Raising Values: Setting Boundaries

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Raising Values Podcast, where the traditional family talks. You can find

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[00:00:12] You can support the Raising Values Podcast through Patreon.

[00:00:16] Villangilian are behind the mic and we hope you enjoy this show.

[00:00:30] Welcome back to Raising Values. I have the camera like way off today for some reason.

[00:00:35] Why didn't we do a camera check? We did a mic check.

[00:00:40] Just saying, hello, good morning.

[00:00:45] I love you.

[00:00:47] She always asked me why we didn't do a camera check when we both know that I was ready to do a camera check way before you got here.

[00:00:54] Anyway, so we were ready for the go time.

[00:01:01] To be fair, we were out late last night and it's daylight savings time.

[00:01:08] There's multiple reasons to be off-kilter this morning.

[00:01:11] Yes, I guess so. Yeah, I was up all night coughing too.

[00:01:15] I woke up at 7 a.m. for absolutely no conceivable reason.

[00:01:21] Just an hour before my alarmist goes off and I'm awake.

[00:01:26] Yeah, no fun there. Anyway, so some business to get out of the way.

[00:01:31] Of course you have your Women Who Prep Conference that's next month.

[00:01:35] And I think that's it. I don't think there's anything else that we have to really promote right now.

[00:01:41] I mean, just the usual reminder of Prepper Camps in September if that's the thing you're into

[00:01:47] if you are Prepper Camps.com where you should go look for information at this point,

[00:01:53] like you're going to have a hard time finding your way into the campground itself.

[00:01:57] But there's hotels and Airbnb's and other options in the area.

[00:02:02] Yeah, I'm really not in the frame today.

[00:02:05] I'm just coming sit over here. How's that?

[00:02:08] That's fine.

[00:02:09] Okay. Well, today's episode we are talking about setting boundaries and relationships.

[00:02:14] As my wife sets her elbow in my lap. That is my bound. You don't have boundaries with me.

[00:02:19] Oh yes, I do. Yeah, you do. I know. Anyway, I'm recommended topic from your sister which is awesome.

[00:02:28] I think we've kind of talked about setting boundaries before and I feel like I always talk about the boundaries that I've been setting for myself.

[00:02:36] The boundaries are super important and there's a variety of ways to work that in any conversation.

[00:02:41] I think the title says relationships. I think we probably need to expound on that a little bit.

[00:02:48] You're setting boundaries for all sorts of interactions with different people.

[00:02:52] I was thinking this morning, doctors, you set your boundaries for your doctor and what you would...what?

[00:02:59] Well, I take relationships as a more open definition than just boyfriend, girlfriend, spouses.

[00:03:06] Like, relationship is just a relationship with anybody. Like with your doctor.

[00:03:11] Here, it's going to be one of those mornings isn't it? Yes. Great.

[00:03:16] Great. Hopefully. Oh good morning, John. I'm glad you're here so that you can...

[00:03:21] Witness my murder. I wasn't going to say that.

[00:03:24] I was going to say so that you can enlighten us with what you would have to say as well being enlightened today by this guy.

[00:03:34] Yeah, so setting boundaries in relationships.

[00:03:38] I've been doing this a lot in the last couple of years of setting boundaries for myself, mainly just because of my mental health.

[00:03:46] It is becoming easier and easier for me to set those boundaries.

[00:03:51] I have always been a people pleaser. I've always been a...what is the role of someone you might hear our cat?

[00:04:00] I think she has a UTI and so she's going to look at the bananas.

[00:04:05] But anyway, right now she's trying to wake up Piper and she's very upset that we're at this table for some reason.

[00:04:12] But anyway, I've always been a people pleaser and I've always been the person...

[00:04:20] The peacemaker?

[00:04:22] I've always been the peacemaker, which is...I don't know if there are any other peacemakers that listen to this show.

[00:04:29] It's a hard role and I am naturally the peacemaker because I am an empath and because I don't like confrontation.

[00:04:41] And so I'm trying to make sure everybody's happy and I'm trying to make sure we're all on the same page and we're not mad at each other

[00:04:47] and there's no confrontation happening and unfortunately that's just who I am.

[00:04:53] I don't like confrontation.

[00:04:55] That being said, I have gotten a lot better about setting boundaries because

[00:05:02] Gillian prior to boundaries would let anyone and everyone run over her.

[00:05:07] And that still do. I still do too an extent.

[00:05:10] There are some family members that I have to fight the guilt to allow...no, that's not what I'm trying to say.

[00:05:20] I have to fight the guilt of setting those boundaries with those people but still maintaining a relationship with them because the relationship that I have with...

[00:05:31] There's one person in my two people in my actually, in my family who has boundaries. I have set boundaries for those people but...

[00:05:41] I still will be a caretaker and I will still be there to help and still allow myself to be in that relationship with them on my terms sort of in a way.

[00:05:59] Kind of. Sometimes my terms aren't going to be my terms because of health reasons but anyway...

[00:06:07] I, um, yeah so these last few years I think since I was probably...

[00:06:14] I would say 37-38. I don't know what is going on with this gun. She's nuts.

