Raising Values: Adoption

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Raising Values Podcast, where the traditional family talks.

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher and Spotify, and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You can support the Raising Values podcast through Patreon.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The Langillian are behind the mic, and we hope you enjoy the show.

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Raising Values.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Good morning everybody.

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now the camera is a little more off than I thought it was.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That's okay.

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll deal today, but I swear it's like we always, obviously we set up the camera and

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: everything the night before.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: We never leave it in the dining room.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like the clutter of leaving a whole studio in the dining room, but yeah.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're a little off today.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it is what it is.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That was weird.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Good morning everybody.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So obviously we have to talk about things coming up and things that are going on.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So again, your shirts are ready.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to head over to Southern Gals crafts and get some Raising Values merch,

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: that would help out Tiffany and Chris.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Chris.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I know, y'all, it was the first week of school and it's like I told my sister-in-law last

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: night there ain't no tired, like first week of school tired.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I moved from the couch a whole lot yesterday.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Piper came home from Friday and I found her like curled up in her bed 15 minutes

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_01]: after y'all got out.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: She went straight to her room and I thought maybe she was just decompressing, listening

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: to some music or whatever.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought she was changing.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Or changing out of her uniform and she didn't come out.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_00]: She didn't come out and she didn't come out.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, those teenage tired, let's take a nap after school, kicked in Friday.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And she was only in school twice, two days, Thursday and Friday this week.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I was back Monday and then the week before I was in the classroom a couple of days

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: just getting everything ready.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I'm tired.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited for tomorrow.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Tomorrow is my first Monday back for the year.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also my busiest day and so I'm anxious to see how that works out.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I see almost every single class tomorrow except for two preschool classes

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and the kindergarten class, but everyone else will filter through my room

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: at some point during the day tomorrow.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So tomorrow I will probably come home and collapse like she did on Friday.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But we'll see.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But the rest of my week is really good, so not that you need to know my schedule or anything.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm excited for this year though.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to be back in school.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to have structure and something to do every day, getting out of the house,

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_00]: getting my steps in, working my brain, working my muscles and body and having a task.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I work well.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I work better when I have a task and something to do.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I know that has nothing to do with today's topic, but it...

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: If we didn't get off topic at least a little bit, it wouldn't be a show.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And then of course, Prepper Camp is coming up.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So we are busy getting ready for that, Phil, Andrew and their new co-host, Nick Emerson.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you haven't listened to that episode, they announced that Nick was going to start part-time.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Him and Andrew will be part-time co-hosts with Phil.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's fun over on Matter of Facts.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Nick is just as much of a nerd and a geek as Andrew and Phil are.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So the conversations are gonna be full of all sorts of information, some things that you're just like,

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: okay, how do you know that?

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you know that?

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's see.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_01]: The struggle with Matter of Facts has always been the fact that when I started the show by myself,

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I started really looking for a co-host.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And then when I found Andrew and he and I got to be friends, we live on the opposite ends of the country.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So we've always done that podcast fully remote from the word go because we just had no choice.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I think we take for granted the fact that because you and I live together,

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, married and all that, like your co-host is here and we keep pretty much the same schedule

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: on the weekends. So it's never a question of like, hey, are you available at 10 o'clock

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: on a Sunday? It's like, yeah, I'm gonna be right here.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: But with Matter of Facts, Andrew and I had reached a point with my work schedule,

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: his work schedule, we really did need a third seat to have some additional flexibility in the

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_01]: schedule. And also because Nick just comes from totally different background than Andrew and I do.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, I feel like that's what makes a show work is shared experiences, but different

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_01]: few points, which is why this show works because shared experience, but you and I

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: like grew up totally different. We are polar opposites a lot of ways.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So there's that. That's that news.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Proper camp assets coming up. And then of course, our merch, if you wanted to support the show in

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_00]: any way and support Tiffany and Chris in their small business out of Alabama, you can definitely head

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: over and send the show notes that link is in the show notes. And you can see what's all available

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: for raising values and upcoming Matter of Facts merchandise. So getting on with it, we usually

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: keep a list of and we've talked about this before, we could keep a list of show topic ideas that we

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: want to talk about. Some things are redundant. We've talked about that before, but maybe there's a

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: different viewpoint or maybe we've experienced something different within that topic. So now

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: we're going to talk about it again. But this one has been on the list for a while. We had a

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: listener who's I haven't seen him in the comments yet. So maybe he's at work. Maybe he's not.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. Sometimes he listens while he's at work. But they adopted their son. And one of the

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: things that he asked us was, well, yeah, they ask us a lot of questions a lot of times. We've

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of been through that phase of our life. Their son is younger than Piper. And so

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: while we didn't adopt Piper, obviously, we've had we've been a parent to young children

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_00]: or young child. And so I am always, always willing to give my viewpoint and

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: share my story of what it was like to raise Piper in different ages and different times in her life

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and in my life and in your life. So if a parent ever wants to reach out and say, oh my god,

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm struggling with this. How did you do it? I will give my opinions and how we

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: struggled and then what worked for us and things like that. But one of the things that he asked us

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_00]: was, how do you talk about how do you suggest talking to your son about the fact that he's

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: adopted? And so we've kind of not that we struggled with this conversation because obviously

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_00]: hits home with us because Phil is adopted. His brother is adopted. My uncle is adopted. We have a lot of

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00]: family and a lot of friends who adopt or are adopted. I mean, even I teach with another

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: rabble at school. Her husband is the rabble who is adopted. He's adopted as well, which is kind

