Church & State -Our Net Has Holes In It with Commissioner Clarence H. Carter

Spokane Valley could become a sanctuary city. A different housman, Caleb Collier says that this I'm. Proposing that the City of Spokane Valley issue a proclamation stating that our city is a Second Amendment sanctuary. Welcome to the. Fire today on Church and State. Our net has holes in it with Commissioner Clarence Carter, Helocasi patriots and welcome to Church and State, where we drive morality and religion over tolerance and apathy. And I'm your host, Caleb Callier, once again your favorite far right shock jock and the show that talks about politics and religion. Jesus Christ is our referee, so it's always nice and clean. Real quick, I'm an appoint you to the website Church and State dot media. Fill out that registration forum for us. You'll get the newsletter and of course personal phone call from yours truly. While you're there, check out some of our most recent episodes. We continue to cover hard hitting stories information that you need to hear. 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So if you want to help us ten dollars a month, twenty dollars a month, whatever it is, we appreciate it. Lastly, if you want to get hold of us Church and State seventeen seventy six at Proton Dot mean well that thrilled to bring you. Commissioner Clarence Carter. This is a man who's been in the mix for quite some time. He's written a book, Our Nets are Safe. Well it's not our safety nets, but that's actually what it is. But our nets have holes in it, talking about the current system that's been established to assist people in their darkest times. He's worked for numerous people, numerous presidents. He's part of the DC Homeless program and Commissioner Carter, it is a pleasure to have you on Church and State. Caleb, is a pleasure to be here with you in your audience today. Well, thank you very much, sir. So, you know, this is something that I think the vast majority of Americans are deeply aware. There's fractures in the system that the systems that were established under people like you know, FDR that we're supposed to, you know, ensure a chicken in every pot, as it were, that they've been rated. I mean, you look at like Social Security, for example, there is absolutely no way that Social Security is going to continue. I don't plan on seeing any of the money that I poured into it. You've dedicated your life to trying to help people through this system. Tell us a little bit about your work. Sure, so, I have dedicated a career of thirty five. Years to addressing the challenges with the systems, the public systems that we have designed to address human vulnerability. And I've had the blessing and good fortune of serving in the administrations of two presidents, for governors and a mayor the federal, state and local levels of government, and so I have developed an intimate understanding of the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats of that system. And dowaling back into where you started, this, helping our vulnerable neighbors is something that is backed into the DNA. This society, America is the most generous and benevolent nation known to humankind. This nation would give one the shirt off its back. And in the beginning of the book, I actually lay out some validation to that point. And so. I then say, it's not that we don't care enough, it's not that we don't spend enough. It's that what we do is stupid, and that. We need to do that differently because it's our intention to help. Our intentions are being forwarded flawed design and execution. Well, I love the fact that you're just not pulling punches. You know, that's fantastic. It's stupid. I like that. I like that you're using harsh words to describe the current situation that we're in. So for the for the audience here, can you kind of give a you know, thirty second overview or whatever of what is wrong with the system currently? Sure, So let me let me begin with a slight explanation. Okay, when when when I use the term public safety net, I'm referring to. The system of federally authorized. Programs that were each design with the intention of addressing some dimension of human vulnerability. And so there are currently one hundred and fourteen of those programs that were all developed singularly to address a single aspect of the human condition. They evolved over time, and because there was no overarching intention in the build of the system, it is literally just an aggregation of single purpose programs with no true north. And so there lies the problem that we begin with no shared vision. And I make the argument in the book that we have to begin with a shared vision, and that I propose that that shared vision ought to be in concert with the principles of the Founding Fathers. The Founding Fathers intended to form a society in which the greatest degree of freedom could be held by the citizenry while protecting. For health, safety, and commerce. And so it stands to reason all of the mechanisms of that society ought to be designed to meet the same intention, the greatest amount of freedom. Well, our system of public supports this aggregation of single purpose programs is not designed to produce freedom. It actually produces dependency, well