Matter of Facts: Martial Law

Welcome back to the Matter of Facts podcast on the Prepper Broadcasting Network. We talk prepping, guns, politics every week on iTunes, Ditcher, and Spotify. Go check out our content at mwefpodcast dot com. On Facebook or Instagram. You can support us be a Patreon or by checking out our affiliate partners. I'm your host, Phil Raveley Andrew Nickar on the other side of the mic, and here's your show. Welcome back to Matter of Facts podcast, the least professional podcast on the Internet. I am going to make sure we do the admin work this time, because we I think boogered it up last show or the show before. Definitely at least one of those. I mean, we booger it up every now and then we get I find that it tends to happen when there's whiskey involved. When that happens, this show goes off the rails really quickly. Yeah yeah, whiskey with dinner and then whiskey with the podcast definitely does not conducive to doing admin work. Why there's coffee in the cup and no booze, just coffee. Anyway, If you'd like to become a patron, you can help help promote bad decisions by becoming a patron. This topic was inspired, demanded, and researched by a patron who I'm gonna call grandpa because it'll annoy him slightly fair. I mean, he's literally old enough to be my grandfather. He can't be that mad about me calling him grandpa. True. No, No, he's not olden to be my grandpa. He's oldened to be my dad. Ah, I'm forty three, he's not that old. Eh. Gunness Book a World Record says yes. No, I don't even want to go down the road of explaining how that's possible, so. Let's just leave that be. If you don't want to be a patron, you can still buy merch for the Vibes from Southern Gales, supports small business and supports the podcast. And if you don't want to do either of those, you can still prevent wark invent new ones with coffee from Disaster Coffee. Use code MOF or I will personally individually harass you about paying full price. You know, if you order it through the subscription for three months in a row, Phil will finally remember not to harass you about using the discount code you can't use. Or if you do like Stewart and say, I refuse to use discount code because I want to pay for it full freight, and you do that often enough, I eventually just relent and allow it. That's true. But you know, Okay, the topic is martial law, but that's going to come at the end of a couple of things that have popped up recently, the first of which is my nerdy bull crap. Nerdy bull crap is very important. It's a cornerstone of this podcast. It is. It is. So we were talking not too long ago, and for those who listen to this in audio, you'll just have to take my word on it. There's a spreadsheet. There's an excerpt from a spreadsheet up on the screen. But we were talking when we were talking about reloading, about the fact that, like when I first started reloading precision rounds, I was like adjusting my seating stem a lot, and I was tweaking things. I was trying to get my overall length perfect all throughout my run. And then it came to my attention by measuring the bullets that there was a variance in the bullet itself, and that was what I was chasing. So I set the seating stem and I just load a batch and let that be that. But recently I started having this debate with myself about how much is the dimension changing between the datam line where the dye touches the bullet and the tip and that same point and the base of the bullet. Because from that point where the dye touches the bullet to the base, that has an influence on pressure and thereby velocity. And. Where the datam line is usually pretty close to the odive where it contacts the land, so that should be at about the same height no matter what. So your lead and your jump and everything isn't changing much. And the only thing it. Really gets changed by that difference between the datam line and the tip is like the ballistic coefficient. And that's why really really really nerdy guys that do F class and PRC they tip their bullets and they do lots of weird voodoo and black magic to make sure all the bcs are exactly the same. I, however, approached this from the point of I can only shoot so well, I'm shooting this out of a rat grade AR fifteen gas gun, so there's no possible chance that tipping the bullets and everything else is going to have enough of a difference in this barrel with my shooting skill to be noticeable. That's probably fair. But I still wanted to do it for the vibes and for the information. So what I did was I pulled ten seventy seven grands here in match kings out of a box, and I weighed every last one of them, which, surprise, surprise, they varied from seventy seven point zero grains to seventy seven point one grains, so you know, very nice and consistent. And then I measured from the tip to the base of the bullet, and so I have to explain this some kind of way. I used the seating stem of the die like a fixture to measure from the head line where it contacts the bullet, back to the base, and I just subtracted the length of the seating stem. Follow me, yep. And what I determined through all this nerdy bull crap is that the extreme spread that you can see here was point zero zero eight of an inch from the longs to the shortest bullet, but measuring from the datum line back to the base was only point zero zero three, so less than half of the variants and if you think about proportionally the amount of the bullet we're measuring, that means that less than half of the variants was seventy five percent of the length of the bullet, and most of the variants is concentrated in that little narrow area between the datam line and the tip. