Raising Values: Traits That Cut Both Ways

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Raising Values Podcast, where the traditional family talks.

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, at Spotify and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You can support the Raising Values podcast through Patreon.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_01]: They'll be a brilliant, or behind-the-mic, and we hope you enjoy this show.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You know you have a special relationship with your audience when they're taunting you during

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_00]: the pre-roll?

[00:00:36] We're coming!

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Good morning, Stuart.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you're here on time.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Glad you're here on time.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good point.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad he's here on time too.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Usually he shows up 10 minutes later until he starts.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Well he texted me yesterday and said that he was looking for the topic yesterday on our

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Facebook page and then said, by the way, you still have this pin up at the top of your

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Facebook page.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So he was ahead of the game 24 hours ago.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Great job, Stuart.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So proud of you.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Good morning, Fee.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Good morning, Fee.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you had a good time last night watching Beetlejuice.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Beetlejuice.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to go see that so bad.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I kept wondering why I kept seeing Instagram feed full of people wearing red and white

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: pin stripes and black and white.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Black and white.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And then it hit me.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with the podcast.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Really does.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that to this topic kind of came up and Stuart might have been around for

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: this, but like this came up on the matter of fact side in patron chat, but there's

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of those men and women there all say raise and values listeners.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And we got to talk about personality traits that cut both ways or their double

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: edge swords.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Certain things that are a negative or a positive depending on the situation.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And this specifically came up because of like what I think is a natural kind

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: of an inborn drive to be self-reliant, take everyone's self that's very,

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: very deep in the preparedness community.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But it came out because a lot of us were talking about the fact that we don't

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: like asking for help from others.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I can't imagine any of our friends in that group asking for help from a lot of

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: people.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's kind of the groundwork of what provoked this topic because I've

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: seen parallels over and over and over and over and through all those conversations.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But do we want to do announcements real quick or not?

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we that's usually the flow of things is the announcement.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I blame Stuart for getting us off track.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_01]: We're just blown away that you're here on time, Stu.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Not really.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're great.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: New merch, new merch.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so like we've said in the past and we'll say it again, go buy your shirts.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It doors, Andrew's Andrew's aunt from MatterFacts commented that she really liked

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: the shirts yesterday because I made a post so if you follow us on Instagram, no,

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't put it on Instagram.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I did a long time ago but yesterday I put it on Facebook because Facebook's kind of

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: ended.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, she says she's like the shirts and I said, well, I hear that they're going

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: to be all the rave at Prepper Camp so if you don't have your shirts, we're not

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: going to be selling shirts at Prepper Camp.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll have a little QR code where you can click to go to the store and you can order

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: it for yourself and get it delivered to your house but we won't really have merch there.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll have a couple of giveaways and stickers and things like that.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But the link is in the show notes.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's also on Facebook so you can go check that out and get some shirts.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So things she's doing cozy, she can also do tumblers.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_01]: She could probably, well, I don't know all sorts of things go there.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And the new MatterFacts merch is out too.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So you can go see that.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So thanks to Tiffany and Chris for working so hard to get those things done before

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Prepper Camp because I'm really hoping to see a lot of people wearing some of those shirts

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: while we're out there, which is what?

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Three weeks away?

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Prepper Camp is three weeks away.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Three weeks from today we will be in Saluda.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I know and I looked at the weather this morning in Saluda, the highs are only in the 70s

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and the lows are in the 50s it's perfect camping weather knock on wood.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect camping weather.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And next is the raising value signal chat for patrons.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So we had a patron message us a couple of weeks ago and asked why don't we have a raising

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: value signal chat and I thought, well, I don't know.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't we?

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Because everybody's on that MatterFacts signal chat.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you are a patron and you would like to be a part of this signal chat, just let any of us

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: know the link is in the MatterFacts signal chat.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You can join that way.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So we won't be talking much about politics guns and what it's a political guns and

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: preparedness.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we will.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about some of those things I'm sure but I think the point of the raising

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: value signal chat is to talk more about the things like we talk about on this show.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So and to kind of I think it's been good because we do have a listener that I was

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: unaware because I don't know everyone's backstory that listens to the show but turns out

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: we come from the same type of household.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, you know, the things that she said to me, I've read on before the text messages

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and things like that is just nice to know that there's other people out there.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I hate that we've all gone through those things but it's nice to know that we can kind

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_01]: of share those things together.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so the raising value signal chat is up and running and that's always fun.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to get a part of that and that's all.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that all?

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: That's it for administrative work.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So back to what we were talking about before I got us massively out of quarter is,

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_00]: you might be self-reliant but do you ask for help?

