Raising Values: Kids in the Digital Age

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Raising Values Podcast, where the traditional family talks.

[00:00:06] You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher and Spotify, and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram.

[00:00:12] You can support the Raising Values podcast through Patreon. The Langillian are behind the mic and we hope you enjoy the show.

[00:00:30] Good morning and welcome back to Raising Values.

[00:00:34] I got to look five seconds before the start because I asked her who's going to introduce me, she said it doesn't matter, but the problem is when one of us doesn't like decide who's going to introduce either or neither of us does, or we both try to.

[00:00:46] It always happens though. I mean someone always will do it.

[00:00:51] We have to make this show a little bit more.

[00:00:53] I used to get really nervous when we first started and was like, no you introduce. I can't do it.

[00:00:57] But anyway, welcome back to Raising Values. I'm Gillian.

[00:01:01] Second the introduction we're doing.

[00:01:03] I think we've made this awkward enough.

[00:01:06] Anyway, so today, well, do we have any business first before we get started?

[00:01:12] I've been harping harping harping on the Women Who Prep Conference the 19th is the last day.

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[00:01:38] You get an awesome cool swag bag, I mean swag box.

[00:01:41] If you go to Raising Values Instagram, you can see me unboxing the box and it's really cool.

[00:01:46] What's in the box? I said that.

[00:01:49] And then you actually get access to all the content through July.

[00:01:56] So the only other business I can think of other than Prepper Camp September, like we talk about that every show, but YouTube very recently started their own podcast service.

[00:02:11] I don't know why you would come on YouTube to listen to audio only when that's already on iTunes and Spotify and 10,000 other places.

[00:02:22] But I went ahead and ported our RSS feed for the Audio Only shows onto YouTube podcast.

[00:02:29] So if that's a thing, it's there now.

[00:02:32] But I feel like if you've been listening to audio podcasts, you've been listening to it on one of the platforms that's been around for like 10 years.

[00:02:39] Or at least five years.

[00:02:41] Not YouTube being Johnny cum lately to the game.

[00:02:45] But I digress. It's there now.

[00:02:48] That's cool.

[00:02:49] But then again, so are all these streams.

[00:02:51] So you can watch us gesticulate and shoot each other, come hither looks and all that.

[00:02:57] You and me, not me and Andrew. That'd be weird.

[00:03:02] Anyway, Nina, I'm glad you got your box.

[00:03:05] I'm glad to know that you're going.

[00:03:07] That's really awesome because I know that that was something you wanted to do.

[00:03:09] Yeah, there was great stuff in the box and it was kind of weird and I even kind of stopped and paused on the unboxing video that I did when when I got the little car clip from Refuge Medical.

[00:03:27] It was the seatbelt cutter and glass breaker.

[00:03:31] And that was the thing you and I were talking about just the other day that you needed that I needed in my car.

[00:03:36] And so, yeah, that was that was really awesome that we did that or that I got that.

[00:03:41] So, yeah, did it by chance come on a little key ring or something or land here?

[00:03:46] Okay.

[00:03:47] Yeah. So cool stuff.

[00:03:49] Anyway, so today's episode is kids in the digital age.

[00:03:53] This one is I was actually recommended by my sister who has grandchildren to are in their teens and the rest are little.

[00:04:09] So they're like, I think, I think she's in second grade, she may be in third grade.

[00:04:14] Anyway, any younger one of them just started walking.

[00:04:17] So, so kids in the digital age and then she said bullying like I guess maybe her grandkids are, you know, bullied at school.

[00:04:26] Maybe everyone has always been bullied.

[00:04:28] I do feel like we've done a show like this before where we've talked about especially we just did the one with kids with cell phones, but kids in the digital age and then bullying all that stuff.

[00:04:40] And it's like she said because I even texted her back, I was like, I feel like we've done a bullying episode before.

[00:04:48] And she goes, well, bullying changes and you can never get enough information about bullying with your kids.

[00:04:54] So, and it's true.

[00:04:56] So, and I feel like that one.

[00:04:58] And I feel like the last time we talked about yes, yes.

[00:05:03] So, Kyle Wilson just said that he hopes I washed my cup because I'm guessing he was listening to the last episode.

[00:05:08] Matter of fact, I said, you know, I did and yes, it was thoroughly disinfected the next day.

[00:05:13] But I still think about that from time to time when I when I look down into this cup.

[00:05:18] But I feel like the last time we kind of semi broached the subject, it was more from the perspective of like we were worried about like what's the what's the non scary way to say like somebody predating on your

[00:05:32] children like that was our primary concern was that someone like an adult would have access to your child because of social media and because of because of cell phone use and everything else.

[00:05:44] And at the time we weren't really discussing this as much in the vein of like another child, your child's age bullying your child is electronic means, you know, like a lot of a lot of our perspective at that in that episode was really more

[00:05:59] really more tailored around the fact that like there are adults in the world who want to hurt children and the ability to, you know, like if somebody wants to physically harm my child right now they have to get through that locked door past a very large angry father

[00:06:15] and angry mother.

[00:06:18] Yes.

[00:06:19] So like there's there's physical barriers in place but once you give them unrestricted social media use all they have to do is find them on the internet.

[00:06:28] And that's terrifying.

[00:06:30] But this is I see this topic more in the guys of where we're concerned about cyber bullying, which is a trend that like I couldn't point to exactly when it first came on to people's radar but it is certain that certainly seems to be escalating as

[00:06:45] children become more and more interconnected and especially as that age at which they get interconnected goes goes younger.

[00:06:52] Yeah.