said, because its intention. Its intention is. The delivery of a program, not the well being of the citizenry. And so my base argument is that if we begin with that founding principle of freedom, then what you do is you re architect what exists to be able to produce that and that and that success or victory is the day that that consumer doesn't need it anymore. Okay, success it's not that I deliver you a food stamp benefit. That that's actually I mean putting band aid on an open wound. But yet that's what I get judged on. I get judged on the delivery of the benefit, that I get it to the right person, that I get it to them in the appropriate amount of time. Okay. My argument is, yes, we should. Measure those things for accountability's sake, but shouldn't we also measure what can we do to help that consumer not need that you know, next week. Next month, next year, Okay, And so we need to. Part of the reform of the system needs to be measuring the outcome of well being? Okay? Did what we do move the needle so that that vulnerable neighbor can get to the place where they can take the baton of their life and run the rest of their race without public. Intervention, you know, I mean, I think most Americans are very aware that there is massive problems within there's the so called social safety nets, and you're absolutely right, you nailed it. You're breeding a mentality of slavery through this, where you are beholden to the government, where the government has become your daddy, and there's never an incentive to better yourself. It's like the old analogy. If you give a man a fish, if you feed him, but if you're teach him a fish, you know there's this life. You know, he can then progress and reach for the stars. And that used to be what America was about, was people reaching for the stars and accomplishing great things, and now we become this dependent welfare state. I want to ask you this, though you know, there's obviously so much bureaucracy involved in this, and you've got the warring factions. You got the Democrats, which are kind of the welfare state, and then you've got the Republicans, which are the warfare state, and they're not agreeing on anything. And meanwhile, the American public, we're spending billions of our taxpayer dollars on all sorts of issues, you know. I mean, we're talking about the social safety nets, but there's a lot of other things that our money is going to that I don't support, I don't vote for. And let me tell your audience feeling that the amount I mentioned a. Little bit ago that there were one hundred and fourteen of these individual programs we spent, and this is federal government alone. I've got a list of them and the spending in the book. We spend annually one point four to nine trillion dollars on those one hundred and fourteen programs. In Caleb, that's the federal government alone. That doesn't count in almost all of those programs that they are not administered by the federal government. They're funded by the federal government. The states and localities administer them, and the states are required to put up a cost share. To actually administer the program. So the one point four to nine trillion doesn't count a penny of state money, it doesn't count a penny of local money, it doesn't count a penny of. Money from the community of faith, it. Doesn't count a penny of money from the private sector, from philanthropy. So you know my argument. And I hope someday to be able to do a full mapping of our expenditures because it far exceeds that one point four trillion dollars. And that's fine, I say, okay, okay, we just need to be. Better stewards of those dollars. Yeah, I would absolutely agree. I was actually an EMT for a number of years and through that I dealt with a lot of the homeless population. And there were a number of different facilities that would care for these these homeless people that we could you know, take them to if they didn't want to go to the hospital. And what I found is the ones that were stayed or federally funded, well, they didn't work very well. And then there was a couple that were private Christian ones and guests who saw the greatest success in turning people's lives around. The private of course. Absolutely And what's very interesting about that. This is the conversation that I had with my dear friend and colleague, who is who heads government's Office of Faith in Community. I said to him a couple of years ago, I said, Lance, what I'm responsible for is transaction. Okay, in the government, I can do the transaction of let's say a snap or foodstamp benefit. But if my intention is to grow someone beyond the vulnerability that is them need foodstamps, they need not only transaction, relationship. And I said, government doesn't traffic in relationship. I said, so can I ask of you? Can you bring together. A group of faith leaders so I can ask for their help And he said, I would absolutely love to do that. We have built a partnership and we are building a structure in Tennessee that speaks to this. But I started off speaking to. That group of faith leaders, and I said that it was President Reagan that said that the nine most dangerous words in the English lexicon is I'm from the government and I'm here to help. And I said, lyncey, and