Raising Values: When Parents Quit

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Raising Values Podcast where the traditional family talks. You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher and Spotify and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram. You can support the Raising Values podcast through Patreon.

[00:00:15] The Linguillian are behind the mic and we hope you enjoy the show. Welcome back to Raising Values. Good morning everybody. It's been a very intense last couple of days as in the Rablé house. Yeah, our cat's been sick. I've mopped the house no less than 10 times.

[00:00:45] At least four or five times a day. Yeah, at least. She's always been prone to UTIs and so she got one and of course she's 14 so it's taking her a little bit longer to get over this one. So needless to say it's been fun at our house lately.

[00:01:04] Yeah. This one. This one's just prancing around the house. In pajamas. A couple of things before we get started on today's episode. We are in the process of revamping our merch so what is available to you right now, merch-wise is different things that have our logos on it.

[00:01:29] I've been saying for quite some time that people don't want to wear logos. They just don't want to wear a logo. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know but that's what I've been saying. So we're in the process of revamping a few things.

[00:01:43] Raising values will have some fun new shirts. I'm really excited about, I designed them. I designed them, not them. And it really has nothing, I mean our logo is in there. Actually the name of the podcast is on there but it's not prominent or anything like that.

[00:02:03] So as soon as those are ready I'm going to post about those and let you know but for now we do have merch if you wanted to support the show and support one of our patrons and his wife who actually are our merch suppliers, Tiffany and Chris.

[00:02:23] So we have koozies, there's all kinds of shirts. Like I said, I know that logos are just kind of like, mwah mwah. But we did do the one, if you are a long time listener of the show, we talked about glitter and duct tape.

[00:02:39] And so this is the glitter and duct tape logo. Anyway, t-shirts, all sorts of things. There's really a lot of stuff to choose from and Tiffany and Chris have done a really good job of taking what we've designed or thought of and adding it all together

[00:02:56] and putting it on their website for you to purchase. But like I said, there will be some new stuff coming and it will be before Prepper Camp and I will be sporting these shirts at Prepper Camp. And stickers, I'm hoping to get stickers. Now stickers are expensive.

[00:03:12] Yes, everything's expensive. 50 stickers is like 80 bucks. So we'll say the one thing I'm happy about with Southern Gals is that like I intoned to them because it wasn't just it was raising values in a matter of fact because these two podcasts are very intermingled, probably as reasons.

[00:03:33] Like when we were approached by the Southern Gals about them taking over our merch, the one thing I expressed to them I was really, really focused on was I don't want this to feel like an $8 shirt with $20 worth of markup.

[00:03:47] Like you know, I want to make sure that it's a good feeling shirt, it's quality, the screen printing is done right. Like to me the I always kind of knew I was going to lean on you and Andrew for the design work because I'm not an artist.

[00:04:00] I'm a business guy. So like I struggle with coming up with a good idea and then getting it down on paper when it's graphic. Yeah. But that was kind of my impression from looking at other merch lines is I'm like, you know,

[00:04:12] if it's you could really enjoy the creator but if the shirt feels really cheap, it just kind of lets the whole experience down. Yeah. And these are not like cheap feeling shirts at all.

[00:04:23] Like I said, Chris and Tiffany do a really excellent job with their business and what they do. But anyway, so that's there. There's more coming. I am trying to get Andrew and Phil to give me some ideas on matter of facts new merch

[00:04:40] because again, they have some mostly just logo stuff. So that's that's its own that's its own. Yeah, I mean that that's assignment. That's on me. I've got to figure out how to put my thoughts into words. Yeah, which you usually have no problem with.

[00:05:00] But it's not around graphic design, which is not exactly a strong point of mind. Well, the other thing I wanted to mention was we won't be on next Sunday. No, we will be my butt will be on a beach.

[00:05:15] We will be on a very overdue, very long overdue family vacation because we didn't vacation really, I would say any last year. I mean, we went, we did the patron trip and we did. I did prepper camp.

[00:05:29] You and Piper didn't come and we were we were at a point where, you know, like a lot of people wouldn't say we were struggling with finances, but I was very focused on like we need to get our emergency fund built up.

[00:05:39] We need to get some things put away because things are going to get spicy in the next year or two. And anybody that's watching these in the last 12 hours, you know, don't call me Nostradamus. I just kind of saw things coming.

[00:05:52] So yeah, we really won't go into what happened in the last two about. No, everybody else is talking about it and I'm already exhausted over it. I'm not exhausted. I wanted to I want to see how this plays out. There's a couple of ways.

[00:06:05] Well, now we're talking about it. There's a couple of ways I think this could play out and I'm interested to see which one they take. So anyway, I saw that there were some comments. I didn't see what they were.

[00:06:14] You kind of turn it like you opened it and then. Oh, it's just good mornings. Hi, good morning. All right. So Phil picked this. I would argue you pick this by accident because we were OK, so last show, even though I'm pretty sure everybody is listening

[00:06:32] right now probably caught last show or caught it live. We were talking about forms of abuse. Yeah. And we tripped over or actually we talked about neglect and that was mostly centered around like spouse to spouse, one spouse not meeting no one's needs.

[00:06:47] One spouse intentionally withholding from another for various, you know, for either to manipulate or to get even or whatever. And I believe that neglect is a form of abuse, but I called it negative abuse because it's like in my mind there's positive actions and negative

[00:07:04] actions in the terms of like output. So if verbal abuse is a positive abuse, because you are outwardly abusing someone, then neglect is negative abuse because I'm not I'm not outwardly abusing you, but I'm with whole I'm pulling something back and that is the abuse of action.

[00:07:21] But it kind of got us thinking and talking about has this, you know, I don't remember if it was during the show or afterwards you and I started talking about neglect from parent to child and how like in some ways that I feel like it's in some ways

[00:07:39] it's different than spouse to spouse, but I don't feel like it's any less damaging. But I do I do see it as slightly different because you do get like in many in a lot of the same ways when we talk about neglect

[00:07:51] between spouse and spouse, you know, some people inevitably throw up the idea that like, well, you can't pour from an empty cup. And I acknowledge you can't pour from an empty cup.