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And I will be the first to admit that I am fairly guilty of this.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Fairly.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Fairly.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't need help very often.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: No, you don't.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But this is one of those things I was talking about because like we were taught,

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: one of our patrons on the matter of fact side was talking about how I think she said

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: she had her leg in a cast.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: She was setting the emergency break, one of the equal.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And she pushed it down far enough that like, I don't remember if it was the top of

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_00]: the cast got stuck under the dash or something happened where she got stuck.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And I haven't been reading the chat and she had to wiggle herself out of there because she

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: was like, that's awful.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm not scary too.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, but here was her thing.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: She was like, I'm going to get so much crap if I have to call somebody to come over here

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and help me get this cast out of here.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So she just like, you know, very calmly patiently figured it out.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But it really is one of those situations where it's like, you know, that will and that

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: drive to take care of yourself to do for yourself.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a positive.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But like I pointed out to her and several other people in the group is when you get to that

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: point where you're going to screw something up or hurt yourself if you keep pushing

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: to try to do it by yourself.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the point of which like we really do have to take our ego put it on shelf and be like,

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I really need help if I want to get this done right without causing an accident.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's that's so incredibly difficult for a person who's grown up with that idea

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: of like, no, I want to take care of myself.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we view, we view having to ask for help as some kind of an innate failure

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: because like you couldn't do it by yourself and that's the whole, that's the whole objective

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: of the game at this point.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you and I were talking this morning about how I kind of need to get a set of

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_00]: spark plugs put in the truck and I was planning on doing that this afternoon.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm probably going to have to punch in for at least a few hours and work this afternoon.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's one of the situations where it's like, you know,

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: for the first time in how many years I might actually bring the car to a mechanic.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and it's like I told you, like it's the perfect storm.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: You've been called into work over the weekend.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_01]: You're working both days this weekend and you need to get this project done and while

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: the weather is absolutely gorgeous today in South Louisiana and it would be the perfect

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: day to go work on your truck.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just not, it's just not in the car.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's for you to do that.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, it's a I can't do it.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm sure I could do it if you told me how but you're not going to trust me to

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: go put spark plugs on your truck for the first time ever.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: No, without well mean, you helped with the spark plugs on your Mustang.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I've gained years ago.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I couldn't tell you what to do.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I know that I stuck the little thing in between the the little hook part.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you dying inside?

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_00]: A little bit.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Where you have to, you have to, um, you stick the little thing.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Please stop.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_01]: To make it the right width apart, right?

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You mean you get the spark plug?

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got them.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I meant.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember I did that.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: There is one mechanic in this family and then I had to put a man because your hand was too big.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That was a thing.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You're, you're, you're two back spark plugs.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I literally couldn't get my arm down down in there to put those spark plugs in and she had

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: to because you know her forearms are just narrower than mine.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But you, there have been times that like on the truck or whenever you're working on cars.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're the mechanic.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But you, you have come to me and ask, can you help me with this?

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to need your help with this today or whatever.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So, well, the last two times we had to run wiring back and forth in the

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: truck over the gas tank, I had to have your help for that because my arms are literally

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: too big to fit.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I cannot, I cannot physically do the job without dropping the gas tank and you can.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel, when you do ask me for help because it is so rare that you ask me for help,

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I do feel like a sense of accomplishment.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh wow, he needs me today instead of me needing him.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like I said, I mean, I'm willing to ask for help.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't come off then.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But I just think that that's one of those things where it's like that same, that's two

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_00]: sides the same personality trait is yeah, it's great to want to do for yourself but

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_00]: can you let go of that and ask for help when you genuinely legitimately need it?

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Persistent or stubborn.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't just put banners up, stuers watching.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't just put banners up and I'm not staring at you.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Persistent or stubborn is what this next banner is.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hmm.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Why are you looking at me?

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Because sometimes you, there's a thin gray line between persistence, stubborn and you

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: for it sometimes.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: That's fun, drink.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So we let's call what it is.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Most most people would count the will and the want to persevere through

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: difficult and holdy as a positive.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's an old saying stop throwing good money after bad.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know where it's like no-when to cut your losses and say this just isn't working anymore

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and to continue to go down this path because it was my path and it got difficult.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: For like for another reason that if this path doesn't serve my end, my means anymore

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: then why would I continue down it?

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: But some people because they get tunnel vision and because they are so persistent,

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: it branched out into stubbornness where if they would take a step back and think

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: rationally they would realize this isn't working.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I need to try something else but they can't pull back from it.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They've already kind of committed themselves to you.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Nope, this is going to get done this way and I'm going to push through no matter what.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So could it be persistent or stubborn versus ignorant and stupid?

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's ignorant stupid though because like to me this is...

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But wouldn't I think that kind of what you just said anyway,

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: what like the example that you just gave sounds like stupidity.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Like if I continue to do it this way, I'm going to get a different result and that's not that.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But the hard part of this is that sometimes your emotions get tied up in it

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're no longer thinking rationally.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: In other words like if somebody could push the pause button and be like,

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: hey dude look at what you're doing.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You'd realize and be like oh I'm being an idiot about this.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But when you're in the moment and you're on the ground and you know your elbow deep in it

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: it's hard to pull back and think about that and be like maybe this isn't working.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I've run into this sometimes with all kinds of tasks whether it's mechanical work or even like

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: you know my day job when I'm trying to figure out how to do something in a spreadsheet

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and I will sit there and beat my head against the wall trying to figure out how to get

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: done a certain way. Only to realize later oh this would have been...