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: of crazy because people come up to me all the time. Is that your sister? Do you work

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: with your sister? And it's like, no, it's like my third cousin. But it's weird because

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: they're both rabblers. Our husbands are both rabblers, but they're both adopted.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And Sidenote, while we're talking about that, when he and I first met, it was through a mutual

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: it was through a co-worker of mine, a mutual friend of his. And she had jokingly referred to

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: us as cousins because we're both rabblers. There's enough of us around but not a ton

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_01]: of rabblers. And when we actually met each other, we started talking about where's your family from,

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: where's my family from because you can figure out how close we relate to rabblers or if you

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: trace their family history back about three or four generations and come to find out his grandfather

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and my grandfather grew up probably about five miles apart in two different little tiny little

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: towns in rural Louisiana. And yeah, my dad was pretty much like, yeah, I'll probably

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_01]: like fifth cousins. Like, yeah, you've never met each other. But if his grandfather and your

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: grandfather are the same age, we were that close to each other, you're not that far apart.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what we end up saying to each other because she still works in the

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_01]: preschool and I work in the elementary. And so didn't you work with her before me and him met?

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. Yeah. And the two of us were just kind of like, oh, we're related somewhere. I'm sure,

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, but anyway, so the students will ask us a lot of times how we're related is that your

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_00]: sister is that your cousin, whatever. And so we finally just started to say, oh, well, Lynn is my

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: third cousin. She's just like my third cousin. But it was weird because I taught her kids too.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I still teach one of her kids and it's like, oh, that's just like my fourth or fifth cousin.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I think Piper's got met too. Yeah, they she's well, of course, they did because the three

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: of them all have the same last name. So and they're all reasonably close to the same age and

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: go to school at the same school. But yeah, yeah, small world. But anyway, so today's topic is about

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: adoption. I don't know if you got any banners set up or anything or if we're just kind of

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: free flow in this one free flow. Yeah. So I don't know. So I guess then to

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: go back to what one of our listeners question was, was how do you talk to your kid about adoption?

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_00]: This is when I wish like maybe your dad or your mom were here or would like to pop in on the comments

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and kind of talk about their experience with two adopted boys. Yeah, well, I mean, and I can talk

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: from like my perspective as the the adoptee and I've had this conversation with our

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: listener too, like he and I talked about this. But I still thought it was good to talk about on the

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_01]: show because I'm sure he's not the only person that might come across this show that's in the

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: situation. Of course, I mean, it's it's not uncommon and it's not, you know,

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you have to think too, it's not just like going to an agency and adopting a child or whatever.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: There are grandparents who adopt their grandchildren. There's aunts and uncles who

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: adopt their nieces and nephews. I mean, families kind of take on these roles with children

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: within their families that need a different. And even sometimes if we get past like the legal

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: forms of adoption into like informal adoptions, you know what I'm saying? Like I have jokingly

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: where he said that we adopted one of our neighbors as kind of like Piper's third or fourth,

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, grandparent because it's the relationship that like we have together where

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_01]: she's called me in the middle of the night, you know, because like oh my sink is overflowing and

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll bolt over there and try to help her out. So like adoption takes on so many different forms,

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's most basic. What it really is is it's establishing a some sort of a relationship

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_01]: that was not there previously. You know what I'm saying? Like for a parent adopting a child,

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: you are establishing a relationship as parent child that wasn't already there. Or in the case of

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: like if you have a family member who's going through a hard time, you take them on maybe in

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_01]: a different capacity than you did before emotionally or even if this way care for them.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of the day, like to me that's all adoption is boiled down to its core is

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: your establishing a relationship, but potentially a long term or lifelong relationship.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes, I mean in your case, you were given up for adoption and so your parents,

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean that they wanted you like that that was that was a sealed deal kind of thing. And thank God

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: love you. But that I think you're you're talking about when you talk about our neighbor,

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: she's a friend, she's a very dear close friend. We rely on each other for a lot of things. And

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even if it came to the care of Piper, she would be one of those people, you know. But

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I think parents who adopt children who through whatever reason or whatever,

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: that's I think that's a little bit different. I think then you you're not just stepping into

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: a role, but I mean you are but you're it's so much more fundamentally different. It's a you're

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: a parent, it's you know, you may not have gone through the physical aspects of having your own

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: child, but that child is yours and you're responsible for every last little duty diaper and

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: snotty nose and tantrum and fit and happiness and whatever you're responsible for all of

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: those things making sure the child is fed medical insurance all you know, all that stuff. And so

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: that's not something that we would thrust on to our neighbor, so to say. But I get what you're

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: saying we've adopted her in such a way that she is like a close family member, maybe even

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: grandmother type. But it's different. So you take it away.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So like I guess your father in law is in the comments.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yes. So that is okay so my father in law.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was going to get to.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay well you go there. Okay, I'm going to be quiet because I really don't have all the

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: experience about this. I just have opinions.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So like my experience being being the child that was adopted and this is the thing I've

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: told not just our listener but like I've told lots of other people who are considering

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: adopting or have adopted. I think most people would fall victim to thinking like the way it was

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_01]: done with me is the best way but I truly having talked to people and like unpacked this emotionally,

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the absolute best way to deal with like adopting a child is to tell them from the

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: word go that they are adopted. That's what your dad said in the comments.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You tell them they are adopted from day one.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. I think that's important because like I've talked to people who didn't know they were adopted

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: until later in life and it is kind of a shock whereas I feel like the way my parents handled

