Raising Values: Guilt

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome back to Raising Values.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Good morning everybody.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So as often happens with us is our daughter photobombing?

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_01]: She said she was going to.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anybody saw her though.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think she really wants to.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Come say hi.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Just come say hi.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Hi.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder if the audio picked her up?

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Probably.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Good.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_03]: This is Piper.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the girl we always talk about.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Say hi grandma and grandpa.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Awkward teenager is awkward.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm awkward today too though.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm being very awkward.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_05]: This is going to be a very awkward and anxious ridden topic.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: We're just talking.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh huh.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So as we often do on this show, like we tend to...

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_03]: You're so weird Piper.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Topics tend to come up basically from what's going on in our daily lives.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know this past week the topic of guilt has been a pointed discussion between the

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_01]: two of us.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Not because of the two of us.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not between the two of us.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's not because of the two of us.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's something that comes up and it's come up multiple times throughout our lives

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: together because I feel like at its most basic form like you and I just view guilt

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: very differently.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Well how do you build...

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess we haven't talked about this part.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_05]: How do you view guilt differently than I do?

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I get...

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, like I don't...

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't allow myself to feel guilt if that makes sense.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Like my point of view on guilt is...

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but my point of view on guilt is very simply that like in order to feel

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: guilt, I would have to feel like I wronged somebody.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: First of all.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Am I going to cry?

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Like time out, do I need to go get the Kleenex?

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Probably.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Probably.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Here comes our daughter with the roll of paper towels.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's going to be that kind of a show but...

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Piper brings me a whole roll of paper towels.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you dear.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: In my child.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But like in order to feel guilt, I would first have to feel like I've done

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: something to wrong someone and then I would have to feel like I haven't like

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_01]: made amends for it.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And my whole like my emotional process is always that if I feel like I've

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: done someone wrong, I'm going to admit it.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to apologize and I'm going to try to make amends for it.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And once I've done those three things, I have no more reason to feel guilt.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I've done what I need to do to resolve that hurt I caused.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's it.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no guilt.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's pause right there because we kind of really just dove into the

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_05]: subject without doing our...

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: The administrative work.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_05]: The administrative part of the podcast.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I think Piper...

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Hey Nina.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Piper threw us off a little bit, which is totally fine because I totally

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_05]: love having you on the show and you know poking your head in and saying

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_05]: hello and all that stuff, which is it's fine.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_05]: But I would like for you to see Phil's shirt.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_05]: You have to move your beard.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_05]: So we've been talking a lot lately about the new merch that's come to

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_05]: raising values and to matter of facts.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Did y'all was out on the website yet?

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I need to check.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually waiting on Andrew to like get a minute off work because he's

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_01]: got two of the new shirts and I've got two new ones and I need pictures

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: to put on Instagram.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, so I designed a lot of the new merch for matter of facts as well.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And one of Phil's heroes is Burt Gummer from Tremors.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But let's be realistic.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you grew up in the 90s, if you grew up in the 80s and 90s,

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_01]: you've watched Tremors.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you were like, if you're even remotely in the same thought process

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: like me and Andrew and a lot of the matter of facts guys are and girls

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: like Burt Gummer is a hero.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a rec room full of elephant guns.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: He lives like a crazy prepper in the middle of nowhere and he has an

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_01]: attractive wife.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Like what's not to idolize?

[00:04:38] Reva.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I love Reva.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not saying anything but yeah.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So anyway, so this is one of the shirts that is new to matter of fact.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_05]: So if you are a fan and idolize Burt Gummer just like Phil does,

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_05]: there you go.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: What would Burt do?

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_05]: What would Burt do?

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_05]: He would get the elephant gun.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Probably.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, so there is some new merch coming.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_05]: We are, I'm supposed to be modeling some new shirts today.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Phil doesn't want to do it even though it's for their podcast.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_05]: But that's because his beard covers most of the graphics on the shirt.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_05]: So you will see some new, if you're following matter of fact,

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_05]: you'll see some new stuff drop today, which is exciting.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's new.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_05]: It's needed.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_05]: It's all that stuff.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_05]: So anyway, raising values merch is on the website.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's ready to go.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_05]: So the link is in the description for the podcast.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_05]: It's Southern Gals, the Southern Gals crafts.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I always butcher that.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's in the show notes.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So go to the link and click there.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And she's got all sorts of fun things.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Cousis, burnt out but optimistic, the happy camper, which is my favorite.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And well, I can't decide.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_05]: First of all, I'm a delight and it's the angry possum.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_05]: OK, back to today's topic of guilt.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_05]: You don't feel guilt because you...

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I have a process in place to mitigate it, in my opinion.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, but like I said, like those are...

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: The reason I said I feel like you and I don't see guilt the same way

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: is because like that very first step, I have to feel like I did somebody wrong.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's connected to you feeling guilty

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: because there have been times where you've expressed feeling guilty

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and my meat response has been, but that's not on you.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You haven't done anything and that doesn't seem connected.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_05]: So you're right.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_05]: There are times where I haven't done anything

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_05]: and that's why the guilt is there because I haven't done anything.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't feel like I've exhausted all of my energy into fixing a problem.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_05]: So I've just let it sit, which causes the guilt.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Then let me rephrase.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to feel like I am responsible for that person's injury.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: There you go.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to feel respon...

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You can acknowledge that is not my responsibility

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and still feel guilty about it.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the first place the two of us kind of come apart on guilt

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: because my point of view is I'm like, hey, if that's your responsibility

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and you let it fall, that ain't on me and I don't feel guilty for you.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel bad for you.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you're a victim of the circumstances you created.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not on me.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not for me to feel bad for.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So why would I feel guilt?

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_01]: That's like I feel guilty that a meteor smashed into a planet 10,000 miles away.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I did nothing to cause that.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So where's my guilt?

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But you have expressed to me that even though you can acknowledge

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: that was my responsibility, you still feel guilty

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that that person's going through it and you're not.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Which makes no sense to me, but that's why we're talking about it.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: When we talked about this yesterday, I told you I'm like,

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I know we're going to disagree about most of this topic.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_05]: We are and I think there are some bigger circumstances.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I think my past has a lot to do with it, of the guilt that I feel.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And I, okay, so I have to stop beating around the bush.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_05]: So in my family, I was always put into the role of peacemaker and caregiver.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Put into the role, okay, made myself that, you know, that role,

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_05]: gave myself that role could also be the same thing to me I guess.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, I always felt like it was my responsibility

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_05]: to care for the people in my family.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_05]: My sisters were upset.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I was there to help them feel better.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_05]: If my parents were fighting, I was there to break up a fight

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_05]: between two adults as a child.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_05]: If my parents were sad or depressed or whatever,

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I took it upon myself to be the person to cheer them up

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and make sure that their emotional states were level.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And for context, how old were you when all this was going on?

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, this happened from the time I was little bitty till...

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Now.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Two days ago.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking about like six, seven, eight years old, like formative years.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Formative years, absolutely.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, all the way through high school, all the way through college even.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I can remember...