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, given hell the formed that that's kind of where you're gonna have your most error because they're formed kind of from the bottom up, wrapping around the lead core. Anyway, Yeah, the exact opposite of what an FMJ is, where it's formed from tip down to base exactly. But this also got in my head to do the exact do the exact same thing with a bunch of fifty five grain hornity fmjs, because those are formed tip to base, right, And I came up with the same trend with much larger numbers. So those bulk hornity bullets had extreme spread of point seven GRAINSKA had almost double the variance in length for a much shorter bullet and had but still had about half the variance between the datum line and the and the base. Well, you know that that's interesting. It is interesting when you think about the fact that the tip is what's formed first, and the what would be the outside of that that jacket forms around the bottom of the base. And yet dimensionally we're still seeing a much tighter tolerance in the part that impacts the pressure of that round. That makes sense from a manufacturing tolerance and safety perspective. I mean, that's the critical point. So that's where your quality checks are going to be. That's where your controls are going to be the tightest. Now, clearly you see a very big difference between the premium or semi premium, depending on how you consider Cierra matchkings compared to bulk like a rack grade bullet, quite considerable difference in them. I mean, that's that's really what you're paying for, is that increased quality control, because every every zero you add after your decimal point for quality control increases the price dramatically. Yeah, I mean, it really is one of those things where like tolerance or tolerances or tolerances for a reason, and those reasons are not always is because you have to have tolerance in order for things to like move together, because if the tolerance with zero, things don't like to move very much. Well. But the other problem is just manufacturing costs. Like if you hold a tolerance to like a thousandth of an inch when ten or fifty thousands of an inch is plenty tight enough, all you're doing is raising costs at that point. I mean you do it entirely depends on what you're trying to do. I mean, with stamping, these are a combination of a swedge formed and then swedge applied to a lead core. Most of the time anymore with modern jacketed bullets, whether it be fmj's or whether it be like Sierra Matchkin type bullets, so do you do also have to account for where in those dies as everything is formed together, and temperature difference to some extent in those dies. The beginning of the run is going to be ever so slightly different than the end of the run, because once everything's warmed up, metal expands as it you're going to tighten down those tolerances a little bit. Yeah, but all nerdy bull crap aside. The point of all this was to demonstrate for myself and for anybody that gives a dam that really and truly, with the exception like, the only application I could see here would be if you wanted to measure if you want to go through this exercise with a bunch of your bullets so that you can cull out the ones that are like in the middle of your range, and then you use those to set your dies. Sure, but once you go through that exercise, you're not fooling around with the seating depth of those bullets, because the variance you'd be chasing is largely irrelevant at that point. Unless for most shooters, I would agree with that. Unless you are literally trying to make the difference between like point one five them away and point one four to. Five yeah, or if you're shooting, say extreme long range for that caliber, where where your ballistic coefficient is going to have a phenomenal impact because it'll have more time and distance to have that impact. But for the average person, simply simply upgrading from a bulk FMJ to a true match bullet, like we demonstrated here loud and clear, the simple change from a bulk bullet to something like a Serira matchkining, you're already getting a much more consistent bullet, a much more consistent ballistico fish, and a much much more consistent weight of the projectile YEA, and that will. Largely be down to the thickness of the copper. Yeah. Now, truthfully, you're paying probably twice as much per bullet. Sure, but if your goal is to have the most accurate ammunition possible, that seems like a reasonable trade. I mean, if you're talking about half the tolerance or less twice, the price is really not out of line for manufacturing. I can all day throw a part in my machine, barely check anything, and I can hit a fractional tolerance for weeks. As long as the cutter still exists, it's in tolerance. Because a fractional tolerance is something like sixty thousands on any dimension. That's a lot. By the time you get down to five thoul, now you've got to check most dimensions. Time you get down to one thoul, you are checking every single dimension every single time, unless you're grinding. Hmmm, questions. Questions. Stuart's saying, I have some kind of a data stream issue. I did notice things stumbled on my side, just for a split second. But then maybe it'll maybe it'll be okay. I'm going to politely agree and discree with Stewart. So it depends on the projectionile match bullets or okay, acre Matchking an open tip match bullet. The jacket is formed from the base to the tip YEP four and fmj typically definitely for the hornities, it's formed from tip to base, and you can very clearly see that when you have the bullets in your hand because on the match king the bottom is like a continuous sheet of that brass or of that that copper, and then on the on the hornity you can see lead in the in the base. So like it's Stuart's not wrong, he's he's rarely wrong. I just don't like committing it because it's annoying doctor, scary guy, blah blah. The good thing is I can download and listen at my leisure. That is the good thing about this stream, which I love doing because I get to talk to you all while we're talking. But we also still honor the original format, which