[00:08:01] But if the cup is always empty, there's a problem, then you can't use it as the excuse. And that's where I started going thinking about you know, when parents quit, there is the argument that sometimes parents get overwhelmed, parents need a break.

[00:08:18] But then to the opposite argument, kind of my argument is you never stop being a parent, like if the cut if the if the cup is empty, then you as the parent are the one that goes without not the child.

[00:08:30] You as the parent goes without not the child. Yeah, another one. OK, my brain's not catching up to that. Well, OK, from my perspective and my perspective is just mine. But I look at it.

[00:08:42] I you and I have talked before on this show and in private about how like I see fatherhood, husbandhood as a position of responsibility. Like the cat is very upset right now because Piper's door shut. And she was only just allowed to go back in there this morning.

[00:09:01] Should be OK. Yeah. But I see those as positions of responsibility, like I have a responsibility to to the best of my ability, meet the needs of everyone in this household. And if that means that, you know, there's not enough time left

[00:09:15] in the day for a dad to have dad time, then that that's that's what gets sacrificed because my wife needs things. My daughter needs me. And if somebody has to do without, I'm going to be the one that does without.

[00:09:27] This is where we've kind of disagreed in the past and then we've talked about this on other episodes of you again, you can't pour from an empty cup. So you have to fill your cup and you have to be able to you have

[00:09:39] to be able to do that. And then so what this is, this is where it kind of gets fuzzy between the two of us. Parents need a break. Yes. But parenting, that's what the banner says. Parents need a break. But does parenting ever stop?

[00:09:53] No, parenting should never stop. You you're going to be a parent no matter what. I think it obviously it changes as the child or children grow up, especially once they become an adult. And I can go into something in my thinking of something

[00:10:11] kind of an extension from last week's episode. But I often need breaks. I teach 170, 180 kids every day. Well, I'm with 180 kids every day. I am constantly being hugged on, tugged on, you know, snot it on sometimes peed on. You know, I'm constantly in a place where I am.

[00:10:37] My sensory is overloaded with children, with people, with things, with all of the things. You know, my my schedule is always packed. I do get breaks, obviously, because I have a great principle. But there are times when I come home where I'm just like, don't touch me.

[00:10:59] I need to just like, don't look in my direction. Don't talk to me. Don't do anything. I need to just veg for 30 minutes. So I need to veg for an hour or whatever. And it used to be really bad when I worked in New Orleans

[00:11:11] because that was as as fun as it is to work in a place like an aquarium, a zoo or an insectarium. It's it was a lot. I mean, we would have thousands of people come through on a daily basis. And I was in a position at those places

[00:11:32] where I was constantly doing shows, talking to people, educating people, whatever. And then I had to drive an hour, 45 minutes to an hour home with everyone else who lived on the North Shore that commuted to New Orleans. And that was when I just, I would come home.

[00:11:52] You know, you knew, Gillian's going to come home. She's going to come through the door and she just needs she just needs her own time, whatever. So I don't I don't ever want to put parents needing a break in a bad light because they are still human.

[00:12:09] And even though they have responsibilities to their kids and family, they still have to recharge in order to give their kids and families what they need from them. So you're agreeing with me? I don't disagree with you that parents need a chance to recharge.

[00:12:28] What I'm what I'm arguing is something that you've not done in the past where where you and I have said, like, the same thing can be said, but mean two totally different things. And I've heard I need a break used as a constant excuse for neglecting a child.

[00:12:44] Yes. So that's that's why. OK, so yours is more of the extreme need to break quote unquote need to break. Well, I'll put you this way, if you if every time your kids around you, you need a break,

[00:12:53] you don't need a break, you need to shut up and stand up and be a mom or be a dad. If if having a child stresses you out, you chose the wrong vocation, and parenting is supposed to be a choice, you know? And if it was if so,

[00:13:07] I think any vocation you choose is going to be stressful. 100 percent. Look, anybody that says having children, raising children is not stressful. I've got beach from property Arizona to sell you because you are you are not in touch with reality. It is a stress sandwich.

[00:13:24] But I also say that, you know, sometimes being married is stressful. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I love being married and I love having a family. But it's stress. It's not always easy. It's not always rainbows and unicorn farts. Sometimes it's hard and you got to

[00:13:42] you have to wade through the hard to get to the part that makes it rewarding. But I guess from my perspective is like, I hear this, I need a break. And I'm like, every time your kids around you, you need a break. You don't need a break.

[00:13:53] You need you need to shut up, push phone down, turn the TV off, go play with your kid and look at parenting as a responsibility, not as a not as a chore. You know what I'm saying? I think that there's a certain amount of this

[00:14:09] that really does become mental emotional. And I'm notorious for telling people like most things in life, you make them a negative or positive based on how you you are your own head. You know, like I can I can distinctly remember this.

[00:14:24] And I mean, I've had a lot of my form of years were very odd because of the military. But like I can remember. Huh? Nothing. Go ahead. I can look back on some of my experiences in the military

[00:14:36] and in the moment I thought to myself like this is awful. This is the worst thing I've ever done. This is horrible. Like there's something happens to your brain when you've been awake for 20 hours. Tell them how to. But now I look back on those experiences

[00:14:51] and I'm like, you know what that was in training. And those men who were I thought were just like the most wretched human beings on the face of the earth. They were preparing me for something much worse than basic training.

[00:15:03] And it worked because when I got into combat, I wasn't, you know, crawled in the fetal position, peed in my pants. When I left the military and I had stayed up for 20 hours, taking care of a newborn. I just accepted that as, hey, I've been here before.

[00:15:17] I've stayed up for 20, 22 hours straight before like it's going to be OK. I'm going to take I'm going to get through this. So I guess what I'm saying is like, I think when people approach parenting as this child just won't shove and leave me alone,

[00:15:29] then that becomes your perspective, as opposed to the way I approach parenting, which is I have this tiny little human who is like she's everything about you and me. That's awesome without the years of the world drag at her down yet.