I want to turn that saying on its head. I want to say, I'm from the government and I'm here asking for your help. Because government cannot solve the most vexing problems of our society. It requires all of us. And so I am trying to humbly from the government, which government doesn't. Have milk okay, ask for the help of the community of faith in helping our vulnerable neighbors. And then it said, tell just tell us what to do, and is there any way that you can make that bureaucracy work so that it's not so painful for us. To try to engage with Yeah? I love that, you know, Commissioner Curder. What if we as parents decided to treat our children the way the government treats the vulnerable, where it's like, Hey, you're this beautiful baby. I got you in my arms, and I'm not even gonna teach you to walk, you know, no education, nothing, because I just want to hold on to you like this. You know, we'd end up like we'd end up like the humans in Wally the Disney movie, where they're just these obese people in these hover chairs. They can't do anything for themselves, right, And you know, one of the. Things that I thinkd folks all the time. Every parent that has ever held their child's hand to help them walk across the street, and we're doing that not because they were going to do that forever, but they were preparing them to do that for themselves. And shouldn't that be our objective in our safety that help people get to the place where they can do for themselves. I mean, it makes sense to me. You know, I'm always going to side on the private you know, the churches. And for a very long time throughout recorded history, you know, safety nets came from the church and private entities, from families who were taking care of individuals who maybe were falling on hard times. Maybe they were out plowing the field and they broke their leg, and so the family and the church is going to come alongside them. We farmed that out to government, and in typical fashion, because of the decretic nature, has just failing us. And that is exactly one of the points that I make in the book that over the course of years and the evolution of our safety net, that's the size and scope of government has increased. It has served to crowd out the rest of our society from being part of the problem solving. And so that's why part. Of what we have to do, Yes, we have to fix the government mechanism. But the other thing we have to do is to invite the rest of the society back to this problem solving. One of the things that I talk about in the book. To me, one of the most uplifting things that you see on a regular basis in America. Whenever there is tragedy or life. Everybody wants to help. I mean, and they bring whatever it is they have. You know, they might have a shovel or a truck, or a sandwich or a dollar. But we just rally to that. Okay, that's the DNA of this nation. Okay, And I say that's the kind of rallying to that. I hope that we can get to a place where we invite our society for this problem of vulnerability. This is Yes, the government is always going to have a role to play, and I know canub. You and I would go back and forth on that, and that's good, okay, But I think that that has sort of been long settled. The question is one whatever that role the government is going to have needs to be infinitely. More efficient and effective. But at the same time, we need to bring the rest of America to the solving of this problem. Yeah, I would agree with that my wife oftentimes accuses me of living in this libertarian utopia. And so you know, if I had this magic wand and, I could waive it and return it back to the original intent, you know, which would cut a lot of government programs. I realized, because I am a realist, that that would be utter chaos, that this country is not prepared to deal with that level of freedom. And so what I like about your approach is you are taking that realist approach here. Hey, let's let's bring the American people back into this conversation, into the solution without creating the chaos that my magic wand would do. That's it, and Cana, I'm probably gonna get. In some trouble here, You're on the right show for it. Okay. That is for me part of the challenge that I feel like President Trump has created and I and. I worked in his first term, okay, and I feel I got some good work done, But there was such a level of chaos because there's so many things that that government has just completely filed up so many okay, and quite frankly it needed to be taken the wrecking ball to but it's hard to work in the midst of all the chaos, and so in a second term in which I was asked if I wanted to serve, I said thanks, but no, because I wanted to be able to do this. Work in a less chaotic environment. And Governor Bill Lee is at every bit principle a conservative with only five percent of the chaos, and so have been able to do some great work here in fashioning this vision of how you move this existing safety net from the mess it has become to the transformational model. It could be. Well, and that's the point, right, Like, we didn't get here overnight. It has been two hundred and fifty years of slow encroachment upon the freedoms that you and I were discussing in the beginning of the show. And so we're