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: The going added this other direction would have been so much simpler but

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I got into that tonal vision of this is the way I'm trying to get done and I'm going to force to work this way.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I say I don't think it's a stupidity thing.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes you just you get so sucked into the task.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you are stubborn.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You're stubborn.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Am I stubborn?

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Holy hell yes.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Really? Because I haven't written here thinking if it's not working then let's look at it

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: in a different way and try it in a different way. I don't know maybe maybe in some aspect

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: some stubborn about things say what you want to say because your voice is gut subtitles.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you think it's working when it's really not.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_01]: You have an example?

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: He's like...

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Not at all.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll talk my head but the next time it happens I'll let you know.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: You think this is working but it's not working.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Part of being a STEM teacher especially is when the kids do this I mean because they're

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: human and everybody does this but I'll give them a task and they get stuck on one way to

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_01]: complete this task.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We have to figure out the different ways to complete the task and there are different ways to complete

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_01]: the task. And for instance we just did a...

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: We just did a project in the middle school 4 through 7 and it was a super simple art engineering project

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and they had parameters.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: They had to construct their name, a 3D sculpture of their name and it had to be over six inches tall.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It had to be... you could only... they could only use markers, crayons, tape and paper.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: They could use glue or anything like that had to be tape.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And so once they figured out how to get their name over six inches tall without making the letters

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: the size of a piece of paper which also is one of the ways that it could work.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_01]: The fifth graders realized, well if I just roll up a piece of paper and make a tube and tape that

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the bottom-paste paper I can just take my letters onto it.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Well after that happened and you know they're all on display they all started doing it that way.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I have this one girl who I didn't think she was going to...

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_01]: She has a hard time seeing things outside of her tunnel vision.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_01]: She totally went in a totally different direction and used her letters as

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_01]: like she would take... she would make them into arcs and then she'd build on that arc and then

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: she'd build on that arc. And it was the coolest sculpture of that was up there but anyway,

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: what I'm trying to say is even kids get stuck in that stubbornness that pattern of

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to do it this way. This has to be the only way to solve this problem.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know talking about that being a good thing in a bad thing sometimes that lead you to break

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: away from the herd and truly find a better way or at least a unique way of doing something.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we're this just what they did. Yeah, I feel like we're this devolved into a negative

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: trait though is when it's outcome based to me. You know when doing it your way,

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_00]: when no one else wants to do it that way causes you to have a bad result.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But the project fails, the whatever doesn't work out the way you wanted to like whatever.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the point of which you jumped the shark from persistent to stubborn.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you had taken a step back and thought the way I'm doing this isn't working,

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_00]: the way everybody else is doing this is working that's probably what I should do but you just

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: stubbornly stay nope, this is the way I'm going to do it whether it gets it starts out as

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_00]: this is the way I'm going to do it no matter how everyone else does it and eventually transitions

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_00]: into this is the way I'm going to do it even if it doesn't work. Yeah, because at the point of

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: which it doesn't works when you ought to be able to you know like pull the grip cord and say

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_00]: this isn't working I need to try something else but that's that's difficult sometimes.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. It is. So you might be stern, but can you be gentle? This is something you and I

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: like talked about a lot when we were first becoming parents because it's like by nature I am a

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_00]: disciplinary and I'm very much type A personality and I'm very rigid in a lot of ways.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I can duck myself that way like I have certain schedules, certain patterns, certain ways

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: of doing things and like even last night after I finished 10 and a half hours work you were

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: saying hey babe dinners on this show on this show the stove before I would stop to eat I had three or

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: four things I had I wanted to get done before dinner and I didn't care how hungry I was I

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: want to get this thing stoned first. Yeah, but where I used struggle when sometimes I still do

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: struggle is not forcing that level of rigidity onto others because like you and Piper are very

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: different from me and very I want to say like fly by the CDOS pants in a lot of ways. I am

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she is. She's a middle ground between us. Mm-hmm. I think she now I don't think she's

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_01]: middle ground either. You think she's? I think she's more you. She is not a fly by the

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_01]: CD of your pants kind of thing. But her patterns are very different from mine. Well yeah she's a 12 year old girl.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess what I'm saying is like this is when I was moments in time where I sometimes have to navigate and say

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I can force you to do it my way but would it be better for her to like let her have some

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: autonomy and figure this out on her own? That's where we're at right now with her though. Is because

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: she made the comment a few weeks ago about how she made the comment a few weeks ago that I didn't

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_01]: trust her to be able to handle situations that she gets in or whatever not, not that they're

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: batter anything but that she can handle herself. And so that really made me take a step back and be like

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: okay yes you are hovering she is 12 she does know how to handle herself and you know she's really

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: smart and she can figure out a lot of the situations that she's in at this age kind of thing.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where I was going with this and sorry my brain is not feeling great today. Anyway

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: yep that's it my brain said you're done. So anyway I guess just back to my point if you like this

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: is one of those things that like I've always believed and I feel like you believe that like you know there's