[00:15:45] Like we get it's kind of like when you and I used to talk about you had mentioned like her growing up was like sad to you because eventually she was going to leave. And I'm like, but we get sad. But from my perspective,

[00:15:58] we get to re experience childhood with her a second time. So it's again, it's do you take things as a negative or positive? Do you look I had to say, you know, the glass is half full.

[00:16:10] But like I choose to try to look at the world around me as the glass is half full because that's better for my mental health than to say the sky is always falling. But I look at parenting the same way. I see parents who, you know, they go,

[00:16:23] they spend eight, nine, 10 hours of work, they come home and then instead of I need a half an hour with nobody pulling on my shirt. I need a break. I need to recharge. It's social media, it's Netflix.

[00:16:34] It's taking the kids out to eat because they don't want to cook. It's all these decisions they're making when they when they have had an opportunity to recharge to still prioritize themselves over their children. And I understand when you're overloaded, you're at your wits end,

[00:16:49] you have to prioritize yourself for a time. But I can't get on board with the idea of parents always picking themselves over their children. That's what I meant by if the cup is truly empty, you can't pour from an empty cup.

[00:17:02] But if there's that much left in that cup to me, it goes to my kid or goes to my wife. It doesn't go to me. If there's that much left, I pour it for my family because that's my responsibility. Now, when there's that much left, I'm sorry, guys,

[00:17:16] I need a half an hour in the back porch with a cigar and a glass of bourbon to just call my nurse. You know, like to me, there's a balance there. I just see a lot of parents that they pick. The balance they pick is always

[00:17:28] if my battery is not 100 percent, I have nothing left to give to you. But your battery is never going to be 100 percent because there's always something in the world pulling on it. No, I get that. I think we agree on that.

[00:17:41] But we had to have a 15 minute conversation to realize. Well, and this is the second time we've had this conversation too. Oh, we know we look we I'm pretty sure if by the way, I think this is our fifty third episode of this show.

[00:17:53] Oh, it hasn't been exactly. I'd have to look back at the show notes. It hasn't been exactly a year because we missed a couple of weeks, but like well, a year worth of yes, we started in March. Yeah. So we take a lot of time off.

[00:18:08] But I'm pretty sure 50 episodes ago, we started the show off by saying we're not. We don't agree about everything. We don't have the same perspective. I mean, yeah, the old adage of oxygen. We say that all the time still to to remind ourselves

[00:18:24] to remind people who listen that we're not experts in this and that we are not perfect. And we don't agree on everything. And sometimes most of the time I see that as a strength because we do see things differently. Yeah. So how does how does neglect affect children?

[00:18:44] Because I that's the banner. Yes, that's the banner. Thank you. We're still trying to train him. I'm working on it. It's a work in progress. How does neglect? How does neglect affect children? And I as I queue this up,

[00:18:58] I imagine that there's going to be aspects of this this part of the conversation that is going to be driven off of like your personal experience and my second hand experience because, you know, not to toot my parents horn. I had pretty pretty awesome parents,

[00:19:13] but I had friends who were latchkey kids, you know, who were left at home to their own devices. And I saw the thing, the trouble they got into because of a lack of oversight and a lack of boundaries. So like it's one of those situations where, like,

[00:19:29] as I was growing up, I was able to very, very directly one to one compare my upbringing, the household I lived in, the family I grew up in and people I knew and draw some clear comparisons to say, this this is the way I was done.

[00:19:45] This is the way they were done. These are the outcomes that came from those and it directly it directly influenced like the way I chose to parent about, you know, very basic concepts like how critical it was to have discipline and to have boundaries

[00:19:59] and to have rules in a household because I make that comparison to when you become an adult, there's rules in the world. And a lot of those rules I don't necessarily agree with, but I still have to abide by a certain number of them

[00:20:12] because if I get caught not doing so, bad things start to happen. See, and I somewhat was a latchkey kid. We lived with my, when my sister, well actually no, she only went to that school for a little while. Anyway, the school that I graduated high school from

[00:20:28] was three blocks from our house. My dad, I don't remember a time when my mom didn't work. I wanna say she always had some kind of job. I can't remember when we lived in South Louisiana versus North Louisiana really, but I remember she worked at a bank

[00:20:47] in florist and she did all sorts of things. I mean, my mom is really talented. She did a lot of things and had a lot of experiences. My dad worked almost every job he worked at was at least an hour away, an hour's drive away.

[00:21:08] And he was the environmental engineer for a lot of different chemical plants in North Louisiana. And a lot of times he was in Chicago or DC or whatever. He did a lot of policy, he wrote a lot of policies and things like that for the state of Louisiana.

[00:21:26] So he's in, I mean, Baton Rouge a lot, things like that. My dad was gone a lot. And we've said this before. He's 72 as of three days from now. He'll be 72 years old. And there's been so many times when I've gone to their house

[00:21:46] where he's apologized for being gone so much. And he does feel like some of the directions that our family took was because of the neglect that he showed, and I say neglect and I kind of use that kind of loosely because my dad was also in that position

[00:22:07] where he knew he needed to provide for his family. So maybe not neglect, but in his case just his lack of presence. Which was career-based. It was a career-based lack of presence because my dad was also the one who on Saturdays

[00:22:26] when he was home, he would go work in the garden. And so I would go out and join him in the garden. And my dad, he's brilliant. He's literally one of the smartest people I know. Not common sense-wise, but book-wise. Which tends to happen, doesn't it?

[00:22:45] I mean, there is a correlation there. Yeah, there is. A married one. But anyway, those times in the garden were really interesting because he would always tell me about the herbs that he was growing and what they would be used for in cooking

[00:23:02] and what they could do medicinally and things like that. And I think that's where I got a lot of my passion for herbalism and things like that. But anyway, I guess what I'm trying to get at is I kind of was a latchkey kid.

[00:23:20] And again, my household was not perfect. There were a lot of times where I did not wanna be there. And I think a lot of that does boil down to neglect. There were times when my parents stopped parenting.

