Church & State -The Australian Patriot Topher Field from Freedom Fest

Spokane Valley could become a sanctuary city. A different Houseman Caleb Collier says that this I'm. Proposing that the City of Spokane Valley issue a proclamation stating that our city is a Second Amendment sanctuary. Welcome to the fire. Today on Church and State, the Australian Patriot Toverfield, hellocas your patriots, and welcome to Church and State, where we drive morality and religion over tolerance and apathy. And I'm your host, Caleb Callier, once again, your favorite far right shock jock and the show that talks about politics and religion. Jesus Christ is our referee, so it's always nice and clean. Real quick points you to the website Church and State. Don media do a few things here. Number one, fill out this form for us, all right, it's important. We're sending you the newsletter, we're sending of the shows. We're bypassing censorship. And I personally call you, which is such a huge benefit. People love talking to me. I'm so entertaining and so friendly. 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And I say that humbly, but please, it does require money to do what we're doing, and so if you like it, whatever amount helps us get there. Lastly, if you. Want to get a hold of US Church and State seventeen seventy six at Proton dot me well that let's go ahead and get into our interview with tofer Field. He's an Australian, he's a patriot served well. He paid the penalty for his patriotism and for his love of liberty in Australia, which during COVID became probably one of the most tyrannical nations in the entire world. It was rather shocking to see. But taph is one of the good guys, so I hope you enjoy this interview. Hey, this is Caleb Call. You're a church and State. I'm over at Freedom Fest and I've got a great guest right here at Toberfield. I find you at the TOFA project correct. TAVIA project or just type typefield dot com and tycheerfield in suctions. Okay, excellent, now you have. I mean, you are kind of a thorn inside of Australia, but really big govern in as a whole, and you really kind of the catalyst for you was the extreme lockdowns that we saw during COVID in Australia. Was like hold my beer, Like we're going to go fall on tyrant. Yeah. I was already on a journey towards libertarianism and Christian libertarianism before then, but that was really the first time in my life I had put the rubber to the wold, because if I didn't, I was going to become a hypocrite. And you know, everyone hopes that they're the courageous guy. Everyone hopes that when the time comes, they will be the one. We have to be humble enough to admit that until we get tested, B don't know. And so I developed certain beliefs about what ought to be done in such a hypothetical scenario. And then all of a sudden, the scenario was no longer hypothetical, and I had to I had to speak up, I had to do something. And I'm sure we'll talk about that in a minute, but the context there is I've been a political commentator since two thousand and nine. I started when YouTube was on your two years old. I was independent from the very beginning, and I just did it as an obvious this thing that I did on the summon, and I was almost sort of perversely press like this false humility kind of thing of not caring about how many people watched. I wasn't trying to grow an audience. That's kind of vulgar of these people who are trying to get more followers, and no, I'm not like them. And then COVID hit and I began to speak out and say, guys, these lockdowns are a terrible idea. They are going to do well harmed than we would. My position for those that are wondering is let's protect those who are genuinely vulnerable. And by March of two thousand and twenty, we knew who they were. We had the data out of Italy, out of Sweeten, out of Israel, out of other places, age stratified, divided up by co morbidities. We understood who was genuinely at risk. And for the rest of us it really wasn't that big a deal and it should have been treated as stuff. So protect the vulnerable, let everyone else go free. And you were very quickly to the community. That was my position, and I began to speak out to say that, and I'm coms as a blowback, you won't run, how to die, you don't care about people. You're being selfish all the rest of me. And then someone because I was the only public figure at the time who was actually speaking out. I wasn't the only person, but I was the only person who had a public profile. I'd been a commentator for ten years by then I got invited to speak the very first anti lockdown protest. Now you've got to understand Australia as much as you know that Australian went crazy you don't know how crazy. And I can say that with authority because every time someone watches my documentary, even people who were in Australia, unless they were out there with us, if they stayed behind their closed doors and obeyed the rules, they watched the documentary and they come back to me and go, ty, I'm so sorry. They had no idea actually how man got it out there. So we were in a situation where the government had decided to declare a state of emergency, which gives the premier the state Premier of Victoria. So obviously we're a country an them by minister. The Prime Minister mostly didn't bat to lockdowns. It was the State of Victoria under the Premier Danie Andrews that really went full on Tyranngal. And you can think of Victoria as the kind of filming story. I have a one party state, Progressive Left and Worship's government. The government is at the center of our society. And that's that's probably true in most of Western Problatory, but it's certain entoring in Ventori and so Daniel Landram's the Premier was cast as the central figure in the battle of a lifetime against the virus of a lifetime boy. He loved it. He was the central he was the hero now and we watched as people went mad. They divided it into two camps basically, and you'd be familiar with mass loves Moat. It means the sort of triangular thing at the bottom is bear survival, such a food order or shelter. At the top is living your best life. He calls it self actualization. But you've got purpose and meaning and and belonging and you just can't wait to get up every day and get on with another one erful day. The reality of life is most of us are kind of in a blob in the middle westing. At any given moment in time, there's only a handful of us that are desperate for survival, and there's regrettably only a handful that are really living their best life. Most extort block now when you bring along loveds and then for context, lockdowns in Australia meant every private business that was not deemed to be essentral was columnist. We were in our homes for twenty three hours a day. If we left our homes for that one hour per day, it had to be for a government to prove legitimate reason. If you went more than five kilometers, which is about three miles from your poem, they would arrest you unless you had paperwork from the government to prove that you were allowed to and they would use another plate skain as in new or Gallery. If you I'm address came it was too far away, they give you over. The playgrounds were closed, everything you have, schools were closed. All of that. They put up a thing called the Ring of Steel, which was military checkpoints and all the actio little roads want and out of Melbourne. So four and a half million people were basically in and outdoor prison and you had to, you know, without any irony at all. They were coming forward and saying papers please, you know, looking through your window, and