is that audio podcast, which is still available just about anywhere you can listen to an audio podcast, because quite frankly, I still listen to podcasts, and a lot of people still listen to podcasts. It's easier at work well with YouTube not allowing you to play with the screen black. I am forced to admit though, and like this is not shade on anybody. But like the audio podcast market has shrunk a lot over the years. Well, I think the competition has grown more than the market is shrunk. Yes and no, so total sidebar. But part of the problem is it's not. Yes, there's more competition and there's a lot more really high production value podcasts in the mix which are kind of siphoning away a lot of listeners. Oh yeah, and rightly so they put a lot of effort in. Yeah. But the other problem is just that like there are just I feel like the audio podcast have really taken a large backseat to like video. Streaming, like this could I mean it is more interactive for sure. A tenth anniversary episode it will be sometime in August. I would have to go and look up exactly what the day is. Yes, I will say this much. And I told Nick we are also closing in on five hundred episodes. Oops, like we're we're we're going to hit that this year. That's going to happen. Yes. The math maths. Jeff Jaggs got the million dollar question. Does the mass difference of the length variability counter the pressure differential caused by the seating depth? So here's the thing, what the what the math is alluding to to me is that the if we define, if we temporarily define seating depth not by the not by the tip where we're measuring when we can measure cart overall length, but we measure from the base of the bullet, because that's really what we're concerned about when we're talking about pressure. It's how how big is the how big is the pressure vessel, that is the cartridge from the bottom of the web to the bottom of the bullet, that that cylinder shape is how much how much volume we have to burn this powder and to make pressure, and the base of the bullet is not changing near as much Based on the measurements and everything I did as the over the difference in overall length would allude to. Well, here's the trouble. We don't necessarily know that the heavier projectile has a longer overall length and is seated deeper. It looked like it was from your chart. And if that is the case that the heavier bullet has a longer overall length in these instances, well. When you say overall length, are we talking about the bullet or the cartridge? The overall length of the bullet which would then cause a deeper theoretical seating into the pressure vessel. So that middle column and both of those charge is the length of the bullet itself from tip to base right. So what I'm getting at is, in this sampling, that seems to be the trend we're seeing that you're gonna have slightly higher pressure. You're also gonna have slightly higher pressure because of a slightly heavier bullet because it's more inertia to overcome. Whether or not that compensates for the difference in the bullet weight giving you a similar velocity, we can't tell just from this chart. What you would have to do is you would have to very deliberately load ten rounds the exact same length with the exact same powder charge, with as close to identical bullet weights and overall lengths and seating depths as possible, comparing that to then bullets seated in the same die with the same powder charge of a slightly heavier and longer overall bullet, giving you a smaller pressure vessel, and then comparing the velocities and impact data on also chronograph. Also with the understanding that like the margin of error we're introducing with just the nature of burning powder the chronograph, I mean, your own ability to measure it's. Going to have a bigger difference, in my opinion, than what we're seeing in these bullets here. Yeah, and that that was really the end goal, was Stewart saying I'm still dropping packets. Might be on a Stewart tend because I'm not seeing that at all in our stream. But one more Stuart question. Then we're going to move to into the next topic. Five hundredth anniverse, five hundredth episode before tenth anniversary. So it's the end of April, yes, no, the end of it. It's the end of May. We're about to be in a June, July, August, so that's two and a half months. Two and a half months would be twelve ten, twelve episodes. We're going to hit the tenth anniversary, and then later in the year we'll hit five hundred episodes. Just like I said, I think we're at like four to seventy seven right now. Correct, Stuart. But I'm not seeing the dropping audio issues through my headset or the video of Phil's Phil's coverage. That's odd, I don't know, because it should be visible to me if it's visible to the audience from your end, I don't know, I mean theoretically. So onto a fun topic, Nick, where we're going to name our call. It's not a cult. It is not going to be a nominational. It is going to be a cult until the federal government acknowledges it, which they probably want, so it'll be a cult for a while. Look, Phil had a great idea, partially I assume, inspired by the Sikh religion that has gotten around the UK knife laws by making carrying knives part of their religion. Actually, I got the idea from the Mandalorian because I'm a gigantic star Wars. I thought you got the idea from the Sikhs because there's a whole deal going on with the Sikhs in the UK right now. I guess a Sikh guy stabbed another guy and it's turning into a hul kerfuffle Allah, black lives matter, riots and all that jazz fun. That's the UK. They'll be fiery, but mostly non shooty. So yeah, well, you know, I ten out of ten it's more fun to get stabbed than shot. I am being as sarcastic as I possibly can be. You know, I having met somebody that's had both occur to them. Their claim was being stabbed was more, was much worse than being shot. I've