[00:06:53] And despite the fact that like the parents of most of these children are of a generation where like they may not have grown up with social media, but they've had social media in their lives long enough that they shouldn't be completely ignorant to this.

[00:07:05] Right.

[00:07:06] Yet the parents still seem to have no understanding of or appreciation for the ability to like monitor what's going on with their children through these outlets that they even can that they even should.

[00:07:19] I mean, it's the Wild Wild West and some households.

[00:07:22] Oh, absolutely.

[00:07:24] And then that's on top of the fact that even if you even if you say cyberbullying is not a thing, which it is.

[00:07:32] You know, like even even our generation is very familiar with the fact that like there are there are things that are not age appropriate to children that are literally a Google search away.

[00:07:43] And only really within the last couple of years has there been an effort to like at the state level to mandate age verification on a lot of those things to force these content providers to put those put those things that are of adult nature behind a

[00:08:01] wall so that children cannot get access to them.

[00:08:04] But even then that's on a state by state basis.

[00:08:07] And even then quite frankly there are there are internet sites that are hosted overseas that don't care at all what your state says.

[00:08:19] So it's still the Wild Wild West.

[00:08:21] Yeah.

[00:08:23] And then what was really what's been really eye opening for me so I am in charge of all of the student technology at school.

[00:08:33] So I manage all of their Chromebooks, I manage all of their Google everything I manage all of it.

[00:08:39] And for a long time now, me and the guidance counselor and the principal we've all been well especially this year really trying to get some software to upload onto these computers so that we can

[00:08:58] creep on them is what the kids said you're creeping on me.

[00:09:02] This is creepy.

[00:09:03] Well wait a second.

[00:09:04] So we did we ended up getting a software that monitors behind the scenes actively like during I can like pull up their Chromebooks any any one of their student Chromebooks on my computer and see what they're doing like live action.

[00:09:19] I can close their tabs I can chat with them and say hey you need to get back on task or this isn't appropriate.

[00:09:26] We're blocking this or whatever.

[00:09:28] And I get daily reports on all sorts of things.

[00:09:32] So this program actually monitors what they're writing about in Google Docs or in spreadsheets or anything like that.

[00:09:39] And there are words that are already.

[00:09:44] What's the word?

[00:09:46] Blacklisted.

[00:09:47] Well, yeah, blacklisted for the software but we can add more to it.

[00:09:51] But what it's doing is it's looking through everything that these kids are doing and it's saying different things.

[00:09:58] It's giving me a report on what songs they're listening to like I get the title of the song.

[00:10:03] I get the lyrics of the song.

[00:10:05] I get flags when the lyrics are really bad words and then the report so that I pulled the report when I came back from Costa Rica.

[00:10:14] And I had five students that were flagged for the lyrics of the songs that they were listening to.

[00:10:20] And then it shows me the words that were flagged and y'all I blush easily but I was blushing.

[00:10:27] It was the stuff that they were listening to I don't listen to that kind of music.

[00:10:32] And the fact that these kids one knew where to find the songs which is easy to do on Spotify and all those different YouTube, all that stuff.

[00:10:40] But the fact that they knew those songs and when confronted well my mom and dad let me listen to those songs.

[00:10:48] What?

[00:10:49] It was like are you kidding me do you know what your child is listening to?

[00:10:53] So very pornographic, very vulgar, very I mean made me blush.

[00:11:00] Cardi B, Nicki Minaj music.

[00:11:02] Noss X there was and then some I don't know because I don't listen to this music.

[00:11:07] But it was just it was awful.

[00:11:10] It was offensive.

[00:11:11] It was just gross.

[00:11:12] So again, Miss Rabila had to have a conversation with middle schoolers about what's appropriate and what's not appropriate and then put the fear of God in them of I can see and so I should turn my computer around.

[00:11:23] And I had the screen up where all of their screens were live on my computer.

[00:11:28] And some of them like oh that's so cool and the other ones others were like that is so creepy that you can see this.

[00:11:34] And so I started like shutting down their computers or you know sending the messages like I can do this and I was like not only can I do that but your principal, your guidance counselor and all of your teachers that use Chromebooks can do this in their classroom.

[00:11:48] So it started to make them more aware of what they're doing.

[00:11:53] So I'm hoping that we start to see a decline on this.

[00:11:55] However, what it what we were seeing that prompted us to get this stuff was bullying through Google Slides, which is like PowerPoint, because they can share those things throughout the school.

[00:12:11] They can share those with each other.

[00:12:13] And so they were bullying each other through that they're bullying each other on online games like look it, which some teachers use as like a vocabulary.

[00:12:22] It's like a testing website kind of thing like a game show kind of thing.

[00:12:27] But what they would do is you can enter your own name.

[00:12:30] And so they were entering names that were just not appropriate, you know, so it was they were bullying through that kind of stuff.

[00:12:38] They were writing things in docs that were just unbelievable.

[00:12:46] It was unbelievable what they were writing about.

[00:12:49] And then it would be so silly to share that with teachers, which is really where the crackdown started.

[00:12:55] It was a shared document that I think this student probably meant well by it.

[00:13:03] But the content in the document was like hold on.

[00:13:07] This this is not appropriate.

[00:13:10] So I'm glad for that.

[00:13:12] I'm glad that at least now we can have some sort of safety measure to to get in front of the bullying at schools.

[00:13:22] Now we're a young, not a young school, we're not a young school, we are small school.

[00:13:27] So it's going to be easier for me and the other teachers, principal guidance counselor administration to monitor this kind of stuff.

[00:13:34] But in a bigger school, that doesn't happen.