to give you some idea of just how heartless this actually was and implementation wise. When elderly people went for their one hour of your untime for their war, which was that permissible reason to leave homes for exercise, if they stopped and sat on a plank bench, they got arrested because you're you're no longer exercising when I'm doing that exercise. People got arrested for taking their bins out for an anthm perfect. You didn't have a perfect for long. It was a period there where we had one. And people got arrested because they took their bins to the put it after an EPM. Who were they? A danger to everybody? Else is in SID and so there was no rationality, there's no sense to the law. And the other thing that the government did is they shut down out parliament so that they weren't subject to parliamentary question of titles any sort of spult near over and they made protests illegal. Now I'm not a protest A film made I was raisers are passed his kid, good conservative family, goodye two shoes to a thought I look back at, I cringe at just what I suck up I really was. And you know, I served in the military, never deployed. I'm not trying to claim anything out of that, but like, I passed all the security checks, the and the psychological checks, and I I did the good conservative thing and joined the army. And if I'd been deployed, I would have gone thankfully. I but I tipped all those boxes all the way through. And then COVID came along, and I knew in the depths of my soul that what the gun was doing, churches would being shut down, and to their shame, most churches agree. Most churches didn't just obey, they supported it. And we'll get to that later, I'm sure. But I knew that my conscience demanded of me that I speak. And then I was invited to speak of a protest. Now that's different to speaking out online. It was the protest for a leg This was a decision, and I knew if I go and do this my life they'll never be the same. If no idea what it will look like. I don't know how dramatic change a beat yet, but it will never be the same. And there was an enormous amount of fear in the media, an enormous amount of fear in a lot of people's hearts and minds, and to go against that in a moment of pan this is a risky thing to do. And that's why most of the public figures never spoken around. They weren't willing me to pay the price, to lose the following, to get the hate, the sanction, possibly be arrested. So I said yes to speaking of this protest, and we couldn't publicize it and promote it early because if we did it or get arrested before the day in the carriage. So on the morning of the protest, not long before I had to leave home. It was one hour's drive away from my hungry I posted online and said, there's a protest it's going to be in this location. I'm going to be speaking, and I got in the current I drove, and let me tell you, on the inside, like a washing machine, I was churning journey. The states weren't even that high. And yet I reflect on it now because I now know how bad it got, and I'm like, how ridiculous to be worried about that one, given that there were rubber bullets flying and armored cars in the streets and you had to dodge horses being changed through. You know, like given that where we got to, people are being hospitalized and all kinds of horrific ways. You know. The very first person to get shot with a rubber bullets a friend of mine, Matt Lawson. He lost four internal organs because of the blood forced ll much that just liquefies the cells and then they start to die. And you know, like we got to that point. So I look back at how nervous I was about that first one, and I kind of have to laugh at myself a little bit. But at the time that was a really big decision. And I was white in the sense of my life was never on the same So I churned and I churned, and I drive and I plant, and I see the part where we were going to have us outbro out of it was a little little rat, not even a problem. And this protest in Australia, we don't mean burning fildwn in this mession windows. We mean like a ramy, that's what we think. But the police were already there. I'd seeing my Facebook posts and whatever else that anyone else had put up down and there was hardly anyone else there, and there were the police, and there was no off with yet. But the police were clearly you know, they're on their radios and they're clearly expecting more units to come. There were six of them already, they were expecting more. And I sat there, parked across the road. I hadn't been identified yet, love, and most of me was screaming delete the Facebook post, turn around and drive on. Yeah, I'm your wife. I had a son. We were expecting our second child at the time, and and like don't do this, like like, just just keep this we clean. But I knew that if I did that, then I would have proved to myself that I wasn't the person that stepped down, and I don't want to have to live with that for the rest of my life. So what I actually did was I called out my phone and I started a live stream into Facebook. And because everyone was locked down and I had anything better to do, and I was known as auld figure, so I started live streaming and bang, hundreds of people and a thousand people you know or more, all jump on very quickly. And so what I did was I told them, Okay, I'm parked across the road from the protest, I'm going to getting out of the car shortly, blah blah blah, giving you give, telling them what's going on. I'm actually I was stalling until that number hit a thousand, and once there were a thousand people watching. Internally, I was like, well, now if it turns out, if I'm about to find out that I'm a comeld, and that was my big fear, Am I about to discover that I'm actually a count? And then the whole world's trying to know that we're Acount, and I kind of bullied myself into actually getting out of the car walking across the street, like walking into that protest. And by the time I got home, so the police actually they didn't know what's to doing this was this had never happened before. We were in totally uncharted territory, this level of human rights violation in Victoria where protesting is illegal, that had never happened before. So what they actually did was they said to us, listen, we're gonna come back at eleven o'clock and we're going to arrest anyone that's still here. We look at I watched in that's an hour away, you know, So what I just heard was we'd got to its ten fifty five. That's what I can and so that's what we did. And I gave a speech that day, and a couple of others did as well. There's about seventy people showdowne and I drove home and I looked in that mirror so many times, no way, I can't even tell you. Then I got home and I jumped on my Facebook page and discovered that livestream had been viewed over one hundred thousand times. So I had a garage of hate in my inbox and my emails. People found companies who I was associated with that I'd done work with. They started leaving one star reviews and general review bombing and to try and destroy their reputation. You know, this company works with Nazis. Where did they even come from? And that disease. Yeah, so that the hate campaign really came on strong, and then the love followed in the days that followed. It was this really interesting experience and I had people saying to me, I followed you for ten years because I thought you were excellent. I thought you did your research and you we understand and of this and that now I know you're just an attention seeking whatever. I'm like, well, hang on, what if you were right the first time? And I'm still doing