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You were still doing it when you and I met.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I can remember having conversations with my parents

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_05]: because when they were going through their divorce,

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I was put into a role where I shouldn't have been as a child,

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_05]: where parents should not put their children ever.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_05]: They should never put their children in that role.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And if they see that their children are in that role of caring for the emotions of them

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_05]: or making sure that the whole family unit is kosher and happy and at peace and whatever,

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_05]: if they see that happening, it's so wrong.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It's so wrong.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And it does so much damage and trauma to the child and to the adult growing up.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And as a 40-year-old woman, I still deal with the trauma of that,

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_05]: mainly because it still happens.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_05]: But one of the things that I tell Piper all the time,

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_05]: and we've been having a lot of conversations in this house with our almost teenage daughter.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And my feelings aren't hurt by this.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And she's listening still.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want her to feel like my feelings are hurt.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_05]: But we're at this stage in our relationship where mom is annoying.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm an annoying, hovering mother.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's what she told me the other day.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Cool.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I told her I was still going to hover a little bit.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll back off.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_05]: She told me to stop talking to her like a baby.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for pointing that out to me.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_05]: You will always be my child.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And I know parents that have older children can probably attest to this.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_05]: It's hard to break away from that image of a little two-year-old

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_05]: who curls up in your lap and loves on you and all that stuff.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It's hard.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, you always, not always,

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_05]: you never think about the last time something will happen.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_05]: You never think about the last time you pick her up.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_05]: You never think about the last time you hold her hand to walk down the street,

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_05]: or the last time that she crawls into the bed with us to watch cartoons before bed.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_05]: You never think about, well, was this the last time?

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_05]: It just happens.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And then you're like, well, she hasn't crawled in the bed with us in months or whatever.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Now she just pokes her head in and says good night,

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_05]: or she'll come in and say, I'm going to sleep.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Can I close your door?

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Because your lights are still on.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's like, okay, yeah, sure.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_05]: So you don't think about those things.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And you also, at least for me and my family here,

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think about the last, I'm sorry.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think about the tone that I use with her.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Being that she's a 12-year-old, almost 13-year-old,

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I still sometimes talk to her like a baby.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I still will ask a thousand questions to get to the root of the problem or whatever.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And what she has said to me is you don't trust me.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Please trust me.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And that just kind of hit home.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_05]: So I guess in a roundabout way, telling that story is as a parent,

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I take notice.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I try to take notice and I rely on you and Piper to help me back away

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_05]: when things, when emotions or different times in our lives need me to back away.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, if, what I guess the other thing I'm trying to say,

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_05]: sorry, my brain is all over the place mainly because of what this topic is.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_05]: One of the things I tell Piper all the time is she is not responsible for my emotions.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_05]: She is not responsible for her telling me that I'm a hovering, annoying mom.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_05]: She did it in the most polite, gentle way that she could.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And it still hurt my feelings.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Not because she meant to hurt my feelings.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_05]: It's because it meant that that part of being a mother is now I have to sever that

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_05]: because I can't hover.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I can't be that mom.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_05]: But what I always try to get across to her is you don't hurt people's feelings on purpose.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_05]: You watch your tone and you watch how you speak to people.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_05]: But you are not responsible for people's emotions.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And you are not responsible, especially for your parents' emotions.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I was, well, I was not, I should not have been.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I was and I feel like I still am.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's what I'm trying to break.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's where this guilt is coming in.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's why this show is happening today.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I have always felt responsible for my adult parents' emotions, actions and consequences.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I've always felt responsible for that.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Now we're in a place where their health is fading.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_05]: They can't really care for themselves.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_05]: They don't want my help.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_05]: But they aren't, they also aren't making adult decisions.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And so in order for me to keep the peace in this house and keep what we've built as a family in this house,

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I have to step away.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_05]: But in stepping away, I get the guilt of, but you're responsible for that.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I've been responsible for that for 40 years.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I've been responsible for these two people, these grown adults for 40 years.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_05]: How do I just step away?

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, everybody says, well, block them.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Block them on your phone.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Block them.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Don't answer their phone calls.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Don't respond to the text.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_05]: And so something happened on Thursday, late at night, already in bed, halfway asleep.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Won't go into deep, because that part doesn't need the details.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_05]: But something happened with my parents.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was almost like the dam broke.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And I just, I let it out.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I let it out.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I let people hear it.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I let the people who were there hear it.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And when I'm, we're talking like 11 o'clock at night and it's a school night and I'm tired.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And so I felt guilty for saying the things that I said.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't mean.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't ugly.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I said a few cuss words, but sometimes you just have to cuss in order to get your point across or at least feel like you're getting your point across.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't say anything that wasn't true.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_05]: And I didn't, I wasn't lying about anything.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't stretch the truth in any way.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_05]: But for some reason, I still felt guilty that I spoke to my parents the way that I did or said the things to my parents that I said.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And I know in my heart of hearts that this isn't healthy.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_05]: This is not how, this is just not normal.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_05]: A person should not feel hostage to, and that's kind of what I wrote.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I kind of wrote some things out last night.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_05]: But I, my, my emotions are being held hostage by my parents.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like they have always done that.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_05]: They have always known my strengths and weaknesses and they've always played that against me.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't so much physically abused like my sisters were, but I was very much and still very much am emotionally abused by them.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And what I have a hard time doing is breaking that connection of responsible being responsible for two grown adults that are still my parents.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's hard because when it was just me, like say I was in college, I did.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_05]: You and I weren't together. We weren't married. We didn't have a child.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_05]: We didn't have a home. We didn't have a I didn't have a career.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't have all the things that I have right now.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_05]: It was it was I guess in my head more acceptable to allow this to happen because it only affected me.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_05]: But now it doesn't just affect me.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_05]: It affects my day at work because I can't get out of this depressive state that I get put in this bogged down of my energy is just I cannot climb out of it.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I it affects you and I because I cry all the time or I'm sad or I feel guilty or, you know, I'm not depressed.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I have been depressed in my life and this is not a depression.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_05]: This is just a heavy. It's a heaviness.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a heaviness of I want to do something like I've always done.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I want to slide back into that role of being the caregiver and the peacemaker and fix it.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_05]: But but at the same time, I know that I really have to stop responding to the text messages and the phone calls.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And and I'm you know, I'm also dealing with narcissists.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And so I've always been very pliable.

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I've always been very easy to manipulate and very easy to just have that hold on.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And I envy my sisters in such a way that they've been able to break that and will not even just break it.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_05]: But they've never really allowed it.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_05]: They've never allowed themselves to be twisted so much like I have.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And so this is such an emotional roller coaster for me of I know what I need to do.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I know what I have to do.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_05]: But then I overanalyze the situation of I have geriatric parents who are health is failing and they can't do it on their own and they need someone to help them and they need someone to do it for them.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_05]: But all of my energy that I have that should be over here with my family, my career, my house, my things, the things that I love is being sucked away over here by people who have always twisted my energy and held it hostage and literally have held my energy hostage.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And this is what I wrote last night.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Every night, this is my whichy woo woo hippie stuff that Phil says, my hippie hoo hoo.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Hippie woo woo. I don't know. Phil says hippie woo woo, witchy woo woo.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Every night I try to meditate.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I have to for my sanity.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And I call my energy back to me.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_05]: And whether you believe this or not, people either give their energy away to things or people throughout the day or it's taken from them.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And sometimes it's not in a bad way.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes people take your energy and they uplift them and it makes their day happier.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe you said something to them or you counseled them on something.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And so little pieces of your energy are taken or given throughout the day.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_05]: You need to be whole.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_05]: So at night or in the afternoon when the sun is setting, I will go and meditate and ground and I will call all of my energy back to me.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And what shouldn't be hard for me to do is say, this is one of the things that I say is I call all of my energy back to me.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_05]: The pieces that were taken and the pieces that were given and I trust that the people that took or I gave my energy to can handle the problems that they are facing with their own energy.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_05]: They don't need my energy to continue to face those things or get through those circumstances with my energy.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It's my energy.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And every time I do that, the first two faces I see are my parents.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Because they suck the energy from me.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I am constantly worrying about my parents.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm constantly giving myself to my parents.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And this is just like it's so hard to talk about, I guess.