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: a certain amount of discipline and holding people to standards that's very very important.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Not just an adulthood but especially raising children. Like kids have to understand there's

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_00]: there's consequences for actions and it's consequence isn't always negative sometimes it's positive.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: A consequence of us not getting eyeball deep in debt is that we don't burn hundreds of dollars

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: a month in interest payments you know that's a positive consequence but it's a consequence because

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: of actions we've taken and I see a lot of children out there that the parents are so concerned

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: about being gentle and about gentle parenting makes me roll my eyes by the way like you and I've

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: talked about this. Yes yeah the thing we've had that whole episode if you're curious you can go back

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and listen to it but like my whole thing on general parenting is like y'all's definition of

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_00]: one minor very different apparently because my version of general doesn't mean spoiled the hell

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_00]: out of the kid it means you know like be nice to them but get the point across yeah but I

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_00]: digress but their parents are so worried about being gentle that they stop doing the job of

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_00]: being parents and sometimes that requires being stern sometimes your kids are going to push

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: the limits because they're freaking kids. That's what kids do. I know from me and my personality

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_01]: that is it's not easy for me to be stern. It's not easy for me to be like my heart hurts when I

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_01]: have to be stern because we've gotten to the point now where mean mom has to come out. I mean

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not being mean but you know I'm not also not being but you feel like you're being. Yeah I do

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_01]: feel like I'm being mean so I think if you want to get down into the like psychoanalyze all of

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_01]: the gentle parenting I'm wondering if that comes from a place of people who don't like

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: confrontation they don't like to be mean they don't like to be perceived as mean and they want to

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: be everyone's friend and blah blah blah so then they gentle parent their children and we you know

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: then we have to deal with them once they become adults. Yeah because like you said I mean a child

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_00]: whole childhood is spent figuring out where the lines are. Yeah. Where's the guard rail,

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_00]: where's the limit, where's where's the point at which this starts to be unpleasant like that's

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_00]: that's their entire world is figuring that out because that's that's where the eyes are in there.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: They're yeah they are they flourish they they thrive on boundaries and structure.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Consistent boundaries. Yes that's yeah. That's important I know you met that but that's important

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: because like I've seen parents that have boundaries for kids but the boundaries move all over

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: the place and kids do kids do not do well in those environments because they never they never know

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_00]: what isn't is unacceptable. It's it's a totally different thing see you can be a gentle parent or

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: stern parent but if the boundaries are constantly shifting around that kid is not going to ever

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: know what isn't is unacceptable. It would be better if if you want to call a gentle parenting

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: but it would be better to be a gentle parent with a consistent boundary where you always the

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: kid always knows if I get on this on a line I'm in trouble if I stay on this on the line I'm good

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00]: versus a stern parent who's trying to be disciplinary but the boundaries constantly shifting around.

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Like if the boundary shifts around based on whether grandma and grandpa around because

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a really common thing where some parents they let the kids get away with murder because

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: their parents are around or the grandparents are around and you know how fast a kid figures out

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: whatever I want when grandma and grandpa around or some parents don't like to displeen their kids

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: in public. Do you know how fast a kid figures out that I can act like a whole game of the

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: grocery or mom and get a what my butt? Yeah. I'm telling you like I think sometimes we do not give

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: enough credit for the fact that kids are fricking little rockets. DBS little rocket scientists

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and they figure things out. They may not be able to vocalize but they figure it out.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Neal degrossing said kids are born scientists. I think it was Neal degrossing that said that.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Kids are born scientists. They are natural scientists mainly just because many of you

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_01]: think about children are born they they're automatically they know how to breathe they know how to

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: cry they know how to eat they know how to poop those are the things the children babies know how to do

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: but their entire life you know as a child even as an adult growing up we just sorry my brain's

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: going all different places. I have a I have a sign I have a poster in my classroom that says play is the

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I should notice because I see it every day play is the best form of research or play is the I don't

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: know that. Um anyway kids find out they they their research is play they learn through play so a lot

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: of times in my classroom and for this this banner especially stern but can you be gentle I am going

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_01]: to refer to what it's like to be a teacher you have to be stern you have to be gentle but children need

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: to know what the boundaries are. In my classroom we do a lot of play we do a lot of building blocks

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: we do a lot of challenges can you you know build the tower this tall can you build it this tall only

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: using red blocks can you build it this tall only using pink and green blocks kind of thing.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing that I wanted to say because well you were talking I was thinking

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: there are so I teach pre-K4 through 7th grade so I see all all the grade levels at the school

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I see all levels of maturity at the school and there's two grades currently this year that's

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_01]: to get into my mind where the teachers in the last well how long have we been in school a month

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah a month the last month has been placing boundaries with these children and enforcing those

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: boundaries with these children and so both of them one of the things that they both do is

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: when they're told to line up if they don't line up or they keep talking or they do whatever if

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: they if they press the boundaries if they do something that you know steps over that boundary

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: she makes them sit back down and then they can line up again and if it doesn't work you go

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_01]: back down and then you line up again I know that for a couple of weeks like a couple of weeks ago

