Raising Values: Trauma Bonding

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to the Raising Values podcast where the traditional family talks. You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher and Spotify and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram. You can support the Raising Values podcast through Patreon. Phil and Gillian are behind the mic and we hope you enjoy the show.

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to Raising Values. Good morning everybody. I was jamming out. We never have headphones on so I got to hear our intro music this morning. So I was like, yeah, that was fun. The reason we have on headphones this morning is because we have a special guest and she is special in many ways.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: My sister Phoebe is out of the comments section and she is on with us live this morning. So she is hailing from Lafayette, Louisiana and she was just telling us about all the things that they're cooking this week and it makes me really jealous and sad.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I really want to go over to her house and eat. But anyway, welcome back to Gillian's Therapy Hour where we discuss the trauma that is happening in my life and Phoebe's and that's why she's on today.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate you all being on and dealing with this. I think last week I said this on the show, but Phil, we always talk about what are we going to talk about this week on the show. Phil is always like, we just need to talk about what's going on in our lives and that makes it so much easier to do.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But I had so many hang ups with doing that because the things that are going on in my life are very personal and it is, in a sense, airing dirty laundry. And I said that I would never do that, especially while people who are still alive, you know that I was talking about.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But it makes for a good show and I'll get to that in a minute. And true, it is kind of like therapy for me too. So there are some things that we have talked about first though. Prepper camp is a month away guys. Oh my gosh. It is a month and two days away and I'm so excited.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I've already got my substitutes lined up. Lesson plans are done. I am ready to pack the truck and go. And we've been looking at the weather up in Saluda, North Carolina. The high has been in the 70s right now. Yeah. And the lows are in the 50s. So it's perfect camping weather up there. I believe that you can still purchase tickets.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I believe tickets are still for sale. I will say that, like as I usually do when we get to this time of the year, if somebody still wants to go, tickets are available. Camp sites at Orchard Lake are going to be tricky.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's anything available camp site-wise. Well, all I will say is in past years, there's always last minute cancellation. So like if you're dead set and you want to go, I would say start looking at like Airbnbs. There are a couple of hotel options within 30 to 45 minutes drive so that you won't be able to stay at Orchard Lake but you'll be able to come in and then go home in the afternoons.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So like there's definitely options available if somebody still wants to make that trip. And if you're within a few hours of Saluda, North Carolina, it's a day trip in and out. So it's a really incredible event and it's a fun time. And if you're at all interested in like preparedness or survivalism or just a family being able to take care of themselves, self-rescue when everything goes to hell in a handbasket, this is a good place to meet other people who are also on that journey and just get not

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: knowledge dumps from people because the people that teach classes out there and honestly a lot of people who just come out to the event for the camaraderie, they're subject matter experts in the things that they know.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Phil and Nick just did a really good show with the godfather of prepping, Rick Austin, who him and his wife are the founders of Prepper Camp. Phil, Andrew and Nick but you know Nick is one of matter of fact's newest hosts but he won't be at Prepper Camp this year.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But Phil and Andrew will be and they will be podcasting live. Are you all doing some live shows? It won't be live. Okay, so but you can come meet the guys. They are the official podcasters for Prepper Camp though. The whole Prepper Broadcasting Network is. Prepper Broadcasting Network. That's what we're all on. So actually I think we'll all be there this year. Hopefully I think Prepper Broadcasting Network anyway. I would say comfortably 90% of Prepper Broadcasting Network will be out there in one past year or another. Several of them are teaching classes.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I have told Rick if someone drops out the last second, you need a class taught like call me and I'll figure something out to fill in the gap. But like my intention with matter of fact really is to go out there and record content. Try to grab show goers. Bring them into the show. Get their viewpoint of the event and just be an ambassador for PBN and ambassador for Prepper Camp to the audience.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so head over to check out that show that they did with Rick Austin. Pretty amazing. It's always fun to have him on. It's always like when Rick comes on countdown to Prepper Camp has begun the official countdown and it always looks like so much fun. Y'all look like y'all have the best time. So it's a work trip for us, but it is the trip that I am always most excited about in the year. I was bummed that I missed it last year. That will never happen again.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So it is. It is so much fun and it's like.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like going home because you're with a bunch of people there that think like you. They do the same things you do. You're not oddball out, you know, prepper weirdo living in a bunker waiting for the zombies to attack your your learning basic life skills.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's always fun and it's beautiful North Carolina. So how can you go wrong with that merchandise? We've said it will say it again and again and again. There's new merch on the site for raising values and for matter of facts.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: It's in the show notes. The link is in the show notes so you can head over to Southern Gals.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I always butcher this. It's in the show notes. In the show notes there's a thing that says merch and there's a link right next to it. You can't miss it. Go there.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm wearing one of our shirts today. First of all, I'm a delight with my angry possum.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It's my favorite shirt and it always gets people to stop in the grocery store and say, oh I like your shirt.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Other thing that's new is so we have a matter of fact's patron signal chat. So all of our patrons that care to join the nerds over and matter of facts. We have a signal chat and you know that chat. You got to turn it off sometimes.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It just goes and goes. But we did have a listener who is a patron who asked if we could have a raising value signal chat.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought about it for about 20 minutes and I was like, yeah, why not? So we now have a raising values patron chat.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you are a patron for matter of fact, you're all automatically a patron to raising values. Surprise!

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And you can come over to that chat as well where we won't be talking about just guns politics and prepping. We'll be talking about everyday life kind of stuff, which I think is what we need, which is one of the things that I wanted to talk about this morning.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_03]: The patron that reached out to me to start this chat.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Really? Well, she made me cry first of all, but I wanted to read this to you because I when I started this chat, when Phil and I started this podcast over a year ago, Phil came to me.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I went to Phil and I said, I think I think this could be beneficial. I think I have a lot to talk about. I've been through a lot.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we could really discuss some things, some deep things on this podcast. And he said, well, do you think you have enough content?