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: it with me was like I knew I was adopted before I knew what the word meant. Like my earliest

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: memories are of knowing I was adopted by my parents and like to me there was never a shock

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_01]: involved. It was always I just I knew what I think is super important to point out though at this point

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_01]: is like it wasn't just that I knew I was adopted, it was the tone they used with the word adopted.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying? Like it was so the way that they couched the conversation,

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: the language that was used, the tone that was used, it was always to communicate that adoption

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_01]: was a good thing. Yeah. Because like think back to your earliest most formative memories,

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_01]: you may not be able to latch on to the things that were specifically said but you remember

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the emotions. You remember feeling safe or feeling scared or you remember your emotions and like to

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_01]: me my emotions always revolved around adoption being a positive thing. It was never a your mother

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_01]: didn't want you she gave her she got rid of you it was always she wanted you to have a better

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: life she let us adopt you. So it was I think that's super important first of all is so that you always

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: phrase it in such a way that adoption is a positive and you always phrase it as like

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: you know like we really wanted to be your parents so that it's never a well we just want

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: a random kid and you were the one that was available like you know we're picking puppies

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: at the pound but it's I think the way you phrase that to that that young child can set

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_01]: a foundation that will you know that will shape how they view them being adopted for life and I feel

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: like if you lay that foundation appropriately then that child never views adoption as a bad thing

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: they never view themselves as being unwanted or unloved and then you know later in life yeah you

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: might have to have some hard conversations with them about why they were given up for

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: adoption but my hope would be that by the time you get to that point in the conversation

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: they're old enough mature enough to like absorb some of it you know I'm saying like whether it was

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_01]: an ill time done in one pregnancy whether it was whatever whatever the cause for that child being

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: given for adoption but I still think that like if you lay that foundation of we wanted to be your

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: parents and your mother let us adopt you so that we could raise you as ours I feel like

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that is like the absolute best way to to start that conversation with your child yeah I think too

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_00]: when you put it like that at least in my heart to hear that somebody I mean because adoption can

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: come with a negative you know you do have that well why didn't my mom want me why didn't my dad

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_00]: want whatever that can it can come with that but on the flip side you have two people who

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: like picked you you know what I'm saying like intentionally went out and was like

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I want Phil I want this child this is my child and and I know that this is my child

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: sorry excuse me and it that doesn't take away from like well you know I I had a natural birth with

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Piper and that is my child I didn't pick her does that make sense like uh I'm not making sense and

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: words are words are hard I'm not trying to say like you were on a shelf and your parents was

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: like that one I want the brown eyed kid over there with the blonde hair he had blonde hair

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: by the way I didn't say it I wasn't even thinking it I was just thinking about the blonde haired little

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_00]: boy with the bowl cut um I think the intention of adoption in its core is just so um it's just

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: it's like one of the biggest my brain okay it's just like one of the biggest balls of love

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_00]: you know what you are you have so much love um as a parent that you you want to give to a child and

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and and you're given that opportunity for instance with you and with Michael your brother

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_00]: your parents had so much love that they just they had to get they had to give to their their

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_00]: child and it was almost like um mom dad I'm sorry I'm trying really hard with my words

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I know you're listening and going what the hell is she saying

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: it was almost like uh and correct me if I'm wrong you knew Phil and Michael were your

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: children those were your sons that those were your boys they they have always been your boys

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: from the moment they took their first breath whether or not they came into this world from

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: another woman those were your children those were your boys does that make sense am I making sense

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_01]: it makes sense I um you know I would also say that like that is I mean it really should go without

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_01]: saying but just in case just in case it doesn't like you know my parents never treated me like

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_01]: anything less than if I was their flesh and blood which is the way it should it's it's the

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: way it should be and it shouldn't have to be pointed out but just in case it does need to

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: be pointed out like that that is that that should be a central theme to adopting is like this is

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_01]: this is your child now and you know the way I've always phrased and I'm just specific to

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01]: adoption but to like raising children in general is like you know my perspective on like my child

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: is whatever she accomplishes in life I would like to think is going to be partially because

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of the springboard you and I set up to propel her in the life so every every good habit her work at

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: that her intelligence everything that she developed that we're working to develop in her as a child

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_01]: that propels her towards greatness as an adult I like to think a little bit of that is you know

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_01]: we're responsible for a little bit of that we're responsible for putting on that path to

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_01]: do whatever she wants to do yeah and I feel like with adoption that plays out I mean

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't get to pick the genetics of your child you could argue we don't get the next bar child either

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_01]: but at least with our at least with our biological child like you and I can look at her and be like

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_01]: there's there's physical and personality traits that you and I are very much like oh yeah that's a

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that's a rabble or that's a house but when in the case of adoption like the thing that you will

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: contribute to this child is the things that you teach them and you will mold this child into your

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: own image emotionally and psychologically if not exactly physically so like I guess my point of

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_01]: view is it's like you you and I joke all the time about how I'll I'll just let her roll out

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: be like you know what your father-in-law would say at a moment like this I was I was about to

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_01]: go down this road yeah but the thing of it is that after after 19 years of being with me and

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_01]: knowing my dad is there any shock some of the opinions I hold the things that I'd say that

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the way I approach certain things no it's because that's the man that raised me and that that was

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_01]: my that was kind of like my framework for husband father man yeah so because it needs to be

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: talked about and this has always been a controversial topic in this family

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: um when Phil came home from Iraq despite what the the rumors were when Phil came home from

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Iraq he had a lot of questions and I would assume that most adopted people do I know talking to my