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_01]: they were they had like wasted five ten minutes of their recess time because they just could not

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: stop pressing the buttons and breaking the boundaries and overstepping and she had to do it

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_01]: because she has 18 children in that class and she had to do it to not be run over you know what I'm saying

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_01]: same thing with this other teacher they're walking from the playground to their classroom

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_01]: well I like to call it a blob it's when when they're not in a line they're in a blob

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and you want to gaggle yes absolutely but what she does is the ones who stay in the blob

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_01]: who don't walk in the line they go to the classroom they walk back out if they stay in a line

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_01]: they get to stay in the classroom and do whatever station they're at if they didn't if they

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_01]: walk again they walk back out they come back in she has an assistant so the kids aren't left

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_01]: alone but I just think it's important as an adult to place those boundaries and as hard as it is

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: especially for someone like me you have to enforce the boundaries with children you have to enforce

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: the boundaries with adults that is what that's what I'm dealing with right now that's what my sister

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: is dealing with right now is boundaries have been set and you have to be stern you can be gentle

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: but you have to be stern to enforce the boundaries hmm the way I used to tell people is is that

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: you know my goal is to always be gentle not for anybody else has benefit but because like

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like going to that place that I used to go when I would get really you know loud and aggressive

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and all those things like that I tried my best to leave as much of like you know army filled behind

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: 20 years ago so some of them still sticking around but I've done my best like put most of

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: him on a shelf but I always set out to be as gentle as possible and I always tell people

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be as gentle as you allow me to be because this is the boundary if you push the

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_00]: situation so if you force me to I'll go all that I'll go get old army filled off the shelf

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: to come and help me push the boundaries of need be you don't want to get to know him

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_00]: but if you can just respect my boundary we don't have to go there I don't have to get loud I don't

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: have to get threatening I don't have to yell we can just have a nice calm conversation but if you

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: force me I'm going to I'm going to go there so that's always kind of been my perspective is

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I would like to be a nice quiet gentle person but I'm willing to be confrontational of need be

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: in regards though to who the two of us are and why I think our marriage has worked so well

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_01]: you can't be the the kind gentle person I need you to be well I think you last night for being

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_01]: my rock for for standing up against the people that I need you to help me stand up against and

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: from for you to stand behind me and keep my back straight instead of me withering away because

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_01]: this is a hard conversation or it's a hard subject or it's a hard whatever with you know interaction

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_01]: with certain people I am the I feel like I'm the pushover and I know we're going to get there

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: no time like the present patient but are you a pushover? I know I am the pushover I'm the

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: one who's always trying to make sure that nobody's feelings are hurt and everybody's okay

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and we're kosher and are you okay do you still like me kind of thing? There's nothing on Earth

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_00]: more threat more frustrating than being asked four times in a row if I'm okay or anything's bothering

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: me when I've said I'm fine. Almost as frustrating as when would you want to open the can? Almost as

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_00]: frustrating as when my wife starts asking me silly questions about whether or not I would still love

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: her after all this time and I'm just looking at you like you're freaking nuts of course I do

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I gave you my last name that's a big deal to me. I don't know where to cope with. Thank you,

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_01]: see MU or DER on the show? That would be illified is there are witnesses. I ask you over and

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_01]: again if you're okay because it comes from a place of constant worry that I have if you're not okay

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not doing my job and then if I'm not doing my job you're going to notice that I'm not doing

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_01]: my job and then you're going to just discard me. That's too much silence on a plot case. No for the

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: audience that's listening to this in audio I'm looking at her like she is about the third crazy

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_00]: human being on the planet earth right now. Sir it's not bad I'll take third. At a four billion people.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought you're not like in your life. No no like on the earth of all of God's precious little

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: humans you are the third craziest. Whatever in my patient. You're extremely patient and I'm

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_00]: yes you are your patient I would say to a fault sometimes because on the one hand you're going

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_00]: to have to explain that. Okay so on the one hand you have demonstrated over 19 years of us being

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_00]: together that you have the ability to patient with you? No with people and so on. Okay. You are

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: far more patient than I am far more forgiving far quicker show person grace when they're at misbehaving

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and I've said before I really do I admire that in you but I do feel like you do reach a point where

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_00]: you begin to excuse poor behavior to the degree that like way past the degree that I would have

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_00]: cut it off but even to the point where like almost anyone around you is saying killing what are you doing?

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like this person is not treating you right. Why are you sticking around?