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, yeah, I think I do. Let's do it. So we did it. Here we are over a year later.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_03]: But I always question, am I doing the right thing? Am I saying the right thing? Are we reaching people?

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we don't have a lot of we get a lot of listeners, but we don't have a lot of interaction with the people that listen to our podcast, especially raising values.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But this she texted me this and I get this from listeners sometimes. And sometimes I get it from people I don't even know.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: They'll message me on Instagram or Facebook say they listen to this show and this is how it impacted them.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's always nice to see that the things that we are doing on raising values does impact people.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to read this really quick and I'm sorry to our friend if she didn't want me to read this, but it impacted me.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: So I wanted to say this too. So recently I have to give a little backstory.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Recently, we've been discussing a lot of my history and my sister's both of my sister's history growing up and the trauma and abuse that we have been through and continue to go through.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And like I said, it's been hard to discuss because I don't ever you know, my personality is to never throw anyone under the bus.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't create waves. Always be the peacemaker. Yada yada yada.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I am trying to break away from that and and to set boundaries and all that stuff.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And so she said, the way I see it, fast trauma is a destroyed building site that's burned down and pillaged.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And you decided not to just look at it each day and its ugliness.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_03]: But instead you found a way to plant flowers. It doesn't change the damage of what happened, but it does create something new and valuable beyond that destroyed ground.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And you give those flowers to your listeners, not grateful for the damage site, but grateful that you could grow flowers out of the damage that you couldn't avoid.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And my God, I sent that to you, Phoebe. I sent that to our other sister, Gabriel.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, and I even sent it to Bailey and I was like, ladies, you need to read this.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_03]: It hit home and it was like, wow.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_03]: We went back and forth with the conversation.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_03]: She comes from an abusive home, too.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And this has just I think talking about these things does help people.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And for so long, I wanted to just keep it hush hush because one, that's what you do.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: You don't talk about the dirty laundry. You don't air it out.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_03]: You especially don't put your parents in bad light. You don't put your family in a bad light.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, how dare you? And then I just always have Phil in the back of my head saying, well, if they're ashamed of what they did, then they shouldn't have done it.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, not not to sound like the hyper rational pragmatist that I usually am, but like, yeah, if you're ashamed, it's because you know you screwed up.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. And you cry in the same breath.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Truth is the ultimate defense against slander.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Like if you're telling the truth, you can be mad, but you can't be mad at what I said because I told the truth.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Right. So I didn't do a real good introduction to Phoebe.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_03]: She's been on the show before. We've had conversations in the past of Phoebe's journey through addiction, family disease and things like that.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And Phoebe and I weren't always the best of friends.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_03]: We weren't. We are sisters.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_03]: We're sisters. She is five years older than me.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I still would take the diapers over the kids anyway, you know?

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thanks.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_03]: But Phoebe and I, our relationship took a turn.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_03]: She was inactive addiction. She was dying.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_03]: She was dying and I called the police to have her arrested and figure out a way that I wasn't going to lose my sister.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_03]: That was my biggest fear is that I was going to lose my sister to addiction.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was one of the hardest moments.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I will never forget it.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It was something that I didn't think I could ever do.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And I did it and she hated me for it for so long.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_03]: She hated me. But now we are best of friends.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_03]: She is she has been clean and sober for how long?

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Nine years.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so happy.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Nine years. It'll be ten years in December.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_03]: My heart just jumps for that.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just it's so it's so good to hear that.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And you've come such a long way.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And we've kind of talked about this, especially on that show that we did.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It's probably been a year now since we've done that show.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the first ones.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. You and Andrew, your fiance, soon to be husband in just a few months, couple of months.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about your addiction and where like why you started, why you turned to drugs, why you turned to alcohol and things like that.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And one of those things I had and you blew me away and I wasn't ready for it was because of the abuse that you received as a child.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've said this before on this podcast, my sisters, both of my sisters were physically more physically abused than I was.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I was more emotionally manipulated and abused in that sense.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And that is what I'm trying to break away from now because that abuse still happens.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And luckily for my sisters, they they have been able to break away from that.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_03]: They've been able to put up their boundaries and block that abuse and block just simply like block the person, block it on their phone, block it from entering their lives.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what I'm trying to deal with.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So what we're talking about today, the title of the episode is Trauma Bonding.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And my sister, Phoebe said this on the phone.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we were talking this week about things and we always we always go ask the question, well, have you heard from mom and dad?

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Have you heard from have you heard from anyone over in that area?

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we stopped for a second.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_03]: We asked ourselves, why?

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Why are we nothing?

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_03]: If anything major is happening, we'll hear about it, right?

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll hear about it.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So I started thinking about well, first I said trauma bonding.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: That's it. That's what we need to talk about this week.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And Phoebe, can you please be on the show?

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And how we we said and I don't know if you did this because I never got back to you.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_03]: You're like, I'm going to text Gabriel soon as I get off the phone with you and we're we're going to like cut this off now.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_03]: We're not going to do this.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Trauma bonding.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But what I did and I'll let you talk in just a second.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're fine.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Keep going.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_03]: What I did was I did a really quick wiki like a Internet search on trauma bonding.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_03]: What is it?

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_03]: What you know, what is it?

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_03]: What is trauma bonding?

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So I wanted to read this part because what I thought trauma bonding was according to the interwebs, it's not trauma bonding is an intense emotional connection or attachment that can be formed between people who experience a traumatic experience.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So it is what you and I talked about the way that we bond over the trauma that we've been through and go through, such as a couple who experience a car accident or pregnancy loss.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It can also occur when a person experiencing abuse develops an unhealthy attachment to their abuser.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So you and I and Gabriel and Bailey, not so much Bailey.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Bailey is Phoebe's daughter, by the way, who was also raised by our parents when yeah.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, we we often trauma bond in that way.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_03]: We talk about what's happened.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_03]: What you know, what did what what did you hear today?