[00:23:42] They needed a break or they needed this or they needed that. There was a lot of control issues there too. Anyway, but in the same sentence of my dad apologizing for not being there so much, when me and me asking, well would you have changed anything?

[00:23:59] And he says no. It's kind of like I don't get the apology then. But let me keep going because, wait go to the banners cause I don't wanna jump ahead. How does neglect affect children? Neglect is damaging as abuse, which is child need.

[00:24:19] Okay, so this is where I can talk about it. All right, so the neglect, what sparked today's episode was when I was talking about how when my older sister and my twin sister came home pregnant and their whole lives changed

[00:24:35] and the things that were happening with their lives. That was when the abuse really started ramping up. I'll say that, it was always bad, but anyway. And then there's Gillian who's still in high school and they're, you know, I'm now,

[00:24:51] I mean it was almost like I didn't exist. I would, you know, I was home or I was with my friend and we were doing things that I think most 16 and 17 year old kids do. And then I was dating someone that I,

[00:25:10] my dad should have had a lot of problems with and he didn't but my mom encouraged, which was weird. I felt like I didn't exist. I felt like I can go do this cause they're never gonna know, they're never gonna find out

[00:25:29] and I can go spend the night at my friend's house. And there were air quotes for the audio listeners. I can go spend the night at my friend's house and they're gonna think I'm at my friend's house because they just don't care.

[00:25:42] Like they're dealing with Phoebe and Gabriel and that's really how I lived my life when I was 17 and 18. And anyway, so, and then I actually did move out. I moved out and moved five hours away, which was really no different because I didn't have the,

[00:26:03] I didn't have the, what's the, not chaperone. What do you mean? Oversight, I guess of my parents already. So moving five hours away to go to college was no different. I mean, honestly, the fact that you move that close to your grandparents probably meant

[00:26:19] that you had a little bit more oversight because you were living, well, but you were living in it. The town that we went to college in, your grandparents knew everybody. So there was a certain amount of effing around

[00:26:30] you couldn't do in town because it would have got back. But I didn't know anybody either. So it wasn't like I was, I don't know, yeah. But anyway, I did move home basically. I moved home because I was born in Hammond

[00:26:44] and grew up there until I was five, which isn't a long time, but I considered that going home. But where the neglect continued is where, this is the thing that I'm trying to get at. When we got engaged, a lot of women

[00:27:03] who are getting married go through this whole process, these traditions, and they use their parents as part of this in these traditions. And for instance, what's the one I'm getting at is going dress shopping. For me, this was my first marriage. Only marriage. And only marriage.

[00:27:25] But I mean, I had been dreaming of this day since I was little and I wanted the dress, I wanted everything, I wanted all of it. And I went by myself and I paid by myself and there was no tradition in it. My mom wasn't there.

[00:27:44] I asked her to come, she wouldn't come. And I knew that not coming meant not paying also. And then there were just some little things in and out throughout our process where I just had to do things by myself because my parents hadn't been there since I was 16.

[00:28:05] Why would they come when I'm 22? Wait, no, 23 or no, 24. Anyway, why would they be there? So that neglect actually, I felt neglected. I did, I felt like this is a time when my mom should be here, my dad should be a part of this.

[00:28:25] And he was a part of it when you asked him for his permission to marry me. He almost killed me. Not on purpose. No, he literally 15 seconds after I asked if I could marry his daughter, he almost got into a car accident. It was...

[00:28:39] He didn't try to kill him. I don't know how we managed to get married. I mean like all the signs were there, like run, run far away. Well, I told you that first time you met my entire family that Christmas,

[00:28:51] I said, it's okay if you never want to see me again. You know, I look back on that situation though and like I remember as soon as the first thing got thrown and the people started screaming, I just quiet as church mouse, got up out of my chair,

[00:29:06] walked to the bedroom, shut the door and opened up a book and went into my happy place. And you found me there 15 minutes later and we're like, are you okay? And I'm like, yeah, I'm good. Like, you know, getting, getting murdered in Iraq for a year

[00:29:18] was great preparation for this. Yeah, he had just come home for my rack. I mean, well, not just that. I had just come back from Iraq and I had just come off of a four month poem for Hurricane Katrina to New Orleans.

[00:29:31] I was ready to join this family. Oh, Lord have mercy. Anyway, obviously the neglect has stayed with me. Obviously it has caused some sort of trauma. So yeah, does neglect affect your children? Absolutely it affects your children. It's a lack of love. It's a lack of attention

[00:29:55] and it makes the child wonder what's wrong with them that my parents don't want to do this with me or for me or help me or be there with me or whatever. What, what's wrong with me? What did I do? Yeah, and I see Joe's comment

[00:30:08] that sometimes medical can make the child stronger more independent capable. I think there's a difference though between neglect and like sometimes what I do with Piper where I'm like, I know what you're about to do is about to hurt you

[00:30:21] and I'm gonna let it hurt a little bit so that you'll learn from that. But the decision to let you learn the hard way is still one I'm making not her because at any point in time I can step in if I see things get too serious

[00:30:34] but like I'm allowing you, I'm gonna use the analogy from her childhood where she was a literal, like a little bitty baby and she wanted a lemon. I think we were at a restaurant and we got sweet tea, we took the lemons out, put them on the table

[00:30:49] because we didn't like lemon or sweet tea and she was pointing at it and you and I exchanged a look and I just picked that lemon up and handed to her like she's about to learn from experience. She stuck it in her mouth and her entire face just...

[00:31:03] It was hilarious. But here, I guess here's what I'm saying let me get the rest of the thought out. The difference between neglect and letting a child like become a little bit more independent is, I let her have the lemon. I wouldn't have given her the butter knife.

[00:31:19] See, and as bad of a light that I paint my parents and like I said, I do love them. I think 75% of it was they were doing the best that they could do. I think 25 maybe even more than that was really bad choices and decisions

[00:31:38] that they made from getting married. I think getting married was one of the first bad choices that they made. Anyway, so it's sometimes, it's getting a little bit easier to talk about. I think it's still very hard to talk about all the things that I've been through.