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's been friends family members jobs. Listening. I'm just saying like you said you

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_00]: started this off by saying you are a people pleaser and I totally get that but there's a

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you know for the people who fall into this where they are people pleasers they are

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: people who want to be you know like did they're not confrontational whatever it's bonds from

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: there's gotta be a line where you eventually say I know I want to I know I want to people please

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_01]: but I also know that I have to enforce a boundary here. So I there I would say probably about 20

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: years ago I was going through a quarter life crisis if you will right? 20 years. Like right before

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you and I'm in? Yeah okay yeah. I wasn't around for this I'm to be listening with wrap detention.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Well no I think it okay maybe not a quarter life crisis but anyway I was I was going through

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_01]: a hard face or whatever and one of the things that I kept praying for was a backbone.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I wish I had had a backbone. I wish I had a backbone please let me have a backbone.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I still feel like that I still feel like I well I feel like I've gotten it's my backbone has

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit but I still wish sometimes that I could just be that no nonsense here's what it is

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_01]: either you like it or you don't like it either you take it or you don't take it kind of person.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I I don't know maybe I'm just not ever supposed to be that person maybe that's just

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_01]: while I was put here on earth was to not be one of those people because we needed more people like

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_01]: there are times where I still feel like I've got to I've said the boundary I've got to keep

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_01]: at this boundary you know saying like I have to have a backbone for this I do think I've gotten

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_00]: better I being stronger about that. You've definitely pulled a branch in your backbone and

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: just grown three sizes. I've pulled a what? The branch Park grew so many sizes back then grew

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_01]: these sizes. God your analogy sometimes are just like what are you talking about okay so my

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_01]: backbone has grown three sizes okay if you say so I don't know I think though because I am such a

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_01]: pushover maybe I'm not as much of a pushover as I used to be I don't know. You're not because just in

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: last like 12 months you've really been very concerned and consistent I might add about like

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_00]: about telling yourself this person has done something it's unacceptable and I have to react based on that.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah you know sometimes there is like even I talk about all of the time the story of the frog in the

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_00]: scorpion. Frey by the only it doesn't know that the scorpion wants to ride on the frogs back to get

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_00]: across a river river halfway across the scorpion stings the frog they both drown and as the

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: frog is drowning he has scorpion. Why did you sting me now we're both gonna die and the scorpion says

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_00]: because I'm a scorpion so I always use that analogy to tell people you can't be upset when a person

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_00]: is who you knew they were because you knew who they were and you also can't change a scorpion

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_00]: from being a scorpion. You have to accept the fact that that person can never honor your boundary

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's not in them to do so therefore you have to not let them get on your back to get across the river.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if my sister is still watching. Yes! Oh she is! Phil just said something to you.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And me. And me. But sorry. But that's the truth. I mean that that's trust me that is really

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_00]: hard to swallow that because like I feel like most of us were taught as young children that

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_00]: like people can change people can change hey people could change who they are they a tired

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_00]: could change his stripes and so on and so forth but like I don't believe in most I believe in all

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_00]: cases that you can only change if you want to change and the ugly truth the matter is that most

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_00]: people do not want to change they are emotionally a piece being exactly who they are or they

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_00]: flashed and watched it some kind of way to say that there's nothing wrong with the way they

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_00]: are as everybody else which you know you and I talked to you a day and I made the comment I'm like

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_00]: if you got that one person that's matted everybody what's the common denominator and anybody

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_00]: it's the person who's matted about everybody. So when there's one person and yeah Phoebe I

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Phoebe just said they don't want to put in the effort and it's it's more than that I don't think

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_00]: it's they don't want to put in the effort I don't think they recognize that there's effort to be put

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah that there's change that needs to be made. I am perfect and without fault it if everybody

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_00]: else is mad that's their problem. Tell me of that sounds familiar or I did nothing wrong it was

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_00]: it was a misunderstanding or you misunderstood me or you misheard me or that's not what I said

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_00]: or any of 10,000 reasons why the figure said about it's ivory not white or it's a medical issue

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_00]: my point is that there could be 10,000 reasons why this person is not accountable for their actions

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_00]: but at the end of the day I go back to the idea that like if you're an adult you have to be accountable

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_01]: for your actions and we were just we just were talking about this being accountable for their

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00]: actions right before the show started. And again you know going back to this banner there is a place for

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: patients there is a place for patients. There are truly there are truly moments when a person like

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_00]: they are failing through no lack of effort and through no malice and in those moments

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_00]: patients is being patient as godsend like you and I have had moments where something has been

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: emotionally overwhelming us and we're just not ourselves you're withdrawn I'm cold and distant because

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm at my wits and that happens and those are moments where like you have to you have to accept

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_00]: the fact that like this person's not themselves right now because of stuff going on and I can

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: see that they're not themselves and I know that given a minute they'll be themselves again so this is

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_00]: not a moment in time where I need to be I need to be an a-hole I need to be patient. You know

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't you don't have to talk about the fact that like there are times when I just I perceive

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that you're a little more irritable than other for some reason and I will literally have a conversation

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_00]: in my head and be like she's having a moment she's having a bad day she's you know she's

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_00]: snapping about things she would not normally snap at like this is not this is not the normal

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: pattern of behavior for my wife so rather than rather than swallow the bait and jump back when

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_00]: she jumps at me I'm just going to be a little more patient in the usual I'm going to try to

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_00]: give her a little bit of grace I'm going to try to let her break away from me and kind of like

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_00]: circle her on wagons knowing that she's not come back but that's a tent. Me set the pace yeah

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_00]: but that's a temporary giving of grace for a temporary situation when it's a long standing