[00:13:39] The other thing that we added that's going to happen on Monday is it's a mental health part of this anyway.

[00:13:50] It's mental health part of the software where there's going to be other keywords that they can monitor.

[00:13:56] And so or if say for instance, a child clicks on a banner or an ad on a website that they're looking at and it's about suicide or it's about this or that.

[00:14:06] So we'll get a flag or an alert that says hey this this student did this wrote this clicked this whatever.

[00:14:12] Here's the last 15 minutes of their searches there whatever they did on their computer.

[00:14:17] You need to take a look at this maybe there needs to be an intervention.

[00:14:20] So and I know that that's hard to think about you know our second through seventh graders are the ones that have Chromebooks, but suicide.

[00:14:28] And I know I probably can't say that on whatever you flagged on YouTube for saying that word.

[00:14:33] It's one of the leading causes of death and children.

[00:14:36] You know is is that awful nasty word self harm self harm.

[00:14:41] Yeah, so.

[00:14:43] So I'm really glad for that but that is just one aspect of where your child is being introduced to digital learning and digital anything in the digital age then you have the cell phones and you have, you know, video games that you can access anyone in the world to play.

[00:15:02] And that's something that we're going to talk about with Piper and what she does because she does play.

[00:15:07] She does one game now that she plays where she can she has acts people have access to her from all over the world.

[00:15:14] And so we've set ground rules for that.

[00:15:16] It does sound Orwellian you're right but it's our children and arch in like I told my sixth graders the other day you are not old enough to be, you know, carte blanche to the Internet.

[00:15:28] You are not old enough your brain is not developed.

[00:15:30] It is not safe for you to have to have people access you on the Internet.

[00:15:36] I'm sorry I'm getting on my high horse.

[00:15:38] Those kids are children their kids, their children.

[00:15:42] They do not understand the things that are out there and as a teacher and as a mom it is important and my duty to protect them from the psychopaths that are on the Internet.

[00:15:57] Take it back a couple of months ago.

[00:15:59] We were having trouble with kids gaming on their Chromebooks and so they would find all sorts of websites and what I ended up telling them was I can't keep up because every single day someone is creating a website.

[00:16:15] An adult is creating a website for children that you think is safe to play but it's not.

[00:16:21] It's all adults.

[00:16:22] It's adults lying to you that they're children.

[00:16:24] You have they have access to you.

[00:16:26] You have access to them there when I pulled up some of the search histories and things like that and I went to those websites that the kids were visiting.

[00:16:35] I was it was it was enough that I went to the principal's office and I said this day for my computer.

[00:16:44] This is what our children are looking at.

[00:16:47] This is what our children have access to and this is the person that has access to our kids right now.

[00:16:55] It was a live video that was going on live video and I said this has to stop.

[00:17:01] This is not safe.

[00:17:05] Kids are so easily influenced again their brains are so they're not your brain doesn't develop until you're 25 years old.

[00:17:15] These are second through seventh graders so they're so easily influenced.

[00:17:20] They're so easily taken into different directions and peer pressured into different things and I mean remember when you were a kid how just different things affected you different things that people said affected you in different ways that people acted affected you.

[00:17:35] Now imagine that free range to the world to have access to your child wouldn't you want some sort of Orwellian capability to control and protect your children.

[00:17:48] I think I would obviously I would because I pushed to have this software for our kids and as a parent of a student at this school.

[00:17:58] I would have I.

[00:18:02] I probably would have been a little upset knowing that it just it took just now to get this we've had Chromebook since covid why did it take five years to get something like this.

[00:18:16] And I think a lot of it at least at my school and I will say this is because we are a small school we handled covid differently than the public schools did and things like that so but now.

[00:18:30] I'm sorry technology is just such a thing it is everywhere kids have access to it all day every day and if you don't put a stop to some of the the access points that kids have.

[00:18:44] I mean you'll you get what you get what you get can I get him yes I'm sorry I know there was a Gilean rant that never happens.

[00:18:53] First of all I did want to point out that Stuart got on me and I have to pass it on to you about when we address a listeners comment on the streams without telling the audience that audio only what they comment was sorry but I couldn't get a word in.

[00:19:11] I got on my high horse now to Joe's point about this sounding or well in I would simply put this in terms of like you know years and years and years ago.

[00:19:28] The bullying was largely happening either face to face where there is still some opportunity for an adult to intervene or it would maybe happen in notes that were getting passed but it was still physical.

[00:19:39] The fact that this bullying has now could like come into a purely electronic realm where without some kind of specialized.

[00:19:51] Go ahead you had 10 minutes I get.

[00:19:55] Without having some kind of some kind of electronic monitoring there's simply these the bullying is now taken on a form and is in a medium that is so.

[00:20:05] Fleeting and so easily destroyed after it's after its impact or its use that I feel like something like what you're describing this kind of software monitoring it's required at this point and that's purely because if not then this happens in a vacuum where there is no guidance and there is no oversight and as you've seen when children believe that no one is watching.

[00:20:30] There's some I'd like to think like ours who have a healthy enough appreciation for consequences but they've also been pipers been raised to in such a way that like she becomes visibly uncomfortable in the presence of certain subjects because she knows either a that's not that's

[00:20:49] we should be talking about that in public period or be that's that's a that's way above my pay grade my age like she and she's not comfortable having those conversations she's only somewhat comfortable having those conversations with you and I behind closed doors because she just and she's been taught that those are private things we don't talk about those.

[00:21:09] Sometimes not even just with just me not you.