never been stabbed or shot, but I have seen extensive, extensive evidence of what happens to the human body in both instances, and I think I would rather roll the dice on being being shot. Well, as long as it's not in my dome or my testicles, like any like any any any other general like anywhere in the body shoulder extremity. Give me a bullet twice on and every you know, every day, and twice on Sunday. Please do not stab me. That does not look fun. Yeah, that's fair. Also, have you said, I mean, have you ever compared the scarring from gunshots versus stabs? Not really, it looks like it does a lot more damage to get stabbed, a lot loted. I think it's a caliber dependent. I think I don't want to be the test dummy. Agreed, it looks like a zero stars type of situation. But we we I had the idea. I was like, Nick, we need to start a religion in which one of the sacraments is that I get to carry a firearm everywhere I go. And then as soon as we get jammed up by the law, because that's going to happen. It's religious infringement. And and I want a court to tell me that my religious religious liberties shall be infringed because apparently the Constitution is not a good enough reason. Yeah, you know, I'm fairly certain. Oh yeah, Jeff, that is the exact story I'm referencing. A man was stabbed in the UK and he was arrested because the Sikh claimed the guy was being racist, and the cops let him bleed out on the ground. So UK cops suck pretty much all the time. They're arresting people for social media posts getting stabbed and bleeding out. That sucks. The riots that they're gonna have because of it also gonna suck pretty much sucks all the way around. But will they have riots, because. I mean, looking that way, they've already got like large assemblies of people in the Sikh community is kind of okaylating around this guy. The Sikhs will probably riot. I meant the Western Europeans because all the Western all the Western Europeans are really rioty. They shipped over here five hundred years ago. Yeah, but still you can only you can only push your average peaceful person so far. And I'm gonna be honest, the immigrants in Europe have been really pushing hard for a long goddamn time, refusing to assimilate and trying to take over Europe. When I available anymore, when my long law hung at hust ancestors, the French start pulling the guillotines out of mothball, I'll be impressed. Sure, definitely, I mean, I get that, but it doesn't go from zero to guillotines. We're starting to see protests and pushback in Europe, protests such weak sauce, but it's a start. They weren't doing that at all five or six years ago. About this, Why does Stuart always have to pee on my pee on my cheerios? I know I'll lose. It was supposed to be a half joke, Stuart. I wouldn't really. Bout the non taxable donations we could use to fight the inevitable legal battle with the county. Yeah, I mean, and let's let's call what it is. I am so mistrusting of organized religion. I am hardly going to go start one. It could be a disorganized religion. Record. It would be very disorganized. Leave it to Stewart to take my flippant joke too far and be like and start quoting freaking legally used to me. I know I would lose. This country is not prepared to have a discussion. This country won't even abide by the Constitution. It's founding documents for God's sakes. It's not going to you know, let religious liberty flies and excuse to carry guns wherever I want. Well, I think it definitely depends on your state that you try it in. I mean Illinois, that wouldn't fly at all. I don't think you can somehow get the Democrats to agree that you're a religious minority, in which case you're good. Yeah. I don't think that's gonna happen. I don't know. Rag was saying. The left would have pulled it already if it worked. I mean they kind of already did. They kind of already did. Yeah. All right, one more little one. Then we have to talk about martial law. Nick, What in the fuck happen in Kentucky? Their major metro areas gained enough voting power to override the rest of the state. Explain extrapol eight. Well, major metro areas tend to be left leaning. Once the major metro area areas gained enough political capital or political or political influence through voting or whatever else, they will vote for left leaning policies all oad of disarmament and various other things, and fuck the entire rest of the state. Illinois is a perfect example of this. Ever, look at like the voting maps by county for Illinois. Phil there's like six counties in Illinois that technically control our elections because they have like sixty percent of the population of the state. So Chicago and its Coller counties and then Springfield they control Illinois state politics. Regardless of how the rest of us vote. It's not physically possible for us to outvote those counties. So the major metro area's policies are carte blanche ruling the state. And that's what's beginning to happen Kentucky as well. So I guess here's the thing. Regardless of about anybody feels about Thomas Massey, he was one of the few politicians. Are you talking about that? Oh? I think you were talking about the the changes to some of the regulatory structure. Now, Thomas Massey was thrown under the bus by Trump. Yeah, that was directly funded by by Trump and his super packs to get rid of him. Yes, he did, Yes, Stewart, he did. Trump put thirty eight million dollars into making sure he would not get elected in the primary. Mm hmm. But here's the thing. For every one thing Massey voted that pissed off conservative, he also did things that I kind of approve of. Like he was the only one during the stupidity of COVID who was screaming bloody murder and tying up the house for saying, you idiots have to come back here and vote in person because the law says so. He was the only one who was throwing shade left, right, and center at the slush fund that was being created