[00:32:00] But one of the things that my mom would always say and it's a generational thing and I have said this before too and I, because I am a wooden spoon survivor, she'll only do it once. She'll only do it once. I can remember, I think it was Gabriel

[00:32:22] and the gas stove was on or whatever. She was little and she reached for the pot and I can't remember all the, I mean, she was little, we were little. And I remember my mom saying, she'll only do it once.

[00:32:38] And it was a, she'll only burn herself once. She'll only scrape her knees once and then she'll learn. She'll only do this once and she'll learn or whatever. And she said it's all of us but that wasn't just her, that was the thing.

[00:32:52] And I don't know, maybe people in the comments can back me up on that but I have heard so many people, well not so many. I've heard people in our generation say that to their children and I said it to you. I said she'll only do it once.

[00:33:07] If she likes the lemon, she'll eat the lemon. If she doesn't like the lemon, she'll only eat it one time. It's a good thing we didn't give her a handful of table salt at that point because we've seen how that worked out. That's me ask your dad.

[00:33:21] Your dad's always pick on it on me because of my salt intake. Anyway, so how does neglect affect children? Eddie could probably talk better about this than we can but as from personal experience, it creates holes and gaps and trauma.

[00:33:40] The neglect does just as much damage as abuse does. Well, and the two things that- Physical or emotional abuse because it is emotional abuse. The two things that I see coming from neglect is first of all, like I see how it impacts children's ability to develop attachments

[00:34:01] because that the most important attachment they should have up to a certain age is with their parent. I mean, their parent is much more than just person that feeds them and close them. Their parent is their teacher, their protector, their first source of affection. Their parent is everything

[00:34:20] and when that relationship is not built on solid foundation, I see that having drastic impacts into their ability to attach to boyfriend, girlfriend, spouses, friends. And again, that's derived from a lot of my own second hand experience watching friends and how I believe neglect impacted them

[00:34:43] and how neglect impacted their ability to form those emotional attachments later in life. And the other thing I see is, and do I wanna reorder these? Yeah. And the other thing I see is that, what neglect is from my perspective mostly, the banner, yeah, I know.

[00:35:02] The banner is why does a child need boundaries? And I see neglect as in a lot of ways, not just the emotional aspect of what you've talked about but the lack of boundaries, which is really what I saw in a lot of friends and-

[00:35:14] God, I see it now. Yeah. So understanding that, I mean, it's well known like I'm a military veteran. Discipline is a big part of my life. Discipline is in my opinion, like one of the most important things we learn as adults.

[00:35:31] I mean, I tell my daughter all the time, I'm like, you know, I can totally understand not wanting to do something but I don't wanna do it is not going to absolve you from it need to be done.

[00:35:42] And I'm trying to prepare her for a moment in time where she's going to have to choose. I don't feel like going to work today but I have to go to work. Because if I don't go to work,

[00:35:51] I don't get paid and then bad things start to happen as a result of that. I had a conversation with one of my employees when I was working at Flight Line. So I was working as a line manager. I have this huge gaggle,

[00:36:03] mostly college kids that are working for me even though I was in college too but this was post-employment everything. So I was several years older than they were and I got my butt reamed out one time by the general manager in front of one of my employees

[00:36:18] which I took up with him later. But the thing I was being reamed out for wasn't anything I did, it wasn't my responsibility. Like he was just mad that it happened and I was the person that caught hell for it.

[00:36:32] And I sat there and said, yes sir, yes sir, understand. Completely understand, won't happen again, I'll get it taken care of. Now I just let him yell until he was over it and then he turned around and walked off. And my employee looked at me and said,

[00:36:45] why do you take that off of him? I looked at him like, what happens if you mouth off to him and get fired? He said, well I have to go find her job and I'm like, what happens to your bills in the meantime?

[00:36:54] Like you have car insurance and a cell phone and college tuition, what happens all day? He said, well, live with mom and dad and they would take care of me until I got in her job. And I'm like, okay, if I lose my job

[00:37:03] I have to go home and tell my wife we can't pay rent. That's the difference between you and me in the position of our lives we're in today. I have responsibilities that do not allow me to make certain decisions. I have a responsibility to my spouse

[00:37:20] to hold up my end of this. So the thing I always tell my daughter is, I'm like, you're gonna have decisions to make one day and you're gonna have consequences based on that decision. So I'm installing boundaries today to try to guide you in the right direction tomorrow.

[00:37:35] But when you take those guardrails off at too young of an age, there's all sorts of problems that can develop. Probably the, I mean, let's start with the fact that children that don't have appropriate supervision, the risk of teen pregnancy goes through the ceiling.

[00:37:54] The risk of drug addiction goes through the ceiling. The risk of petty crime that escalates into serious criminal offenses goes through the ceiling. I mean, this shouldn't be a controversial thing to say that children need boundaries. They need supervision. Yeah, but yes they do. I agree with that.

[00:38:10] Children do need boundaries. In fact, our child is an example of a child that without boundaries, she gets anxious without having routine. Routine? Well not even, not just routine. I'm not really talking about routine but she is a rule follower. She will tell her what the rules are,

[00:38:31] don't sway from those rules. She will call you on it every time. And when there is chaos, when the rules aren't being followed or the rules don't exist, she goes into like extreme anxiety. That was one of the calls that I used to get from her teacher

[00:38:50] when she was in second grade, second grade, yeah. Got a call from her teacher about how she had gotten in an argument with one of her teachers on the playground because the rule was such and such for this game, this thing that was on the playground,

[00:39:06] kids could do this but they couldn't do this kind of thing and one of the boys was being allowed to do it by one of the teachers and the teacher was there watching and so she in second grade walked up to the teacher

[00:39:17] and said, but the rule is this. And the teacher told her to go play, leave it alone and go play. And she did not leave it alone to go play and she stopped there and she argued with that teacher about the rules.