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_05]: But I see it as well, they're my parents.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_05]: They need my help.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm their child.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm their family.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_05]: We're supposed to help each other.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_05]: We're supposed to help our family.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_05]: But the situation that I am in is I have done all the research.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I have called people.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I have talked to people.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I have done everything that I can.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I've given them options.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I've told them what needs to be done.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And this is what I told them the other night.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I am literally blue in the face telling you what needs to happen.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I have one parent who's waiting on a sign from God, and I have one parent who is,

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I believe, mental disorder is the worst that it can be for a person.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Neither of them want to see.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's like the story of the man on the roof during the flood,

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_05]: maybe you can tell it better because you do tell this story better.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_01]: The short version is there's a hurricane coming in,

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a flood coming in, and a man sitting on his porch and an arm

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and a neighbor drives by and says, Hey, let me get you out of here.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And the guy says, No, God will save me.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Water comes up.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He gets up on the second story.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Army truck comes by.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll save you.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_01]: No, God's going to save me.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Water comes up higher boat.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Water comes up higher helicopter.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the guy drowns and ends up in heaven and says, Why didn't God save me?

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: St. Peter looks and says, He sent your neighbor and a truck and a boat and a helicopter.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: What else did you want?

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So anyway, that's my dad.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_05]: My dad will constantly, constantly say, I've asked God for a sign or I've asked God for help

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_05]: and I trust that he's going to help me.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And so things just continue to degrade.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And all I keep hearing is, Well, God's going to help me.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_05]: God's going to help me.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And there have been times.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_05]: So the other night I was screaming in the phone because I was so, I was so upset.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I said, He has given you, He has given you not only signs but ways to help you time

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_05]: and time and time and time again.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And you refuse to take those things because you can't, because those are not the ways

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_05]: that you want it fixed.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Those are not the ways that you want God to save you or those aren't the signs that

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_05]: you want from God.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And so you keep refusing those things.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_05]: When everything keeps pointing back to this is the way, this is the only way,

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_05]: this is it.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm giving you this.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what else to do at this point.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_05]: You know?

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's just like for my mother who she has OCD, bipolar disorder was on her

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_05]: thing and I don't want to go too much into her medical whatever.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_05]: But she has enough mental clarity left that she knows what she should do.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_05]: She knows she can't do the things that she's doing.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_05]: She knows.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And everything is, you know, everything there's an excuse for everything.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_05]: There's an excuse for everything.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Inability to accept accountability.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And that has been my entire life.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And so my entire life has always been, well, don't forget, mom has this.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, don't be ugly to her because she's this.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Don't be ugly.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Don't say mean things to her because I'm coaching people in my life and her life.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but also I've heard your father coach you and your sisters too in that

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_01]: same vein of, you know, basically the message I kept getting was cut her all the

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_01]: black in the world because she's not responsible for the things she says, which

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: when you told me that I I immediately turned into myself and said, but you

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: like the whole world cannot be expected to just accept whatever disgusting

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_01]: horrible awful thing she says to them and then give her constant grace

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_01]: unless someone's going to then turn around address her and say you have to

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: put in some effort here to not be that person.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I am totally a okay with like you and I've had this conversation about Piper

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: she comes home from school.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It's been a bad day.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: She's emotional.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: She's upset.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to give her a little bit of grace, but we're also still going to

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: coach her and say, hey, I understand you're frustrated.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I get your mad, but we're not the bad guys here.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like there's a given a take there and the message that I kept

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: hearing was she's without fault and I can't accept that.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't accept that a grown adult has no responsibility to try to behave

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: themselves like a grown adult, but that's that that's the message I keep

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: hearing and it's not just her, but it's also him.

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the message I kept hearing was the two of them are without fault and

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: without accountability and that's not my definition of adult.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're an adult, you're accountable for your actions.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You're accountable for what you say and if you screw up, you apologize,

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_01]: which is another thing I haven't heard a lot from either one of them.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: When they wrong somebody or when they hurt somebody, I hear the words,

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: but I don't feel it because they just turn to do it again.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: How many times have you and I said saying the words I'm sorry without

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: action is it's hollow.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It's meaningless.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I hate Piper and that's what I tell my students too is because sometimes

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_05]: they do things and they need to come and apologize to me or whatever.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And that is the first time my that's the first thing I tell them is an

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_05]: apology without an action is nothing.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_05]: If you're sorry that you interrupted my class or you're sorry that you

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_05]: did this or you know with Piper if you're sorry that you did that,

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: don't do it again.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't do it again.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Change your actions.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Change your behavior and then I'll really believe that you're sorry about

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_05]: that.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_05]: It left that much of an impact on you.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's the other thing.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, you said something else that we talked to Piper about is

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_05]: when she comes home and she's venting and that's what she's doing.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_05]: She's venting about her day.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_05]: The girls, the drama, the this, the that that happened.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And we were always quick to point out.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, what part did you play?

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Because you didn't sit.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_05]: You we know that you weren't just innocent in this.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_05]: What part did you play?

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Did you use a certain tone?

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Did you say something that hurt their feelings?

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Did you know again, you're not responsible for my feelings or your

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_05]: father's feelings, but you are responsible for the things that come

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_05]: out of your mouth.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And so we try to get her thinking about, okay, well, what part did

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_05]: you play in that?

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_05]: What part?

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And then own that because you did that.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And then how do you need to make that better?

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you need to talk to your friend now?

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you need to apologize for being so ugly or whatever?

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_05]: So what we're trying to do is teach her that actions have

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_05]: consequences always.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Every action you make has a consequence.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a butterfly effect.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a ripple effect.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, maybe that means that you no longer have that

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_05]: friend or maybe that means that your friend is going to always look

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_05]: at you and think, well, she's going to just hurt my feelings again.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Or, you know, there's always something there.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, anyway.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So what you inadvertently just circle back around to was the very

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01]: thing we started this conversation off when I said if I feel

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_01]: guilt, I have to feel like I did.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I was responsible for someone's injury and then I apologize and I

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: make amends and the guilt is over.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And you just said that's exactly what we're teaching our

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_01]: daughter.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_05]: But I can't do it myself.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I know.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's hard for me to break away from a lifetime of doing this.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And but I've said it.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I've said it already.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I know that the way that I interact with my parents is not

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_05]: healthy and should not be happening.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I know that.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's hard to get over the guilt of being a child of being a

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_05]: child who doesn't help, you know.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, but so two things or being a child who has been made to

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_05]: feel like they are responsible.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And I haven't just been made to feel responsible by my parents.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I have other family members who thrust the responsibility on me.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And I believe, yes, that as a family member, as a family, we

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_05]: should take care of each other.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, there were so many cultures around the world that still do

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_05]: it and we don't do it so much in America anymore.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_05]: But families would live in these giant houses and all from great

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_05]: grandparents on down to great grandchildren would all live in these

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_05]: big communal houses together because family takes care of family.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_05]: But at which point do you stop?