[00:06:22] 37-38. I started to really look at my mental health and I started to really stop being concerned about what other people were doing or saying or living their life or how...

[00:06:36] I really started to look at how I fit into their life and then what kind of stress did that bring to me?

[00:06:45] And I am a big talker especially on this show about energy and energy given and energy received and you know all of that stuff.

[00:06:54] And I've really started to like dive down into my wichiness and figure out where my energies are coming from and so as an empath,

[00:07:06] I'm picking up a lot of things. I'm always picking up other people's energies and I had this like a ha moment probably...

[00:07:17] Well around August, September maybe October I had this ha ha moment of there are certain people when I get around them that I just feel so nervous and anxious

[00:07:32] and like I stumble over my words and I can't. I'm not that person that I usually am. I'm not that like bubbly whatever.

[00:07:42] I just like shrink into myself and it just that a ha moment of hang on a second, this person makes me feel the same way when I'm around this person

[00:07:53] and I started thinking about that because there's this one person that I work with that makes me think of a family member of mine

[00:08:03] and I'm trying to not like say too many names or whatever or relationships.

[00:08:08] And this one person over here we'll call her left person and the right person is who I work with.

[00:08:15] Left person over here makes me feel a certain way because of some trauma throughout my life that she has created and the amount of stress induced by this person.

[00:08:30] We're still talking about left person. And then this person over here on the right was cut from the same cloth.

[00:08:39] Same energy.

[00:08:41] And from what I can gather, from what I've learned from different sources has the same life almost that person left on the left does too.

[00:08:57] Like treats her family the same way treats her kids and grandkids and you know all that stuff it's all very much a mirror.

[00:09:07] And it was almost like I remember sitting in my classroom going oh my god that's what it is.

[00:09:14] I'm picking up on her energy and I'm always nervous and always like scrunch in on myself around this person because she makes me feel the exact same way when I'm around this other person

[00:09:25] and then it was like wait a second. Maybe it's not me, maybe it's not I'm not feeling stress for myself or maybe it is both.

[00:09:36] Maybe I'm feeling the stress from those energies but I'm also feeling their stress and their energies.

[00:09:44] Okay I just said the same thing but I meant it two different ways.

[00:09:47] I'm feeling their energies and it's making me stressed out but I'm also feeling their stress.

[00:09:54] Does that make sense?

[00:09:56] I'm feeling the rope, I'm following.

[00:09:58] Okay so I'm getting stressed from two different ways.

[00:10:01] Yes.

[00:10:02] Mine in theirs.

[00:10:03] Yeah.

[00:10:04] Okay so boundaries so I have set boundaries with left person.

[00:10:08] I can only set I mean I can set boundaries with right person.

[00:10:13] Luckily I don't see this person a whole lot because I'm always in my classroom but anyway.

[00:10:19] But that is a boundary.

[00:10:21] Black, reducing my door.

[00:10:23] Reduction of proximity.

[00:10:26] I can tell you though my relationship, my interactions.

[00:10:30] I shouldn't say relationship because yes I have a relationship with this person because we work together but my interactions with her have been different.

[00:10:37] Ever since that aha moment because I'm now thinking whenever I see her or I have to interact with her.

[00:10:44] This isn't me, this energy, this nervousness, this anxiety that I'm feeling.

[00:10:49] This is yours, this isn't mine, this is yours.

[00:10:53] And so it's kind of given me a little boost of confidence and I'm a little bit more in control of being able to control myself.

[00:11:02] Does that make sense?

[00:11:03] No.

[00:11:04] Making sense today?

[00:11:05] To me at least but I don't know if I'm making sense to.

[00:11:08] I am fluent in Gillian at this point.

[00:11:10] That's true.

[00:11:11] Good morning Nina.

[00:11:12] Glad you're here.

[00:11:14] So to give a polar opposite to that, I've never been a people pleaser.

[00:11:21] Like you have never been a people pleaser.

[00:11:25] I wouldn't say that my failing when I was younger was not the inability to establish boundaries but the fact that I didn't know how to be in a relationship.

[00:11:43] I didn't know how to be in a relationship with proportionate boundaries if that makes sense.

[00:11:47] In other words like if a person made me uncomfortable, they're out.

[00:11:51] That relationship is over.

[00:11:53] I'm casting them out of my life because that person like I didn't know how to stay in a relationship and enforce boundaries.

[00:12:01] In other words if you push my boundaries you're out.

[00:12:04] And there was not going to be a situation where I was going to stay in that relationship and have you continue to test my boundaries it was no.

[00:12:11] You're testing my boundaries you're out.

[00:12:13] I've seen you end a couple of relationships with people just because they crossed a line.

[00:12:19] There was no give or take.

[00:12:20] That was just a you're done.

[00:12:22] Yeah, now I would say that I've gotten a little bit better about that over the years only because like I'm still I'm still extremely picky and choosy about who I allow kind of into my inner circle.

[00:12:36] But I feel like it has tears now like there I'm willing to have I'm willing to be friendly but casual.

[00:12:42] But casual to people with the understanding in my head that like you're you're at like the first the first circle you're never going to get past that because you and I don't have built that relationship for me to allow you further in.