the research and I'm still thinking things through and I'm still taking what I do very very seriously. So that was the beginning. And because that went so violent, I was canapulted from you know, minor public figure obscewer, sort of my own niche kind of thing, reathing into the public consciousness and and things really went crazy after that. I would imagine when we'll get into that, I've actually I interviewed a young lady from Australia that was also at the forefront of the COVID lockdown. That's what I was saying. I cannot recall her name from the life from here. So there there were a lot of amazing people. Let me try. Monica Smith said she did she go to prison for a while. Yes, so that would been Monica Smith. She did. I believe it was twenty one days in solitary confinance. That's the one. Yes, she's amazing. She's a friend of mine. Yeah, okay, excellent. Yeah, so I did hear a little bit. You know, I haven't read our senior documentary yet, but I do know some of what's going on. But even with that, I mean, some of the things you're telling me are just shocking and horrifying. And we thought we had a band in the United States, and to be fair, if you were in the wrong place, you did. What I don't want to do is be seen to be minimizing other people's experiences, because other people's experiences of lockdowns were also very, very bad for them in their own ways. You know, we saw footage coming out of California with they were using paintball guns to kind of just people on their balcony, just yes, you know, that's a horrific thing to have happened in your neighborhood, and the fact that it was worth somewhere else doesn't diminish that for those people. But what I think I'd love for people to understand is take what happened here, take the worst of what happened to here, make it statewide, four and a half million people in the city of Melbourne, six and a half in a million in the state of Victoria, and make it go along for over five hundred and seventy days. Now, it wasn't exactly the same all the way through. It varied and there were moments actually where it really did ease up, but never for long, and you always lived with the tension and the knowledge. Literally the premiere could come on the television at any moment in the time, and he did. Ob one example, Valentine's Day or February fourteenth is what it is in Australia. I don't know if it's the same. Yeah, the day before Valentine's Day there were a handful of cases. He would shut the state down for one case of pineavots in anywhere in the state, and there were a couple of cases that popped up and he shut down with basically zero note seven pm tonight, we're doing into lockdowns again. So everyone every business that had put out Valentine's Day events and taken bookings and taken prepayments, and all of the florists, absolutely everybody that had said, finally we get a moment, we have a moment to breathe. We can actually make some money, we can serve some coffees, we can serve some meals, we can cut some flowers. All of a sudden, all of that went to waste. And so what was meant to be a beautiful moment of relief actually became the foreign store for a lot of businesses. So even in the moments where we came out of lockdown, the tension was never for all. Now, you mentioned that you had a lot of feature and you know, I've experienced teatre myself and also for cover lockdowns and protests that I reorganized. But I would imagine you've also got some peat from Christians. Christians who would see things like we need to submit to government, because that's what it was small to us in Romans thirteen. Let me just I'm just dealing with a family. So my family is loving with me. It looks like I'm being rude, but my family are depending on me for some things, and there's been a miscommunication. Probably what I can I can press on that a little bit more while you answered that text message. But yeah, I did see from my own. Experiences the Christians will come after you if you dare to question or push back and discovering or. Let's all yeah, And this was this was very very evident my own past and of my church. So I've been going to for a number of years. By then I had a very good relationship with him and his wife and the team. My own pastor refused to continue worshiping, so he obeyed the lockdowns. Now just as a matter of principle, And you know, his argument was, our lives are all day, just as a matter of principle. Let's say it was the Black Death. Let's say genuinely one third to one half of everyone's going to build because of this thing. Isn't that all the more reason to throw the church at alls open. That's what the church did during the Black leg and and and put the speakers on the steps and practice stereo to eleven and say, come in, all you who are sinful for the keeping of heaven might be closer than you think. You know, you know you're a judgment. They might be. So then you think that's what someone who believes they have the keys to salvation does when when mortal life is threatened and absent, we get busy about eternal life. If you take a moment like that. Where fear was everywhere and people were looking for hope and every back was turned, mental health counselors were booked out for months and you had to meet them online. You couldn't talk to you an MPs, You couldn't talk to your family, you couldn't visit each other, You couldn't see any of your people. All your sports are locked down at all your bars and clubs and clubs are lockdown, and you can't do any of the things that might normally otherwise have helped you to cope with a circumstance like this. And you're looking for somebody who has some kind of hope, where is it different? And you live at the church and the door is locked, and there's a sign that says go talk to central and go talk to the government, gets and get a welfare check if. You need something. What are we saying in that line? I think it is genuinely one of the most shameful chapters. God gave us an opportunity to show the world that we are different because we have hope. And what we said to them was we're no different. We don't have any hope. You need to go and seek your salvation from the government. And what a travesty. Now, I will say the silver lighting is this God's given us that as an opportunity now for us to learn fault. And we know that some people stood tall, and they should be grateful to God that they had the insight and the wisdom and the theology to stand toward. During that time, there are some people that showed themselves to be complete cholnces, and now we know we know who they are. There were others who genuinely thought they were doing the right thing, but they got it wrong, and they have a chance to learn from that, to humble themselves and to say, Okay, I now understand this in a way that I didn't before in it and I'll do it different, under it better my own plaster, I challenged him. I said, this is exactly the name. When we need to be opening, need to be worshiping, we need to be live streaming, we need to be showing that there is light, there is hope. We need to be a city on the hill. And he said to me, I can't do what we want me to do because if I do that, then the government will pull the funding from the Sopper academy that we run for migrants. I said, you know, I haven't. I thought I'd remain entire Bible, but obviously I haven't. I didn't get to that verse and said go into all the world and run Sopper academies for migrants. I didn't that that verse must have slipped. And so, needless to say, it was very evident from them that we weren't. We weren't going to get along really well. And