by COVID going into hospitals and insurance companies. He's been, He's been one of the loudest, most strident voices screaming release all the Epstein files, stop screwing around, let all let the public see all of it. He's been. If I recall correctly, he was one of the few that was also screaming about, hey, we should let all the voters know who in Congress had a sexual assault allegation that had to be paid out by this. Mystery slush fund. Yep. So it's one of those situations where, yeah, and Stewart just said it, he agrees with him eighty percent of time. Here's here's my issue. I have never, in my adult voting life, agreed with any politician one hundred percent of the time. I don't know that it's possible to agree one hundred percent of the time with any other adult. And I don't. I can't think of a politician that I would I've disagreed with one percent of the time. Even Nancy Pelosi. Hmm, that's a hard one, isn't it. She has ice cream though she's she's got a really badass stock portfolio. But that's not a voting issue. Nope, Well it is if you consider insider training a voting issue, which I do. Yeah, I will. I would have to dig hard into her voting history and see if there's anything I agree with. And fein Stein pulling out the big guns. Okay, but to be fair, she did say that getting shot sucked. I agree, getting shot probably does suck. There is that, so you know, there's one thing we agree on. But I guess my issue is at the end of the day. It's like I feel as though, okay, now, raggle you, now you're just being ugly. AOC is a very heartwarming story about how you can come from, you know, being a bar fly to being being a senator bartender. That's like a bartender. Okay, she had a job that everyone else ended. Now, nick embezzling money and screwing your constituents is a full time job in this country. I really don't think it is, because Pritzkert sure has a hell of a lot of time to do everything else as well. Well. Anyway, I might dignify that with a response with a response Stewart, but I don't know, like I feel like Kentucky really, I feel like Kentucky lost a little bit on this, and I feel like the country loss. I don't know. I don't know enough about his I don't know enough about the guy that did win the primary to make an educated statement on that, because no offense, I'm not in Kentucky, I'm not from Kentucky. I technically have no horse in this race, derby or otherwise. No. But the horse I have in this race is is that. I two things. A. I don't like the idea that you can buy an election, and when you throw this much money behind it and the primary tips that direction, it kind of feels that way. But to try to buy a presidential election recently by outspending all of the major competitors by least two acts, and he still failed. Guaranteed it wasn't just the money. But here's my other issue, and this might be the bigger one. Nick. You remember twenty twenty the election went a certain way. There was all of a sudden, for no explicable, explicable reason, an enormous uptick in Democrat voter voters more than had ever been longed before, numbers that numbers that were so lopsided some people elected. There might have been some some tom foolery going on at the voting. Well, we also had unprecedented numbers of mail in votes. So but here's the thing, The exact same thing just happened in Kentucky. The number of people that voted for Massi is damn there the same number that voted for him previously, and the number that voted for him against him was three and a half times what it was previously. Now that does someone, especially in a primary, that does raise some suspicions because primaries don't tend to be well attended by voters. In a primary in and off year exactly. So here's here's where I get frustrated. You know that my pet peeve is hypocrisy. Right, All the voices, all the talking heads in the conservative movement, all the talking heads on social media, have been fucking radio silent about this, this interesting little voting habit in Kentucky because they're kissing the ass of the Orange Republican probably and those same people screaming bloody murder. I didn't look that hard into it, but when I noticed that, I was like, hmmm, you know, it's interesting. And maybe perhaps it's the case that people in Kentucky are that fed up with Thomas Massey. And that's possible, and that's possible. But again, my issue is it doesn't the same voices, the same voices that screen bloody murder when it benefited Biden or being radio silent when it it torpedoes Massy. All I'm asking for is some intellectual consistency where if we're if if the issue is when the vote looks cooked cooked, we look into it and we make sure everything was done above board. But if we're just radio silent because the big tea man didn't like Massy. To me, that just that that that that just doesn't sit well with me. I would argue that because of how influential elections are in our system of government, we should be looking into every single election. It literally determines the path of the country into that as evidence as evidence by Virginia right now, that that would be an entire hour long episode to unpack all that freaking bowl crab. And we really need someone from Virginia to come on if they want to talk about that. If anybody knows anyone from Virginia that's politically involved in all that sent them our way. Yeah, even if they have to wear like a ballet clava and we we disguise her. Even if they disagree with us, I may okay with that. I love being disagreed with. That's why I talk to Stuart so often. Well, yeah, speaking of Stuart, he caused the next bit. Yes, so Stewart asked us to talk about martial law from our perspective and in and then you in a in a characteristic how I pronounce this word characteristically charitable moment, he prepped all the show notes for us too. He did, and we've ignored a considerable portion of them so far. Yes, there