[00:12:56] And then there are people who are like all the way to my inner circle because we have their relationship.

[00:13:02] We have that history we have that mutual respect for each other that I feel comfortable letting them that far in but that is that tiered system of something that did not exist for me when I was younger it was binary.

[00:13:14] It was you're all the way in or you're all the way out.

[00:13:16] I have noticed in you know so next no actually next week we will have been married 16 years but we've been together for 20 years.

[00:13:28] In those 20 years I have noticed your level of forgiveness for people and maybe it's not forgiveness you're certainly you certainly don't forget what people do or have done.

[00:13:40] But you do have I have seen a move past it maybe so is it not forgiveness.

[00:13:47] I don't know how to answer that question when it comes when it which slightly off topic but only a little bit but like really because that's a boundary.

[00:13:56] Yeah I think like for giving people for me whether or not I don't know how to I don't know what word use for it I can I can move past a person doing me wrong but I'm never going to forget it and there will be no contrition from that wrong until it's been asked for and that by itself.

[00:14:16] It eliminates most most reconciliation between me and other people because most people are too proud or too stupid to ask for forgiveness.

[00:14:25] And my point of view is a lot of us back to how I was raised but like if you wrong a person I don't want to say it's like a ritualist or ceremonial but there is like a reasonable expectation that you're going to apologize for that injury and ask that person's forgiveness.

[00:14:40] And when a person has come to you and humbled themselves and asked for that forgiveness it's kind of on using an adult to give it to them.

[00:14:48] You know I'm saying like that person asked that they admit they hurt me they asked for forgiveness if I continue to hold it overhead now I'm in the wall.

[00:14:56] So my problem has always been that knowing that most people are not going to ask for that forgiveness and try to mend that relationship.

[00:15:05] I can just say I can just kind of like sticking in a box and say I'm never going to get that apology but that means this relationship is going to end because I'm not it's never going to get back to a state where I'm comfortable being it again because that person wrong me and they're never.

[00:15:20] It's not even the apology necessary necessarily but it's the apology that gives me some hope I'm not going to get hurt again.

[00:15:29] But if you don't apologize for it then you're not admitting you did wrong and if you're not admitting you did wrong how can I ever expect you're not going to do it again.

[00:15:38] Right I do see that I absolutely do see that I have a couple of maybe a few and like I feel like they're ongoing because sometimes in some capacity or another these people are still in my life

[00:15:53] and I don't see that changing it in the near future anytime soon but for instance there's this one person again I'm not calling out names who.

[00:16:07] I know who you are out there in Listerland.

[00:16:11] I know who I'm about to talk about but you will you will.

[00:16:15] So the last month I would say maybe not so much a month but the last month has been a little difficult for our family we still cover your prayers of course things are still moving along in that department but because of where I live

[00:16:40] I am going to be the person responsible for some things and I was telling another person yesterday that I'm not I'm not going to receive the help that I feel should be given in this scenario just simply because I don't think they're able and it's not like monetarily able I'm not going to receive the help that I feel should be given in this scenario.

[00:17:03] I'm just simply because I don't think they're able and it's not like monetarily able I'm not talking about that or physically able I think mentally emotionally they are not able to commit to helping me out in a certain way in an aspect that I need them to help in and that's fine.

[00:17:28] And what I was telling this other person was she was saying it really makes her upset and she's watching from the sidelines and it's really just upsetting to see me having to go through this and I'm like I'm not mad about it because I know who this person is I know how she is I know what I'm going to get from her and I can't be mad I'm not going to waste my energy trying to force her to do something that's just not going to happen.

[00:17:57] And then if it does happen, then it's going to be fighting tooth and nail more energy spent on something where I would have just rather not go down that road.

[00:18:08] Is this kind of like the frog in the scorpion without the mallas?

[00:18:12] Where the scorpion writes the frogs back and then stings the frog and then the frog says why do you sting me and the scorpion says because I'm a scorpion it's like you can't get mad at a person for being who they are.

[00:18:22] Exactly exactly yeah I guess I've never heard that one.

[00:18:25] Have you never heard that parable?

[00:18:27] Not the frog in the scorpion.

[00:18:29] So the short version goes that there's a frog in scorpion on one side of a bank and the scorpion asks if he can take them to the other side of it.

[00:18:35] I've heard the concept I guess the animals were different.

[00:18:38] Okay, maybe.

[00:18:39] But the short version of the the short preamble or parable is halfway across the scorpion stings the frog and the frog says why did you do that?

[00:18:48] Now we're both going to drown and the scorpion says because I'm a scorpion it's just a parable to say that like

[00:18:53] if you let a scorpion on your back and he stings you you can't get mad at him because he's a scorpion and you knew he was a scorpion before you let him on your back and got halfway across the river.

[00:19:01] Well yes, so that is what that is how I feel with this one you know one relationship that I have.

[00:19:09] This person is just not ever going to commit to anything that I'm going to need them to commit to.

[00:19:14] So why waste my energy on trying to get them to commit is just not going to happen.

[00:19:20] But then as far as what you were saying for the apology something that we've always told Piper.

[00:19:27] And I told my dad this the other day and he wrote it down and I was really surprised because you know like we talked about in past episodes.