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: uncle after his mom passed after grandma passed away he had a lot of questions of well what is

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_00]: my history where what is my you know birth family like what what and so whatever so Phil came home

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_00]: from Iraq we talked about getting married he wanted to find his birth family just to answer some questions

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and so we set out to do that and a lot of our conversations after we found his birth mom

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and his half brother and sister started to revolve around nature versus nurture

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and what we were seeing with maybe what were some hereditary traits that were within Phil and what was

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: nurtured into Phil not I guess into is not the right word but into I know what you're saying by his

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: parents um and there obviously there were some things there besides the physical like the

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: you know physical of looking like people in your birth family um but what what started to really

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_00]: emerge as we kept going down this road with birth family with your birth family was

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: so many traits and characteristics started to not align and match up and so that same

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation of nurture versus nature really started to flip on its head and we started to realize

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: because like I said there were some things there were some characteristics and traits that were

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously your birth mother um but they were they were so small in comparison to the things that

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_00]: you were received from your parents that you know yeah you I mean I I probably hear about my

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_00]: father-in-law at least three times a week um and then we hear about my mother-in-law

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: probably about the same especially when you're in the kitchen baking with piper or

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: things like that and you know he talks about you all the time you don't know this but

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you're actually raising piper but what what I'm trying to say is you know we started to do some

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: comparisons we had some we had a lot of long deep conversations like really deep conversations about

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: where we wanted to take this and where you wanted to take this and how much of your

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: birth family did we want to have in your life or our lives and how much you know where did

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: those lines skew and then where were they like firm and things like that obviously things played out

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and we started to see I am we started to see just how how much you know the direction we wanted to take

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I think what happened was like to your point you know I I wanted to find them more than anything

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: else like you know and like I've said before like and I would again I would couch this to

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_01]: anybody that watched this who has an adopted child who does eventually want to go try to

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_01]: track down their biological parents like for me it was never because I wanted to replace my parents

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_01]: they're they've taught me giving me everything it was really more I don't know another word for

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: other than curiosity like I just I wanted to know where I wanted to know like that part of where

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I came from because this part being a rabble there's no there's no mystery to that like

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I've grown up in this family I've grown up with these people everything that I've ever learned

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: has been from them but there's still this little chunk that I didn't know and

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: there's still a little chunk I will never know my biological father side of the family yeah

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: still don't and we still don't know what the true story there it is but at the end of the

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_01]: day it's really your biological father but at the end of the day like I I needed to know almost

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_01]: like to just put it out to put it to bed and when we tracked them down yeah there were

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I went into that with some preconceived notions of like nature versus nurture

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and I don't know that I have fully put the bed that whole debate and you know

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: you when you were in uh Costa Rica with my half sister not too long ago

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: so was it you or was it Ross's sister that said I made the comment okay Gilley made the comment

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that went her and becker together like she never feels like she's far away from me because apparently

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_01]: the the cadence at which we speak is the same well it's not just that but a lot of y'all's

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: mannerisms are the same yeah and and bear in mind like this is my half sister that

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: we've only we've only known her well at this point it's been about 15 years yeah

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: well probably maybe longer than that but my point is we didn't grow up together right like I I had

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: already been on this earth and been with my family for over 20 years before I ever met her

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and I never grew up with the family she grew up with or the in the environment I did

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and yet there are aspects of our personal of our mannerisms that are so closely aligned it's shocking

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and yet in spite of that in a lot of ways we're very different which I think that that's that's

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_01]: always going to be the debate of like nature versus nurture is like the parts of me and her

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: that are very similar and yet very very different but I was going down a road with this

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and then I lost it you had a gillian moment I had a gillian moment I have that you're rubbing off on me

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_01]: but anyway to your point about nature versus nurture like what the thing that we

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_01]: realized as we went down that road was that there was some some very serious misalignment

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_01]: between our family to include you know your in-laws my parents and that family

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_01]: so it got it got to the point where like you know and it's not it was never personal it was never

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: malicious like I hate you and everyone to speak to you again but it was just a

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: like I remember having had that conversation with my biological mother at one point and I'm like

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: she was upset because like I wasn't like calling in texting her every couple of days

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and I was like point of order I don't talk to the parents that raised me every couple of

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_01]: days and it's not because I hate them it's because I'm a highly independent person I'm very focused on

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_01]: this little family right here which is again the way I was raised right I was gonna say which

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: is what your dad and mom would say is this is your focus and I think that is what your dad said to

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_01]: us when we were getting married what my dad said to you when we were getting married is

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_01]: exactly what he said to me I couldn't tell you how young I was but I remember being a

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: fairly young I remember being fairly young and him firmly establishing his expectation that if I ever

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_01]: decided to get married the day I am he was very frank with me I'll always be your parent I'll

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_01]: always be your father I'll always be here for you but the day you get married that's your family

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_01]: because that is now your responsibility and you don't get to shirk your responsibility

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: because you're worried about me and your mom we're we're adults we're gonna take care of

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_01]: ourselves you have to focus on your family and then one step past that was if y'all decide to

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_01]: have children guess what that's another responsibility so like this idea that like I had to call somebody

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_01]: every three days so that they knew about that I cared about them was like it was a serious

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: misalignment you know I'm saying like I don't want to I don't want to sound cold like

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't have a person that that clingy in in my in my life but like it just it very it illustrated

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: one of those really big gaps between me and that family and I was just like I don't operate that

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: way I've got a job and a career and a 401k and savings and plans and things I'm trying to do