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: when it's a long standing inability to respect you as a person your emotions your boundaries

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_00]: that's not a moment for patience that's a moment for that's a moment to either be push over

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_00]: or push back okay here you so I wrote all of these where there are any personality trades that

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: you could think if I might have overlooked. I don't but if anybody listening wants to put

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_01]: something in the comments and add to that and we have time for this episode but I don't I will

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_01]: have anything else to add really as far as like self-reliant we go back. Go back where? Go back to the

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_01]: go back to the banner so I can read it self-reliant persistence turn patient and then you have

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_01]: the the for that you know go um opposites of that asking for help being stubborn gentle and

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_01]: push over I think that kind of covers it but Stuart that's on them. Stuart Stuart Stuart.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Stuart said like my dark and twist a humor I find humor in everything even when I shouldn't

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_00]: so let's just say that I might have um I might have gotten some really ugly looks over the years

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_00]: because at moments when things were very tense I injected humor and it was not always received well

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that's happened at time or two. Well it's like you said last night you were telling Piper

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_01]: that um oh that one's not on here the overshare oh anxious but you overshare anxious I don't

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_00]: remember how you put it but anxious but oversharing so introvert extravert those are those are some

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I should have included banner support but we can talk about what we wrap up like I and this is going

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: to sound really odd. I have told people this that know me through podcasting and they're always

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_00]: shocked you hear me say I'm an introvert big time and Gillian knows that I'm a major introvert like

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_00]: right now I am not talking to the internet I'm talking to my wife in front of a camera like that's

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_00]: not the few friends that's the way I have to compartmentalize that though because like I started podcast

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_00]: eight years ago because I felt like there was a message that needed to get out and I didn't hear a lot

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_00]: of other people trying to get it out at the time. So I put myself out there but Gillian knows you put

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_00]: me up on a stage in front of like 20 people and I am internally having a panic attack I don't

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_00]: like being in front of people I'm not an extrovert I'm not a crowd person I'm not a give speech person

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I could talk the years off of brass monkey behind a microphone but I'm an introvert and as a result

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_00]: like I get into this really weird position when we go out and we're in a social setting where

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I either like sit there like a piece of wallpaper and barely say it were to anybody or I go

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_00]: completely opposite direction overshare because I'm just so freaking anxious about being around

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_00]: a bunch of people and there is no talking me out of it there is no like a painting

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to get better about picking up the hands but it's just it is purely overshared

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_00]: from a position of anxiety which makes no sense to anybody who knows me through podcast and

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_00]: because I've even had people ask me like how in the world can you be an introvert and you do this

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm like I think it's my talking to the internet. I'm talking to Andrew and Nick and maybe

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you want a guest here and there like that's it in my brain those are the only people there

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and the fact that it then goes out on the internet for hundreds or thousands of people to listen

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_00]: to just does new penetrate my brain because it did I would I'd be difficult to keep doing it.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So as someone who has done public speaking her entire career. Yes since college

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_01]: it is easier and then I know that I've talked to other people who've done this but when I worked

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_01]: for Audivan I had to give animal chats or golf chats or whatever habitat chats in front of

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_01]: thousands of people at a time thousands like there would there would be summers when everyone was

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_01]: at the aquarium maybe it's a rainy day and they wanted to come see the sharks get fed and

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_01]: guess who got to lead that chat and explain what they were seeing in the exhibit. It was me.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Well wasn't just me but anyway it's so much easier to talk in front of a crowd of a thousand

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_01]: people than it is to talk in front of a crowd of 20 people. It's easier for me to talk to children

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_01]: because I teach every day and I see these these kids every day but when you ask me to stand in front

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_01]: of their parents at the beginning of the year and tell them everything that we're doing in

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_01]: the STEM classroom I heart palpitations I just oh man I hate it hate it and this is how much I hate it

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_01]: when the new calendar comes out at the end of the year for the next year that's one of the

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_01]: first things I see is when is parent night. When do I have to have my speech ready to talk in

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_01]: front of parents and it's the parent of everybody it's you know we break it down from pre-K to third

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and then fourth through seventh so I have to talk to all of these parents not everybody comes but we're

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of people and it's so hard to talk in front of a smaller crowd which makes me twist my head

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_00]: because like not only is she most of the kids favorite teacher which by default means all the parents

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_01]: know who you are. Yeah everybody I mean besides pre-K teachers because I mean pre-K parents

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_01]: because they're new to the school but yeah and I teach their kids every year so it's not like

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_01]: you know I have them for third grade and then they go away and that's not the case I see everybody

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_00]: out all year. And quite frankly you know some of these parents socially because like you know we

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_00]: have we have kids that are the same age as our child so you know. Yeah um it's towards comments

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_01]: says you're on the internet for your therapy hour and you're worried about oversharing

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not worried about oversharing. I did I say that? Well okay so when you when we first started

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_00]: podcasting for raising values there were some topics you were very very very very first to getting into

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah in the family it was airing out dirty laundry and the life that I grew up in and all that