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So a couple of things.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, boy.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but the other and I don't want to go too far down this road

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: because this will be another 15 minutes from you, which we need,

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_01]: but not right this moment.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But part of the other guilt you're feeling is like you remember

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_01]: the other day when you were I was talking about the same thing you

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: brought up about how when you were in college and it was just you by

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_01]: yourself, if this took all of your energy away, it only affected you.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But I told you the other day what what angers me so much about the

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_01]: situation you're in now and not anger towards you, but anger

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: towards the people doing this to you is that from my perspective,

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_01]: there are pieces of my wife being stolen from me and from my child

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_01]: all the time.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And that angers me because, you know, like I was raised obviously in a

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: very different household from when you from when you were I got the

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_01]: speech.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't couldn't tell you how young I was.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe my dad will remember.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But I remember the speech about how, you know, we me and your mom

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: are not your responsibility.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_01]: If we need help, we hope you'll come and help us.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But we're not your responsibility.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_01]: If you get married, your wife is your responsibility.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01]: If you have children, your children are your responsibility.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: If you have one meal left to feed people with, you better not better

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_01]: not choose me and your mother over your wife and your children

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_01]: because they're your responsibility.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So I grew up with this idea that like this household is mine to deal

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01]: with.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It's mine to take care of and support.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, obviously, you know that my parents have gone through

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01]: some things here and there where they've had to pick up the phone

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and say, hey, we really need some help.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm happy to go run.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But I can also remember a time when like I was literally in the

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: hospital room with my dad and my mom and you called and said,

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: hey, Trixie sick, I'm taking her to the vet.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And by the time I got off the phone, my dad looked at me and

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: said, you need to get back to Mandeville.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Like no thought of what was going on with him, even though he

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: was laid up in a hospital bed, no thought from my mom or then can

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: you please drop me off at home before you have to go?

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It was an immediate.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Your family needs you go because that's that's the family I grew

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_01]: up in.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like that's also part of where you feel the guilt is

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_01]: because you recognize that on the one hand, you have this pull

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: like you're having all this energy pulled from you by your

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_01]: parents.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But then you recognize the fact that energy gets pulled away

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_01]: from you.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It gets pulled away from me and our child too.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you feel guilt for that.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like you're you've you're trapped in this situation

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: where the energy has to go one of three directions.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Either you keep with yourself, you give it to your family or

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_01]: you give it to your parents.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And no matter where you go with it, you feel guilty.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_01]: You feel guilty that you took it from your husband and child

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_01]: or guilty that you didn't give it to your parents.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And even if like we've talked before about like especially

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_01]: during your time postpartum about how there were times

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you had nothing left to give to anybody, you can't pour from

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: an empty cup and you felt guilty that you had nothing left

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_01]: to pour.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_05]: So I just live in a constant state of guilt.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But but but that's why I wanted to talk about this

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_01]: today because like again, I don't I don't feel guilt.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't because I see guilt.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I see guilt like a sack of rocks.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It serves me no purpose.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It does me no good.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't motivate me to be a better person.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't motivate me to do better for my family.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It does it does me no good.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_01]: It's nothing but weight.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So I look at things in terms of am I responsible for an injury

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: to someone?

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01]: If so, you know me.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go and apologize for it.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to try to how to make up for it.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to try to make amends.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to try to make that person whole.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But once I've done those things, it's over.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not holding on to it.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And if somebody else comes in later and says, well, I'm still

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_01]: holding onto that.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Then my response is whether we haven't made amends yet.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You haven't accepted my apology.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_01]: There's something going on here that needs to be resolved

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_01]: so this can be behind us because continuing the cling to

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that injury or continue to feel responsible for that injury

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_01]: when you're not responsible for it, it's not healthy.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't it doesn't do anything.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I know.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I do it in a lot of aspects of my life, not just pulling

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_05]: guilt, you know, pulling energy away from you and Piper

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_05]: or giving too much to my parents.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_05]: But I do it with friendships and not friendships anymore.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, I continue to think of I continue to think

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_05]: of situations or circumstances that I've been in and there's

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_05]: always triggers.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, maybe I see this person and it's like, oh,

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah, that's unresolved.

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And but but it's not unresolved.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_05]: It is resolved because nothing else needs to be said or done.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's resolved.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_05]: It needs to be buried and I need to just go on and get

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_05]: over it.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I can't be the only one that these sorts of things linger

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_01]: according to the comments or not.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yes.

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's one of the things that Nina and I have

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_05]: always had in common that we know of.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Where are you going?

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to circle back a few of these because I didn't

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_01]: address them as they were coming up, but I was reading

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_01]: them.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But she was on a roll and I know better than to stop her

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_01]: because her train will go right off the tracks.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But Nina had said, I always feel mom guilt with that.

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_01]: That was the moment I read that and I side eyed you

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_01]: because mom guilt is a real thing.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I always feel mom guilt when I buy something for

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_01]: myself.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I tell myself I didn't need it and I should have got

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_01]: something for my family instead.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Same girl.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But I have worked through that better.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You have.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But here's the thing of it.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Do I feel guilty when I buy something for myself?

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you buy things for yourself?

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_01]: On occasion.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: When I push you to?

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, okay.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But here's the thing.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't buy things for myself very often.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_01]: The majority of my...

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Because to me money is just pieces of paper traded

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_01]: for time.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying at the end of the day?

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So I spend my time, majority to enrich you and my

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_01]: child because that's my responsibility.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm supposed to do.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And if I buy something for myself occasionally,

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think oh, I should have spent that on

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_01]: them.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I think to myself everyone has clothes,

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_01]: everyone has food, everybody has shiny stuff that

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_01]: makes them happy.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_01]: My wife has books, my daughter has a bedroom

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_01]: remodel.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I can buy myself something now.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess to my point of view it's like I

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_01]: don't allow myself to feel guilt because again,

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_01]: guilt doesn't serve me.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those things...

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_05]: You're not taking from us.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_05]: When you buy something for yourself...

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I want you to remember all these words you're

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_01]: saying.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_05]: But first off you don't buy a lot for yourself

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_05]: at all.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But when I do it's usually...

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_05]: A big ticket item.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like four stacks on Night Vision.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's not taking away from us.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's what I had to get over was I needed...

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I remember Piper being younger and I needed clothes.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I needed something because I had holes in

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_05]: everything.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I just hadn't taken care of myself.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And I just couldn't be like that anymore.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_05]: So I have gotten better about making sure that

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_05]: my needs have to be met too.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_05]: It's part of that whole you can't pour from

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_05]: an empty cup.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, I can't just give and give

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_05]: and give and not give back to myself in that

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_05]: aspect.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_05]: So I am better about that.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Next.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Kyle said I feel guilt that I have to work

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: so much that I'm not home with my family.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And I will just say this.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_01]: My father has expressed this to me before.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Not often.