is that, but I did put into the notes. So I'm going to try not to read all this because we were supposed to do some research on this ahead of time. But I am in a crib from a lot of Stuart's notes because quite frankly, well thanks for calling me out, because I didn't study as much as I probably should have. I wouldn't call what I did studying. I verified separately his notes because the man is brilliant. He is, He's a very smart guy. But trust but verify. Yeah. So, martial law is the temporary substitution of military authority for civilian government in response to a profound breakdown of public order, natural disaster, or a military invasion. Keyword, it's. Substitution of military authority for civilian government. So that was I think one of the key things here, and it was one of the things that I'm really glad like we started off with a definition for that, because I feel like a lot of people don't think about martial law as what it really is. Like when people see like National guardsmen in the street, they think martial law, but it's not really the point it's not the National Guard in the street. It's who has final authority over the civilian populace. Is that the civilian courts? And then by extension law enforcement or in the absence of those things, is it now military and military tribunals, which is a very different yeah, for anybody, for any of us that have been subject to UCMJ in the past, Uniform Code of Military Justice. Like, I can tell you that military tribunals are very, very very different from a civilian court hearing. It's not so much beyond reasonable doubt as preponderance of evidence. Yeah, all right, when declared civilian courts, laws and civil liberties are suspended and the military commander wields supreme executive, legislative and judicial power over the domestic civilian population. So, in other words, with the exception of like you know, really weird times from about twenty twenty to about twenty twenty two, if if a you have certain rights that are inhailable that cannot be stripped away from you except by due process, and yeah, yeta yah. But if military law is due process. But if martial law has been declared and is actually in effect, whoever that military commander is can say to hell with your rights, You're going to do what I tell you to, or I'm gonna throw you in the stockade, and that literally is how that's going to work. Yeah, they're unfortunately or fortunately however you want to look at it. There there are situations where, because of the nature of the events, say during the Civil War Big one, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for a lot of the areas of the country and seize control of a lot of infrastructure in order to prosecute the war. I would argue the way he did it was very tyrannical and would make him a bad president. But he also did the whole fring of the slaves thing, which gets all of his arresting of journalists that publish bad press against him. Kind of whitewash. Is that away? That was exactly the phrase I was going to use, was whitewashing. It's you know, there's Roosevelt and Lincoln get a lot of passes on some pretty goddamn tyrannical things that they did under martial law or in the name of national security, which is why whenever I hear that phrase, I hear, oh no, it's just a little bit of tyranny. It's tyranny light. Yeah, it's just like it's the low calorie, less filling version of tyranny. Yeah. And I don't know, I really don't think they should get the pass they get. I mean, I don't think a lot of things. Yet here we are. Yeah, there's that all right. And there are three definitions we need to unpack real quick before we go too much further. And that was State of Emergency, Insurrection Act, and martial law. Now I'm gonna lump a couple of these things together because in both the state of Emergency and the Insurrection Act being declared, the civilian courts and civilian law enforcement are still in charge. You might have National Guard, you might have military, they might be supporting law enforcement, but you do not have martial law until the civilian courts and civilian law enforcement are no longer able to provide basic governmental functions. Which was something like we were talking about this a while ago, like I was. I actually had I had to look it up just to like sanity myself, because I had always remembered there's this big kerfuffle during Katrina where martial law got declared but was never made. Official declare bankruptcy. Yeah, but but the end that that is, in legal terms, that's what happened, Marshall, Like, the threshold from martial law was never met, despite the fact that there were no courts, and despite the. Fact you got you gotta see this one from Jeff low count Less feeling tyranny like common communism is. The full three course meal of tyranny. No, it's not. Everyone starves in communism, yes, but you get force fed extra tyranny. That's fair. You starve because it's it's empty calories, but you get force fed the tyranny. That's good, Jeff. Yeah. But like I said, like that's that's the thing of it is in spite of the fact that during Katrina, like you know, probably sixty to seventy per cent law enforcement abandoned the post and left the state, despite the fact that the Savine courts were not operating because large sections of the city were uninhabitable, despite the fact that local government was like operating from in some cases outside of the city limits. It was there was still government, there was still government chain of command, and the threshold from marshial law was not met. Therefore, we did not have martial law in New Orleans post Katrina, which kind of begged the question of, like, okay, if that, which is one of the worst disasters in this area in my lifetime, if that didn't meet the threshold for martial law, what the hell does. Do you want to talk about a disaster that that did call for that? Sure, Stewart gave