[00:21:12] And I've told her for years now because you know she's a young she's a young lady she's about to be 12 things are starting to happen and I've told her I'm like I am always here if you have a question but don't feel like you have to talk to dad if you'd rather talk to mom because of the two of us only one of us has ever been an 11 year old girl so only one of us can give you that experience.

[00:21:38] All I can do is be willing to listen and be like wow that sounds like something but I've never been an 11 year old girl you know I know in 2024 that you have to say that like I've never been a little girl for.

[00:21:51] But but I yeah but I digress like and I do agree with what the other thing Joe was saying is that I don't think the problem is computers in the classroom because I don't see that as a problem necessarily but I do believe that this comes back to a severe lack of parenting because again.

[00:22:06] Like these children I understand that kids are going to bully some kids will but the search topics that they're looking for the media that they're consuming those are things that their parents have very obviously never told them are not okay.

[00:22:25] And the fact that you have a kids just flat out say well my parents let me listen to this it's like well first of all that sucks second of all not on a school not on school property.

[00:22:36] Yeah that's when I always harp yeah not your Chromebook it is my Chromebook but all I can tell you you know and then this this is going to sound like something I've said before like parents you either take seriously the influences that you allow your child to be exposed to when they're young.

[00:22:55] Or you're going to have to deal with the consequences of that lack of attention later in life and so is your kid.

[00:23:02] You know there's an old trope that if you do a bad enough job of raising your kids you get to raise your grandkids too.

[00:23:07] Which some people kind of get side-eyed about but it's kind of the point of like if you screw your kids up bad enough they're not capable of being parents and when they inevitably get pregnant you wind up raising those kids too because mom and mom or dad can't be a parent.

[00:23:22] Because you never taught them how to be a parent you never parented them.

[00:23:27] And well and back to Joe's comment again it said the problem is computers in the classrooms and a severe lack of parenting I agree with both of those.

[00:23:37] I am the STEM teacher and technology teacher so what it's crazy about my classroom we only use those Chromebooks when we have to do typing tests like I'm teaching my kids who are about to be a parent.

[00:23:52] We can move to high school how to type like keyboarding.

[00:23:55] Coding is you know that's obviously a big thing they all need to learn how to code because that's where job fields are going.

[00:24:04] And there's one more thing that we do and I can't remember what it is now.

[00:24:09] Research maybe?

[00:24:11] They don't do so much research in my classroom.

[00:24:13] I'm thinking like whole school.

[00:24:15] But so when I started this program on Thursday and Friday I was going over it with my kids especially my middle schoolers they were very upset to hear that they could only access five websites in my class just five.

[00:24:29] Because you can a teacher with this program can say you only have two tabs open three tabs open one tab open.

[00:24:35] And these are the only websites that you can visit during this time block which is when you're in my STEM class.

[00:24:41] And so I will most likely keep it at that to where they if if technology is a thing for that day then those are the only websites and they that they can visit.

[00:24:54] I do agree that computers in the classrooms is weird we are seeing the downfall of that.

[00:25:02] Is it maybe a more fair specific comment to say unrestrained computer usage in the classroom is the problem.

[00:25:10] Because I feel like yes that is a problem but I feel like having computers their handwriting they can't write.

[00:25:18] They don't spell but you just said the computers were used for certain purposes from my class.

[00:25:23] Okay then I'm going to repeat what I said.

[00:25:26] Okay unrestrained computer usage in the classroom which means just having the computer to do random things not specific tasks that require a computer.

[00:25:36] I guess I don't understand what you're trying to get at.

[00:25:37] I'm saying that if they don't need to use a computer they shouldn't be using it.

[00:25:41] Yes but if they do need it they should be using it.

[00:25:43] Computers in the classroom says computers in the classroom for any purpose.

[00:25:49] But I think and Joe if you're still watching maybe clarify I think he means there are there are schools where all they do is on computers.

[00:25:58] They type all their research papers they do all of their notes is on a computer everything is on a computer.

[00:26:04] There's a problem with that.

[00:26:05] They don't know how yeah there's their penmanship is awful.

[00:26:10] They don't know how to spell words there is just such a lack there's been such a downfall in the way that in communication just basic communication writing skills.

[00:26:21] So he's clarifying computers have destroyed penmanship spelling and grammar.

[00:26:26] That's what I'm trying to say.

[00:26:28] I'll agree with that.

[00:26:29] I don't know.

[00:26:31] I am of two minds of this because you and I you and I grew up in a weird transitional time period where I don't feel like computers in the classroom were a thing really until probably college.

[00:26:45] Yeah I mean social media didn't become a thing until college.

[00:26:49] So I feel like maybe that's something we should be returning to is the fact that like these kids have the age at which computers and put into their hands push back maybe to at least high school because on the one hand I agree with everything Joe saying and I hear what you're saying.

[00:27:04] But on the flip side of things I look at like my career post college and I can tell you that like I could I did I do 99% of my work on a computer.

[00:27:18] I the forms the documents the things I the things I type that's all done on computer none of it's done handwriting anymore it's too slow.

[00:27:27] Like and admittedly like if you're one of those people that has to do the two finger pecking on your keyboard you could probably write faster than you can type but for me that can type 100 plus words a minute I can type faster than I can write.

[00:27:39] So and then you talk about like all the Excel work I do and everything else.

[00:27:44] I mean that's all half financial math and half programming but like I don't know I'm conflicted about this because on the one hand you're right there is that effect to push the computer usage down to that loathe an age.

[00:27:58] But on the flip side of things most of these careers because you brought up coding they're not going to do that with the pen and paper they're going to have to learn how to do this on computer so it's it's given to yeah well and then that's what I'm going to do.