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But when I was young like my mom worked or

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: my mom stayed home.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: My dad worked.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Between commuting and everything else, he was

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: out of the house easily 10 to 12 hours a day.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Easily.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: With the commute in and out of New Orleans

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_01]: because we lived on the North Shore.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And with the time he spent at work and then

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_01]: like the number of times we had quote unquote

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_01]: after school family time kind of scheduled

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and then his work recall and he'd have to

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_01]: jump back in the truck and blitz and we

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_01]: wouldn't see him again until the next day.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that was just a function of our lives.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_01]: That was his career.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And he has expressed once or twice that yeah

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: he wishes he could have been there but his

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_01]: he always said he's like but that was the

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_01]: thing of it.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I worked that hard so your mom could stay

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_01]: home so you had your mom 100% of the

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_01]: time even if I wasn't there.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: For the families where both husband and

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_01]: wife work which is fairly common these days.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Very common in our generation.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But this is also the thing I say is that

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I have always tried to be very specific

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_01]: about the fact that it's not the time you

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_01]: spend with your family.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's how you spend the time you have with

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_01]: your family because you get in situations

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_01]: like people that are roughnecking out oil

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: rigs or military veterans or anything

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: where and I don't want to call Kyle out.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I know what his career is but like he's

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_01]: in one of those careers where yeah you're

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_01]: away from home a lot.

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the way it is.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But the way I try to tell people is I'm

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_01]: like if you maximize the quality of the

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_01]: time you do have your children will

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_01]: remember that.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Like the things I remember growing up

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_01]: from about my dad were the things he

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_01]: taught me and the time he spent with me

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_01]: like teaching me what it meant to be a

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_01]: husband and a man.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure he would have rather had

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_01]: more hours to do that.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_01]: But I remember because like there was

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_01]: never a time when like dad was home

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and then dad was going to the bar to

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_01]: hang out with his friends and I was

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_01]: just sitting at the house by myself.

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_01]: When dad was home he spent time with

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_01]: his family.

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So I would just say that like I totally

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_01]: get the guilt.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I would just say that like you have to

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_01]: you have to try to rearrange your

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_01]: thinking around.

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the number of hours I get

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_01]: spend with my family it's how I

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_01]: spend those hours.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_01]: If you spend it like I lost my word.

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_01]: If you spend it like truly emotionally

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_01]: connecting to your wife and your kid

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_01]: then I call that time well spent.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll always wish we had more hours

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_01]: but you know make the best of what

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_01]: you have.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And Kyle yes Gilead is a tribe mom but

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I kind of just to address this so Kyle

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_05]: said as our tribe mom I'm sorry if I

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_05]: make you feel guilty for taking care

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_05]: of us.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I have always said and will always

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_05]: say that the people that we have

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_05]: met and have grown to mean y'all are

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_05]: family.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Y'all are our chosen family.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't get a text message or a phone

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_05]: call every day from someone in our

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_05]: tribe of people that says hey can you

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_05]: help me with this or hey do you know

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_05]: about that.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_05]: When I do get those and when I get

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_05]: them from you I really get excited

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_05]: because that means that my friends

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_05]: trust me enough that they're coming

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_05]: to me for my advice and my opinions.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I pride myself on how much I this

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_05]: could probably be a downfall to.

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_05]: In fact you have said this to me

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_05]: before when I get into something like

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_05]: herbalism or meditation or you know

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_05]: old ways of healing ourselves and

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_05]: things like that I get into it.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I do all the research I'm constantly

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_05]: reading I'm constantly practicing I'm

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_05]: constantly doing and not I don't I

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_05]: wouldn't at all say that I'm an

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_05]: expert but I know my stuff.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I do know my stuff and so when my

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_05]: friends or family call and say hey

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_05]: this is my ailment or this is

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_05]: what's happening or maybe I'm going

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_05]: through this right now maybe it's

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_05]: something emotional or whatever in the

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_05]: family.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_05]: How would you handle this?

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_05]: What would you do?

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_05]: What would you take?

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_05]: What would you recommend?

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't I absolutely do not mind

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_05]: helping our friends and family

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_05]: through things like that because I

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_05]: feel like that's one of the things

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_05]: that I've been called to do.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like that is where I this

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_05]: is gonna sound stupid but I feel

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_05]: powerful in that like I feel like I

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_05]: know it's like I know what bug to

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_05]: eat if we get hungry.

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe maybe the line of

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_01]: separation there is that when you

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_01]: give energy to someone and they make

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: use of it.

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Because here's the way here's the

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_03]: way I sorry that was like a burst of

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: insight.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Well my voice I was just like yeah

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_01]: but I guess here's here's my point

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of view.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: If someone needs something whether

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_01]: you call it energy help advice

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_01]: whatever when they take that from you

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and it they use it to put themselves

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_01]: on an upward trajectory when you

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_01]: take your when you take that energy

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_01]: back or when you just subtract your

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_01]: energy from them.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You know I'm saying like I've given you

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_01]: the advice you're implementing it

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_01]: you're doing what you need to do.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to sit here and worry

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_01]: over you and hover over you because

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: you're doing the work then that's a

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_01]: positive experience for you and for

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_01]: them.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_05]: It's how it should be.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_05]: That's how it should happen.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a hot air balloon.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Pull the lever blow hot air up in

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_01]: the balloon.

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_01]: The balloon goes up when you stop

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_01]: blowing hot air up into the balloon it

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_01]: still continues to go up for a while

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_01]: even though you've taken that energy

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_01]: either you're not continue to put

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_01]: energy into it.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_01]: What's hard is when you put energy

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_01]: into a person and then they punch a

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_01]: hole in the top of the balloon and

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_01]: let it right back out because now

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_01]: it's like I can blow all the

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_01]: energy into this balloon I want.

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to it's not going to

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_01]: get analogy.

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I do that sometimes.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_05]: That's really good.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_05]: That is exactly how I feel.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like I am constantly blowing

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_05]: energy blowing hot air.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to touch that.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Opinions?

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_05]: You have anything to say?

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_01]: How do I know it's good for me?

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Into the situation that has a hole

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_05]: in it.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_05]: What did you say?

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_05]: We you told my uncle that this

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_05]: family the Rabelais will no longer

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_05]: bail water out of the sinking

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_05]: boat.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_01]: That's another one.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah like if you're if you're in a

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_01]: boat and there's a hole in the boat

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and you're bailing water out of the

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_01]: boat what's the better use of your

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: energy to bail water out of the boat

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_01]: or to plug the freaking hole so the

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_01]: water stops coming in.

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But in the situation we find

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_01]: ourselves in right now and very

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_01]: often the person who can plug the

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_01]: hole doesn't want the hole plugged.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_01]: They just want you to keep bailing

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_01]: the water out of the boat.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And again the way I was raised

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_01]: like I can remember my dad telling

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_01]: me a long long time ago about how it

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_01]: was like it was almost like the

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_01]: essence of Christianity to give to a

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_01]: person to help them with no

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_01]: expectation of return.

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But in the same breath I was told

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_01]: if you give to a person who doesn't

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_01]: truly need the help you're teaching

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_01]: them to be crippled or if you give

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_01]: to a person who doesn't use your

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_01]: help to help themselves then you're

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_01]: taking that away from you and your

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_01]: family where that energy would be

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_01]: better spent.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's all again it's all these

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_01]: life lessons I was taught as a

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_01]: young man wrapped up together to

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_01]: basically say if I have a person

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_01]: who says hey I need help and I give

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_01]: them help and they do you know F

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_01]: all with my help.

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew you were going to say that.

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But if they do nothing with my

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_01]: help I'm not giving them any more

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_01]: help.