so that but that was the attitude of a lot of church. And I think about that principle that we can't serve God money with it and money and what we saw the church do so many churches because they've got childcare centers that you know, government grants for these different things. They that they clung to the money and they despised it going. And that is something which if you're a pastor and you're an elder, and your church did that. Can I encourage you to not be in the intransigent category that that that is irredeemably corrupted and idologists and worship of government and instead of being in a humble category that says, you know what, we made some mistakes and we've got some things wrong, but we're going to go back to God. We're going to go back to our scripture, and we're going to get ourselves right with God so that the next time we get tested. You pass, I mean, and end to that and you ultimately ended up writing two books on this very subject. I love that you and I were talking of camera and you know, the pable has just filled the story of the story of the story. But all these heroes of the Bible, people that we imagine may be awake. Yeah, yeah, that's. Kind of that testing and being a coward or night. But all of them they disobeyed the civil authority. And that's why the heroes of the faith. That's literally why. So it's Old Testament, it's New Testament, it's Early Church. You can go right through, but I want to touch on a couple of specificallys So this second book of mine was born out of my first book. So after all the madness, after eighteen months of madness and people being beaten up in the hospital, life, I was arrested and I spent years fighting criminal charges before they dropped them and life went to you knowble. After eighteen months, we finally made the Victoria police back down. They actually they issued a public letter to the government and to the media on the same day saying we're not doing it anymore, we're enforcing the lockdowns anymore, we're not stopping protests anymore. That we're done where I am. And that was because we had kept coming back even as they escalated the device, so they'd put more of us in, we'd come back and with no protests, they put more of us in the host but they'd use heavier weapons, they would use all kinds of things. Thankfully no one was killed. We were at the point where I think they realized they were going to have to kill somebody in order to get us a stop, and even then there was no guarantee that we would have and they realized at that moment we were not. We can't do that, so they finally back down. The lockdowns ended by default. The government didn't declare the lockdowns over, they ended by default. And so I then directed a feature length documentary called Battleground and you can watch it for free. It's on the website tofa Field dot com. Just click on the documentary tag and can't watch it then and one fourteen film awards did very very well, including an award from the hands In Film Festival here at Freedomfest, which is where we are now. And one of the things I realized as I directed that documentary and obviously spoket to a lot of people, was we're very good at recognizing the righteousness of civil disobedience when it happened a few decades ago, you know, forty years ago, sixty years ago. We going oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But then when it happens in front of our face, there's this reflexive no, no, no, that that you have to do with me. Told no, you're being irresponsible, you're being whatever, You're creating trouble. Why are you pausing trouble? And so I wrote my first book, which is titled Good People Break Bad Laws, and it's a defensive civil disobedience in the modern context, but it also explores some of the reasons why it looks wrong in real time. And I'll give you one example that may upset a few of your utles because I'm going to use a little bit of language. Can't Australian. That's so fair. So one of the chapters in my book is titled in Defense of Arsenals. By definition, the person who speaks up first is an outliner. They're all weirdo and everyone else is sitting there goingo, and they're going ah, that person's a weirder. And if they're a weirdo in that thing, they've probably been a weirdo of all their life. They are probably temperamentally predisposed towards being controversial, saying the thing that you're not supposed to say, holding an opinion you're not supposed to Well, that probably means that they've got a history, They've got a backstory there, I've got a bit end. And what happens is when that person speaks up in something, that's what the media, the politicians, their opponents from there that can dredge up all that history. Oh you don't want to be associated with this girl, so right, and so I actually, you know, this is one of the things that I cover in my book. It's like, I'm sorry when you're when you're in this situation. If you think, if you think you're in a fight, but you're picky about who your analyzed are, then you're not really in a fight yet you don't know what it means to be as well. So okay, it's when you are desperate for another gun, no matter who is holding it, if they're pointing it in the right direction, then then welcome brother, you know, get alongside to mention it. When you become an enemy of the state, they're going to dig up everything they can about you and. And make and make up stuff as well. But I don't know about you, but I know that I'm an ractioned human being seed by Christ, That's right. Yeah, So yeah, they're going to dig stuff up about yeah. And so look, they didn't dig up anything on me specifically, but they dug up stuff on oposite to other people in the movement. And they were doing it to try and divide us, to try and make other people not be willing to join us. And we have to be willing and able to look past all of that. And so I was dealing with these very real, very practical kind of aspects of why is it that civil dissiprepence looks wrong in real time when it's so obviously right? Find sight. So that's that book. I've explored your political incentive, the perverse incentives of politics, and to do something reflects that politicians have where they just have to do something. It doesn't even matter if it's the right thing or if it even works, They just have to do something and so far. So I explored all of that, and then I got a lot of pushback from Christians saying, how dare you will call yourself a Christian in public and advocate for civil so be eaten? It's haven't you read Roman's chapter thirteen? Haven't you read First Peter Chapter two, verse thirteen, to which I replied, yes, And I've also read the rest of the book, have you? Because I get to Psalm ninety four, verse twenty, which says that wicked rulers cannot be allied with you, those who use the law to cause suffering. So, by definition, there is a form of wickedness that is done by the letter of the law. They can cross their teas and dot their eyes, but it is wickedness in the eyes of God. Now you know you mentioned before the heroes of the faith. Let's run through it to a couple of really hopeous ones. Daniel is probably demals talking about this. Now. I love Daniel because he doesn't just give us an example of civil disobedience. He gives us an example of civil disobinions done. He was not a rabbit browser He didn't run around him to and start a revolution to you know, blah blah against Darius and blah blah blah. It explicitly says that he went back into his chamber and he prayed as he had done before. This is so important because people said to me, listen, you