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_01]: here and a podcast I produce and another one that I host and you know like I've got

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I have all these things that are in my daily hourly world chief of those is you and our daughter

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and I don't have I didn't I didn't have the room for a person who needed that much constant

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_01]: reassurance that like yeah you know I was still here and okay yeah but it and that's just like

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: one example it goes so much further than that it was just at the end of the day you know I had

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_01]: a short enough the apron strings a little bit but the thing I would going back to what I'd said

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: initially I would always try to remind the parents who have that adopted child like

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_01]: if you've truly like put your heart and soul in a raise in this child they're not trying

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_01]: to replace you why would they try to replace the only parents they've ever known with two

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_01]: strangers that they didn't grow up with but it really is and I wish I had better words

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: to describe it but it really is it really truly is like this this just deep seated hard to put your

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: finger on it it's like there's a hole there's something missing there like I just I had to know

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and now that I know I'm like okay I am emotionally at peace I can move forward

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_01]: but I would say that like for people who grew up with their biological parents or even if

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_01]: even if it was like a child that was adopted by family members you would least

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: know because that you have some link to your biological family but for a child who's adopted

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: by a completely separate family like yeah that's that's that will potentially be

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_01]: a hole that they're going to have to fill sooner or later and not all because I know other

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: children who were adopted who have no want whatsoever to find their biological parents

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah but that is such a highly individual thing that if they choose to I would just say

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you know help them if you can give them the grace to go look if you can't

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_01]: just understand that like they're not trying to replace you yeah I certainly wasn't trying

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_01]: to replace my parents I mean my parents did everything for me right and like and asked and

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_00]: like thinking about the conversations conversations I've had with my uncle who's adopted

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00]: probably a lot of parallels there well there are he for the longest time probably until the last

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know six seven years had no interest and he's he said a lot of the same things why would

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I go find two people who didn't do anything in my life why would I why would I and he said give

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe he didn't say give up but why would I go out and search for something when I have this

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I have my parents who gave me this life and you know I'm happy here whatever why would I do that

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think his his mentality on that his thought process on that changed when his mom gave him

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_00]: permission on her deathbed was like you really need to go do this you know I know who they are

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_00]: at least knew she at least knew who her his mother was it by name or whatever

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and and I don't think my grandmother ever kept it a secret on purpose it wasn't like she kept it

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: a secret because she didn't want him to go out and look I think she probably gave him those

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: opportunities throughout his life and he just was like I don't want to that's that's not

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: something I'm interested in but then he did become interested in it and you talk about that whole

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_00]: he had questions he wanted to know you know where where do I come from what are my parents like do I

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: have other family members whatever so he went out on that journey as well ended up finding both his

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: mother and father found out he has half half siblings just like you do um that his family a lot of

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_00]: his family members blood family members are live close enough that he can go and visit them

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and um they hang out sometimes and things like that but the same the same story that you tell is

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_00]: the same one that he tells are they family yeah by blood their family will they ever replace anyone

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_00]: in there in his family absolutely not does he call them you know did they step into roles of

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_00]: like this is my aunt and this is my uncle yeah and the the really cool thing is they have

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_00]: there's been a lot of family functions that they have started to come to you know um I don't know

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_00]: how my grandparents would have reacted if he had done this when he was younger right now I think my

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_00]: grandfather is just like oh you do have another father can he help pay for this can he help help

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: you do that I don't know I don't think um I I don't think puffle feels threatened at all um by that

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_00]: but he's also 91 years old too so um but you know you tell the same story that he does there there

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_00]: was just this curiosity this this these questions that needed to be answered and I think you both

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_00]: went into that um search you know down this journey of trying to figure out where some of your personality

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_00]: comes from you know answering some of these questions that y'all had and you found those answers

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and you were still like cool I get it I know where that comes from now I see it in that person

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_00]: or I see it in this person or whatever but you both still were like do we have the same DNA

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_00]: in a lot of aspects yes but my family's here this is my family these are my parents these are my aunts

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and uncles these are my cousins these are the people I grew up with this is this is my family

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_00]: well I are we like are you really my aunt and uncle yeah and and there there's never been this

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_00]: because there are people on your side your birth family side that um well hang on I'm trying to think

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I really don't talk to anybody on your birth family side except for Rebecca um anymore and

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that's because she lives here she's one of my best friends she's married to your best friend

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_00]: you know that and she's Peppers favorite aunt sorry Phoebe but um you know she

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_00]: she's come into our life and I think for the for the betterment I think we needed

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Becca in our life and I think she needed us in her life but um I don't think we really talked to

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_00]: many people we used to attend functions but that just became really awkward and weird and

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_01]: we stopped going um well and I think I would like to say through no fault of any ones

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the problem there was that like there were people in that family

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_01]: that wanted us to be like in the fold because they'd been waiting for me to pop back up on the radar

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_01]: since they since I was given for adoption and then there were other people in the family that

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_01]: were like you know they were polite but it was very obvious that like you don't belong here yeah

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_00]: we do kind of feel like that and a lot of from a lot of people and again nothing was ever

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_01]: said overtly but it was just I felt it you know like even the the seclusion and you know

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and even even down to basic things like just I just didn't know the the two of us and even the

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: three of us when Peppers weren't we didn't fit in yeah it was it was not it wasn't my family

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah and a lot of that is just the fact that like I grew up very differently in a very different

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: environment and I grew up with people who like they encouraged me to be so much more of a free

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_01]: thinker and a critical thinker than a lot of what I was finding it was it was just it was so