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say here's the help

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_01]: when you do that you can come back

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and we'll talk about step two.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're not going to take

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_01]: step one if you're not going to step

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_01]: off the porch into your neighbor's

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_01]: truck to get away from the flood

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_01]: don't come screaming at me wanting

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_01]: the army truck the boat or the

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_01]: helicopter because I'm not doing it.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all energy that I could have

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_01]: spent on someone who would have

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_01]: saved themselves.

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all energy I could have

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_01]: spent on my wife and daughter who

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_01]: were my responsibility.

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_01]: It's energy I could have spent on

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_01]: me making me a better person for

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_01]: other people.

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But to me I refuse to expend my

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_01]: energy on people who will not make

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_01]: use of that energy who will continue

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to punch holes in the balloon and

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_01]: let that let the air out when I'm

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_01]: trying to elevate them.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just I can't I cannot sign

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_01]: off on doing that and I don't feel

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_01]: guilt because I finally got tired

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_01]: of it and unscrewed the fuel

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_01]: bottle and took it you know took

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_01]: it away from them and let the balloon

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_01]: crash into the ground because my point

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_01]: of view is all you had to do was

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_01]: quit punching holes in your own

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_01]: balloon and you would have continued

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_01]: to rise but you just you chose not

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_01]: to.

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm taking my energy back you're

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_01]: going to go into the ground at

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_01]: terminal velocity and that's not my

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_01]: fault anymore I'm not responsible

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_01]: for that.

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You put the holes in the balloon not

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_01]: me.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think for some people my

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_05]: parents included misery loves

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_01]: company and truest words ever spoken

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_05]: and they even though the situation

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_05]: may be dire and grim and it's hard to

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_05]: get through and you know most people

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_05]: will from the outside can look in

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_05]: and say wow you really need help.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_05]: There are some people who really do

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_05]: like to live in that they really

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_05]: like to punch those holes because it

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_05]: gets them more tension and like

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I say with you know some children any

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_05]: attention is good attention.

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And so that's what I feel like I'm

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_05]: dealing with with my family any

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_05]: attention is good attention and so

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_05]: when my mom called last night and I

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_05]: didn't answer I came to you actually

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I texted you because I was in the

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_05]: bathtub I texted you and then I came

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_05]: into the living room where you were

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_05]: and it's like I think I'm going to

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_05]: do this I think I'm going to text

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_05]: her back and say I've received your

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_05]: phone call and I received your

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and you know just like always smell

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_05]: from the other day and just keep

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_05]: everything light hearted and you

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_05]: know tell her I don't want to talk

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_05]: about or discuss what happened the

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_05]: other day that is I don't want to

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_05]: talk about it. I don't want to

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_05]: discuss it with you or dad and

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_05]: tell her you know everything here is

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_05]: fine we're good.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_05]: talk to you soon. And then you and my sister both said, why? Why would you even respond?

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Why would you even put the energy there? And then I start crying again because, well,

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't responded. And you feel guilty. I feel guilty that I haven't responded. And

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I know that my mom is over there upset because her daughter hasn't responded to her. And

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want people mad at me. I don't want people upset with me because I am being mean or

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not responding or whatever. Then they illustrate the wonderful difference between

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_01]: me and my wife. There's a meme you've probably seen floating around the internet that says,

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_01]: how do you sleep knowing people are angry at you? And the meme says on my stomach with no

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_01]: pants on in case they want to kiss my behind. I've never seen that. Well, but I, I,

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_01]: feel it on a personal level because again, if I stop speaking to someone because they

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_01]: woke me up at 1130 at night with some stupid stuff and I don't want to talk to them for

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_01]: a couple of days and that hurts their feelings, be hurt. Be hurt. I don't care.

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_05]: That's what I'm trying to deal with. I know what needs to happen. I don't need to call

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_05]: them back. I don't need to text. I don't need to check on them if it was a true emergency or

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_05]: something was really wrong or whatever. I know I would find out. I know that you would get a

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_05]: phone call or my sister would get a phone call or I know, I know, I know.

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But here's the, but we didn't get to talk about much last night because you were very

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_01]: upset and emotional and I didn't feel like it was the proper time to try to have like

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_01]: a rational conversation about why I had advised you. I wouldn't, I wouldn't text her back.

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_01]: The reason I said I wouldn't text her back was because you wanted to do it because you felt guilty.

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_01]: In other words, if you could have convinced me this was not a guilt response. This is

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to know how they're doing for your information then I would have said,

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_01]: okay, text them back. It was a guilt response.

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess what I'm saying is there was more to me advising you don't text them back

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_01]: than, you know, F those people. They woke you up at 1130 night. None of that was in my thought

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_01]: process because I'm looking at, I'm looking, I looked at that decision purely from the

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_01]: perspective of you with no regard given for them whatsoever, which could be a plus and a

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_01]: minus because they are my in-laws. But my point of view is very simply, if what you

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_01]: were doing is responding to a guilt impulse, I don't think you should do that. I don't think

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_01]: you should do anything because you feel guilty. I think you should do something because either

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_01]: it serves you, it serves your energy, it serves your goals or because you feel like it is your

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_01]: responsibility. And if you could convince me that their physical wellbeing is your

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_01]: responsibility when you've given them the tools they need to make it better and they

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_01]: haven't taken them, I'd be open to that conversation but I'm not feeling it so far.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It really just comes down to like, you know, obviously like we don't have the relationship

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_01]: where it's like the 1960s and you do what I say or else because I'm your husband. We

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_01]: don't have that relationship. Try to control a Sicilian lady. Let me know how that works out

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_01]: for you. It's like friggin trying to steer a tornado. But for me it is more of like you

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I gave it and I give advice. I make most of my decisions very dispassionately. I don't

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_01]: trust my emotions to steer me in the right direction most of the time. Like I want to

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of like unpack something and think it through and then make a decision based on that.

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I offered what I did last night. Not because of them but because I felt like

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_01]: you were responding to that guilt and I'm like no, like we have to start breaking this

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_01]: cycle of I feel guilty. They make me feel guilty so I feel like I have to do things

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that are not in your best interest to try to paper over that guilt but the cycle continues

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and the guilt keeps coming. I guess at the core of it, I'm always that person and I think

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Nina could probably agree with me on this. Phoebe, my sister just, Phoebe you're a little

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_05]: late to the game today. She said boy what did I walk into? You need to go back and listen

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_05]: to the last 50 minutes. It's one of those shows sister that I keep hearing Phil in the

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_05]: problems that I have and you know the way that I was raised and my parents and all that stuff.