[00:19:36] My parents used to be on a pedestal for me they were the smartest the best everything they was just the parents they were my parents.

[00:19:45] And so my dad is like tested genius and but in love with my dad to death he's super super smart he has no common sense which seems to be you either give up common sense for brains or you get a little of both.

[00:20:00] And you know you know what that feels like Phil.

[00:20:03] Yes, how that feels well you know you know that brain when God when God distributes the common sense and intelligence he has to give rest of the

[00:20:11] manageance by not giving everybody both.

[00:20:14] I mean you have a little bit of common sense.

[00:20:16] I got a little more common sense than then you give him credit for joking maybe not the social graces.

[00:20:22] But anyway, I told him and this is something we've always raised Piper to say or what we've always said to Piper is an apology is no good unless there's changed behavior.

[00:20:32] So you know because she she used to say I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry for whatever reason maybe she was in trouble or she got caught doing something or whatever and she'd say I'm sorry.

[00:20:43] But the behavior would continue and so we started to tell her behaviors I mean it's you have to have changed behavior in order for your apology to mean anything to us.

[00:20:56] Well, I started to apply that to everyone not just as a lesson to my child but why am I not holding adults accountable for that as well.

[00:21:07] And so I would be I would get these apologies and I've gotten some recently and there their words they are either spoken words or they're in a text or they're whatever.

[00:21:25] Children's from big bang are real people.

[00:21:33] Oh super smart.

[00:21:35] They're real people I live with one I was raised by one yes there have been times for going to ask me question and I've answered it and I had the look on her face immediately tells me she was trying to make a joke or she was asking a rhetorical question

[00:21:49] and she was not asking a five minute she was not asking for a five minute explanation of like you know trigonometry or whatever.

[00:21:57] No, most times I have to preface or have a preface or however you want to say it.

[00:22:01] A question that I'm going to ask Phil with I need a short answer just give me the short answer.

[00:22:08] Short answer is usually two to three minutes instead of five to ten and then I'm walking into the kitchen and I'm making dinner and it's like oh we're still talking about this okay I'm sorry I'm listening I'm listening.

[00:22:18] Sometimes the short answer you get is I have no idea babe.

[00:22:23] I don't get that very often because I feel like as soon as I ask it you are there typing something on the phone like you're researching the answer if you don't know the answer but anyway off topic.

[00:22:34] So I have gotten some apologies throughout my years of course everyone has I would hope that everyone has had apologies throughout their years.

[00:22:48] But when I started to hold adults accountable for their apologies and I started to look at past behaviors and I started to look at patterns in behavior with friends and family members and then this apology would come along because my feelings were hurt or whatever and then the gas lighting and then all that other stuff will even get to that but.

[00:23:11] I know that even though there's this long apology the behavior is not going to change because the pattern leading up to it is still there because the scorpion still scorpion this scorpion is still a scorpion and so I immediately because I am now getting better at creating boundaries I immediately cut off the relationship

[00:23:39] because I don't have time for it I don't have time for fake friends or fake family or whatever because you can have toxic family members and you don't have to have a relationship with toxic family members you can cut off that relationship in in various ways or create boundaries for those people same as you would do for a friend or an old friendship.

[00:24:04] So what has happened with me and what I think setting boundaries does is you start to see yourself in a new light you start to think of yourself a little higher like you deserve a little bit more than what those people are giving you and you know you see those people give others those things and why am I not on that list I'm just as deserving to be on that list.

[00:24:31] And then maybe the answer just simply is because they will never see you like that and to them you will not be that person and that's fine I don't need it in my life I don't need it in my life and so boundaries are set and boundaries could be a simple unfollow from Facebook or Instagram or a block on a phone or it could be whatever my boundary was I'm not even going to respond because responding is not going to be a good thing.

[00:25:01] So I'm not going to be a good thing to be fruitful in any way you know the apology came with a bunch of gas lighting and a bunch of this was your fault and you should have done this and why didn't you do that and blah blah blah and so me defending myself was only going to further that it was only going to give more than that because had I said hey look you really hurt my feelings kind of thing and then they acknowledged that then they didn't even know what I was doing.

[00:25:31] That would have been different maybe we were down a road where they were willing and able to listen to something that they did wrong but the response in response to you hurt my feelings was nothing it was no acknowledgement of what they did it was everything how I did something wrong

[00:25:50] and so that was when I decided we're done because I don't need that in my life I already have so much other crap going on in my life where my energy is actually needed and my energy is deserving and those people see that is deserving and so I get the energy received that I'm giving out I don't need that anymore in my life

[00:26:19] and so I am okay at this point in my life cutting off friendships or cutting off relationships with family members I'm okay with that.

[00:26:28] Or if not cutting them off completely at least taking them more superficial, more limited.

[00:26:33] Definitely superficial and limited definitely limited yes definitely limited and limited and not just how often I interact with them but limited and what information they receive.

[00:26:45] It doesn't mean I tell my sister this all the time because she has this one person who she feels like she continues to need to have in her life and that's fine because I feel the same way about this person.