can disobey the lockdowns and die that they don't have to be out there in public. Blah blah blah. So no, no, what to the appearance of putting the state government above God? Like no, you know, people say, oh, well, we're going to have a church meetings in Sycriy. That's better than not having church meetings at all. But you realize you still look like you are putting the civil authorities above God. That's the appearance. And Daniel's example was to not be a rebel rouser, to not be he didn't say I can't obey this law, so therefore I'm going to break all the news. He was a decent, upstanding citizen and he remained so. But he said, I will worship my dog. This is Caleb Collier with Church and State. Are you tired of your device spying on you? Ladies and gentlemen. We live in nineteen eighty four. Your phones, your tablets, your smart televisions, they all are spying on you. And this is why I heavily endorse Mark thirty seven dot com. This is everything you need for your digital privacy. Phones, tablets, laptops, all of them are ghost protocols, so that means that you are in charge of your own data. Just go to Church and State dot Media, scroll over to shop and hit Mark thirty seven dot com for all of your privacy needs. Make sure to use that promo code Church and State and we're back in THANKI saying with us. You're over at Church and State dot Medium. We're going to go right back to this great interview. But real quick, let me plug one of our awesome affiliates and Chris, I am thinking Patriot Pouch. It's a great company. Love this guy, Alexander Duncan. He's a Patriot, he's a Christian, and they have a great company that offers a nicotine alternative. And one of the really interesting things about this company is they're able to bypass some of these Blue states with their just outward disdain for nicotine, and nicotine is an interesting product, ladies and gentlemen. I'm not trying to force everybody who listens to the show to start using nicotine, but there is some health benefits associated with it. Well, a lot of those Blue states they make it to where you can't get flavored, you can't ship it into the state. It's kind of a mess. Patriot Pouch bypasses all of that. So if you are in one of these blue states like I am, this might be an alternative for you. It hits the same nicotine receptors in your brain, but it doesn't give you the spike in your blood pressure and heart rate. It's owned by a Christian, it's owned by a Patriot. Patriot Pouch USA dot com. Use that promo code Church and State when you do all of your shopping, and also, one more time, hit the donate button force keep us alive. Keep conversations like this when happening. Terry is upon us, It truly is. And I think independent voices, people who are unafraid of what might come at them, they're important to support. So please hit the donate button for us. All right, with that, let's go ahead and go back to the interview with toeferd Field. I hope you are enjoying it so far, Chris, go ahead. Daniel's example was to not be a rebel rouser, to not be He didn't say, I can't obey this law, so therefore I'm going to break all the news. He was a decent, upstanding citizen and he remained so. But he said I will worship my dog, and he did it as he had done before times. He didn't change, he didn't shut the shutdows, he didn't change the time of day, he didn't lover his voice. Everything was done as it was before. The simple statement was, my God is supreme over your rules. I'm going to do what my God requires going to do. And then when consequences followed, he accepted them with grace. And that's a really important principle we see time and again with Christian civil thiss obedience. So Daniel is the prime example in my view of not only sivil disobedience, but how it should be done. But there are so many other examples. Esther, when she's going to go before the king and ask him to save the lines of old the Jewish people, she says to her servant, go and instruct everyone in Susa to pray and to fast for three days, and I will do the same thing, and afterwards BI will go to the king. Even though it is against the law. That phrase is there in the Hebrew, and even though it is against the law, that is premeditative lord breaking. You get King David, before he was king, when he was on the running, he eats the show bread, the temple bread, because he and his men were starving. Now, not only was he not put to death because he was supposed to be. Not only was he not put to death when Jesus was pulled out by the Pharisees when his disciples had picked some mean and chewed on a sabbath, he sat on the sabbath. That's right. So they're saying, oh, you can't be a righteous man. Your followers are doing work on the sabbath. He pointed back to David eating the showbreadth as his justification for saying the Sabbath was not man, was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was meaning to man. And so Jesus actually used David's disobe two months the law by the way, yeah, okay, as his theological defense of what his own disciples had just done. And we can go up. But let's move to the New Testament for a second. Paul and Peter, who respectively wrote First Picture up to two verse thirteen and at Roeman's thirteen. So the word they use, the Greek word that they use both of them, they use the same word. It's it's super tassel. Now, what's interesting about hooper tasso is that it's not the strongest form of obeying, the strongest of obey his kuo similar word related meaning. But that's the one if you're if you're saying absolutely obey, you use hooper kuo. Now, the funny thing is they both used hooper kuo elsewhere in their writers. They know the word, they know it exists, they choose not to use it in those passages that we quote all the time talking about obeying the government. So they have made a choice. We are not talking about absolute obedience yet we're talking about something that is below absolute obedience. Now there's a couple of crucial things. Firstly, Peter, when when he was miraculously released from prison, which he was thrown in because he was disobeying the civil authorities by the way, he didn't then go and hand himself into the nearest cop shop. He went right back to doing the thing that locked him up. For when Saul became poor, he had his Damascus wrote moment, and he found out that the Damascus authorities wanted to coming world with him. He lowered himself over the wall in a basket at night and he ran away. That is not deferring to civil authorities. So both of them, in how they lived, actually broke how we preach their own theology. So there's a disconnect here, and there's two disconnects. Number One, in the Greek language, it's not an absolutely obey. What it means is a be ordering, being standing, be respectful. It's what Daniel did, right, It's what it's what what they are instructing is what Daniel did, not absolute obedience, no matter what they tend me to do. But there's another crucial point in both of them. If you go through them there are. There is a purpose statement in both of them. So for God is not a terror to sorry for the government. For the King is not as terror. It's good cond to evil. So there's a purpose station in there. The King is meant to be whatching evil, do is and we're warding those who do good. I think it's I think it's first in chapter two, verse thirteen says the So the purpose of the obedience, I'd have to have to pull it up on the phone. That quite exactly. But the purpose of the obedience is for the sake of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and for the sake of doing good. And