[00:28:08] That's why the second technology class but second graders with computers to me is it is.

[00:28:14] Reading books they're reading books on the computer which get it people use a candle to read books and things like that but where obviously the way that we were raised in the way that we did school when we were in elementary middle school and even high school worked it worked and I don't know.

[00:28:36] I don't know but I do get students that say I don't want to use my Chromebook I don't want to get on my Chromebook I have students that say my handwriting is so ugly.

[00:28:48] My handwriting is so ugly I have students that say I don't know how to spell I just don't know how to spell words and in my head I'm going well hooked on phonics work for me but you know.

[00:29:01] I just heard that in like in the commercial in my head but they don't I don't know I'm not a lower elementary school teacher I don't know how phonics are taught if they're even taught anymore but spelling is atrocious it is atrocious and I'm so glad for teachers that have started counting off points for misspelled words.

[00:29:24] You have to know where it to me it's did we go wrong because COVID happened or did we go wrong because this is now the platform in which we teach our kids so and this is what accepted well and this is way more than just way more than just this one little topic but like I believe that I believe that COVID accelerated a lot of things like there were there were trends I've seen in the workplace that like the push toward.

[00:29:54] It's telework and remote work that was dramatically accelerated because of COVID because there was the push to have people no longer be in person and work from home became a really big thing.

[00:30:05] Remote learning for young children became a thing all of a sudden which was never done before I don't think it was six that successful personally but I guess what I'm saying is like I see I see trends that COVID kind of like put a rocket up his butt and shoved it down the road.

[00:30:21] Yeah, that's what Joe just said COVID accelerated the problem.

[00:30:25] Yeah, like I think and at the same time because of those trends have been accelerated so severely I feel as though things like computer usage would have slowly crept down through the ages and there might have been a point at which people said this isn't working so well or well we need some monitoring software but because it was kind of shoved in so fast y'all are dealing with us on the back end now because it's four years later and.

[00:30:51] We're still we're still figuring out the effects of everything that was done during COVID everything that was mandated upon these kids during COVID.

[00:30:59] So I don't know that I wouldn't say COVID caused it but I agree with Joe COVID accelerated COVID COVID turn the dial on this move of pushing technology on to kids.

[00:31:12] It turned that dial up to 11 all of a sudden instead of it being a nice slow progressions and I think may that some that may even be the reason that parents are so behind the eight ball.

[00:31:21] You know, because like you and I observe we observed it last night as a matter of fact families sitting down eating at our local taco shop and the first thing to do is they sit down and they put the iPad down from the kid and you did the it drives me nuts to sit there and watch the screen just to see what happens.

[00:31:42] I'm just globing in front of this like three four year old eyes because they never learn how to self sue they never learn how to behave they never learn how to sit still they never they never learn how to interact with their parents because they're not interacting with their parents they're just sitting there drooling down their shirts staring at a screen.

[00:31:59] And I see those trends. I don't think COVID accelerated I don't think COVID created any of these trends. I think COVID accelerated them because what happened during COVID was a lot of parents were suddenly working at home and the kids were home to and the parents could not work and take care of the kids so they put them in front of the screen to hypnotize them for eight hours so they get some work done.

[00:32:20] And in some instances that's fine that's you know sometimes you just have to do what you have to do and that sometimes you have to do what you have to do but my problem with that my problem that statement is.

[00:32:32] Way too many parents use as a cop out for 16 hours they put put a screen in front of your kid but what I was going to finish saying was it should have stopped it you know that that was a crutch that you could have used during COVID when you were home with the kids while you had to work and then you had to go back to work.

[00:32:49] And the kids didn't have school and things like that. Some parents especially I'm thinking like single parents or whatever who still had to keep a roof over their kid's head and feed them.

[00:33:01] That was the option that was the babysitter that was the teacher that was everything that they couldn't be in that moment but as soon as time shifted and things started changing and going into a different direction.

[00:33:14] My opinion was when that should have been pulled back but parents have gotten so lazy and used to it and rely on that little break that technology gives them that they continue it.

[00:33:32] And so kids and like Joe said you know lack in pen penmanship and grammar and things like that but they're also losing.

[00:33:42] They're also losing us the skill of talking to an adult how to talk to adults how to talk to their friends what to say because they see.

[00:33:50] Social skills. Yeah their social skills are so far underdeveloped it's scary it's like you're dealing my ideal with some middle schoolers that act like preschoolers and socially inept they are socially inept they don't know how to act.

[00:34:05] And the problem with it right now is my middle schoolers or just middle schoolers in general right now were the COVID kids that were kindergarten through fourth grade.

[00:34:17] Yeah and so they lost valuable time valuable time with friends and learning those social skills and learning all of those things they didn't get it.

[00:34:29] So in the longer they go the harder it's going to be to teach them these things they were so secluded for so long.

[00:34:36] And let's also lump into this not necessarily your middle schoolers but there have been very well documented trends that came out of COVID that masking toddlers has severely stunted their ability to recognize facial facial features of the bush it's severely stunted their their early developmental speech patterns.

[00:34:56] Like I don't know I feel we could do a whole another hour long episode about all the ways that I feel like our response to COVID screwed our kids up.

[00:35:07] Yeah if we want to get nuked off the internet but you know we need to get that doctor on when we do that episode of God's business card.

[00:35:15] I know we need to do that Andrew keeps texting me when are you going to get the pediatrician on I need to.