not going to get back there just by snapping our fingers creating this chaos. I'm realistic enough to admit that, all right, And maybe that gets me in trouble with some of my libertarian audience, but look, I want to get there. I want to get there. How do we get there. We're going to have to slowly fight our way back inch finance, just clawn our ways back towards that freedom that our founding fathers had established and so I do. I approve of your methods and killed. The The thing that I am most bullied by is the discussion that we are having today. I have had this very discussion in so many different places, left right and center. Nobody disagrees with it. Now there is a question, okay, how do we get there? But when you begin the discussion with the objective. Of freeing people to act in their own best interests, nobody argues with that with that outcome. Now, what what I get struck by is some people say, well, isn't that what we're doing? Something what we're doing, and then that enables this conversation. But and and so I find great red with this pathway. And I just so appreciate the opportunity to engage with your audience because. What it's my intention to do. I am hoping And again, the reason that I wrote the book so. That we could engage this nation in this conversation. And actually start a firestorm that would transform, that would drive the transformation of the system of public supports. So it's based on this freedom model. Yeah, I like that. Let me ask you this question, and I'm not sure if you know this, but maybe you can speculate how many of these government safety net programs are applied internationally where it's not actually benefiting the American citizens, it's going to some other you know. And granted, you know there's there's a lot of poverty, a lot of warfare, a lot of sicknesses and things that are going on in other countries. But is there a portion of this this money, these trillions of dollars that are going to foreign countries instead of the US. So the one point four nine trillion that I mentioned that is all domestic. Now, of course there's foreign aid, but that's that's that's not that's not part of that one point four nine trillion. And we have some some pretty I would say, I don't want to say strict, but some pretty significant guidelines that are intended to protect that one point four nine trillion or for American citizens. So so, so, yes. We continue to to provide foreign aid for our neighbors. And and you know, so since you arrange the issue. You know, when at the beginning of this second term, when the president closed down USAID, there was this hue and foreign crime. Oh no, we're not going to provide support for the more around the world. And that wasn't it at all. It is that. Both loads of those dollars were being used through non governmental organizations to do just ridiculous stuff in. Foreign countries that wasn't in any. Way in alignment with our our advancing American ideas, and so closing that down, having that become part of the State Department, it allows the Secretary of State to ensure that those dollars are going to other countries, but those dollars are supporting of American ideas. Yeah, some of the things you'd see in there is like transgender benefits for indigenous tribes in Africa, and it's like, what, I don't think that's their issue. You know, that's not what they're struggling with over there. Okay, So yeah, I definitely get what you're saying there. Okay, Well, I appreciate your insight onto that one. I want to bring up because we're approaching a heartbreak, but for the NMBTV audience, I want to make sure that they have an opportunity to look at your books. So we're going to bring up the Amazon link here. Our net has holes in it by author Clarence H. Carter, Commissioner Carter here, but a veteran public servant who has some very interesting ideas, as you've been able to hear. But tell the audience why you should read or why they should read your book. Because you should read our net household in it because this is something that you give a damn about. You care about helping the vulnerable in our society. That's the nature of our American society. And I want you to understand that the precious resources that you make available every single year are being squandered because of stupidity, Okay, and so what we want to be able to. Do is to. Truly take advantage of the American heart that dedicates. Precious resources to this endeavor. That's why everybody should read the book. Well, I think my audience can get behind this. You know what you're talking about, you know, the squandering of our personal wealth. I don't know anybody who looks forward to tax day. Yeah, they're like, oh man, how much do I owe the government? This is great. I wish we could audit it, you know, and see like where's all this money going to? We don't seem to that right, we should have it. But all this money that we're getting taxed, you know, yearly on where's it going? How is it being effective? I mean, look at any business and if you're involved, if you're a shareholder in this, you can look at and say, hey, you guys aren't spending my money wisely. Maybe I take my bill business elsewhere. Now we're gonna come back. We're gonna keep talking about this