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_03]: What did you get?

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_03]: What did I get?

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And we do this whole round Robin of our experiences in daily life.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And what the aha moment was this week was we have to stop doing that.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to build boundaries and with those boundaries means that I need to take a step back.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I don't need to know what you talked to them about.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_03]: If it doesn't, if it doesn't directly affect me, then I need to just leave it alone because what I told Phil this this last week was I am tired of.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I am tired of my day being constantly filled with that.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm tired of thinking about it.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm tired of talking about it.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm tired of asking about it.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm tired of constantly being triggered by it.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've got to start breaking away from those that thing, those that trauma.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And and so I need to stop talking about it with you guys, my sisters and my niece.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_03]: But that doesn't mean that we can't come together and vent.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't mean that that can't happen, but it just doesn't need to take 90 percent of our day.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So I did want to read just a few of these because this list of signs and symptoms of trauma bonding is it's forever long.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But as I read through this, I was like I was thinking, holy crap, this is me.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Trauma bond into my abusers.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And, baby, I know when I read these, you're going to be like, yeah, I told you.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I told you that one, too.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I told you that one.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And Phil is Bill's going to be like, uh huh.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I said that one, too.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Rationalizing or defending the abusers action.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_03]: How many text messages have you received from me that said, OK, but if you call, be nice.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Be remember that don't make way.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Be nice and remember that they're having a hard time.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Remember that blah, blah, blah.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Be nice.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Feeling a sense of loyalty to the abuser.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Isolating from others.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_03]: How many times have I pulled away?

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You're getting closer to the camera.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And Phil is kicking me with his knee going, uh huh, uh huh.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, it gets better.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Hoping that the abuser's behavior will change.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Having an intense fear or hesitation about leaving the relationship.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Constantly covering up or making excuses for the abuser's behavior.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Believing the mistreatment is your fault or that you deserve it.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Believing that, I'm sorry, feeling close to the abuser even if you haven't known them for a long, but I've known them for 40 years.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Being willing to make major life changes for a relatively new relationship.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, trauma bonding can have severe detrimental effects on the victim including remaining in the abusive relationship.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Adverse mental health outcomes like low self-esteem and negative self-image.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_03]: An increased likelihood of depression and bipolar disorder.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Perpetuating a generational cycle of abuse.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I'm going to come back to this one.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_03]: This one is some ways to work on detoxing from a traumatic bond.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we'll kind of, we'll go through that in a minute.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But I wanted to kind of focus on those things.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I checked off every one as I went.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Every one.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And at some point you did too.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh absolutely.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And so did our other sister and I should have asked her to come onto it.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It would have been quite the show.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Phil would have been like, yeah I'm not coming on.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah I know.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_03]: You can do this one.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I have done every single one of those.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I have done every single one of those up until probably last week.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I do feel like there have been times when I have cut off the abuse.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I have, you know, cut off communication.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But I always go back.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And that is my fear now is that I'm going to go back.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But in a way I feel different.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like my energy is different.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I've hit my wall of wanting to be and do this.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I want to, I will always be there.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_03]: In emergencies, medical crisis, whatever.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But I cannot show up in the way that I've always showed up.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And I cannot allow my emotions and my power to be held hostage anymore.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and I would also say that you can't allow your emotions to be manipulated.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Because like you and I have talked about, in my perspective,

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a totally different thing if we get the call and someone needs physical help.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_01]: To guard their immediate emotional well-being.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a totally different thing if what's being happened is there's an attempt to manipulate

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and we're being drugged into the middle of somebody else's fight.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you and I in this family have to set some very clear boundaries

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: about these are the things we are willing to be involved in

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and these are the things that we're not even going to address.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And it has to be that cut and dry of,

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_01]: if this is you two are fighting with each other and you're calling,

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_01]: looking for allies, we're not involved in this.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: If you two are fighting and that's the reason that we're getting called over to help do this

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_01]: or help do that because you can't figure out how to manipulate the other partner

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: into doing it for you, we're not getting involved.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You two be adults and work it out.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It's, but it's the, it's not,

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe you're trying to like remove a familial obligation to help your parents.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I believe what you're trying to do, which I think is appropriate,

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: is you're trying to remove the ability for you to be manipulated emotionally.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and you know, for so long we were emotionally hijacked basically.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we were manipulated and torn between mom, dad, you know,

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_02]: hate your dad, hate your mom.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if you don't, if you don't love me, if you side with her,

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: you don't love me if you side with him.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I think the other day you said something about Stockholm syndrome.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it Stockholm?

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I did, but yeah.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Phil said that that's what I have.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I was thinking about that and it's like, you know,

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: you're basically being emotionally kidnapped and you have, you know,

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_02]: we've been so loyal to them for so long.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to just jump out of a relationship with your parents,

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: especially, you know, because you do want to help them and you do want to

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_02]: love them. But there has to be a fine line drawn in the sand,

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, from everybody's point of view,

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: because narcissists and manipulators will always try to move that line

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and try to erase it just to get what they want.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_03]: True. And we see that all the time.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it's really crazy because when you live in this type of

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_03]: environment for so long and you start to understand what's happening to you,

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_03]: you can see it in other people.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's not just family, but seeing it in maybe people in your friends

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_03]: group or seeing it in your coworkers.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I do a really good job, I believe.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I do a really good job when they're not part of my family.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I can totally shut off relationships.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I can break it off. No?

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: There have been some friendships that I said for years were toxic in one

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_01]: side that you continued to foster until you finally had enough.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And in my opinion, you tolerated those friendships,

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: in some cases for years longer than I would have because I'm not willing

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: to be in a one-sided relationship.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But I've done the same thing, but I think what is different between that is

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_02]: we want to fix them. We want to help them to death.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm saying? We want to be able to fix that.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a fixer. I'm a people pleaser. I'm a fixer.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. I will help you through your trauma.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I will help you through your stress and your whatever.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's because I have so many places to pull from.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I have the experience to help you with that.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But what I have to do and what this year has been to me is

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I have to give my own medicine to myself.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I have to... Phil, you can't hear it, but his head is doing this giant bob.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. Yeah. And inside my head there's a little Phil screaming at the top of his lungs.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I've been saying that for years!