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And Phil is always saying but what do you say? You always say

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_05]: but if they feel ashamed for being called out then they shouldn't have done the action.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes. So that's one of the, trust me the guilt is strong about

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_01]: airing dirty laundry on the internet. And again going back to what I said in the very first

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_01]: time, if you called me out for something I've done wrong in the past but I feel like I've made a

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_01]: mince for it, I don't feel ashamed. I say yeah I screwed up and I fixed it. Would you be okay

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_05]: if we talked about it? Sure. Even if it's like super dirty, not dirty but like bad

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_01]: like abuse or whatever? Oh you mean like the way we used to argue? We could do a whole episode

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_05]: the way you and I used to fight with each other. That's because I learned how to argue from my

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_01]: parents. And I learned how to argue by like making a person, like tactically unwinding

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_01]: a person's argument or by leading a person to a point where they were going to lose the

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_01]: argument because I led them to that point. Like I never argued with a person when I was younger

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like trying to unpack emotion stuff. It was like no, no, no. You started this argument and

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you can remember some arguments you and I, we're not going down this rabbit hole

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_01]: right this minute, but I'm sure you can remember some arguments we had where I was pretty quick

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_01]: to say you know what? I apologize. I screwed that up. I didn't realize that or I didn't

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_01]: see it that way. But once my feelings were hurt it was like no, no, no. There is no

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_01]: contrition happening here. This is purely a I'm gonna make you feel like a moron for starting

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_01]: this argument with me. You do that to me? I used to. I know you did. And you used to say

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_01]: whatever disgusting thing you could think of would hurt me the worst. Neither one of us were

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_05]: nice to each other when we argued. Okay well then maybe that needs to be a show. Anyway,

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess my question is if I continue down this road of not, not engaging is really what it

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_01]: is. It's not engaging. I'm not trying to be rude. I have to write this down before I forget it.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Does the guilt ever go away? And I guess that's a question for a counselor or a therapist or

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_05]: someone. Does the guilt ever go away or will I constantly be in this vice of feeling guilty,

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_05]: feeling bad about not being there, not being there for every little thing? And then

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's where I have to keep reminding myself. I'm not pulling away completely. I'm

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_05]: not saying all right mom and dad you know what y'all go die on your own. I'm not doing that.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_05]: What I'm pulling away from is these being pulled into their fights or being

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_05]: pulled into decisions that I should never ever be a part of.

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Um I just think it's wrong. It's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong even when your children

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_05]: are adults to involve your children in your marriage. Your children have no place in your

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_05]: marriage. We will never ever, ever, ever and I know you agree with me put Piper in a position

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_05]: where she is between the two of us or she has to pick size or she is made to love one parent

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_05]: over the other. The the trauma from that abuse is I well I would I would think maybe my sister

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_05]: who was physically abused can say is just as bad as being physically abused. The trauma coming

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_05]: from physical abuse. I think it's just as bad and what sucks the most is

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_05]: baby don't take offense. The physical abuse stopped for my sisters because they left. They grew up

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_05]: and they got away. They can no longer be physically abused by my parents.

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I am still being emotionally abused because I'm allowing it. So when does the guilt stop? When

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_05]: is the guilt you know I ask my dad this all the time. When is enough enough for you? When

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_05]: is enough enough that you're going to say I can't do this anymore. We have to take this road. We

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_05]: have to go down this road. This is our path now. When is enough enough? So I have to ask

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_05]: myself that same question. When is enough enough for me? Well then the thing I would say is that

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_01]: the physical abuse for your sister stopped when they left the home

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_01]: but there was an attempt to continue the emotional abuse and both of your sisters have

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_01]: cut that off at the knees. Like your oldest sister very plainly said to me

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: as far as I'm concerned I love my parents. I've forgiven them for what they did

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_01]: but I am not allowing them to screw with my life anymore. I have seen that from her when

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: she's I don't know when she developed it but she has a switch she flips. When she flips it

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: you cannot get into her. Who? Phoebe. Yeah. When she flips the switch you're on the outside

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you're not coming in and she's like an incredibly warm inviting open person when she's being dealt

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_01]: with properly. Like you know towards her fiance, towards her child, her grandchildren, all of

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_01]: her grandchildren. She's a wonderfully open and you know kind woman but if you screw with her

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_01]: at least a little bit she'll flip that switch and you don't want to be there anymore because

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_05]: you just don't want to be there. I envy people like that. I wish I could be like that. You

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_05]: married one. Well okay true but I still envy the fact that you can do that and that she

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_05]: can do that and I know so many people in my life that can flip the switch and I can't

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_05]: because it's like you walk into a house and you have like six switches on the wall and you

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_05]: have to switch one of them on and the other one is up and which one turns this light off and which

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_05]: one turns that fan on and I'm just constantly switching and nothing is ever off or on. Not at

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_05]: the same time. I envy people like that and I don't know how I don't know how to do that

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and maybe I'm not supposed to do that. Maybe I'm supposed to be that person that always has

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_05]: two switches up and two switches down or whatever but there has to be a way that I can

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_05]: learn to deal with that kind of stuff. Like when that one switch is up and they should all be down

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I have to be able to learn how to deal with that. Does that make sense? I don't think my

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_01]: analogy was good. No I totally get it. I took away from that that you're just complicated

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_05]: which I've known for I've known for 19 years. So you have nothing else to say about

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just complicated. Well okay so the problem is the problem with me trying to help you through

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: this and I was hoping that like maybe this episode would help you unpack a little bit but

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_01]: the problem I struggle with is is that you and I are so opposite in so many ways you know what

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying? Like I don't know how to tell you to resolve guilt because I don't feel guilt.

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Well it's like Phoebe said putting up boundaries helps her. I feel guilt for putting

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_05]: up boundaries. Why do I feel guilt for protecting myself? But here's the thing.

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: As a therapist where's Eddie? We need Eddie. But here's the thing this is also why I suggested

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: that if need be I'm happy to be inserted in between you and the situation to try to give

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you some buffer area because then it's not you that's installing the boundaries it's me

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and I am emotionally at peace being the bad guy in almost every situation because I just

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: again it's like you and I talked about the other day like if I'm feeling I'm doing what I have to

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_01]: do to protect my wife and my child I am emotionally at peace being the most vicious

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: human being on earth. I don't I do not care and I will feel no guilt because you you tried

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: to and I will so what what okay so then which is the lesser of the two guilts? The guilt you

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: feel because your husband served his function in this marriage and family or the guilt you feel

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: because you installed those barriers yourself? I mean all of the guilt feels the same to me

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_05]: and it usually even if it's like a little bit of guilt a little kernel of guilt it's always a

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_05]: big it's always huge to me guilt is just guilt and so when I told you the other day that

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_05]: you were off your leash after 19 years you are off your leash and I know that those are words

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_05]: you've been waiting to hear but I put a stipulation on it. You're off your leash

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_01]: but you have to be respectful. I can deal with that but like I told you in the same breath

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I will be respectful because it's how I was raised but I'm going to be exactly as vicious

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_01]: as I have to be if I'm forced to by somebody else which is the only promise I can ever make

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: to people is like I can be the nicest guy and I can be the biggest a-hole it's totally

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: up to you. It's not my decision to make because I was raised the way I was and I was raised to be

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_01]: who I am but if you force me to if you force me to twist the lever way over here and I have

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: to go here you're the one that put me there we could have done this the night we could have

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I could have been the nice guy but you wouldn't allow me to be. I do take some relief

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_05]: like I can take a little bit of a deep breath in all of this guilt of knowing that

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_05]: my husband is there to fight with this fight for me it was really nice the other day

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_05]: when I said when I think it was Friday morning I said you're off your leash whatever you want

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_05]: to do you do it if you want to call them if you want to talk to whoever whatever and you

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_05]: said I'm going to talk call your uncle and I was like cool cool you call him because I don't

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_05]: want to I don't want to talk to anybody right now I'm not in an emotional place to talk to

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_01]: anybody I just can't. And me and him had a really good conversation I explained to him like

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: what our point of view is I told him a little bit of my point of view but I mean a lot of