with Commissioner Carter. This is Caleb Collier with Church and State. Are you tired of your device spying on you? Ladies and gentlemen. We live in nineteen eighty four. Your phones, your tablets, your smart televisions, they all are spying on you. And this is why I heavily endorse Mark thirty seven dot com. This is everything you need for your digital privacy. Phones, tablets, laptops, all of them are ghost protocols, so that means that you are in charge of your own data. Just go to Church and State dot Media, scroll over to shop and hit Mark thirty seven dot com for all of your privacy needs. Make sure to use that promo code Church and State and we're back. Can thank you for staying with us. You're over at Church and State dot Media and we're going to go right back to our very interesting guest but real quick, I do have to plug one of our amazing affiliates, and Chris, I'm thinking coffee. I mean, we love we're talking about America, right, We're talking about American history, We're talking about our founding fathers. Well you know they all love coffee. No, they were dumping tea in the harbor because we don't drink tea in America. We drink coffee. So check out Hunter's Blend Coffee. I love this stuff. I drink it. Chris likesit as well. But go check them out. Their their Christian, their patriots and some of the best coffee on the market Hunters Blend Coffee. Make sure to use that promo code Church and State. All right, and real quick, once again, hit the donate button for us, please, ladies and gentlemen, keep us on the air conversations like these ones. They truly do matter. I love bringing in a wide variety of different guests that we can talk about really important subjects. So if you like it, hit the donate button for us. All right. With that, let's go ahead and go back to Commissioner Carter our Netthouse holes in it and Commision in her card. I had brought up uh you know, my desire to audit the government and all of it's spending. And I'd brought up the comparison of if you're a shareholder in a business, that you can look at how they're spending their money. But we don't seem to have that right here in America as we're looking at at what's being spent on uh, you know, our citizens for for these safety nets. And and Caleb, the truth is we are very audited. There is a single, a single audit that gets done on every agency that I've been in every year, and then all of the federal programs have some kind of monitoring or auditing function that they put us through. It is just that we're auditing a client, Okay. As I said about the. SNAP program, the three things that I get measured on is did I get the benefit to the consumer that was entitled to receive it. Did I get it to them in the appropriate amount? Did I get it to them in the appropriate time frame. So I would say that it is not that we don't have an eye. On these expenditures. I really just believe that we are asking the wrong things. This is what the very thing I said to the Governor Lee and Chief Gibson during my vetting process for this job, he said, you know, you ask the wrong things in your safety net. And truly, what they asked for is compliance. They don't ask for issues of well being. And that's where we really want to we really want to sort of shift the energy. I am about to been asked to testify before the House Oversight Committee later on this month about fraud, fraud, waste and abuse in the SNAP program. And I'm going to explain some of this, but I'm also going to explain to them that, you know, as there's been this big examination of fraud in these programs over the past, you know, a few months, part of the challenge is is that the popsy design of the programs is in such that it was set up to detect and mitigate fraud. Okay, So there are design problems with these programs that are not best for mitigating those who would steal precious resources from our vulnerable neighbors. So we have some tightening up to do on the federal side, okay, just like we've got some tightening up to do on the state and the consumer side in ensuring that these precious benefits get to those who are eligible and entitled to receive them, but then that they achieve this purpose of freedom that we believe ought to be the core of any safety net initiatives. Sure, and you know, one of the commandments of Jesus was to care for widows and orphans. I let me just put it this way. I would not want to be somebody who had stolen from widows and orphans when I was standing before for the Great Judge. You know, it's a kind of a terrifying thought right there. Let me ask you this, Oh, go ahead, sir, Yeah, if. I could on that full motion of widows and orphans. I just want to say that, in its infinite wisdom, one of the stupid things the government did in this welfare system was it actually kicked men. Out of the house. Yep. Absolutely. It said that you could not receive this benefit if it was a man. And so government, in its infinite stupidity, broke the family. And we wonder why today so many social ills have been visited upon us because that most important institution in our society, which is the family, government had a role in destroying yep. Absolutely. And so one of. The things that we have focused on here is going back upstream and