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I know. But it takes time for someone to...

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Come to that conclusion.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, not just come to that conclusion, but be comfortable with taking care of themselves

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_03]: because all I've ever done is take care of other people.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I get anxiety when I can't help that person.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I go to extremes to help those people.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Phoebe, I don't talk about the beginning of your recovery

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_03]: to push that in your face or anything.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_03]: When it was time to call the police and have Phoebe start down that path,

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I was not okay. I was an emotional wreck.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But I was okay with making that decision because she needed that help.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I had to help her. Because you weren't getting it from anyone else.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You weren't going to do it yourself.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely not.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But the hard decision needed to be made.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And what really sucks is that the two people that should have been making that decision

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_03]: couldn't and wouldn't.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Wouldn't, yeah.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember the particulars around that moment in time,

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: but I do remember being very supportive of you saying basically,

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: look, you and I both know where this ends if she doesn't get help.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So the decision you're making is not stand by my sister or betray her.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It is literally save her life by giving her what she doesn't want

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_01]: or give her what she wants and bury her in a couple of weeks.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_01]: That's where we're at.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, and aside from buried in a couple of weeks,

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: that's the same thing with our parents.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Either give them what they want or be punished mentally, emotionally, physically.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, don't you hear the fun currently being punished.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You are.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_03]: When I realized this, it was a weight lifted off my shoulder because

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_03]: it wasn't me making that decision.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it made it makes it easier to cut that off

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_03]: because they're making the decision to cut me off, which is fine.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_03]: That's totally fine. It makes it easier.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel the guilt of having not called or having not texted

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: because one, I've done those things they weren't received and or I was hung up on.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So it made it easier to to to feel better about putting those boundaries up.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's just what it is.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So in my head, I'm I'm able to sleep a little bit better because

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I've done what I can, at least emotionally.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_03]: The process that I would take personally would take I've done.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've reached out and I've talked to a lot of people.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, it is what it is at this point.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember where I was going with that because I started thinking about something else.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And anyway, the squirrel ran up the tree and you started barking.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, so back to the don't say squirrels too loud.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no. Yeah, no.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So kind of back to the topic of trauma bonding.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's something that we've always done even I think even when we were younger

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and when we were kids, I don't know.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_03]: There's so much I don't remember and then so much I didn't know that happened in our house.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, there was that show that you were on at the beginning when we first started this.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You had said something out loud and I was like, wait, what?

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I had no idea that that happened to you, which has stuck with me since and kind of

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_03]: started the ball rolling on this isn't this isn't good.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_03]: This isn't healthy. This is this.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_03]: This can't happen. This. What? That happened.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And whatever. Anyway, it kind of just yeah, it kind of threw me for a loop.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_03]: But I can remember now because you are older than us and I like to remind you of that.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_03]: You when I was 10, you were 15.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And so your life was somewhere else.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I was a 10 year old. So what?

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Fourth grade, third, fourth grade, and you were high school.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So I had Gabriel and we shared a room and a living room.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_03]: But I can remember bonding with her over a lot of things.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I can remember like kneeling next to her bed while she cried or whatever and talking to her through through some things.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So we as a kid, as kids, we kind of trauma bonded

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_03]: mainly just to kind of work through the scary things that were happening and the things that we were questioning.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And why did this happen or what did you do?

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, you did that and you got that kind of punishment.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it was it was always kind of we talked through it kind of like that.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But once we became adults and realized how freaking messed up things were in our house, that's when well, it really we really didn't even do it then.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm going to say this and please don't get your feelings hurt because Bailey went through the same thing.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Bailey, she when she when she had to move in with mom and dad, she was raised the same way.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And she was the one who raised the flag and said, Hey, guys, this isn't right.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And I need to get out of here.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And how are we going to who's going to help me do this?

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think I don't know where well, I know where you were.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You were inactive addiction at that point.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_03]: It's funny. We keep having people come in and out and they're like, no, we're not watching this today.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It's crazy. We usually have like four or five people that actively watch and we are at zero.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, you were inactive addiction.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I was still very much holding on to the romantic thought of my parents on a pedestal kind of thing.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, Gabri. Well, first off, Gabri lives five hours away, so she's she was always kind of out of touch with everything.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And she had her own children and family, which is fine.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I should have listened looking back now.

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I should have listened and was like, you know, this child is crying out for help.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I know what she's saying because, you know, we went we went through those things.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But we said the same thing.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_03]: We did say the same thing.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But in a sense, maybe we didn't because some of the things that she said, oh, Jennifer's here.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Wonder why it's not showing up that you're here.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, some of the things that she said that was happening to her, I don't remember happening to us like being fed medication or,

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, her her food being cooked with different medicines so that she'd go to sleep at night.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Which I still I still think about that and go, what the hell?

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_03]: What the hell?

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I will I will always privately harbor this this what if in my head, because you remember right before the decision was made for her to go live with your parents.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You and I had had a conversation about not can we make this work?

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But if Bailey had to go stay with somebody, we'd have the conversation of basically having to come live with us.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not going to say things would have been fun because, you know, we were living in a one bedroom apartment at the time.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we were both trying to make it ourselves.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But you and I basically said if she needs a place to go, she's coming here.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And then, I mean, the decision got made for her to go live with your parents.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And at that point, it was like we don't we don't have a call to override that.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. There was some legal stuff, too, I think, involved with that.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: That we really couldn't we couldn't fight.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But I will I will always wonder how how much how differently would her life have been for that period of time if she'd come and stay with us?