[00:35:20] But yeah I hear what you're saying I in typical Phil fashion am extraordinarily critical of parenting and I'm very unforgiving of the excuse of they had to do what they had to do or they needed a break because

[00:35:35] I'm sorry I just I don't buy that like I tell Piper all the time being dad doesn't come with breaks being dead is a 24 hour day seven day a week job you are always dad it doesn't mean you have to be 100% all the time.

[00:35:51] But it does mean that like to me the word break just doesn't calculate into my vocabulary.

[00:35:56] I guess what I'm not break is not the word I'm trying to use.

[00:36:01] I'm think about the time when you were in that office and Piper was home.

[00:36:06] If did at any point did you were just were you ever just like I'm on a conference call I need you to be quiet right now I need you to just be still be quiet and did it ever cross your mind I'm just going to give you this tablet for just the 20 minutes that I'm on this call.

[00:36:24] Or did you think I'm going to do this conference call and I'm going to referee her teach her school while I'm doing this.

[00:36:32] Nine times a 10 me honestly I never I never gave her a screen to shut her up I would tell her you have to be quiet.

[00:36:42] And yeah that was that involves some fights between me and her at times we were talking she and I I don't know why but she brought this up yesterday is she was she was watching something where like apparently 18 year olds are romantic.

[00:36:54] And she was just like romanticizing the covid years and wishing they could return to them because they were off of school and it was it was just like early summer it was like an extended summer break is they didn't have to go to school and they could they just lounge around the house all day.

[00:37:06] It was some well it's set her it's set her clean off because she remembers all this and she was very emphatic about the fact that like covid was covid sucked like I couldn't see my friends we couldn't go I couldn't go to school.

[00:37:19] You know she remembers all that very negatively and she brought up having to work for having to be having to do schoolwork from home and me suddenly becoming her teacher.

[00:37:30] So we talked about this literally just yesterday I think yeah but a lot of it was really the fact that like you know she did not she no longer had a separation between school and home.

[00:37:41] She was home and she felt like home she's doing home stuff not doing school stuff and I am not I don't I think I'm capable of teaching children but I'm not certainly not wired for it.

[00:37:53] And some of it was just me and her butting heads she did not want to do the work she was at home she wanted to lay on the couch she wanted to sleep in she wanted to go play outside she wanted to do anything early to do schoolwork at home.

[00:38:04] It was also hard for her to log on and see that half of her class wasn't there but she had to be there.

[00:38:09] Yeah well that that that also goes back to probably more than half that also goes back to conversations that she and I have had about the fact that like the fact that all your classmates are being whatever is not doesn't give you license to do so because we're your mom and dad we don't think that's right but I digress.

[00:38:27] So I don't know I hear what you're saying the word break the word I need a break has always just like twisted my stomach up because what I'm hearing when a person says I need a break is I'm tired of being mom and dad.

[00:38:43] And my point of view is like suck it up like suck it up your your mom for that would you think when I like take an extra long bath or need to go outside and read by myself or whatever because I need to do something about it.

[00:38:57] I need those breaks I need those mental health breaks.

[00:39:01] But is it that you need a break from being like wife and mom.

[00:39:04] Yeah.

[00:39:05] Oh, I need a break from people.

[00:39:08] I need a break from people talking to me I need a break from people touching me I need a break I just need that.

[00:39:15] I need it to just be me.

[00:39:18] I mean what did you think it was.

[00:39:23] I don't know I don't see it that way.

[00:39:25] Well that's the way it is.

[00:39:27] Well but to me that doesn't mean you stop being mom and that you don't that doesn't mean you stop being mom and wife.

[00:39:33] Well I don't know I will never stop being mom and wife but I don't think it's fair to say that a parent who needs a break is a lazy parent or whatever because parents need breaks.

[00:39:44] Parents don't need 16 hour long breaks.

[00:39:48] Okay you are being you're trying to prove a point that's not even trying to be made.

[00:39:56] No I'm not trying to prove a point you and I are saying different things.

[00:39:59] Okay well listen to what I'm saying.

[00:40:01] You're saying that you occasionally need a temporary break to kind of like just have a moment to yourself.

[00:40:07] Yes.

[00:40:08] I am saying I am observing parents out there in the real world who they take what you're saying and then they push it to well I just need an afternoon.

[00:40:19] I just need a weekend I just needed this I just needed that and it's their excuse is I need a break to be a lazy crap parent because they don't want to deal with their kids.

[00:40:30] It's not I need a moment it's I don't want to be here and I don't want to deal with you ever.

[00:40:36] So what is it then that they're saying the same thing I get that I get the whole the parents who are saying I don't want to deal with you I don't want to be with you whatever which is really what I'm saying.

[00:40:47] Is what I'm saying is they're not saying I don't want to deal with you they're saying I need a break what they're what they're intending though or what their actions are showing is I don't want to be mom it's easier just give you a screen and shut you up so I can go have my have my wine and hang out with my friends and go do whatever.

[00:41:05] It's easier to dump you off with grandma grandpa so I can go out party in a night it's easier to do this it's more fun.

[00:41:12] But where do you draw the line as yourself as Phil of we're dropping piper off at her grandparents for the weekend so that we can go have a break just the two of us and we're dropping piper off at her grandparents for the weekend so that we can have a break just the two of us when it impacts her negatively.

[00:41:32] So it's okay to do it periodically I don't think there's anything wrong doing it periodically but to me the ultimate signpost for what is what is for me the ultimate signpost of parenting is going to be if it harms your children if it harms your kid in any way you're not doing you're not doing parenting right because what I what I eventually gave myself grace on when piper was young was.

[00:41:54] This is totally off subject by the way but I cannot pour from an empty cup.