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_01]: it was so difficult to integrate it was I feel like if there'd have been a little bit closer

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: alignment between that family that family's like comfort level with us and other families

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_01]: wanting us to be like in the middle of that family I feel like if that was a little closer

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: alignment it probably would have worked a little better but you know biological mother

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_01]: wanted to parade me around as her long lost son and the rest of the family was like we

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_01]: don't know who the hell this is like here this is a 25 year old man none of us know yeah

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and I don't know for however however that wound up happening the way it did I mean I think I

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_01]: think the reason why Rebecca you know has has kind of fit with us and us with her so well

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_01]: is because like we we really took each other kind of where we were and as we were and we

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_01]: built a relationship you know what I'm saying there was never an expectation that like well

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_01]: we're half sibling so we're just going to be like we have yeah all this shared history together it was

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_01]: really a no I have no I know I know who you are but I don't know who you are so I'm going to learn

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: who you are and over the course of me and her you know like building that bond together

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah there are things that she and I 110% do not see eye to eye on and never will as long

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_01]: as we live I love her to death we just don't we're very we are both fiercely independent

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_01]: individual people but we built that relationship together it was never assumed to be there and

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I feel like again if you if you're in that boat of being the adoptee who does go

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_01]: look for the biological family like that's something that I would impress upon the adoptee

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_01]: in the family that gave them up for adoption of you cannot go into this assuming there's this bond

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's it's not yeah there's no you know like like there is no bond there there is no relationship

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_01]: if you want there to be a relationship you have to build it and work at it and you have to take

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_01]: you have to take that or a person where they are because if they live 60 it's six states away

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_01]: they have a big family big social life if they're if they're being pulled to 15 different directions

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_01]: already and you expect them to drop all that to pay attention to you that relationship is going to

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_01]: grenade it's just going to grenade I think that's part of the reason why your uncle and

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_01]: his biological family have kind of come together because I've noticed that they're they have some

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_01]: similarities you know I'm saying they're they're all very much go over the flow call me whenever

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_01]: you get a chance no pressure no expectations like and frankly like you and I've met them they're just

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_01]: really not they're really genuine people like they're the kind of people that you don't ever have to

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_01]: wonder if they're bsing you because it's not in their nature they're just gonna tell you the way it is

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but those are the two things you stick your head into when you go look for your biological

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_01]: family is you don't you don't know what's waiting on the other side this is the same reason why like

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_01]: we've discussed me putting some more effort in tracking down my biological father and I'm at a

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_01]: point now where I'm like he could be the greatest man on earth but I have no emotional will to

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_01]: at this point yeah like at this point I'm 41 years old beating down the door to 42

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: there is nothing but a couple of emails where we're gonna or text messages we'll ever exchange

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_01]: together like there is if there may not he may not want to have a relationship with me I don't know

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that I want to have a relationship with him or even speak to him I just well and I think that that

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_00]: that whole thing there's a lot of questions now after you know talking to your sister and

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you know things like that there's just a lot of questions that we'd have to uncover first

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_00]: to make sure things are but we have gone down that road there was a time when

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Piper had to go in for surgery and we had no medical history of thing you know how they ask

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_00]: you know who has this in your family who has that in your family well that is one thing that we

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_00]: found came out of you being adopted is we didn't have the medical history so we we didn't know

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_00]: how to answer those questions and then of course I have this little child who's going

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_00]: in for very minor surgery very very minor surgery but my mama brain is going well I don't know I

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know I don't know the answers to this what what could happen what if it she has something

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_00]: hereditary or blah blah blah so we reached out you know we we did all sorts of research to

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_00]: try to find this man tracked the name down to where he lived and all that stuff and then

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_00]: you know me I you know could work for the FBI on Facebook ended up tracking this man's

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_00]: the name of the man that we found we I ended up tracking his two grandsons he it was the strangest

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_00]: thing they played football for southeastern which is where we went to school it's you know the

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_00]: next town over um contacted both of them one of them was like this is a little creepy and the

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_00]: other one was like yeah I'll talk to my grandfather and see what he says and he did and he talked

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_00]: to this man and this man said I don't know what the hell you're talking about I don't have a son

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have I don't know this woman you know I I don't know this woman the name that I was giving

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: over your your birth mother I don't know and so I'm sitting there going either he has really

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_00]: he's telling the truth he has no idea who you are that that you really are not his son

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_00]: or birth son or the story that we were given is not true you know one of those things it has to be

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_00]: one of those things and so um everything kind of went cold at that point um I stayed friends on

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Facebook with the grandson um but never we nothing ever came to fruition so we she went into

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_00]: that surgery you know me praying and hoping that um there wasn't anything hereditary there

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously there isn't but um well there wasn't anyway but that's the you know that's the one

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_00]: thing that we've kind of run into is there are more questions I have questions but they're not

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_00]: my questions that you know if this is something that you don't want to pursue I certainly

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_00]: am not going to pursue it with you know outside of what you want kind of thing well and I think the

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_01]: big difference there is that like at least and again this is just like me personally there was

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_01]: interest in tracking down my biological mother's side of the family because I at least knew based

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_01]: on conversations I'd had with my parents that you know she was communicative with them she

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_01]: wanted to be involved she apparently had reached out through the adoption agency to like try

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_01]: to get some updates on how I was doing so I felt like okay obviously there's a person here who has

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_01]: some interest in my life but on the biological father side we've got nothing so I'm kind of like