saying, if it's our intention to serve vulnerable tennesseeans, Okay, let's go back to the scene of the crime, Okay, and let's look at how we can strengthen family, because the brokenness of family is what starts the slide into the into the sea of vulnerability. So I just the window's an orphans part. I just needed them to touch on that. Yeah, I mean, I got to tell you my wife, I've been trying to get her to move out of I'm in Washington State. It's a mess. It's a zoo out here, as you well know. But I've been trying to get her to move to the southeast and and Tennessee is as a top contender, and so you're just you're making it harder for me to stay where I'm at, Commissioner Carter. I'm listening to all the things you're doing in Tennessee, and I'm like, yep, time to move to Chattanooga. My wife and I like Chattanooga. Absolutely, Caleb. I had to, you know, I spent that first that first term of the Trump administration in DC and it was just so toxic. Seeing that edge was just so very toxic, and to get out of there and everything. Every engagement in the district is transactional. People always want Anybody engages you. They engage you. They engage you because they want something from you. So I get to Tennessee and everybody, everybody speaks okay. It's the nature of the beast. And the first thing I thought was what do they want from me? And what I quickly it came to understand is they just want to greet you. They don't let they don't want anything. This is this is a warm, engaging. Culture here. That is one. It is the most fiscally responsible place I've been, okay, And there is a real embrace of the human experience here. And so we just come on down, Come on down. I'm going to get you in contact with my wife there. Let me let me ask you this just from my personal experience. When I was in the Marine Corps, I was in comms, and every single year I remember this distinctly. Uh. They would tell us, hey, uh, it's the budget time, and if we don't use the budget that's been allocated for us, if we come in under then there's a potential for the next year that they'll they'll take away that budget, they'll establish it at the line that existed the year before when we were under budget. And so is there an incentive with a lot of these programs to either remain right at the budget they've been given or exceeded for fear that they won't get that money the next year. So what's interesting in one particular program, and this is the welfare reform initiative of the Clinton administration. It created the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act and the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. It was the successor to Aid to Families with Dependent Children. What's unique about that program is that. Dates get the same amount every year in they have of the past thirty years, and what they don't spend gets held in escroup, so it doesn't to the treasury. And that has created some challenges in and of itself because when I got to the Trump administration, there was across the states there were six billion dollars. Of that money that had been stockpiled and so it hadn't been expended. And I sent out a letter to the states because I was in the agency that administered that, and I said, why don't we put those dollars to use? And look at some innovative approaches to helping. Families with dependent children. Well, the States told me to. Go down, okay, but buts as the Lord would have it. My next assignment was Tennessee. And the reason that Governor Lee engaged me was because Tennessee had the largest expended balance in the country of seven hundred and forty million dollars, and so he asked, can you help me with that problem? I said, yes, I can, and so I came here and. We worked with the administration and the legislature to construct a program that would not only spend down those dollars in effective ways over time, but we also stood up some very innovative pilot programs that are testing new ideas and that we've we've used the gold standard of evaluation to measure those pilots, because the governor and legislature said, we want to know what works, okay, and we're going to throw out what doesn't work, and then that's where we're going to move to those things. That proved to be effective to us. So over over my tenure here have been testing models. Tennessee has really been a laboratory. We're trying to transform the Tennessee Safety net that I hope to become a model for. The rest of the nation. I think I figured it out, Commissioner Carter. I think you just make too much sense for the state of the federal government. I think that's why you've been frustrated there. What you're saying seems logical to me, it makes sense. I'm glad that Tennessee scooped you up, because, as anybody who's watching knows, Tennessee is probably one of the greatest states in the Union. It absolutely is. It absolutely is. And the reason. That the state state government is better for me is because this is the place where I actually get to touch the consumers. That I serve. Okay, the federal government they make rules and move money. Here, I actually get to and administering the programs. I get to get out and see. Is this working for the people that it's intended to work for. So, you know, whenever, whenever