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, you know, I'm a spiritual person.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not religious.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, if I say God, it doesn't definitely, you know, doesn't mean but everything happens for a reason.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I think I don't know.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not the only person that looks at this, but Bailey's damn good mom.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she is a very strong person.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And she actually, as we said this the other night when we had the late night phone call, we should have taken a page out of her book a long time ago.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: We do keep saying that about Bailey.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Bailey. Yeah.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Bailey has always been really good about cutting people off and not necessarily in a bad way.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_03]: She's just really good at noticing toxic people.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_01]: She's a fellow Libra.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_01]: That's why she is a Libra.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Is she a Libra?

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Her birthday is what? Four days away from mine.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_02]: She's either here or there.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_02]: She's never in between.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's either I love you dearly, I will fall on a sword for you, or you do not exist.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And that is exactly how she is.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And being an Aquarius, I am not like that at all.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I am going to save everyone because that is who I am.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So, but that's been the topic of conversation in our little circle for a while is we all just need to take a page out of Bailey's book.

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_03]: We all just need to figure out how.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Bailey, can I take notes?

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_02]: How do we do this?

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Bailey just needs to host a class.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we should have Bailey on.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Or y'all could just listen to me for a change.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Or that.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_03]: What did you say?

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Who just spoke?

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Who was that?

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know who.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_03]: There was another voice in here.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she's really good at noticing toxic people, noticing toxic things, and then putting up a boundary and saying, haha, it's like a lululu.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_03]: You're not going to be a part of this little family, this little life.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, if you don't mind me saying something, even with that, like I told you earlier, I'm getting the grandkids today, at least two of them.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: In 20 minutes, by the way.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: In 20 minutes.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But there's a part of me that still wants to call my mom and dad and let them talk to them because they give us that I won't ever see my great grandkids.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to be in college before we see them.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's still a part of me that aches.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, so welcome to my world of the guilt.

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_03]: The guilt is always dripping.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm always dripping with guilt.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And I understand that, Phoebe.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I hear you when you say that.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you have this one over here, Phil, who is going, so?

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: They did that to themselves, though.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But again, it's the difference in perspective.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it's I don't think it's as much because like you're their child and I'm not.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's more just a perspective of like in the way I was raised.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I have two priorities in this world that go above everything else.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's you and our child.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody else's happiness and well-being is somewhere down the line.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And to me, it's like if I think this is an unhealthy environment for my wife and daughter,

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I am emotionally at peace taking them out of the environment forever, no matter who it affects.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I just it's not that I'm cold or I'm looking for an opportunity to hurt somebody.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just I don't care.

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: My responsibility is these two people.

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And if it's good for them, I'm going to give it to them.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And if it's not, I'm not going to.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, like that is the way I was raised.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I was raised by a man who believed that when you marry and have children, that's your family.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_01]: My parents will always be my parents, but they are not my they're not my family.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: The three people who live in this house are my responsibility.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So because we have about 20 minutes left before those munchkins get there,

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_03]: which I better get a face time because I haven't talked to them in a while.

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Some ways to work on detoxing from a trauma bond include focusing on the present.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I actually I was scrolling through Instagram this morning and because of my whichy woo woo

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_03]: ness, one of these meditation sites came up and the question was asked of how do I how how do I stay in the present?

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_03]: How do I stop going into the past or the future?

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know that sounds like crazy, which you will stuff.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_03]: But it was it's actually very simple.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: You just really have to focus on feeling yourself right here right now.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I am talking to my sister.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking to my husband.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I am talking about a really hard subject.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome, Stuart. You're a little late.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I saw your comment where it's Gillian's therapy hour again.

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So welcome.

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But that's where I am right now.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in the present and I have a hard time with that because I'm constantly worrying about the future

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and I'm constantly worrying about how I handled the past.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Bill's face this morning has subtitles.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Has subtitles, y'all.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry if you're not watching.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_03]: You need to go back and watch this because he's just going.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep. Told you.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Told you so.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But one day think about the future and you say that it's called future tripping because we have that in recovery too,

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: because we always worry about what the future is going to hold and what we could have done different in the past.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, I get it.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's crazy how all these things kind of fit together.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_03]: They all rhyme.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_03]: They all rhyme.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a reason and they were in a rhyme.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: But focusing on the present.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I know that I said this before I even started to read through this list at the beginning of this show was I am already scared that I'm going to screw this up,

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_03]: that I'm going to go back, that I'm going to make an excuse, that the guilt is going to get to me and I'm going to drop those boundaries that I've been building and whatever.

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to go back.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And so that's where I am living in the future right now is thinking of when and how am I going to fail?

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I've always failed.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But when and how is it going to happen?

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Other ways to to detox from a trauma bond is creating space and boundaries, which is something that I'm working on.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Finding support, which I am obviously I have my close friends and family that I can talk to about that.

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_03]: But this podcast has been a lot of therapy and support.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I make a joke.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to Gillian's therapy hour.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But it is it's nice to talk about it.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And then what I've learned is there are so many people who deal with this have dealt with this, that this is not uncommon,

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_03]: that the way our family was when we were growing up and the way it is now is a very common place for people.

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, which is scary.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very scary.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And it makes me really wonder about the mental health of this country.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Not that I haven't already been wondering about the mental health of this country, but it really does make me wonder about that.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_03]: The child's awake.

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Practicing self care.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So that is actually something and I think so.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, let me let me kind of break this one down a little bit.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Twenty twenty the end of twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four has been a revolutionary year for me.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I have started to focus on myself.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I have taken control of my health.

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I have started down and is going currently down, which will probably never end this spiritual journey.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I've made decisions in my life that are were hard to make because of the way that we were raised in such a such a hardcore Baptist Christian home,

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_03]: which I know dealing with church trauma as long as you know, in tandem with family trauma.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of trauma going on, a lot of bonding, not bonding, sorry, a lot of fixing that needs to happen.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But what I have done is I have really started taking care of myself physically, my physical well-being, but my spiritual well-being.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I've really, really, really allowed myself to go down a path that I've always known was there for me that I should be on,

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_03]: but was told it's a sin.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to go to hell and you know, you can't you can't think about these things.