[00:27:00] But when this person calls and is fishing for information what I've told my sister because this is what I do is everything is fine the kids are fine my husband's fine work is fine school is fine everything's great nobody's sick everybody's fine

[00:27:14] everything's great there's nothing bad to report there's no drama to live off of because that's what that person lives off of it's drama and so I don't feed into it.

[00:27:27] I don't feed them the things that they need to either go gossip or you know text their friends about me or my family or whatever.

[00:27:37] I don't feed into it anymore and so everything's fine most often if you ask me anybody everything's great no we're good.

[00:27:46] And I'm not going to share information with a lot of people that's the other boundary that I've created for myself is you don't get to know everything about me.

[00:27:54] And we talked about this on the social media episode last week I still post to social media I will still say things I will still post pictures and do all all sorts of interactions on social media.

[00:28:04] But I will not I will be the first to to admit that what you see on social media isn't at all everything in our life not even a tenth.

[00:28:18] Yeah yeah well and I would say that you know based on this conversation I see boundaries to two directions first is replacing a boundary upon yourself like what you're willing to put into the relationship and the other is you're placing a boundary like a filter to restrict what's able to come into the relationship.

[00:28:44] You know like the relationship is just it's a two it's like a it's a two way hey street and you can you have to be able to place boundaries on both ends to say.

[00:28:55] Based on who this person is or the way they treat us there's certain things I'm not willing to allow in and there's certain behaviors I'm not willing to permit to be brought in in towards me.

[00:29:05] Like I feel like that sometimes that's where the difficulty comes in is understanding that I feel like the difficulties to full I think it's very difficult especially it was for you for a long time to place that boundary and enforce it where people's behavior towards you.

[00:29:23] You didn't think was appropriate made you uncomfortable made you feel bad but you didn't know how to like stand firm on that boundary and say no I am not going to be treated this way.

[00:29:34] And then at the same time I feel like you also had a problem with setting that boundary and saying like I'm going to limit your like you are demanding X amount of my attention I'm only going to give you this much because I don't know if I want to use the word they're not going to be treated.

[00:29:52] I think deserving is a better yeah maybe and worth I mean why not say worth deserving and worth you could use those just to say the same thing sometimes it has different connotations some people use the word they're worth something and they get their feelings heard and I I don't draw distinctions between that but then again I don't I don't let my emotions get out of my decision making.

[00:30:17] I feel like deserving and worth have very different things because I was told by someone who I consider to friend for my birthday that there was something going on with my birthday and her response to coming was it's not worth it you're not worth it and we're not going and it kind of hurt part a little bit.

[00:30:39] I did come home and cry because I was like what somebody I mean it wasn't even through actions of saying I'm not worth it you know like in I feel like the text message I received from someone else even though it was a long whatever all it really said was you're not worth this you're not worth me accepting an apology or giving you an apology you're not worth that but I'm going to tell you whatever this is but this person came flat out and said it's not worth it.

[00:31:08] It's not worth it. It's not worth it and I was like do you know what you're saying? Like you know what you just said to me.

[00:31:15] I don't think I don't think they fully thought through the ramifications of what they were saying when they said it probably not but.

[00:31:21] But you know the other the other side of this equation is that if you're in the position like I am where setting boundaries kind of comes naturally and easily and I would say in most cases like I am emotionally a piece and have no guilt about setting a boundary on a relationship.

[00:31:37] Because I have always believed that a relationship is I mean first of all it's not compulsory you're not in the way I grew up like you're not under any obligation to be in a relationship with any body.

[00:31:52] And unfortunately sometimes that includes family members it's like yeah we're always going to be family I don't wish ill upon you but I don't have to ever speak to you again for the rest of my life if you treat me poorly which is a difference between you and I because I've.

[00:32:06] Yeah I was supposed to say I was raised a little bit different well family's family you're supposed to be there for your family and you're supposed to allow.

[00:32:13] You know access to all family members but on the flip side of things I.

[00:32:19] Okay so part of I think part of.

[00:32:25] I don't want to say the dissonite part of my part of my rationale comes from the fact that like the way I was raised was that once I got married and once I had children you two became my family like my parents are always going to be my parents.

[00:32:37] My extended family will always be my extended family but my my family that core group only includes three people now for if you include the furry little terrorists we live in we live with.

[00:32:47] But there's only three people in this family so the three people that I have to have a relationship are the woman I married and the child I get that I helped create.

[00:32:57] That's it everybody else is optional at this point and that sounds like very harsh and I think that my parents wouldn't take it as being harsh because you know my.

[00:33:07] I don't think your parents would well my father watching my father's one that instilled that in me but it's the idea that like the family that you create is your responsibility and they're the ones you.

[00:33:16] You have to be the closest to because you are responsible for them right so all that being said is.

[00:33:23] Whatever is best for my family which sometimes means cutting cutting off contact with people that are.

[00:33:30] Heartful to us or mistreat us that is what has to happen so if I have to cut off contact with somebody because they're just they're not good for it to be around my child.

[00:33:41] That's the way it is it's not Joe has a question for you so when my daughter gets married she's going to be in a very similar position that I am now as far as I'm concerned like I will always be her father I will always be on the other side of a phone call or the other side of a whatever if she needs me if her husband needs me if her kids need me if she has kids if she had gets married who knows I will always be your father but I also expect her.