[00:42:00] I had to get out I had to go drive I had to go to the store I had to do things by myself behind a locked door if I needed to so that I could refill my cup so that I could be present for my family.

[00:42:15] That was not me being lazy that was not me being I don't want to be mom right now although it was I don't want to be mom I don't want to be wife right now I just need to be Gillian.

[00:42:26] That was not me trying to skirt out of my responsibilities of people with with y'all or with my responsibilities in general.

[00:42:37] That was me knowing that if I don't do this I'm going to break and then that person that you get is going to be a lot worse than had you just let me take a break and if it was a 20 minute break or four hour break it needed to be what it needed to be.

[00:42:55] Do you think that may have been somewhat skewed by the fact that at that moment you were dealing with literally mental health condition.

[00:43:04] I don't think it's skewed at all I think people just need to take breaks and it's okay for a mom or a dad to say I need this time I've got to do this by myself I've got to be by myself there is actually I'm not going to say this right but it's like a condition that people get and it is mental health.

[00:43:25] It all is mental health but the constant touching and the grabbing and the whatever and then husband comes home and it's all you know smoochy moochie and it's like just stop touching me I need people to stop touching me what.

[00:43:39] What read Joe's comment she's on a small scale he's on a large scale yes I know we're arguing about different things but what I'm trying to do is get I'm trying to get him to.

[00:43:53] Understand that parents who need to take breaks aren't lazy parents who need to give their child a.

[00:44:02] An iPad.

[00:44:06] So that they can just have a moment it's not they're not bad parents I don't agree with shoving an iPad in front of your kids face at the dinner table I think what if their parent needs break right at the dinner table you're being a.

[00:44:19] Now I'm kind of be now I'm kind of being a little needly but my point is.

[00:44:25] You're talking about you're taking what I'm saying and you're conflating it to me parents are not allowed breaks ever.

[00:44:32] That's I'm saying no I'm saying I don't see I don't see it that way I don't believe that I take breaks I feel like I'm always dad I'm always husband.

[00:44:43] If my wife or daughter need me I don't care how empty the cup is I'm going to go get the reserve out and we're going to pour from it because my wife daughter need me I'll refill the cup later.

[00:44:53] But I do feel like there is a huge chasm between what you're describing which is I need a break I need a temporary break for my own mental health.

[00:45:03] And what I'm calling out which is parents that just do not want to deal with their kids so they habitually repetitively continuously screen hypnotize them.

[00:45:15] That is not appropriate there's no defense for it and I don't know the reason I'm making this assessment is because you said sometimes parents need a break.

[00:45:25] What I'm saying is that parents who do this that we both agree is it appropriate say the same thing they say I just need a break.

[00:45:32] But you don't just be a literal you don't people say I got it.

[00:45:37] I'm being literal with what they say because that's what they say they say the same thing you do but it means something different when you do it for eight hours.

[00:45:46] Do you know what? Yeah, hard is sometimes to podcast with your spouse because she knows I take things literally and yet you are using about them figuratively and I have a literal person.

[00:45:56] People say they literally they meet things literally sometimes you have to think figuratively you have to think about the other side of the coin.

[00:46:04] Okay, but these people that I'm talking about they say the same thing they say I need a break just like you were you're you're throwing that out there I need a break.

[00:46:15] But you need a break temporarily they need a break because they don't want they don't want to be parents.

[00:46:21] Joe is trying to get you off the subject look Phil new gun covid he got on his own rant.

[00:46:29] Thank you Joe anyway so we totally got off of digital age kids in the digital age but I think I think it all it all you know goes together.

[00:46:42] Yeah, definitely goes all together and I do think the very core of it is mental health.

[00:46:51] I think we have to we have to watch what we're doing with what our kids are doing in the digital age because of their mental health.

[00:46:59] Piper asked us a question last night at dinner will I ever have social media so Piper doesn't have a cell phone yet that actually works works like a cell phone but one day she will.

[00:47:12] And her question was will I ever have social media did she ask about social media she asked about tech talk specifically she will first she asked about social media then she asked about tech talk.

[00:47:22] And I am sitting across the table from her and I'm cutting up whatever and I look at her goes no you will not you will not have social media and if you do download social media.

[00:47:33] We will know about it and there will be consequences you will not have social media and then Phil goes when you're an adult.

[00:47:40] Well OK so.

[00:47:43] And then she said I wish I could have ticked off and I was like absolutely not yeah ticked off is digital brain cancer.

[00:47:50] Remind me what the name of the show was that was on Netflix it was the whole documentary about the algorithms and social media.

[00:47:58] It's killing me that I can't remember what it is because it was social agenda something anyway she's going to look while I talk.

[00:48:05] I think that's what she's doing.

[00:48:07] But I explain to Piper I'm like you know you have to understand that like social media is literally programmed and developed to be addictive.

[00:48:16] It is social dilemma social dilemma the algorithms are programmed to put things in front of you that make you that increase your screen time and usage of them they are that is the literal that is the literal definition of addictive.

[00:48:31] And they're designed to be this way and they're designed to be this way for adults so when you put it in the hands of as you said people don't people's brands don't fully develop till they're 25.

[00:48:42] I take your word on that because you know more about young you know early development than I do but when you put this in the hands of like five six seven eight year olds they don't have a freaking chance this is like handing them smack and just let them let them have a party they don't have a prayer.

[00:48:58] So my point of view to my daughter is like your social media use will be.

[00:49:06] I mean you pointed out the other day like we let her on YouTube even that is pretty tightly controlled and you and I are constantly like listening to and watching what she's watching so something inappropriate comes up comes across screen usually she'll shut it off before we can even tell her anything she knows.