for the King is the Lord's minister, for the punishing of those who do be able in the good. That is a purpose statement. Now, so you have authority of your kids, but you don't have absolute authority. You can't sell them for right. There's also things you can't do. So God says you're in charge. You have authority. If you then turning, are right, I can do whatever I want. You are now stepping outside. Do you have any authority outside of the authority you would be given by God? No, of course not. So when God builds a purpose statement into a delegation of authority. That is a limit. He's saying, I have put the government in charge for this purpose, and if they step outside that purpose, well that's where something like someone when the fool twenty comes in, we could rulers cannot be your friends, and how do we define them? They use the Lord for suffer. Absolutely so is another lyricip I say it a lot on my show. Yeah, because you know the disciples, the apostles are directed by the government. Say you know, we're going to worship Caesar. We're we're going to be the laws. And the response is, we will be the commandments of God or the commandments of men. Yes, And it's very specific. It is I apologize against making sure if I mix up regarding lunch for the kids, and that's when you've got three young kids driveling and think that's a bit of a bit of a drama. And this is the point. We must obey God rather than man is in as much as possible, live in peace with all men. That is our default position. The thing is, we have governments today that are not making them it's a living peace with men. They are deliberately going out of their way to make sure you have to choose between obeying them were obeying God. In Australia, don't. I don't have any US example specifically, but in State of Victoria in Australia, if you if someone comes to you with gender confusion, as to think, all the change suppression practices ban and what they're trying to do is stop you from discouraging someone from getting a sex change. So if someone comes to you with gender dysphorium, you know, and that is simply a brain that's telling them they were born the wrong body. And there are people who genuinely have the experience of a brain that is like, no, you were born in the wrong body. Now that's a life and the devil. But they've had the experience of that. And if they come to you, you don't even have to be a pastor. If they come to you and you do anything other than a firm and encourage their progression towards surgery and hormones and everything else, then you have engaged and changed suppression. That is a crime. This is not a civil offense. This isn't a case of I'm going to sue you because you didn't accept my identity or what have you, it's the government is going to step in prosecute you criminally, even if the person you spoke with was happy. They don't. They don't have to want you to be prosecuted. In order for me to be prosecuted. The government just has to find out that you did it, and they can prosecute you and you can go to prison for that now to my knowledge, and no one's been prosecuted yet. But understand, you can now be a Christian in the state of Victoria. You're in Australia in the same rate that you can be a Christian China. You can call yourself a prison. You can shove to a building called the church. You can sing songs, you can read a book called the Bible, but the sermon's preached, the prayers that have prayed, the Bible that's read, it all has to contain the government approval. Theology borous. We're literally there now. Yeah. And in the United States is especially in more of these progressive steeds. In California has passed similars yeah to where yeah, if you do anything, if you I mean Canada, it's happening right now. You can reach that whose sexuality is a sain if you preach from Romans wind, yeah, you can be thrown into prison. Yep. Yeah, And so what we've got a situation. So I'd like to bring us back to second Samuel, Second sam First Samuel, second Sammy chap paid the passage where they come to Samuel and I say, we want to king. It's the chapter rate of one of the Samuels, like I can't remember at the top of my head. So the children of Israel have had the system of judges. Now, this is a system that God ordained for God could have designed any system of government that he wanted. He was He had a blank slate, and it was a representative government. Well, what's interesting was that it was represented it because the heads have founderies and so forthwards that have pushed up. It emerged out of their time in the wilderness when Moses was swamped and he couldn't keep up with judging. All the people wondering law that's right, actually advised it, yes, and then God sort of codified it and said, yes, this has my standard approval. But what God gave them was enough laws. If you could read it in less than three days, how long would it take to liddle laws in America own. I would never want to tackle endevorment. It's not possible, how perverse, that we have a system that says ignorance of the law has no excuse, and yet ignorance is inevident. It's not possible to be anything other than ignorant when you have this many laws. Plus you'd have to know all we the court precedents to know how they're all interpreted. Plus you need to know all of the regulatory findings and everything else. It's impossible to not be ignorant. Now, I put it to you, that is an inherent perverse and inherently evil system of law and system of government. That's not what God design. What God said was, he's enough laws you can read him in about three days or less. And here is a system of judges to arbitrate disputes between you and when someone's accusing somebody else of having broken my laws. And noticed there was no mechanism for writing war laws. So God was saying, these are all the law you need, and these are all the laws you're ever going to need. You don't need to write all lords, you don't need the ability to do that. I'm not building that into your system. Now, of course the children is wrong. You better. So four hundred and something years later they go to Samuel, we want a king. Now the problem was real. The problem was perverse judges and Samuel's two sons Droid perverse judges taking bribes and engage in all sorts of licenses. But instead of going back to God and saying, God, we've sinned and we've ended up with unholy, unrighteous judges because it's one of the punishments of sins and you get ruled by wickedness, instead of doing that, they said, God, your system's gold Your systems well, we've got a better idea. We're going to copy what all the other nations are doing. We want a king such as the other nations, and they were specifically explicitly referencing the surrounding countries. Now. God's response when Samuel comes to him is what's crucial here? God says to Samuel, this is the son of the sin that their ancestor is committed in the wilderness when they made golden cords and worshiped them. That's idolatry right now. I grew up in Sunday school and I used to think, you know, God, we probably don't need all ten commanders. One seems a bit in these days, this whole bounding down TODs thing. Maybe they needed that one hundred and two hundred five grand years it. Maybe they need that in parts of Asia or something. Now. I don't know, but in the Western world, in a sophisticated civilized country that we have, we don't have idolatry. You can probably just cut it down to nine commandments a little bit easier to remember. I've grown up since then, thoughts, and I realized now idolatry wouldn't have to be one of the number