[00:34:10] I expect her to hold her husband closer to her heart than me because I'm her father that's her husband that's her other half and when she has children I expect her to hold to do right by those kids before she ever does right by you and me.

[00:34:26] Where adults we're responsible for ourselves that is the family she has chosen and created and that is ultimately what should be closer in her heart.

[00:34:35] Now I'm not going to take that personally I would take it personally if the opposite happened and she married a man but then daddy came first in her life because at that point I'd be like hold on a second that's not the way this is supposed to work.

[00:34:48] Hang on let me tell you about my life with your mother when we first got married well but that was also because that's how I was but that was also something now talking about setting boundaries and I would say boundaries and expectations kind of go hand in hand

[00:35:03] but when we first got together like yeah that was something I made it I made vividly apparent to you the are going to have to deal with the cat she's having a she's having a morning.

[00:35:13] But like not happy that was something I made very apparent to you very early on was this is how I was raised this is my expectation of marriage and if you want me to commit to this marriage it has to be this way and that was never I never put that on you like to strongly

[00:35:32] or to like I don't like use the word ultimate but it was really just me trying to very very honestly express to you there's certain things in this marriage that have to be this way because if they're not this marriage is not going to work monogamy loyalty so once you know like pretty basic stuff.

[00:35:50] But it was still the fact that if the marriage is not this way I cannot comfortably be in this yeah so if you if you came to me today and said like you want to become a swing or something crazy I'd be like that's a that's going to be a hard no for me because it's just not those are not part of the original terms and conditions weird and you made it I make it weird but in this case my whole thing to you was was like if we're going to get married I have to come first because you come first to me that was the that was.

[00:36:20] What you had said to me and I didn't understand it at 20 how old it was I 24 25 well because I was like but I live with you and I love you and move my breath let's do the math you were 25 and I was 26 when we got married.

[00:36:33] Was I yeah okay anyway because it was be it was past January in 2008 but I had some and I don't know if maybe other women go through this I had some like weird I wasn't weird but I had an attachment to my parents.

[00:36:50] Then I guess I didn't want to most people do why would assume most people do not not all people but I have this I guess you know what it was my parents were still on this pedestal for me.

[00:37:05] You don't share wives cars tools or guns full stomach true that right there words to live by I guess because my parents were still.

[00:37:21] Didn't want to blow the audience is here so crazy still get over my cold.

[00:37:26] My parents are still on a pedestal for me and you weren't quite there yet when we first got together we won't go down the road very long because this isn't well maybe it is a boundary I don't know I

[00:37:39] I did everything I could to get you to break up with me oh god did you ever well not everything I didn't do everything I didn't cheat on you or anything like that she wanted it to be.

[00:37:50] I was just a bit maybe mainly I was just a bit which I don't know anyway I was stupid and young and dumb.

[00:38:00] This was this was an extension of the if you love something you let it go and it'll come back to you this was I love him so I'm going to act like I hate him and make him break up with me and if he sticks around

[00:38:11] through all this he's freaking crazy boy that's me well there was a lot that went into the whole game that I was playing of maybe he'll break up with me kind of thing you're so lucky that I care I like to

[00:38:24] as much as I did because every girl that pulled that crap with me prior to you was like instant ejection that boundary was set yes but I jumped it I allowed you a little further

[00:38:35] you allowed it to be fair it wasn't like from the first time I met you you were just insufferable to me it wasn't you waited until I think you waited until about the time I proposed to you and at that point now it was about six months

[00:38:49] and because I remember going to the beach with our family and my family and I don't know anyway I wanted you to break up with me I was dumb I was so dumb but I'm glad I'm not dumb anymore.

[00:39:03] I was only 21 years old at the time 21 year olds are dumb 21 year olds are dumb but okay so anyway I don't know where I was going with that but back to having my parents on a pedestal and whatever we either we had we were just about to get married or we had just gotten married

[00:39:22] because they're remember we lived in our first apartment and you said those exact words to me either I come first or I have to come first in this relationship

[00:39:31] and if that was I think the first time in my life that I have actually like retrospectively looked at myself and was like what does he mean oh my gosh I'm really doing that

[00:39:42] I challenge her in a lot of ways. And is that is that about the time though that I started to move away from being mom and daddy's little girl to being Phil's wife?

[00:39:54] I would say it was about that time I remember there was a short period of time where you started going through you know counseling I think it was in hand actually

[00:40:03] and I know that was one of the things I got brought up during that was you know like why do you why are your why are you family here and yet the man that you were engaged to or married to I don't recall the time the time timetable

[00:40:19] why is it made your marriage to here and your family's here yeah and I know that was something that came up it was it was probably one of our big fights yeah but again to me it was an it was like I told you then I'm like I'm not saying

[00:40:32] you're not their daughter and their sister anymore I'm just saying that like you you you you trying to think of my words here

[00:40:44] it wasn't that you were asking me to like put you first but to my from my point of view by entering into a marriage that's what it was

[00:40:53] you were going to be first you were always going to be first like you your needs and once we're going to come ahead of my needs and wants