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You can't talk about these things.

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You can't question these things.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_03]: You can't you can't be on that path because you'll go to hell.

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll burn in hell forever.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_03]: What I've done is allowed myself to feel those feelings and allowed myself to make those decisions for myself.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm no longer a child being raised in this Baptist church where everything you do is wrong and everything, you know.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_02]: You second guess yourself on everything.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And we've kind of talked about the trauma from church in a past episode, but just like one of my patrons said was it takes five.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It takes five times doing something before it becomes a habit.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_03]: So it kind of gave me the permission to talk about these things over and over and over again.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_03]: But part of my spiritual journey and healing and part of my part of my trauma healing has to come has I also have to look at the trauma that was received from church and the people of church

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and these these godly Christian people who did horrible things.

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they did horrible things, said horrible things and made horrible things.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, you know, these these things that they did and said.

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm also dealing with that in such and this is probably going to be a shocker.

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_03]: This is probably the hardest thing that I have.

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I have trouble saying this and it's really trouble just with myself and my own psyche is I have stepped away from Christianity.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I've stepped away from everything to take a take a hard look at all of it.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And if I decide to come back to it, then I decide to come back to it.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_03]: If I don't, I don't believe in the whole Baptist damnation of your soul anymore.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I've already put in a request for your excommunication.

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It's pending. It's pending.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the fall in.

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So I will highlight an exclamation point a thousand times practicing self care.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you have to.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the things that I have enjoyed doing and I love that my husband is so good about going, OK, sure, babe, whatever you need.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we've built a spiritual meditation garden in the backyard now where I can ground and meditate.

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, my husband doesn't judge me in any way of this witchy woo woo stuff that I do.

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But shoot, where was I going with that?

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember. Dang it.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I need it when that happens. Thank you.

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_02]: The other day, you were saying we were on the phone.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You said I already took my energy back from them.

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't I don't have to allow them to keep me emotionally hostage today.

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm doing this for me.

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I found, you know, because you said the other day, too.

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how you can just block them off or not talk to them.

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this back, you know, this I can't wake up every day going, what's going on with mom and dad?

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What's happening there?

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. What happens is going to happen, you know, distance makes the heart grow fonder.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Is the absence the distance?

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_03]: But which is kind of the same thing, right?

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_03]: If you're distant, you're absent.

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_01]: It used to be until the days of like social media and cell phones where we're all interconnected as much as we are.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_03]: But I guess kind of what I'm getting at is the less I have to do with it, the less I think about it.

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is kind of like a whole opposite of what you just said.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if your husband's like my fiance, but Andrew's always like, what's going on with your mom and dad?

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I haven't even thought about it until you brought it up.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I only bring it up if there's been a recent event and I'm really just checking on her to be like, where are you on this?

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Because right.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And he doesn't understand.

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, he understands a little bit.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Phil, you've been here for 20 years.

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_02]: He's been here for seven.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you've seen a way lot more than he has.

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think he's a peacemaker, too.

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_02]: He wants to make the peace, but he just wants to keep the distance too.

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that might be more personality thing because like said to me, it just it really just comes down to like, I mean, we had this.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I had this out with someone else because they got their feelings hurt because like I didn't call and text them all the time.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, my parents that raised me from three days after I was born, I might go a month without speaking to.

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not because I hate them.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It's because they have their life and I have mine and we're all doing stuff.

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And if they need me or just want to sign off, they'll call or text.

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's not this I don't have this constant need to be in their business.

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So and that's that's my goal.

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_03]: That's where I'm trying to get.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've done good for a week.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_03]: You have done pretty good for a week.

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Pat myself on the back.

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Developing healthy relationships.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, this is what I've done to develop healthy relationships.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I've gotten rid of relationships.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I was thinking of the relationship, not even just that, but I've gotten rid of just relationships.

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I talked to maybe five people on like a weekly basis.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Phoebe, you, Gabriel, my coworkers.

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_03]: But that stops at three thirty.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, so I don't have a lot of people in in my my like whole unit.

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_03]: My my my close close circle.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I have a lot of people in my outer circle, mostly like our tribe and all that stuff.

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Phoebe's friends over in Lafayette and all that.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_03]: But what what I wanted to say was developing healthy relationships.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_03]: We have a relationship.

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, we've been together for 20 years now.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But our relationship took another step last week when I was leaving for work.

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a Friday.

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_03]: This this was Thursday night was a 1030 phone call of just 1130.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no.

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_03]: It was 1030 when it happened and didn't end until 1130 midnight.

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I had just gotten home at eight thirty from school because we had an event at school.

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Not I didn't get in bed until nine thirty.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I was literally just put my book down and checked my phone just to see, you know, what time it was or whatever and saw a text and a voicemail.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And the ball just started rolling from there.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was so emotionally just done at that point.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Like frayed and frayed edges.

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I called you.

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't even catch my breath.

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I was so emotional crying.

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm walking out the door to go to work that Friday.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And I looked at my husband and I said, You're off your leash.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_03]: You're off your leash.

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_03]: You have to be respectful.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's that was my that was my trauma bond.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_03]: That was my making peacemaker.

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_03]: That was my peacemaker coming out.

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_03]: But I had said, You're off your leash.

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And I haven't put him back on his leash yet.

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So I have never said I've never said that to him.

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_01]: All I told you when you said it was if you're taking me off, I'm off.

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't put you can't put this genie back in the bottle because once I get involved, I'm involved and I'm going to deal with it my way.

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll be respectful to a client.