one sins at a cultural level, and regrettably in a lot of our churches as well, and our idolatry today takes the exact same form as what God called out in that passage in Samuel. It is the worst of government. It's saying God will not supply all my needs. God won't protect me. Think of the jehovah Ahs, Jehovah, Jeavra, Jehovah Nissi, Jovidh's Kanaan, Jehovah Rauffer, et cetera. Every single one of them is a porous. I will provide for you, I will meet your needs. I will defend you, you will take refuge in me. I will give you wisdom, I will give you justice. These are all promises that gives us. What are the things we look to government for now? All of those exact sames and more and well and more. That's exactly right, but all of those exact things that God promised us. And so what happened was the children of Israel said, God, we don't actually trust you. We think we've got a better idea. We want a king to do these things for us. He's going to go out and lead us into battle. Who did God say he was going to lead them into battle? And now what happens is God then says to the children of Israel. Oh, he says to Samuel, warn the children of Israel that this is what the king who will rule over. He's going to take a tenth of your brain, attend if you're wine, attent, if you're oil, and you know, he's going to take your kids to be pat bakers and perfumers, and they're going to be in his military as chariots. And ten percent of this and ten percent of that pint you yourselves will be koind of his slaves. Now, what's crucial here I believe is God is equating ten percent of slavery. Now it is a little bit of a long gone and draw people will read the past and be like, yeah, it's not a direct connection, Like I see where you're going with that. But I think he meant that that would become like, actually slaves, I percent at the time slaves. I disagree on this basis. When God said to the children of Israel, you're my people, and that you're my people, you're going to give me complete slavery? What did he asked for? So if God says ten percent is enough to prove that you are my people, and then he says that king's going to take ten percent, you're going to use slaves. Now, isn't it funny that today we will give anything to be down to only ten percent? All right, So what we've created is a monster today. Now what God was saying, Now, God was saying, the king take ten percent of this tempercent? Who gives the impress? Where did that meat come from, the oil come from? This is God's bounty. This is God who has caused the harvest. And so what God is saying, in my view, and if I can paraphrase the word of God. So obviously test this with your own spirit, and you know, don't just take my way. But I would summarize this entire concept as the government, the idol that you are building with your own hands, will take from you the gifts that I've given to you, made for you with my hands. And the boy we see that today, we see. That once again and more and and just diving into this a little bit more, not just government, because we now worship church leaders as well. They become an able for us as well. It's not so much of I believe in the Living God. It's I followed Joel Stein or follow Rick Warren, and most of them are a fake, factless leaders. Look, I'm not really across the American landscape, if I'm honest, So I'm not going to make any particular comments of any specific people except to say that you need to be very very careful. Was It's all well explicitly, you know, this one says I am of Peter, and this one says I am of Apollos, and this one says I am of whatever. Be very careful, be very very careful. The one thing that Jesus told us to be proud of, to be to be boastful of is that our names are written in the book of life. When when the disciples came back to Jesus, after Jesus and hour that is sent them out, and he said to them, you can speak to devils in the bay. You can speak to the signing of it. He'll They go out and it works, and it happens. They come back super pumped, super excited. Jesus, do you know the thing you said it actually happens, is like you're yeah kidding, And he says, don't be excited that the devils are made here. Be excited that your name is recondarded, all right, And so this is the call that we have to come back to every single time. And if you're getting excited because that man's ministry is leading to humans, okay, that's fantastic, but it's not the man, right that that man's ministry has got incredible inside and wisdom and you've got to just follow him. Only he's the only one with it. World holder. Now, we've got a problem with jesus instructions to us, and we've got a problem with Paul's instructions to us. And if that person is accepting and welcoming that kind of hero worship in the context of being a pastor or a Bible tincture or anything else, then I don't think they themselves are actually pressed a singular scripture teachers with regard to that kind of humility is so we do. We need to be decerning. We need to be careful. God does use individuals. He raises up people to do remarkable and great things, and we shouldn't honor that, you know, the labor it is worthy of his high o. The man of God should be respected. Of course, I'm not advocating for anything less than respect. We're we need to be very careful that our heart is focused on God and our faithless place in Jesus Christ. I think that's so well said in a great way. I know we've got to be cognis of the time. Excuse me, but I think it's a great way there in the interview. And I so appreciate you coming on Church and State. I want my followers to follow you the website once again, ya tota field dot com and just go to the documentary tachic and watch my documentary with aplitey for free, and then at tota Field on all my socials. I put out videos pretty regularly. I'm mostly Australian focused political commentator, so a lot of it's going to be kind of like I don't know what's going on here, But I am branching out more on on a nine week speaking two of the US, and the entire point is to begin to speak more into the US for bettle or of verse. The US does lead the world in a lot of ways, and so fighting for Australia is a bit of an uphill battle when you're downstream of another culture. So I'm trying to get myself into the American context a lot more. And I don't really want to be in the reads of the minuture of politics. I'll let Americans deal with what happened in the news today and all their headlines and the clickbait and all of that. I want to be getting into the real meat of things, the principles of what actually changes history, and that, of course is number one job Jesus frites herself. But number two it's then how that then flows into a cultured, into our attitudes, into our economics, into things like civil disobedience and and how we respond when government does over step its boundaries. That's the level of which I want to claim and speaking, and I'm really grateful to you for sharing your platform with them to do that. Yeah, and honestly, like with the emphasis on Australia, you know, it was bad in the United States, but it was much morse in Australia. It was the canary in the coal mine. And I guess the last question I have for you here is personally, I don't think they're done. I think they saw the tyranny they were able to enact through this pandemic. I think they're going to come back with another. So I think it's going to be done a little differently in Australia. If they would have turned around now and try and do another partial lockdown Australians to do, we're not. We're not. We're not playing that game. I think