[00:39:31] You said this, the rule is this, how come such and such, you know, Timmy, whatever is being allowed to do that? It was one of her words. I mean, obviously she's in second grade but I got a call from the teacher

[00:39:44] that said she was arguing with the teacher about this on the playground and blah, blah, blah, blah, and I said, well, what is the rule? And she said, the rule is this. I said, was Timmy breaking the rule? Well, yes, but a teacher was there observing

[00:39:59] and he was fine. I said, nope, that doesn't fly. The rule is this, you're holding the children to these rules. A second grader called you out on that rule being broken and the child who called you out is now the one in trouble

[00:40:16] and not the one who broke the rules. Do you see your father-in-law? Sounds like Bill. I'm telling you, she's gonna be a lawyer or something one day, maybe, I don't know. Might stress her out. Not if she has my personality. I thought about joining the legal profession

[00:40:31] and I said to hell with it. Anyway, she is a kid that thrives on boundaries. She thrives in a situation when she knows these are the rules, these are the things that I can and can't do. I mean, she will tell me.

[00:40:47] She tells me all the time, go into school. So obviously we live, there's this road that we take. It's one of the causeway approaches or whatever and you gotta go under the bridge to go up onto the bridge. And there's the yellow speed limit sign

[00:41:05] that says 20 miles per hour. Oh, for the turn? You gotta go up and turn kind of thing and she's always watching how fast I'm going and she goes, mom you're speeding and I was like, I'm not speeding, I'm good. It's not a speed limit sign.

[00:41:20] Like I'm trying to tell her, like I'm not breaking the law. It's the yellow sign that's the speed advisory, not the white sign, that speed limit. Right, right. Anyway, so she is one to point out, now she's in a place, she's in a school

[00:41:38] where she points out that something has happened or a rule is being broken or maybe even the teacher has skirted the rule or whatever. She will still call them out and say that's not what you said. What you said was this, you're doing this, that is wrong.

[00:41:55] Yeah, I mean, and I think with Piper, at least from my perspective, I think it's often it's less about the specific rule than the fact that there's not universal adherence to it. In other words, like if this is a rule that I have to follow,

[00:42:07] you better follow it too. Because if you don't have to follow it, I don't have to follow it either. And that is 110% fil rabble-y genetics like injected into that child. I apologize to everyone who is ever gonna encounter her in life. Why don't apologize for that?

[00:42:21] I'm being sarcastic. Okay. That is not something to apologize for. If you're the type of person that likes to like make rules for thee but not for me and you counter her, I don't apologize at all for what you're gonna encounter.

[00:42:33] Because I'm gonna say this not so loud so she didn't hear me. She won't always be liked for that quality. People want to be able to stretch the rules and bend the rules and do this and that. And because she is so vocal about

[00:42:49] you're doing the wrong thing, she will not be liked. Look at the girls in her class who she's constantly arguing with. And there's one in particular that that's her thing. She loves to bend the rules. She loves to skirt it. She loves to do all these things.

[00:43:08] And a lot of it is because of the neglect that she feels at home. So any attention is good attention. And so this child, that's what she does. She will make up stories. She lies. She does all these things.

[00:43:21] And Piper calls her out on it every single time. And therefore this girl does not like Piper. Because Piper is always quote unquote getting her in trouble. Well no sweetheart, you did the action. Piper just called you out on it.

[00:43:40] Dang I forgot where I was going with this. But going back to Nicolette, like you for better or worse see the effects of Nicolette daily because of your profession. I mean you're a school teacher. So you are surrounded by,

[00:43:57] I feel like my perspective on the outcome of Nicolette and probably children in general is skewed pretty heavily by the children I've had experience with and my own child. Whereas you see a huge cross section of children. And without calling out anyone child or anyone parent

[00:44:14] you see children that I know we've talked about like you just, you meet them and you're like this is a child that doesn't get enough attention at home. This is a child that they're an iPad kid. You know their parent drops them off and then eight hours later

[00:44:27] begrudgingly comes and gets them and then takes them home and sits in front of a TV or a live cat or nanny or an au pair come and get them. Yeah, but these are children who never have that opportunity to have an attachment with their parents

[00:44:40] because their parents don't want to be attached to them. Their parents seem to regard them as trophies or a medal or something cute. Something to brag about. Something cute to show off in front of their friends. Yeah, and there's another person I'm thinking of who really it's always,

[00:45:03] a lot of it has been always about her. And so, you know, she's more focused on things that she can brag about for herself. And her child does make it into the bragging part. I mean, I brag about my kid on social media all the time too

[00:45:23] but this child's behavior in class now, it shows that there is neglected home. That this child feels the pull between I have to go here this week and now I have to go here this week and my mom really doesn't want me here. She's always off doing this

[00:45:42] and I have to have a babysitter I'm going to my friend's house and my dad doesn't really want me here he's on a business trip or whatever. And I mean, there's so many of those kids, I say so many,

[00:45:54] there's a good handful of those kids at our school but they're all over, they're in all schools, they're everywhere of just constant shuffling. They don't feel wanted. And they don't, yeah, they don't feel wanted and so their behavior in class, we see their behavior because like I said,

[00:46:11] any attention is good attention. And I said they don't feel wanted, maybe the better term because it relates back to what I said initially is they don't feel prioritized. Yes, you're right. But a child is not going to say that. No, I'm speaking from a goal perspective.

[00:46:28] A child is going to go to the easiest my mom and dad don't want me. My mom and dad don't want to deal with me. And it's really sad to see, it's really, really sad to see. It's sad to see that there's so many children

[00:46:42] that are like that. Parents are so caught up in their lives and whether it's their business or their profession or their friends or whatever, social media, they're just so caught up in themselves that the child is neglected. I really do kind of view a lot of this

[00:47:03] under the guise of selfishness to be honest. Yeah, I mean that's what neglected, yeah. And see, it's moments like this, I pull back from wanting to make some generalizations because on the one hand, I feel like, now bear in mind that we're both millennials.