his lots. He did. The eighteen seventy one Great Fire of Chicago, martial law was instituted for a few days in order to maintain order and prevent looting. Now, I don't know, I know a lot of you guys are not from my area. The Great Fire of Chicago destroyed like seventy percent of the city. Let me actually look up what the exact percentage was. If memory serves, it even burned the river. Seventeen thousand buildings were burned when third of Chicago's population was left homeless, and three hundred people abouts were killed due to a cow knocking over a lantern, Missus O'Leary's cow specifically. But it's interesting that they know that. Well, it's it's pretty easy to know because the o'leares survived and they reported their barn being on fire before anybody else reported anything. Being on fire, but due to drought conditions, high winds, the Chicago River didn't stop the fire because it was so full of trash at the time that the fire went across the river nice. And in fact, it's the reason for the Chicago skyline looking like it does now and the Chicago Roadway is being laid out how they are now because it was purpose built after the fire into a grid system. Yeah. So looking through the list of the rest of these disasters, and what I will probably do with Stuart's permission is I will try to clean this up, put it into like a Google doc, and I'll try to remember to post that on our on my Google Drive, and I'll just drop a link someplace so that everybody can get to it if they really wanted. Eighteen fourteen battled in New Orleans. Mm hmm. Marshal Lbice has declared because the British were coming. Eighteen forty two Rhode Island declared by the state authorities during the Door rebellion, which I think that might be closer to the point of like what does it take to trigger martial law, and that would be massive civil uprising that overwhelms the police and therefore the government's ability to do business. Here's the thing, though, I you were going to notice a pattern here. The earlier you go back in history of this country, the more often martial law was declared. And I think that a little bit of that, a little bit of that is technologically driven. Hmm. Explain okay, So Phil, when a hurricane hits the New Orleans area, what do you do? Well, Nick, if it's below a certain threshold, you buy beer and you sit at home until it stocks blown out. Talking about for your job you work for the government. Oh, for my job it is, and deploy somewhere else. We we deployed to an alternate work siting, right, you telecommute? Mm hmm, well no, we literally we literally. Miles way. But you are signing in remotely to do your job that you would normally do in the New Orleans area. Right. So, the ability for us and the government employees to work from a variety of locations and all the infrastructure we built up gives them a better ability to maintain civil law and order during these events than they could in say, the eighteen fifties, eighteen seventies. Okay, I see where you were going with that. When you meant technology. I honestly kind of wonder if part of what might be driving this is actually just sheer numbers in terms of police and the prevalence. I mean, post the post the Militia Act of nineteen whatever was the last time it was revised. You get the National Guard formalized, and budgets continue to expand for that, so now you can now you have this whole force of soldiers who can be called u to bolster a much larger law enforce and presence than what was around in the mid nineteenth century. That's fair. You do have a not a standing army, but a pseudo standing force you can deploy to do that low level policing and recovery efforts faster than having to get a militia together. Yeah, eighteen fifty seven Utah territory imposed during the Utah War ahead of advancing federal troops eighteen sixty one, declared by Lincoln. But declared by Bringham Young In Utah, the Mormons declared martial. Law eighteen seventy one fire we already talked about eighteen ninety two, enacted by the Governor's Crush Violent Riots nineteen hundred galson. It's recovery efforts against the hurricane. Yeah, which again I mean like I would have to look at that instance in particular. But like for those of you not from the Gulf Coast, are from Southeast Texas, like Galveston is basically a coastal town, and when they eat a Cat for Calf five hurricane and the teeth, it is like nuclear bomb going off levels of catastrophic. It's it's bad. Yeah, I would argue it's almost worse than like Katrina siteswiping New Orleans because at least then you've got x amount of like swamp and everything to try to take the steam out of it. But Galveston is literally right there on the beach. Yeah, You've got what sixty yards of beach, seventy yards of beach, and then you've got major high rises. Now yeah, as far like think of it like a CAT five hurricane hitting Biloxi or Gulfport, Mississippi, or Mobile, Alabama, where it's not only yeah, where it's not just on the coast, but it's heavily populated. Like it's one thing if like the Louisiana coastline gets hit by a major hurricane, because it sucks for the people that are down there that are in harm's way, but it's not major metropolitan area levels of population, so the number of people you have to evacuate or care for is much less. The resources are less. But that's the thing about a hurricane is usually you can flood resources into an area within a few days. As widespread as they are, it is a fairly. Localized Yeah, I mean, I half jokingly tell everybody that you know, like a Calf five hurricane is like an F three tornado that wipes out seven zip codes. That's not an inaccurate way to state it. For those of you who don't deal with hurricanes and deal with tornadoes instead, the damage compareson is similar. Well, I mean just in terms of wind speed. The wind speed of an F three tornado is just I have a Cat five hurricane. Yeah, and F four