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_01]: this was worth pursuing because I knew there was something there whether it was going to come

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_01]: to anything or not there was something there at least they're here to investigate but on the

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_01]: biological father side of family I again he could be the scumbag in his family and the

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_01]: rest of his family could be the best people on earth I don't know but I know that there's been

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_01]: no nothing I've ever seen has given me an indication that my biological father thought of me knew of me

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_01]: or cared and at that point I'm like why do I even want to meet that person yeah why do I even

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_01]: want to meet that person but again I am one individual and another child who's adopted

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_01]: could have very different emotions they could say I have to know so that I can put this out of my mind

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_01]: you know even if that search ends up in a tombstone at least then I know

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and so to kind of take this on another track I don't believe in chance I believe that everything

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_00]: happens for a reason where we know we're guided down these different paths because

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_00]: there has to be something that has to come from that had you not looked for your birth mother

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you would have never met your birth sister your half sister yeah had that never happened

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_00]: she would have never come here and met your best friend they've been married for 10 years

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_00]: you know like I mean what sometimes I think about this especially now that we've become so

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_00]: close to them what would have happened had you not reached out to try and find this woman

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_00]: would they have found each other to get married would would that have ever happened kind of thing so

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_00]: yes you had questions yes you you were interested in finding the answers to your questions and

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_00]: things like that and so you had you had a plan and you you found her but out of finding her

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_00]: came this whole other family that you know happened because of that here's what'll really

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_01]: make your noodle if I hadn't sent home a bunch of pictures of me from Iraq to a

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_01]: relatively small handful of friends I was keeping in touch with then my picture would have

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_01]: never been on Amanda's fridge and we may have never met oh I know don't even get me started

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_01]: on all of that because that's the life I live in the cosmos throws a die that has an infinite

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_01]: number of sides to it to determine how things are supposed to play out like to use a Dungeons

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Dragons analogy this is not a d20 this is d infinity what I'm just saying like I don't understand that

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_01]: but okay I'm just saying that like when you talk about like if this hadn't happened this wouldn't

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_01]: have happened this would happen I'm like how many times has one one little thing gone one

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_01]: week in the system yeah and that sentence down this path yeah but no I mean I yeah that

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_01]: that relationship would have never been and there's no telling where those two lives would have gone

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_01]: otherwise but anyway anyway anything else about adoption that's well I guess I'll throw this in

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_01]: just kind of try to balance this conversation now because I've talked about largely from my

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_01]: perspective being the adopt the adopted child because that's who I am but there was a time before

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_01]: there was a time when you and I discussed the two of us adopting like we wanted to have our own

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_01]: children yeah by logic our own biological natural born children but we did discuss we really want

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_01]: to be parents and if for some reason that's not possible we had talked about adopting which

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of went into with I guess I don't want to say a more informed opinion I don't want to say

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_01]: more informed opinion than most people because like of my own history but like I went into it I

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_01]: guess with the expectation that like if we decided to adopt like I already kind of have a framework

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_01]: for how to discuss this with that child that I think works because it worked for me yeah and

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know it wasn't something the two of us ruled out never there are still times where

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_00]: every now and then you'll see something maybe on Facebook or Instagram but it's a it's usually

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_00]: a picture of a child or a child and their siblings or whatever it's a group of children that have

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_00]: been in the system for so long and they really just this is they really just want a family and

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_00]: so they post a picture and then my brain starts going could we could we adopt these two children

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_00]: or could we adopt those three children give them a home that they really need or this this little boy

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_00]: who's been in the system for 10 years and he just really wants a mom and a dad and you know

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_00]: could that be something that we do I still go down that road I don't ever really talk to you

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_00]: about it because then you're gonna be like no we have one that we can afford we really don't

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_00]: need to have any more but I still think about that there was a time and especially growing

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_00]: up that I um I always questioned like I always had a feeling like I wasn't going to be able

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_00]: to have children well I truly feel that Piper is my miracle baby I we lost our first pregnancy

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I was afraid that I wasn't going to the Piper's pregnancy was so high risk

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_00]: that you know we weren't sure if it was going to go to term and things like that

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_00]: so I don't know I've always just had this feeling like even though I wanted four children I wasn't

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_00]: going to be able to have children and when we when I miscarried the first time

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_00]: all of those fears like you know rushed back up I knew it I wasn't going to be able to have children

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_00]: whatever and so I've always considered adoption even when I was really young and

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_00]: you know I don't know if girls always think about that but you know I always thought

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to have to adopt my children but luckily that didn't happen we ended up having

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Piper so that was really good but I don't know that's just something that I always thought about

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and something that sometimes I still think about of could we do that you know there's

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_00]: here's this little boy or this little girl that really needs a mom and a dad and I think we have

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_00]: our our stuff together enough that we could bring in another child into this this family

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_00]: but I don't know we never go through with it because it's just not something that I think that we should

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I think from my perspective like I felt the pull to want to be a father

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel that pulled to be a father a second time do it again yeah it and it could also

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_01]: be the fact that like you know you're 40 I'm 41 yeah now eight nine years ago when Piper was

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_01]: younger like I don't know I think if the first pregnancy hadn't been as high risk as it was

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_01]: we would have probably made some different decisions but like my my biggest fear that I've

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I've expressed to you before was that like if we try for a second one I might be raising both

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_01]: these kids by myself because you might not make it yeah they're yeah so I was obviously only

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_00]: destined to have one child physically one child and emotionally mentally one child like that was all

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_01]: my body could do yeah and you know at the end I know that like that's that might be a whole