[00:41:01] and now two of yours two y'all come ahead of my needs and wants and like and it was just really hard for me because I've always taken care of everyone else

[00:41:12] and I know this is not like everybody gets your violin out for Gillian kind of moment but I still struggle with this even with like your sister

[00:41:21] because your sister invited me to go on two girl's trips this summer and being included in every single aspect of it has been weird to me

[00:41:34] because it to me it says somebody actually cares about Gillian's input and no I'm talking in third person but I've always taken care of everyone else

[00:41:45] and then I had this lug of a guy come in and he wanted to take care of me and I was like whoa this is weird this is you can't take care of me

[00:41:53] I take care of myself and then I'll take care of you because I take care of people

[00:41:57] I don't know maybe it was that I'm just weird like that yeah it has been weird it has been hard for me to accept

[00:42:05] to accept help from others it's always hard for me to do that

[00:42:09] and to be fair like you you also expressed in our marriage that like you still want to maintain a lot of your independence

[00:42:17] you don't you don't want to be micromanaged you want to be able to kind of like right you know handle your own stuff

[00:42:23] and I'm always I was ecstatic with that because I told you years ago I'm like the last thing I'm looking to marry is a dependent

[00:42:31] I don't want a wife that I have to like you know take care of basic adult functionalities for like you should I should be able to trust you

[00:42:39] and say hey babe can you handle this and if you say yes I should be able to turn my back and walk away

[00:42:43] and never think about again no one had got done because you've always said that yeah but for it works the opposite direction too

[00:42:51] because you have to have the expectation that if you ask me to take care of something it's going to get done

[00:42:55] because it all comes back to like the two of us are both working from both directions try to take care of the family

[00:43:01] and the family's priorities yeah so I mean I would I would say this whole conversation about boundaries is also really it's also a discussion

[00:43:11] about expectations and standards and like it really is just about defining the relationship

[00:43:17] and saying that in order for me to commit to this relationship it there are certain things that have to happen

[00:43:24] and have to be done a certain way and I don't think that that should ever be an ugly conversation to have

[00:43:32] I think a lot of people take I think I think at some point like something I've heard a lot growing up is this idea of well I'm perfect way I am

[00:43:40] take me as I am and I think that's just bull crap 100% I don't do that I don't do that you don't I don't think I'm perfect in every way

[00:43:50] well you don't but a lot of you hear that a lot from society is this idea that like well if anybody puts expectations on you they're wrong

[00:43:57] you're you they have no right to put expectations on you but that whole thing about a relationship being a non compulsory thing

[00:44:05] it's like if you do not acquiesce to the standards and the demands I'm trying to place upon this relationship I'm free of leave

[00:44:13] so that's all I ever tell people is I'm like when we talk about setting boundaries and relationships all we're really doing is

[00:44:19] setting the terms by which I'm willing to engage in this relationship and if you're not willing to accept those boundaries

[00:44:26] or those terms or those standards of that code of conduct or that whatever that's fine it just means I'm not going to be

[00:44:32] in the relationship and it works it has to work both ways like in order for me to be your husband there are certain things you expect of me

[00:44:41] and it doesn't matter to me if like anybody else thinks that's right or wrong those were your condos or your boundaries

[00:44:48] and I'm going to respect them because I care about you but if I don't respect them then you're out of here

[00:44:54] yeah so that's all I'm saying I mean I think I think that about I think that a relationship without boundaries is always going to

[00:45:03] want to be an extraordinarily toxic one a very unproductive one because I think that a relationship any relationship like you said earlier

[00:45:11] like whether we're talking about family spouses your doctor your neighbors or whatever every relationship has to have boundaries

[00:45:18] yeah there has to be a point at which like you define with that relationship is or is not willing to tolerate because if you don't then by

[00:45:28] default you're willing to tolerate anything and tolerating anything leaves you you know subject to the whims of the other person

[00:45:35] that relationship and hate to say it but nine times I tend that's going to mean you get taken advantage of

[00:45:41] yeah and even the nicest person will still take advantage of someone without boundaries

[00:45:46] the nicest person is still going to take that which is available because that is just human nature

[00:45:51] so at a certain at a certain point I don't want to say to avoid being a pushover but to avoid being taken advantage of

[00:45:58] well that's always I wouldn't well in and I'm thinking of two different relationships I've been in not like boyfriend girlfriend

[00:46:06] but friendships I was always the pushover and so I always jumped when they said jump or I always jumped when they said I need

[00:46:16] or I didn't do this and they didn't necessarily ask but if I would do it but I always yeah again I'm a people pleaser

[00:46:25] I am not going I'm not a people pleaser anymore I guess I just really don't care like if you want it done you do it

[00:46:31] I'm not jumping because and this is what I've said to some people that have asked about this relationship

[00:46:38] this person was always quick to say jump and Gillian was always quick to jump but when I said I need you

[00:46:48] to jump that person was like me I don't jump and thank God I was in the place that I was

[00:46:58] then you know thank God I've like transitioned into this new person mindset because that was an expectation of mine

[00:47:08] I'm giving you I'm jumping why aren't why can't you jump for me and then it goes back to the I'm just