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and I'm so glad.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. And so developing healthy relationships, like I said, we took another step in our relationship after 20 years because now what will happen is I will and this might sound some people are going to be like, Wow, that's kind of controlling my relationship with Phil.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_03]: As far as my family goes with these two people is a text will no longer be by myself, then it will be a group chat or whatever.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Or I won't text the conversation won't continue until Phil is around to read it and be a part of it.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Speaker phone will always be on and Phil will always be there and or he will answer the phone.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_03]: What was the other thing?

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_03]: There was another thing that Phil will.

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that was it.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, that was it.

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll answer the phone.

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll talk to him.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll add to that if you have to go over there.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think I should go with you.

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know that's kind of a thing because we don't want to bring Piper in the middle of a bad situation.

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think at this point, like my whole perspective is very simply, you know, again, way I was raised as as toxic masculinity as it sounds in 2024.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I really don't care.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But like the husband is the hammer of the family.

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_01]: The wife is the heart.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is certainly the way you and I work in the fact that like you're much more approachable, you're much kinder, much gentler than I am.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_01]: But every now and then you need to bring the hammer out so that people understand you can't play games with the Radley family.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Bad things start happening.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And unfortunately, I think, you know, I wish we were in a situation where we didn't feel like you had to use the hammer against certain people.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But we are.

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And the hammer needs to be brought out.

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm I never thought that I would find so much release by releasing you.

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I like taking you off your leash.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I've always been scared of it.

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I know because I know who you are and I know how you are.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've always been scared that my husband is going to say or do something that's going to make waves, hurt feelings, whatever.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But now I'm at the point where I'm just like, well, I guess that needs to happen.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So in my way of thinking it is, well, you've kind of done this to yourself.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's not just make waves with certain people, our mom and dad.

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's with the family, I think.

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we said that, you know, about the wedding.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, who am I going to offend or hurt if something doesn't go their way?

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, but who cares?

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I know.

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I still live.

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I still breathe every day.

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I come home to a house that we have worked so hard for that nobody helps us with.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_02]: This is my piece, my home.

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And if it offends you or hurts your feelings, oh well.

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_03]: That's where that's where I'm trying to get.

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think I'm closer today than I was a week ago.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And hopefully in a week, I'll be even more close to that goal of being being like Phoebe.

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that needs to be assured.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Be like Phoebe.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I won't.

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry.

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I won't do that.

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm working on her, Phoebe.

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to bring her to the dark side.

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, look, like I said, sometimes I still have that.

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Am I doing the right thing?

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, will they get their feelings hurt?

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I am a human and that's what we're we are.

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_02]: We're emotional creatures.

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But there has to be a point where I say, am I OK?

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Am I going to be OK with this?

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That's that's what I'm dealing with.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm trying to focus more on.

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've done a good job this year learning that.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that this I think that this has come at a good time in my spiritual journey of of focusing more on myself.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, back to that whole developing healthy relationships,

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_03]: releasing Phil from his leash has made me stronger because now I, you know, it's like light bulb moment.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I have someone to rely on who has been begging me to do this for 20 years.

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But I have been saying no, no, I'll handle this.

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll handle it.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll do it.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll do it myself.

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, it's it's like any other hard situation that you have to go through.

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But you have a spouse or you have a significant other that's supposed to be there to help you.

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I now have that comfort in knowing that I have someone else to fall back on or someone else to take the reins and say, we're not doing this.

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Let me tell you why.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Because that's what he did.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_03]: He he made a phone call on Friday and he said that the rabble's will no longer be a part of this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, basically put his foot down for the family, which that that was just volumes.

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It spoke volumes and it made me feel better.

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I know we're kind of running low on time being kind to themselves, which is, I think, also practicing self care and then therapy.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_03]: This is this is Gillian's therapy hour.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Gillian's therapy hour there.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_03]: We are not professional mental health care workers or anything like that.

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_03]: We do not we, you know, whatever disclaimer needs to be put out there.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But but we do speak from experience and we can speak.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why I wanted to have you on to today.

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Phoebe was our our experiences in life growing up were two totally different things.

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_03]: We grew up in the same same household.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_03]: My mother used to ask me and I don't know if you know this, my mother used to ask me, which was wrong of her.

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_03]: She should never have asked me this or brought me into this this type of conversation was why did Phoebe end up like that?

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_03]: What what why did why is she like this?

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Why is she like that?

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know that.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, wait, you're probably going to be mad at me at my response.

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_03]: The peacemaker in me was going, I don't know, Mom, I don't know why Phoebe acts the way that she does because she was raised by the same parents that I was and raised in the same household that I was.

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, yeah, I was a teenager.

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Our in our in college.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_03]: So I was young and thought I thought because we were raised by the same parents and in the same household, you should have been we should have all kind of come out the same.

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Right now, no, but you all raise completely differently.

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, not even that we weren't we were raised completely differently.

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_03]: We were raised by different people.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Mom and Dad showed up for you in a different way that they showed up for me.

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_03]: They still do.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, just so crazy.

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_03]: That's yes.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And yes, so they still do.

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't even just mean that you got a younger version of our parents.

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_03]: You got you were the first.

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So you got first time parents.

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_03]: You've got the ones trying to figure out how to parent.

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_03]: You got most of the fallout from their trauma growing up that they went through.

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_03]: They were also they also went through some pretty harsh things as kids.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And then.

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Gabri got met with different parents than I got met with.

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And what I think happens is with with parents now, I only have one child, so I don't I really can't test this theory is.

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Parents are going to look at their children.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_03]: They're going to figure out what their strengths and weaknesses are and then meet them there.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And then if you have abusive parents, they're going to look at those strengths and weaknesses and.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Use them in a way that benefits them, not necessarily benefits the child, but benefits them.

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And so my answer to her now would be the reason she showed the reason she is the way she is at this point, not right now.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, at that question.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Is because of you and dad, it's because of the way that you met her.

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_03]: It's because of the things that she went through as a child.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That is why she is the way she is.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And I, you know, I didn't know what I didn't know.