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_01]: stuff but maybe this is the backbone that has solidified and maybe it is feel finally

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_01]: you know feels of always finally resonating in my in my ears of if people do something what do

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_00]: you say? If a person is embarrassed about having their deeds aired out it's because they know they

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_01]: were wrong. Yeah and I do I do use this as my therapy and it works and it helps so thanks do

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_00]: it for listening calling me out. But how can well you know it come think of it we're I feel like

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_00]: we start talking about being an introvert but I feel like being an extrovert can also carry

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_00]: its own baggage because you know sometimes having that really big circle of friends that you're

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_00]: very that are very familiar with you sometimes means that I used to be an extrovert I don't think

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_01]: an extrovert anymore. I think I can easily slide back into being an extrovert it's not hard for me to

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_01]: be the first one to approach someone or you know lead the party or anything like that but

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I would rather stay home I would rather you know watch a movie on the couch I would rather not go out

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and eat dinner with the girls I would rather not do any of that stuff. Does that make me an introvert?

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe introvert maybe home body and yeah Phoebe is saying she's nextverted and she can

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_01]: overshare the drop of the hat. I overshare obviously I overshare I have whole podcast to overshare

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_01]: with but I do overshare with people I have stops myself though because there have been so many times

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_01]: when I've walked away from someone or an instance or you know something I've been a part of and I walk

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_01]: away going by the hell did you say all that like oh my god they're gonna be wondering what is wrong

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_01]: with this woman and you know why did you say all that and so I have done a much better job of

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_01]: listening to my internal voice going you know what you really don't need to say that you really don't

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_01]: why do you need to add anything to this conversation why do you need to tell them your part

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_01]: of story or why do you need to give a four instance from your perspective or anything like that

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't have to add anything so I stop adding things and I stopped talking which is fine with

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_01]: me because even though I am on the internet the less people know about me the better and that weird

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_01]: there's one your a podcaster but you don't want people to know anything about you. I think you might

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_00]: rabba like I think I think the real key to not I feel like the real key to any one of these things

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_00]: we talked about today is to find balance like any one of these things like starting off with like

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_00]: self-reliance but can you ask for help being self-reliance is a good thing being able to take

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_00]: care yourself wanting to take care of yourself that's a good thing but the balance is when I absolutely

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_00]: cannot do this by myself can I humbly ask somebody else for help and not hold it over my own head.

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I feel like with everyone of these personality traits it's not the trait that becomes the

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_00]: problem it's the extreme of the trait it's not being able to switch back and forth as the

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_00]: as the situation dictates if that makes sense and I feel like you know when we do fall into those

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_00]: pits where we're all aware all the other I feel like that's where we start struggling life.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not it's not being patient or being a pushover it's can you transition back and forth as

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_00]: situation dictates there are times when I mean like you know you and you and Piper the other day

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_00]: hit me up or actually knows Piper but you weren't fighting her but you'll hit me up about like

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_00]: out of you. I did no such thing but in any case there's a there's a time to say

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I've got the money we're not we're not we're not destitute and it would really make the

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_00]: girls night go out to eat and then there's a time to say I really need to hold onto this money

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_00]: because we need it for something which I've done and being able to navigate when it's appropriate

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_00]: to use each one of those options is where we get balance where you don't you don't default

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_01]: to just one position all the time. I love how you use that as an example to wrap the show up

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_00]: taking your girls home to eat or not. I'll be the first to admit when it comes to you and Piper

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I am a pushover in a lot of ways. It's recorded. It is I have a heart I it's not that I can't say no

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like saying no. I will do it if it's like you know financial responsibility, self preservation

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_00]: if I think if I think the right thing to do is to say no then I'll do it even if I don't like

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_00]: do it but that's also an aspect of my personality that we didn't really talk about is

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I will do what I think is the right thing to do regardless of whether or not I want to do it

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_00]: no matter how painful it is no matter how you know does it doesn't matter to me

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_00]: this is the right thing to do that's what I'm going to do and I will go to no matter what it takes

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_00]: but probably the hardest thing I have to do on a regular basis is tell you or her now

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_00]: because I don't I don't like doing it. I would rather I'd rather just be able to say yes all the

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_00]: time and spoil all both rotten but sometimes that's just not the right thing to do. I guess not

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess not that's recording the internet now too okay well we do have to go ahead and wrap this

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_00]: episode up I have to give it a go to work. No probably in about 45 minutes but

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was a good topic like said this is one of the things that just came up with

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_00]: the patrons and we were talking back and forth about it and I saw that opportunity to

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_00]: to have that discussion because I feel like a lot of us fall a lot of us see a person now

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_00]: like we could recognize a person now to trade in ourselves but sometimes I don't think we can

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_00]: see that that person I trade might cut both directions. Yeah okay well thanks for joining us

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_01]: thanks for being a part of the comment section everybody who was here and listening

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and then all that good stuff so hope you all have a great rest of your weekend I know it's

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Sunday start to the start to the work day start to the work week I mean so thanks for joining us

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_01]: guys we'll see you all next week. Bye everybody. Bye.