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_01]: another episode to get into but I think we've talked about that yeah but at the end of the day I was

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_01]: always just like the same way you said that like we're put on a path and we're guided through

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_01]: other things that we have to do like I took that as whatever you believe governs the cosmos and the

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_01]: world around us I believe was communicating to me loud and clear like hey but you got one be happy

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_01]: with her yeah oh absolutely you know like I am I am trying to gently tell you this is your limit

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_00]: don't push me well and yes this is probably another episode but um you know you get when

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_00]: you have only one child sometimes people want to insert their opinion about how well she's an

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_00]: only child isn't she gonna be sad that she doesn't have siblings isn't she lonely and blah blah blah

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_01]: blah she's not by the way she don't you want more she cringes at the idea of if we had if she had

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_00]: had a brother or sister yeah she's definitely totally fine being an only child totally 100

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_01]: percent fine being an only child I think I think you and I were like half joking one time and asked her

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_01]: like so how would you feel if mom and I had another child and she started crying she's oh I remember that

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_00]: she did she did she started crying and she did not she was not one of brothers she did not

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_00]: want a sister she did not want a sibling at all she just wants dogs and cats yeah yeah so um but

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_00]: there there came a point where you know I so I started to say no we're one and done one

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and done one and done one and done but people still want to insert themselves and not knowing and

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I will say this because I try to tell this to people all the time never ask a couple like a newly married

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_00]: married couple a newly married couple or just a married couple or just whatever a couple when are

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_00]: you gonna have children when is the first baby coming well when are you gonna have more babies

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_00]: when are you gonna have another one because you don't know the painstaking

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_00]: issues that they have had you don't know the emotional loss you don't know the physical

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_00]: loss that those people have been through maybe that woman has taken over a thousand shots to get

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_00]: pregnant and she cannot get pregnant she cannot have a baby maybe like me she almost bled out on

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_00]: the table and died and physically was changed after having a baby and physically should not have

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_00]: another baby and so after years Piper being four or five six sometimes I would have people ask me

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_00]: well when's the next one coming when are you gonna have the next one not realizing and this is

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_00]: through and you went through just to have that one that I started to say I can't have children

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot have any more children and I remember the look on one person's face it was like

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_00]: all of the blood drained and they understood oh crap I shouldn't have asked that question

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_00]: because I was just like you you get on my soapbox this is another episode this is another

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_00]: talking I'm gonna record it and we're gonna no we've talked about this I think this that would be a

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_00]: redundant episode anyway I know I've said that a couple of times on the podcast before but anyway

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_00]: redundant is her favorite word it's the word of the day or it's the word of the podcast

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Sesame Street now yes every time the word redundant is said you have to cheer anyway

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I I think we've answered the question we've obviously answered the question personally

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_00]: with our listener who asked that one about adoption and speaking to your child about them being adopted

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know do you have anything else to say from your perspective as an adoptee

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_00]: no I mean anything in the comments from your mom and dad about one last little

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_00]: negative information to share with our listeners well just this one that dad dropped earlier that

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_01]: we were kind of mid conversation but he said you generate that positive image before the outside

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_01]: world can cast any negativity on being adopted which I think is what I was trying to say initially

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_01]: was it like I no one could have no one could have convinced me even as like a young child

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_01]: you weren't wanted you weren't loved because like I knew better yeah so I think and that is that is

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of an across-the-board lesson for like how to armor your kids up against bullying and the

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_01]: world in general is you know that armor is them feeling secure and them feeling loved and them

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_01]: feeling secure in themselves and like you build that child up so that no matter how nasty the

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_01]: world gets they're prepared to deal with it and is in so far as like the topic of adoption just

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_01]: understand that yeah there are kids out there that are little a-holes but if they come up knowing

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_01]: my parents love me the person who gave me for adoption loved me enough to carry me a term

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and let this family who's awesome adopt me if they go into that situation knowing all that

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_01]: they've at least you've at least like built a solid foundation that they're not going to come

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_01]: out the other side of that interaction feeling a certain way about being adopted right but the

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: best thing I know that's everything we've talked about here is like that's the best I could tell

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_01]: this list our list our listener our patron specifically and just anybody in general is like

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah there's there's a there's a lot of emotions tied up in adopting and in being adopted

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and some kids are going to want to try to track down their biological families later and if you

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_01]: if you are comfortable and confident the fact that like you've bonded with this child I would

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_01]: ask that they'd not be threatened by that well within bounds to want to protect your child

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: from these strangers that they're about to meet because I know that there was also a

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_01]: little bit of that with my parents when we went to meet my biological mother's side of the family was

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_01]: we don't know these people we don't know anything about them and I want to make sure that my son

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_01]: my son is safe and I think that's well within balance just understand that like

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: to to your uncle's point like he felt he probably felt initially like if I go looking

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: for a my biological family I'm replacing my parents and I don't that was never my intention

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's most adoptees intention you can't replace you can't replace 40 50 60 or even

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: just 20 or 30 years of a bond with a family with blood right blood might be thicker than water

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but nothing is thicker than the people who teach you how to be who you are right

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_01]: so if we want to have a nature versus nurture conversation like I'd have to invite back over

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: here and that would be boy that'd be interesting it'd be a fun show all right guys well thank

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: y'all for joining us today and um yeah that was good show good show oh boy um we hope you

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: have a great rest of your weekend and your sunday good luck with school year it's here

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_00]: yes have a great rest of your weekend and your day and we'll see you next week bye everybody bye