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_03]: But now I know how to answer those questions.

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just think it's important to remember, you know, especially as adults.

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_03]: People show up differently for other for everyone.

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I show up differently for for you than I show up for Gabri.

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I show up differently for.

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't. That's the only ceiling.

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I know. Right. Yeah, I see with a lot too.

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. And I show up differently for Bailey than I show up for anybody.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I show up differently for anybody.

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's not to say that that's that's me being fake.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not being fake.

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm being myself for all of those people.

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm oh gosh, I'm going down a rabbit hole in my head.

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't have time to do the rabbit hole.

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: People have to be have to be approached differently because you don't know.

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We're not the same.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: The way you would say something to feel would be different than what you came to me with.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And like you said, it's not being a different person.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just other people or you need to approach them differently.

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But what we get from our parents are totally different people.

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's just it's not about approaching somebody.

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: There's still the manipulating narcissistic ways.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just differently for you know, it's like I get drunk text.

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You get happy days, you know.

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. What I told Gillian was like from my perspective, what what the three of you girls get is you get the version of themselves they think is going to get them the end result they want.

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is a totally it's a totally different mechanism than I'm meeting a person where they are because I'm trying to communicate with them in an even way.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm trying to meet a person where they are.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_01]: But this is if I show you this, I'll get this.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's like that kind of manipulation has from my perspective been a cornerstone of y'all's relationship with your parents.

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Isn't that crazy?

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, seen it for 20 seen it been seeing it for 19 years.

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Been saying it for 19 years.

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know what I love?

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I love our parents because it the love that we were shown was not love in our childhood.

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We had to decipher what true love is from every aspect when it comes to a spouse, a child, a person.

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we we were shown that hitting, yelling, screaming toxicity was love.

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And we had to all three decipher that that's not love.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, in fact, on another podcast, he said you shouldn't even hit your spouse out of, you know, just joking around.

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've taken that because, you know, my I would be like hitting Andrew just out of joking around.

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But that shows that it's OK to put your hands on somebody and it's it's not OK.

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not OK to joke around like that.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And he always if I do it, he'll say I'm calling your sister and telling her you hit me.

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_03]: He needs to call me because I will I will be over there in two and a half hours.

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, it just it to happen.

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But I just, you know, like you said, we're not professionals.

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We do have experience.

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, everybody's experience with the toxic people are going to be different.

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_02]: How we deal with it now is totally different than we've dealt with it a year ago.

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a year ago, I think I still would have been running going, let's make sure they're OK.

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go buy them an air conditioner and spend two hundred dollars that we don't have or let's do this or let's do that.

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_02]: But I've learned through addiction and recovery that there has to be consequences for things that you do.

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And whether it's physical, emotional, whatever, you have to set boundaries because I'm trying to stay healthy and sober.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And I could be caught on a bad day where I'm like, forget it all.

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And this, you know, this life that I have is not around.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you can hear that.

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll beat your ass.

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, but you know, I have to mark this whole podcast explicit.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, babe.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, it's good to only I only have a few people in my life that I come to things with you and Phil, my boss and Jennifer and Valerie.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's not because I don't want to have other friends.

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just because I know those people will tell me the truth, even if I don't want to hear what the truth is.

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You know.

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't know if we talked too much about trauma bonding.

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: We at least did some therapy.

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go write my diary.

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I know, right?

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to keep you too much longer because all of your grandbabies are coming over and I'm super, super jealous of you right now that you get to hang out with them.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, who knows if this will continue?

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Who knows what the week will bring and what Sunday's podcast will be.

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But I do always want to thank you for joining me and Phil on the podcast.

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_03]: These are not easy things to talk about.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And and the little twinge of guilt is always sitting in the pit of my stomach when we talk about our parents, especially when we mentioned them, because for so long I didn't.

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I would always address them as people in our lives.

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_03]: There's some people in our lives that do this or that and wanted to hide their hide who they were and the things that they did.

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_03]: But it wasn't it never brought a sincere show.

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It never brought a sincere discussion.

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've realized thanks to patrons and people, listeners that reach out to me, which I encourage because I am human.

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And even though we do these podcasts and a lot of times we sound like we know what the hell we're saying, I still I still encourage you to reach out and say, you know, give me that that.

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, I got something from it today.

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_03]: That's all you know.

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's not me looking for a pat on the back and saying, oh, you're doing such a good job.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Way to go.

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_03]: It's it's really just me wanting to know that I'm helping someone when I started this podcast.

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to help people.

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And so, yeah.

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, and let them know that they're not the only ones because for a long time you feel that way.

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and that's what I said earlier was that, you know, opening up about these things, opening up about our past traumas have had I've had people text me or message me and say really good show.

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_03]: By the way, I went with that.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I went through that too.

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is helping me.

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, that's that's helpful for me to know that we're helping other people.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you for being on.

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you to our listeners.

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Also, the ones that kept commenting.

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_03]: We didn't even get to the comments today and I'm so sorry for that.

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But Valerie and Jennifer, thank you for always supporting us as friends.

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, they're in here.

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't see who's in here.

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you can't you can't see the comments.

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But Jennifer and Valerie have been messaging, you know, in the comments for a while.

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: If you check this on Facebook, you'll see all their comments.

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they were commenting on on Facebook.

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So we love you all too.

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you for listening.

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And Stuart, Stuart, I'm going to say this out loud and hope you're still listening.

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_03]: The man who sells boiled peanuts is back and I'm going to go buy you some boiled peanuts and I'm going to ship them to you.

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And I promise I will do that this week.

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, anyway, thank you all for joining us.

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Phoebe, thank you for joining us.

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Enjoy your grandbabies today.

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And I hope that you all have a great rest of your week and great rest of your Sunday.

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to go grocery shopping now and get some food.

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you all for listening.

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you all next week.

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Bye, y'all.

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Bye, everybody.