[00:47:23] In my case, barely millennial. I mean, you're a year and some months younger than I am, but we're both on the, we're both on the older- I'm not your age. No, we're both on the older end of being millennials. And I feel like in our generation,

[00:47:37] like this is almost epidemic, is that there's a ton of people our age who became parents and they grew up very self-centered and then they came into parenting, also very self-centered. They parent, they didn't become parents because they wanted to like pour their effort

[00:47:58] or their affection or whatever into this child. In a selfless way, they became parents selfishly. Like I want to be, I want a child. I want this cute little thing I can play dress up with and parade around in front of my friends

[00:48:11] and other words, like the act of becoming a parent was never about the child. It was about how the child made them feel. I don't know if I agree with you with, I don't know if I agree that it's a generational epidemic.

[00:48:24] I think neglect has always been a thing. So maybe it's just more visible now, in other words. Or maybe we just see it. How is it more visible? I mean, I feel like social media has... No, I don't think you can count social media

[00:48:43] because like we've said in previous shows and even our friend Kyle has said, social media is not a true representation of people. No, and I don't think so. I don't, not social media, but just media in general. I just feel like the free flow of information

[00:48:58] has become so much greater. Like perfect example is that is the incidences of like child abduction are not appreciably more common now than they were when we were kids. But when we were kids, it was barely talked about.

[00:49:16] It wasn't as known versus now with the 24 hour news cycle and the constant flow of media, you hear about it over and over and over and over whereas before because we were so much more disconnected you probably only hear about it happen in your community.

[00:49:32] So that I guess that's what I mean. You're right, not social media, but I feel like with media in general, we see child neglect so much more often than we did before. And maybe that's why from my perspective it feels like it's more common now,

[00:49:45] but it was probably always there. I mean, as you have slowly started to talk about your childhood, you've had people who come to you and said, I had no idea. It was like, well, of course not. That was covered up, it was hidden. That was the whole point.

[00:50:01] They didn't want everybody to know what was going on behind closed doors. Unbelievable. But I guess the way I look at this topic is just the fact that like, I'm gonna be the first to admit that I am extremely critical of parenting, of parents in general.

[00:50:19] And that's true, that's just because like, I see parenting as this enormous weight and responsibility. And it's one that I happily took on and I happily take on every day and I don't begrudge you or Piper or anybody around me for that responsibility.

[00:50:38] I took it on, I knew what it was gonna be. And I look at other parents and I get very frustrated when they neglect their kids or when they abuse their kids or just when they don't appreciate their kids.

[00:50:52] Like, I grew up in this is gonna be a little bit on the personal side for my father, but like, my mother, well, but my mother and father could not have children. They adopted, they adopted me and my brother.

[00:51:04] And my father used to tell me all the time when I was growing up how angry it made him when he would see other people not take care of their kids. Because he said, all I ever wanted was to be a father and these people have kids

[00:51:17] and they don't appreciate them. And I think back on that all the time. You can't cry. Why not? You were the emotional one two episodes ago. She can make me cry. I think it's true. I think, yeah. I think it is sad especially and we have friends

[00:51:37] who have adopted too. And I'm sure they have all felt the same way. So, you good? Yeah, I'm good. Okay. No, I'm just saying like to me it's this awesome way and responsibility but it's also this great adventure we get to go in with our kids.

[00:51:54] And so when I see other parents not prioritize their kids and not try to take care of them to the best of ability. And just that frustrates me to no end. I literally like if I had a hall pass for a day with no legal consequences,

[00:52:09] I would shh, there are a number of parents I walk their front door and just shake the crap out of them. Yeah. Maybe not like injure them but just good case to shake a baby syndrome like stop doing this and just treat your kids right for a change.

[00:52:25] Probably wouldn't do any good but it'd be really self gratifying. You probably wouldn't do any good, you're right. No. So we started this off by disagreeing pretty heavily and I feel like we came back around to about the same position. I don't know, no.

[00:52:42] I didn't, I don't think we disagreed on anything. I needed to explain my point of view and then we were actually in agreeance which actually happened on that episode where we talked about that of how parents need to take a break

[00:52:56] and we agreed then and so we agree now. I just wanted to make sure that the listeners and you remembered that little tidbit of information that I had left in there. It's okay for parents to take breaks but parenting doesn't stop. No, parenting doesn't stop

[00:53:15] and honestly like I don't know if this isn't really top to get into 55 minutes or 53 minutes into a show but like I don't think parenting stops even your kids are adults. Like I'm gonna be her dad for the rest of her life

[00:53:30] or the rest of my life at least and if she comes to me at eight years old, 18 years old or 38 years old and ask for advice, I'm going to give it and I'm always going to be wanting the best for her. So I see, I mean I see,

[00:53:48] I seem to go like mostly in terms of like where I'm at today with a 12 year old but I also see it in terms of like when she's older I'm never going to neglect her. Whatever it is that I feel like she needs

[00:54:02] at that time in her life. I think that like I said earlier in this episode, a parent's position in their child's life shifts as they grow up, as they get older. I know that, sorry I had a second conversation with myself

[00:54:26] and myself said no that's not true, don't say that. One of these days I'm gonna install a little Bluetooth device in her head so I can hear those conversations. I know that I can call on your parents if I need something. Whether it's advice or help with something

[00:54:44] or whatever, there's been so many times. When I have been driving home from anywhere really and I thought well maybe I'll just see if I can stop in at their house. Maybe I can just use the bathroom at their house or if I need to use the bathroom,

[00:55:02] I mean maybe if I'm just too tired to drive home we can spend the night at your parents' house or whatever and you're all like, we live 45 minutes from my parents for just going home. Maybe that's just my inner self going

[00:55:14] but I need to go to your parents' house. But I will say that at least from my parents' perspective and if I'm wrong they're welcome to correct me on this but I truly believe that they're, because again I remember the conversations

[00:55:28] I had with my dad and my dad was always very emphatic about the fact that like I will always be your father, I will always be here as long as I can be whatever you need I got you. But when you get married two things happen.

[00:55:42] Your wife becomes your family. She's your responsibility. She's the person you lean on. She's it, she is your other half but I don't break your plate at the dinner table when you get married I said another one and hopefully another one after that.