I get jaded by the nonsense of the system, doing something like going to a graduation ceremony or a fatherhood program where a cohort of fathers has gone through a set of courses and be re engaged with their children. The seeing the pride in their children's face as their as their fathers received the certificate for completion of this and even you know, and in that engagement. Seeing that that. That spouse who probably could paint stand in she's proud, you know, at the accomplishment you do something like that, you get a chance to go to a court date where there where foster kids are being adopted okay and getting forever homes all right, you know things like that. If that don't just touch your heart, then you've got problems. So I got a chance to really get a chance to see my work in action. Yeah, I love that. I gotta tell you. You know. One of the things I'm a big advocate for the tenth Amendment because the tenth Amendment allows for competition within the states. And this is exactly like you said, this is a laboratory. Tennessee is a laboratory for competition to say, hey, oh you guys, you're doing it the old way. We're trying some new and innovative ways. Will it work, will it fail? We don't know. It seems to be working right now. And the people can flood the market that can get in there into Tennessee and say hey, yeah, this is the state that I want to live in. So hats off to you. I applaud your efforts on this one. Thanks, thanks so much. Then, as I said, this is. The thing that God put me on this earth for, and and as long as I have breadth, I'm going to continue to to follow this path. And I hope that I. Can, you know, service kind of like a pied paper to to share this set of ideas and bring the rest of the American society to what its true intention is. I mean, this is this is our hope. And and I. Think in many instances we think, you know, even though on tax Day, you know, we all comes okay, what our hope is is that these taxes are doing these kinds of things. And so I want to ensure in this instance, I want to move us towards where these these tax dollars are helping us to meet our true intention as an American society. Absolutely all right, Well, we've pretty much run out of time here. What I want to do is I want to bring up the Amazon again. I want my audience to read this book Our Net Has Holes in It by Clarence H. Carter, And it's just, you know, I've had a fantastic conversation with you. I've really enjoyed it. Even though we you know, we might have some different beliefs, you know, we've come together. We've had a very pleasant discussion about this, and I do believe that your solution will I mean, it has merit obviously, but it will be successful in here and and once again, it's moving towards the Founding Fathers instead of away from the Founding Fathers, and I do respect that and appreciate it so much. So last words for the audiencer. Just canob thank you so so very much for the opportunity and to your audience. This is something that we all care about, and so please engage with the book and. Help us. I feel like this is a journey towards a place that our society wants to get to, and so thank you so much for the opportunity to be with your audience today. Yeah, absolutely, sir. Maybe I can convince my wife, you know, I know there's a Callerville in Tennessee. Maybe I could move there, become the mayor of Collierville right there. I mean, it's just it's a match made in heaven right there. It's perfect, and the show would certainly have a perfect hull in Tennessee. I definitely know that for sure. All Right, well, I'm gonna go ahead and close this out, sir, once again, pleasure're having you on the show. If you hold on one more minute post production, Sarah, goodbyes. I'd appreciate it. But thank you for all the work that you're doing. I know, Tennessee. Thanks you and I do as well. Thanks absolutely. All right, ladies and gentlemen, there you go. Solutions. You know that I'm a solutions oriented show, and wal you know, I mean, I know I have that pie in the sky libertarian outlook on this. This is a solution that will work, that will pull us back from literally the edge of chaos to working in a system that does actually benefit all citizens. Church and State is brought to you in part by Colonial Life, Spokane, Independent Agents, Finders Insurance, and Mark three to seven dot Com. I'm Caleb Collier. I was born for a storm. Welcome to the fire. This is Caleb Collier with Church and State Dot Media. Laies and gentlemen, if you're not sleeping on my pillow, do you even patriots? I gotta tell you this is the most wonderful stuff from a man who's given it all for your freedoms, whether it be the pillow, the sheets, or the slippers. I absolutely adore my pillow. My pillow has the greatest products around. I know when I want to shuffle around in my bathrobe and slippers and yell at the neighbors. Of course I'm buying from my pillow. I need you to head on over to Church and State dot media scroll over two shop because every single time that you purchase any of these products using the promo code Church and State, you ensure that we keep our message out on the air. I thank everybody for your support and using a promo. 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