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_01]: what I was trying to get across to him is like this is where this family the three of us

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_01]: stand on this issue and there is going to be no more there's going to be no more discussion

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: about how we are to be responsible for things that are beyond our control we're not doing

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_05]: that anymore you know like I which was a big relief for me and because that's what I need

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_05]: and maybe it's I have always needed you to step in and say no we're not doing it this way or

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I've always needed you in some circumstances to make those big decisions because I have

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I forget what it's called but decision anxiety that's not what it's called when I have to make

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_05]: a decision or I have to plan something or do something I get anxiety when I have to make

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_05]: a decision because I weigh out pros and cons on both sides okay and so for you to step in and

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_05]: say nope we're not doing this anymore no this is how it's going to be or you know we're

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_05]: doing it this way it's such a relief it's just like okay good thank you for making that

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_05]: decision for me because now I'll just follow you wherever you want to go and we'll do it that way

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and yet sometimes when I don't make the decision you want you push back we're not talking

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: about where we're eating for dinner I wasn't talking about we were going to eat for dinner

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: either but I'm just I'm just saying like I'll put this in the book too I'm just saying

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: there are times when you want me to make a decision but then when I don't make the decision you want

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: you fight back you fight against me and then I'm kind of like then make the decision yourself

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_05]: and then you don't want to and then we wind up you know okay anyway anyway we're at an

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_05]: hour and almost 10 minutes on this discussion and I think it's probably more for a therapist

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's probably where I'm at I don't know I don't know it's in it

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_05]: maybe I need like a group of people who deal with this too how do you survive guilt I don't

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_05]: know guilt is a hard one it's always been a hard one for me I've always felt guilty I feel

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_05]: like that's always been the burden on my back is guilt um I don't like confrontation and

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_05]: don't like people being upset with me and I always want the status quo and just level

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I want it always level and anytime it's up or down I get anxiety and especially if I'm the

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_05]: one causing the up and the down which at this point I feel like by not responding to

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_05]: to those two people I am the one who's causing the up and the down I'm the one

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_05]: who's causing the distress and the discomfort and the um conflict and that is what I'm trying to

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_05]: work out in my head that I'm not responsible for them and that I am not responsible for

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_05]: them feeling if they are feeling hurt or upset or abandoned or any of those things

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_05]: um and that's what I'm trying to work through that's the guilt that I'm trying to work through

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not responsible for them but it's hard when you have felt like and have been in the

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_05]: position of being responsible for adults um emotions for so long you know and and even

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_05]: now their physical health that I am I have been thrust into a position by family members

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_05]: that I'm responsible for their physical health and and not that I will ever leave them to just

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_05]: waste away in their chairs alone or um you know go through a horrible physical end of their life

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I won't do that but I've got to learn to put boundaries up in that I am not I cannot quit

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_05]: my job and I cannot leave my family to take care of my parents my parents had every

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_05]: opportunity and the means to set themselves up in such a way for their retirement and in their

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_05]: this process of their life there's the time of their life monetarily they had all the things

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_05]: there and they blew it they blew through it they made poor decisions they that you know

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_05]: just like I said last night my dad made six figures growing up and in the 90s that was a

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_05]: lot of money but we still had to scrimp and save and look under couch cushions for milk

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_05]: and bread not under the couch cushions for milk and bread but for money you know coins under the

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_05]: couch cushions for milk and bread and and why did we have to when at some point we had trust

[01:10:32] [SPEAKER_05]: funds set up me and my sisters had trust funds my cousin had trust funds from our great

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_05]: grandparents and I was a trust fund baby but the trust funds were gone before I made it

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_05]: college and somehow some way the money was finigled out of the the trust funds

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_05]: and so and and that's that's fine you know it is it is what it is at this point there's

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_05]: no point in getting upset about that but I am not responsible and this is what I have to

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_05]: keep telling myself my parents made decisions in their life in their marriage and raising

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_05]: their children from the time that they were in their 20s to now in their 70s they've made

[01:11:15] [SPEAKER_05]: decisions and most of them have been poor decisions and it got them to the point that

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_05]: they are today with only social security they can't go into a nice nursing home they're

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_05]: not moving into my house they can't afford hospice nurses well you know they've made

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_05]: these decisions in their life and that's not my responsibility and that's not my fault

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_05]: as their child I had no I had no say in those decisions that they made and therefore I have no

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_05]: responsibility for the consequences that they are now seeing in their life I hurt for them

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_05]: my heart breaks for them daily my heart breaks for them but I cannot I cannot give

[01:12:03] [SPEAKER_05]: these large amounts of my energy to them anymore because it not only takes away from myself but

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_05]: it takes away from you and piper and I refuse to continue a um I refuse to continue a tradition

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess you could say that's not the right word of this in my family there are there are things

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_05]: that I am very much aware of that I have set out on a path as a mother and a wife to break

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_05]: those inherited traditions that came from grandparents and great-grandparents and

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_05]: that's just the way it was kind of you know mentality because it's not that's not the way

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_05]: things should be and so we're not doing it in this house but I can't fully do that unless I

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_05]: totally break away from the abusers so there that's all but that's not all because there's

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_05]: so much to unpack anyway you're gonna have to end the show for me I think it's time

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah we're an hour 15 and still have four people watching which is always interesting when you go

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: like way over your normal hour and everybody sticks around but I thank everybody for doing

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: that I mean I think guilt is I think guilt is like a very human emotion I just I personally

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: made a decision years ago that things that don't serve me don't deserve a place in my life and

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't see guilt as serving me it doesn't doesn't motivate me to be better it doesn't

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: motivate me to be a better husband or father it doesn't it doesn't do anything except drag me

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: down so I made a decision years ago to just shed that emotion get rid of it and I don't

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't go there I have a process for getting rid of it and I don't know what the answer is

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: for you but you at least recognize that it's not healthy and you at least recognize like on

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_01]: an intellectual level on a rational level it's probably not called for so now we just have

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: to help get you from where you're at where like you rationally understand the issue

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to unpack the emotions from it good luck well hopefully it was helpful

[01:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: with everybody else I mean that's why we do the show is to try to try to unpack very

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_01]: emotional complicated discussions hoping that somebody else will get something out of it

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_05]: how to get rid of it would be nice to know same tread when you figure it out

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: let me know go back and listen to the last hour 15 because I told you my method but then again I'm

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_01]: a hyper rational person so my method probably doesn't work for everybody but I just say that

[01:15:02] [SPEAKER_01]: like if I'm responsible for an injury I apologize for it I make amends and then once

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that's the once I've once I have apologize admitted and apologize for the injury and then

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: made amends for it that person's made whole there's no more reason for guilt there's no

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_01]: reason for guilt anymore but to get to even get into that process I have to pass the gatekeeper

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: which is am I responsible for that injury and if the answer is no what do I have to feel guilty

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: about but let's go ahead and pack this one up we have a beautiful sunday and we got all of

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: our chores done yesterday so we have nothing to do except frolic and goof around I want to see

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_05]: you frolic I mean I frolic in my own way all right guys we'll thank y'all for joining us and

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_05]: walking through this with me there will probably be more to come I can almost

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_05]: only like almost like guarantee that so anyway I hope y'all have a great rest of your weekend

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_05]: and your sunday and then your monday is full of positives and that y'all have a great week

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_05]: so and we'll see you next week bye everybody bye everybody