[00:55:58] So from my father's perspective the moment I got married you inherited two more parents whether you wanted them or not. Joe made, Joe put into words what I was thinking and let's see, okay. You may be her dad as she's an adult

[00:56:15] but your control or supervision will continue or stop at her discretion. 100%. And that's what I'm trying to say is like that's where that shift, that's where that dynamic of parent and child shifts is I'm an adult now. So sometimes I feel like I'm still put

[00:56:35] at the kitty table with my family. There have been many times when I've had this conversation within the last six months where I, my parents are not in a situation where if I went to them for something they could give it.

[00:56:51] They're just not capable and in a lot of ways physically they're not capable to do some things. Monetarily they're not able to do some things although I don't ask for money from my parents or anything like that. And then emotionally they're not capable

[00:57:06] of doing things and so my relationship with my parents has strictly become a daughter who is slowly becoming a caregiver and making sure that my parents are doing the things that they should be doing to care for their health even though I sometimes wonder if

[00:57:31] their neglect of themselves is what they're trying to accomplish. You know what I'm saying? I think they've given up on a lot of things. I know that I could go to your parents for those things. I mean, I have gone to your parents for those things.

[00:57:49] I've had emotional conversations with your dad and your mom together and I've had, I mean there have been times when you've had, we've had to ask for money from your parents and to fix their AC or maybe that wasn't it.

[00:58:03] But anyway, I know that when I did inherit your parents as my parents, I know that now I have a safety net of another group of parents and you got the text from your dad during the show last week. When I said that when we go over there

[00:58:23] and I usually fall asleep and take naps and your dad said, well I just thought that we were boring. No, I get peace from your parents. I get that sense of comfort that I did not get in my house and I still don't get.

[00:58:39] When it's time for me to go over to my parents, I have to psych myself up for hours just to get in the car to go over there because it's still such a tense situation. They are just both unhappy people and that's a hard energy to swallow.

[00:58:57] I don't remember again where I was going with this but it does change as you become an adult. We've seen it with our 12 year old. Last night she passed out hugs before bed and you better believe I jumped out of that bed to give her a hug.

[00:59:13] It's like, wait what? You want physical contact from your mom? Yes, I'll take it. She's probably listening going, oh my God mom, you're so weird but. She might understand one day. But I can remember when she was little bitty

[00:59:30] and then she was on my hip the whole time she slept in the bed with us because that's what we decided to do and now she sleeps with her door closed and she passes out hugs every now and then she'll pass out a hug.

[00:59:46] But I know that that is going to change and it's also, I remember when I was probably like 24 or 25. Maybe not that old, maybe like 21 or 22. My relationship as a teenager with my parents was what it was.

[01:00:04] But then I changed and so I started to see my parents in a different light as well. And so I kind of, that from inside out too that on we, emotion, that boring like whatever mom, whatever dad, emotion left. And then I was kind of like

[01:00:26] in my right frame of mind kind of thing. Yep, that's it. I've run out of words. See every now and then what we do on this show is we're going, we're going and we see a little side road we're like I wonder where that goes.

[01:00:39] And it goes to... Maybe you do need Bluetooth to my head so that you can keep me. I go off on these tangents. I know. Okay. And then I don't remember what I'm trying to say. Well but my function in this podcast production world

[01:00:54] is to take you from the dead end at the end of the side road back to the topic and sometimes we've just gone so far off into the woods. I don't know how to get back to where we started.

[01:01:03] What I'm trying to say is exactly what Joe said. That's what I was trying to say. Okay. It stops at her discretion when she becomes older. Yes, 100% will. But... We made it. Yeah, but I think... Is that your dad? No. No. Anyway. But yeah, that's, I mean that's

[01:01:30] when parents quit nutshell. Like I'm gonna be very, I'm gonna be very harsh when you say that. I don't think as a parent, like you have a right to quit. I think as with anything in life that is a responsibility that it's a...

[01:01:45] If something is, if I'm responsible for something the only in Gileagilie knows this about me. This is not just emotional or responsibility to the people around me. This is something as simple as I gave my word, something would happen and it's going to happen.

[01:02:00] But if I let down something I'm responsible for is because literally I'm like in bed, on bed rest, on my death bed cannot, cannot make it happen no matter what. And in those instances I am very apologetic that I couldn't, could not handle my responsibilities.

[01:02:17] But I see parenting as seriously as I see anything I've given my word to do. And I'm gonna tell everyone out there that like as a parent you don't have a right to quit. You don't have a right to give up. You don't have a right to say,

[01:02:31] well my kid's a pain in the butt so I'm just gonna let him like sit in front of an iPad and not give them love and affection. Or you know they're 15, they're probably out there with their, at their friend's house but who knows if they have parental supervision

[01:02:43] or if they're lying dead in a ditch. Like you don't have a right... That was me! You don't have a right to neglect your kids. I don't care how tired you are. I don't care how, you know, spent you are. I don't care. What's more important?

[01:03:00] I understand the whole, you can't pour from empty cup but if there's this much left in the cup give it to your kids and be a mom and a dad. And if there's nothing left in the cup then two things. Hey yeah, you need a break

[01:03:12] but the other thing I'm gonna say is like from my own perspective if you find that you never have anything left in the cup there's a problem there that needs to get fixed because I can't give to my kid because I have nothing left

[01:03:25] should not be a longstanding repetitive thing. And if you allow it to be then I see it as you neglecting your kids. So quit neglecting your kids. Good show, old boy. Good show, old chap. All right, that is it for us today. Don't forget to go,

[01:03:48] don't forget to look for the merch once I tell you about the merch and that it's ready to go and I think Tiffany's pretty close. She's chomping at the bed. Yeah, so and then don't forget that we won't be here next week. We won't be here next week.

[01:04:04] If I'm good about reminding Mrs. Raising Values she might drop some family beach photos on the podcast feed. Why? Or not. Anyway, I hope y'all enjoy the rest of your Sunday and the rest of your weekend and we'll see y'all in two weeks. Two weeks.

[01:04:25] With a nice tan. Bye for now. All right, bye everybody.