[00:47:14] is deserving for people to jump for me as you are for people to jump for you

[00:47:19] and then it turned out that there were people in your life who the minute I wouldn't even say the

[00:47:24] minute you asked them jump of the minute you like green lighted them because they were already on the

[00:47:29] sidelines hopping up a down say put me in coach put me in yeah yeah and they were like I'll jump

[00:47:35] for you because you've jumped for me in the past and and I'll jump for you now and yeah it's just been

[00:47:40] night and day it's been weird and it's taking me some time I told that to your sister was like you just got

[00:47:45] to bear with me I jump for a lot of people but I don't have a lot of people that jump for me

[00:47:50] and so it's weird when people are jumping for me you know the other thing I was thinking about

[00:47:55] because we have to wrap this up here in America's I know you have things to do that's why we start

[00:47:59] at the podcast after I got it I gotta get out of here but I thought to myself like looking

[00:48:06] back at your personality over like you said 20 years together and realizing that

[00:48:11] you've always been a people pleaser and you've always had trouble setting boundaries do you think maybe

[00:48:16] that's part of the reason why I have always kind of like been hyper independent and like taking care

[00:48:22] of things by myself and not asked for your help with a lot of things because to me it was like

[00:48:26] she's constantly going in 50 directions for everybody else I'm not putting one more demand

[00:48:30] to partner that's a question you have to answer that's that's the question I am rattling

[00:48:36] around in my head right now so you do things to you're jumping for me because people don't jump for me

[00:48:46] that's what I'm wondering because like I said well but it's like I said like I've always I've

[00:48:51] I've always hang on I've always you're not included in that people don't jump for me

[00:48:56] you've always jumped for me I know but like I said sometimes me jumping for you is she's already

[00:49:02] given everything she's got to everybody else there's nothing left to give

[00:49:05] I was in my intention it's just it's an observation like I'm thinking of this because like I

[00:49:11] don't I don't know you know me though like I don't always I don't always think

[00:49:20] through like super super deep like the reason I'm doing something if that makes sense like

[00:49:26] to me it's just like okay this feels like the right thing to do or I'm reading the room and I'm

[00:49:30] on work with the energy in here and I just go with it I don't I don't spend a lot of time

[00:49:34] questioning my decisions and I'm wondering to myself if that's why for all these years

[00:49:39] I've kind of held back from asking you for help because like we still get into it every now

[00:49:44] and then now because you'll be like why didn't you ask for my help and I was like because I had it

[00:49:48] I almost almost weekly on Sundays when you're doing chores around the house or something

[00:49:55] yeah yeah never thought of it much I just thought I was just thought of myself like well

[00:50:00] if she wanted to help she could come over and help and if she doesn't want to then

[00:50:06] it's probably because she's exhausted and just needs to chill for a bit.

[00:50:09] I do I do I do go through that I feel like I get so emotionally

[00:50:15] spent and my well is so dry that I don't have anything left to give and that's one of the reasons why I

[00:50:23] have given up on relationships and set boundaries is because my family doesn't deserve mom to have a dry well

[00:50:34] I need to come home with something left to give

[00:50:38] and it's one of the reasons why I stopped working in nonprofits and started working as a teacher

[00:50:43] where I would have the time to veg and I would have weekends and the nights I stuttered

[00:50:50] weekends and nights and summers and holidays and all of those times to recharge

[00:50:55] and that has made a world of difference but then I also in that time period have cut off relationships

[00:51:02] that just is equally if not more drain my well quicker and drier so that I have nothing left to give at the end of the day.

[00:51:13] And that is actually part of the reason why I've been so so quick to hold certain people at arms

[00:51:19] length ever since you've known me because my point of view is like when I come when I come home

[00:51:25] when y'all come home from work in school, y'all do not deserve to have a husband and father

[00:51:31] who's you know just like has all these other things injecting toxic toxic energy into his life.

[00:51:39] Like my point of view is that my life stopped being all mine to live and to do the moment I got married.

[00:51:47] My life is supposed to be too enrichures. The minute we had her, I know again now I have two things that come ahead of me

[00:51:56] so whether I want a relationship or not with another person, friend or whatever

[00:52:02] if that relationship is harmful to my family or even if it's harmful to me

[00:52:06] it takes for me so I have less to give to y'all. It's not a relationship that I can have

[00:52:11] because again, it's a it's question of priority and I'm never going to prioritize the toxic relationship

[00:52:17] that takes for me more than I prioritize the energy I could maintain to give to my family.

[00:52:23] But we do have to wrap this up. You got to get going.

[00:52:26] You told me 45 minutes show it's we're 53 minutes right now.

[00:52:30] Okay, it was a good episode. I think it was. So anyway, well thank you guys.

[00:52:37] I'm glad we did announcements at the beginning but thanks for joining us today and you know yada yada yada.

[00:52:44] Yada yada. We'll see you next week. I think next week.

[00:52:50] We'll let you know. We'll let you know. It's always a case by case week by week basis

[00:52:55] but thanks for joining us so early this morning. Certainly appreciate it and we'll see you

[00:52:59] later. Have a good rest of your day. Get some coffee and get an nap. Bye everybody.

[00:53:25] .