what they're trying to accomplish is an effective lockdown through cost of living. So you will you will diminish your life, not because they till you couldn't lean your hands, but because you run the numbers that I kind of feeled to drive to X Y. Z entering and that enters into the fifteen minute city. Correct, And if so, it won't necessarily be I bought it. I think they've realized that that game's kind of up. People have kind of woken up to that. And so if they just can just keep driving cost of living out of control, people will diminish their own laves, and they won't actually have to bring in rules necessarily a polished what they want. It makes sense. And if it costs, you know, gases twenty dollars a gallon or something, you're not going to Grandmars at the next down. Correct. And then if they do decide to actually enact it and to enforce it and putting cameras and limits and so forth, they can then portray it as level in the playing field. Well, this doesn't affect you, because you're too poor to drive that far anyway, it's just th rich people that aren't doing the right thing, like what you is. We're correct, We're just we're just leveling the playing field so that the fact that they've got money doesn't mean that they have an unfair advantage and they get to live in a way that Now, that's that, I think is how that the next sort of play is going to come at it. I think it has already started in a very real sense. But we also have to remember that God is sovereign and he wins in the end. And I don't say that with a fatalism. Some people say that with the fatalism of oh well, let's just not bother because Jesus wits in the end. We are called Our calling stands regardless of what you think about anytimes theology, regardless of how long you think it's going to before something or other happens. We have a great commission and we are instructed to raise godly children and to raise up generations to make this cycles of all men. Those those truths, those that commission applies no matter what. And so I encourage you don't get too brought up in the minutia. Don't blackpel yourself with despair thinking that everything's going to be terrible and bad and the mysterious. They have already won. They already knew what was going to happen. They you know, one last thing, one of the things that annoys me. And it annoys me especially now because as I'm beginning to get some traction in my work, there are people who used to support my work and now that they're turning because they say, oh, they wouldn't have let him get so big unless he's sold out. Yeah, And so this attitude of that they and this belief that they have everything under control, means that nothing good can ever happen to you, right Because the minute something good happens in your movement, someone gets some breakthrough, someone gets some traction fault, you ostracize the amount of your movement. You condemn them as the animal. Irrespective of whether it's true or not. You've just got this preconceived notion that I think good will ever happen, and therefore if it does, we have to lost or size that person because there's be something bad about what they've done. God is good. God wins in the end, and that doesn't mean that we're going to be losing, losing, losing, losing, losing all the way up until that happens. We have a call. We have a God who is mighty. And if the Lord builds the house, they labored, If unless they builds the house, they laboring in the build up. So if you're not working with God, you're wasting the time. But also, if God be for us, none can stand against us. And from the bigger picture, from the eternal picture, from God's perspective, Here's a giver of good gifts, and it's not every gift looks not every gift that looks good from eternity looks good within the times. What's the name of the author of amazing ves? You guys be screaming the name and I'm forgetting it. But the story is absolutely incredible. Correct. So his story was his mother taught him about God until he was just about to have his seventh birthday. Then she died I believe in tuberculosis. Then he ended up in basically a godless home and ended up moving into the navy at eleven or into this areas sailor at eleven, ended up working on a slave ship, became a particularly brutal, merciless slave trader, to the point that he was abandoned I believe in Africa somewhere Aha, And they tried to sell him into slavery in Africa, and he managed to get out of that, and he got on somebody else's shiping say things moment they were nearly ship raged, and he cried out to God. In that moment, he remembered what his mom taught him, and he cried out to God in that moment, and he went on to write the himn Amazing Grace. Now imagine ev angel visits his moment when she's practicant, says, I have some amazing news your son. He is going to be an incredibly famous hymn writer, And for hundreds of years after his death, people would see his hymn in moments of crisis, from the depths of despair, when they're locked up in a prison, when they're lost in a jungle, they will find hope in that hymn, and thousands, maybe hundreds of thounds, maybe millions of people will be saved over hundreds of years because of the hymn of your son, Rints, would you like that to be the story of your son? Yes, you know. Here, I am your faithful servant, of course. Okay. The fine print, the fine print is in order to make that happen, in order for him to reach a depth of despair so deep that he will write a hymn that powerful, he has to become a man so unimaginably evil, And that means I can't let you be his mum because you're bringing him up too well. So I'm going to have to take you home early so that your son falls into despair and sin and crime and becomes one of the most despicable human beings imaginable, responsible for the deaths of innocent people. And then I'm going to nearly kill him, and then all that good stuff will happen, but you won't be able to see anything. Now does that make God a bad God? Is that a bad gift? From a human perspective? I guarantee you her husband when she's dying and their child is not even seventy years old, her husband is prying, saying, God, why are you doing this to me? How could you pose me to suffer like this? Why? And God's in heaven going night. I wish you could see it from one point of views, that was a good gift. So, guys, what have you gone through? God is good, He's got good gifts. Fingering trust his eternal perspective instantly, that's an incredible word of encourage me. I really appreciate you sharing that with the audience. Thank you to for real appreciation. All Right, there you go, ladies and gentlemen, Toverfield an amazing Australian patriot. I think this episode serves as a warning really throughout the world because As I've said on the show multiple times, I do believe that they'll do another pandemic on us. They were able to achieve far too much tyranny to not come at us again with something similar, And it's really going to be up to us. It's going to be up to us people who are pay patriots who love freedom, on whether or not we're going to submit to another lockdown like this. I, for one, I never will, obviously tofer my guest won't either. Church and State is brought to. You in part by colonialized Spokane Independent Agents, Finders Insurance, and a Mark three seven dot com. I'm Caleb Collier. I was born for a storm. Welcome to the fire. Hey, this is Caleb Collier with the Church and State podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, I want all of you to go to Galileo dot com. 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