[00:49:21] She knows that's not appropriate.

[00:49:24] But again I feel like to Joe's point earlier about like lack of parenting like we take parenting deathly serious and we're very involved with our child and we're very involved with what she's consuming and what she's being exposed to but my worry about social media about handing a kid Instagram or Facebook or Tiktok or anything

[00:49:45] Snapchat Snapchat.

[00:49:47] Yes they're the worries about bullying there's the worries about what they're going to be exposed to but there's also simple the simple fact that these these platforms are all designed from the ground up by very very intelligent people to mine data from users and to to literally meet the definition of being an addictive

[00:50:07] an addictive basically an addictive substance or an addictive whatever they're designed to add to you to staring at screens they're designed like I forget exactly the name for it but there's apparently a phenomena within the mental health profession right now where people are addicted to social media where they will literally sit there and they'll just scroll through Instagram

[00:50:26] for literally like an hour and a half two hours miss appointments miss work because and it's not because like it's not a conscious decision of oh I'm just going to miss work today I want to scroll through Instagram they are literally just scrolling

[00:50:39] scrolling scrolling and lose track of time or though their alarm will go off and they'll silence and keep scrolling their brain is shutting out all these things because they need the next hit they need to fix it's the it's the creepiest most terrifying thing to pull back from

[00:50:54] and look at from my 30,000 feet and then you want me to put this in the hands of my 11 12 year old child I would soon I would sooner put a brick of cocaine on the table and just you know let her learn the hard way that I let her have social media that sounds really extreme but it's it scares the hell out of me yeah it scares me that

[00:51:14] parents let their kids just play with the stuff willy-nilly did you know that our bodies are changing due to our phones yes and that is also creepy you know that the the ligaments in the back of our necks are actually extending throughout our lives because we spent so much time doing this

[00:51:32] but the bones at the base of our neck are becoming like a spiked almost because we constantly we're constantly doing this instead of holding our necks up and so our bones are evolving to accommodate for this isn't that terrifying all because of cell phones

[00:51:52] I gotta compliment the other day for hey of how like somebody asking about his prior service military because of how how my of my posture the fact that I do stand so straight back my neck is straight my head is straight up in the air and they were like

[00:52:06] were you in the army the Marines and I was like yeah and they were like I can tell cuz your posture you know most people you know they slouch the shoulders and punch forward and sloucher I yeah I got beat over the head with a K with a K pod for doing that

[00:52:18] maybe you need to start beating me with like whatever a K pod is y'all heard it I have permission no you don't it's not spousal abuse if you're correcting posture

[00:52:28] no no I just like I we got off subject again but like truthfully all these things I guess just are wrapping some of this up with a bow like

[00:52:44] I I don't know that I would totally sign off on the idea of not letting kids have exposure to computers until they're until like they're at a high school or 18 years old because even though I wasn't using computers you know regularly in the classroom when I was young

[00:52:59] like my father he ran a home business repairing personal computers and I had my first computer when I was like six you know so I've been playing with computers and typing and using mice and using windows I mean I think my first windows computer is probably like age nine

[00:53:16] and I definitely think that I definitely credit some of that with the fact that you know in my career like I've taken sir I've taken to certain computer programs very quickly and easily like I've been I've been playing with Microsoft Excel since my late teens

[00:53:31] think about that most most teenagers even in like the financial and the business sectors where I'm at most of them didn't really start learning Excel until they were out of college and they were at their workplace by then I already had six seven eight years under my belt playing with it

[00:53:46] so like on the one hand I agree and I'm very concerned about letting kids have unrestrained computer usage I think it's dangerous for the kids I think it in fight cyber bullying because these kids can do this stuff in a vacuum with no oversight

[00:54:01] I think it is destroying their ability to spell their ability to write their grammar

[00:54:06] um frankly I think it might be impacting their speaking ability think about it like that like we don't we we communicate things via email not the or about via chat we're not speaking to each other

[00:54:21] I mean even to this day like I'm working on a couple of high level projects at work right now and like we have weekly we have weekly virtual meetings because you can get so much done in an hour long conversation versus send 50,000 emails back and forth

[00:54:41] like I do think that I do think that these are all ultimately going to be deleterious for the kids I think that we as parents need to recognize that like the world you and I grew up in is gone

[00:54:54] yeah but there were but but there were some things that we should probably hang on to from that time period like progress for the sake of progress isn't a good thing if it ends up impacting the kids negatively

[00:55:09] any thoughts

[00:55:11] no I think I've gotten all my thoughts out for this episode

[00:55:14] are we gonna fight about needing breaks after this

[00:55:17] no just gonna keep going if I need to go

[00:55:21] as long as you think I'm a lazy parent or not

[00:55:23] as long as you don't do it for 12 hours straight

[00:55:26] why do you have to jab

[00:55:28] why do you have to jab

[00:55:30] you jab

[00:55:31] anyway no we're not gonna fight

[00:55:33] anyway well I think we got all of the important announcements out of the way so thanks for watching today and for

[00:55:43] bearing with us as we both had our own rants and then ranted with each other

[00:55:48] mom and daddy are fighting again

[00:55:50] mommy and daddy are fighting

[00:55:52] anyway I hope you'll have a great rest of your weekend and your Sunday and we will see you next week don't forget to go buy your tickets for women who break

[00:56:02] are we gonna do an episode next week

[00:56:07] Saturday we have plans Sunday

[00:56:09] yes Sunday we can

[00:56:11] okay we'll see y'all in a week then

[00:56:13] okay bye

[00:56:15] bye everybody

[00:56:32] you