, definitely not. I mean we've talked about this before. Just because it would look really bad and most prosecutors wouldn't bother doesn't mean you're not going to get an idiot every once in a while. Yeah. So anyway, that was what I told my dad. He's I'll keep up with him and see if it's something he really wants to pursue at this point or not. But I've pretty much told him like, either you and I need to go get this going, or my wife and I are going to go get this going by ourselves without you. Because like I've told you, and you can you can add people on to the trust later, but it would make sense to just go ahead and get everybody roped in in the same boat. We all sent all of our stuff off at the same time. But I've just told I've told Gilly, and like I want to get suppressors. I don't want to get them register just to me. I want her to be able to have legal custody of them as well. Yeah, it makes things, It makes life simpler that way with the trust. Yeah, okay, So specially firearms, are they dumb? Are they not dumb? Sometimes? The survey says three out of seven times specialty stuff is not dumb four out of seven times either marginally helpful or dumb. I think, at the end of the day, like what I'm always going to go back to and hang my hat on is just the idea that, like, you can specialize a firearm to some degree to meet specific needs without wildly sacrificing other things. Yeah, but the minute you start to get too far outside of the Van diagram, now we're in these weird little edge cases that don't make sense or only make sense in the weirdest situations, and now we are we're purposing firearms for things that are unlikely to ever happen, or we're going to be in every situation but the one we build that fire and for when we have that in oor hands. Yeah, unfortunately, but that's what you get. Yeah. So anyway, if you agree, you should leave comments on YouTube or on Rumble, or on Facebook, or you should check out Instagram, or you should come drop hate mail at our website. I'll make sure I forward it to the circular follow where I put all the hate mail. And if you would unless it's things for sale. If it's things for sale, it depends, it tends. If you're going to charge him a reasonable amount, I'll forward it to them. If you're going to give them a sweetheart deal when you screwed me on my PBS fourteen, then you can eat You can both eat dirt. I'm deleting that shit. Look, if you would like to upgrade to duels and I would like to upgrade to some division, we can make a three way deal here. I need duels like I need a hole in the head. I already have a Precision three o eight on hold for reasons, reasons that might resolve themselves in the next couple of months, but you know wonderful. Yeah, use the word might intentionally. Hey man, you gotta couch it. You can't get your helps up in this time. Also, I'll drop this little nugget right before we jump out of here. I was talking to missus matter of facts the other day. Raising Values is one hundred percent going to relaunch excellently. She actually looked forward to listening to right now. Right now she's going through like looking at some revisions to branding, logoing and everything else. At the same time Stuart made his thing for MOF, he also did a similar thing for Raising Values, which when that show relaunches, it'll be relaunching with new branding, new imagery, new intro, outro music. Ragglefrag was asking when I cannot say when we're working. It's not even a time thing at this point, Like oh, Gillian said, like wait eight weeks or something like that. Is she the one texting me right now? She is the one texting me. I don't think she realized that that was going to go after in the show, but it doesn't matter anyway. But it's not like we're waiting for a specific time or like for a two weeks or four weeks or whatever. She is waiting for the thing that took her away from podcasting in the first place to start to finally unwind itself. And the unwinding is starting to happen, like her feet are coming back down out of the stratosphere. She's getting she's getting some things in her personal life, our personal life, because you know she I wouldn't let her do I wouldn't let her take on the task she's taken on by herself without me being instantly involved to support her. Yeah, I'm so glad. It has taken like a lot of her time and one hundred percent of her energy to deal with this fro about the last year. So when she comes back to the MIC, I think in the near future, I can see, I can see the creative juices start and flow. Things are coming together. But it is going to be a it is going to be a different show because she's a different gillion And I'm sure everybody will I'm sure that you know, the audience that love that show will love it again, and I'm sure they'll come back, and I'm sure they will lean back on their heels at least once or twice like, oh my god, I didn't realize all this was going on because it's been a lot. Yes it has all right, well, matter of fact, is going to go out the door, especially two farms are not dumb. Sometimes they are, though, so don't over specialize for stupid stuff that is unlikely to ever happen. Bear in mind that most fights are ended in with a handgun inside of one magazine worth of AMMO, and nine times out of ten, it's much more important to have money in the bank and a fully funded emergency account that it is to have a safe full of guns that all do one thing each. But if you disagree, you can leave his hate mail and I'll make sure I delete it matter Peck's going to do or goodbye for body. Tonighter inger. Inger ingeringeringer inger inger inger inger Inger sh