tornado puts its shame, but still. And don't even look at the damage profiles of a five. Now. But here's the thing, I F five, how much territory does it really wipe out? Sometimes be like, well, let's see, the Joplin tornado had a one and a half mile wide path of devastation, and I want to say it was one hundred and fifty miles wide something like that, mostly in farmland. But yeah, but the thing is the town it did hit was gone. Yeah, And as opposed to a Cat five hurricane, which is zip coat, like, yeah, I'm not exaggerating when I say it will wipe out seven zip codes like it will if you look at satellite imagery of major hurricanes and compared to the size of your state, except for Texas, because Texas is a weird situation when you start talking about how big a state is, But for any of the rest of y'all, when you realize that a capfive hurricane can swallow a third to a half of your state, you start to understand why down here we get a little nervous about hurricanes sometimes because it is it is a factor of like, if it goes here instead of here, your life's gonna suck. It's just not gonna suck as bad anyway. Nineteen oh three Disarmed Striking mine workers nineteen oh six, another natural disaster require Yeah, a couple more more striking miners that striking miners do seem to raise. Nine Serial twenty Striking miners and armed conflict between unionized unionizing miners and coal coal mine operators. Yeah, this one weird little thing here about nineteen thirty one East Texas and Oklahoma oil fields declared by the governors to force with shut down overproducing oil wells. Yeah. It was cratering, it was cratering oil prices, and it was causing economic problems in other areas. Yeah, it seems like a perfect use of. Martial law to force economic policy through the you know, in spite of the free market. Yeah. Well, you know, they they had very high producing oil wells, and if you shut oil wells down sometimes they can't be reopened at the same capacity. And so, yeah, they produced, and they sold, and they were willing to sell as cheap as they as they could because they produced so much, and that was causing economic problems in other places. So nineteen thirty four, more strikes, nineteen forty one, three years falling Pearl Harbor, that kind of well, I mean, okay, gabone was. Ruled unconstitutional though because of how long it was it lasted compared to the actual crisis. Yeah. Uh, I kind of want to I want to rush through the rest of these because I don't want to make this into any more of us lag. It already is sixty three declared by the governor during civil rights movement. All right, so I at least argued that the one in Cambridge was also unconstitutional. But that's my opinion. I don't think it should be declaring martial law to deal with protesters. So here, here's here's my issue. Yes, but they still got away with it. They weren't. Yes, well, yeah, you want to talk about getting away with things nineteen forty one. What happened to all the Japanese people in the US fill nineteen forty one to nineteen forty five? They were sent to summer camp. Nick. I believe it was a camp where they learned how to concentrate. Yes, they learned how to concentrate, very hard concentration. Yeah. Oddly enough, the same thing didn't happen to the Germans or to a German immigrants. No, it's almost like it was racially based and not based on the on the conflict. Oddly enough, it does kind of seem that way. Was it an FDR H I wasn't. I wasn't alive back then. Trial raggles. Should they have declared martial laws during the Kenosha riots? Again, the if the threshold is civilian law enforcement and courts are not operating, then by that standard, a lot of these other instance when Marsha law was declared shouldn't have been declared either. Well, okay, so Bill, I don't know how much you know about the coal mine strikes and the coal mine rights and and the quite literal battalions of men having gun fights at coal mines. If you're interested, if you'll, if you'll watch it I or listen to it. I actually listened to there's a podcast on the Martyr Made podcast did a whole thing about this instance you're talking about, very very. Interesting, something like the Battle of Blair Mountain, if I recall correctly, was two hundred and fifty or three hundred men in a shootout involving heavy machine gun in placements. I'm sorry, but your local police force probably can't deal with a company's PMC group because it was a private military contractor. It was the Pinkertons. Don't let anybody tell you it wasn't, and the Pinkertons are still around. The Pinkertons bought machine guns and decided to machine gun a bunch of women and children that instigated the Battle of Blair Mountain. Yeah, it wasn't a nice time. Oh god. Now I wonder if the pinkertons are any better now. I don't know what incentive do they have to be better? Cell phone cameras? No, Nick, what incentive do they have to be better? None? Thank you're just saying they can get caught easier with cell phone cameras, and just saying they get caught. They're the justice system like bad press. The justice system can be bought. That's obvious at this point. Yeah, that's very accurate. I mean you and I have had conversations about how how you fix extra legal problems. It involves extra legal things. Yeah, and I can't say anything else because I've been advised by my lawyer not to. And you know, fortunately or unfortunately, the legal system is paid to play one hundred and ten percent. If anyone is considering getting a patent, you better have a deep six figure legal fund. So I will so, I will say this much. I had a criminal justice professor in college who I thought was the biggest douche canoe on earth. He was this grumpy old man, his grid law enforcement officer who had basically, you know, screwed off to college to teach in his semi retirement, and he said something one time that pissed me off so bad because at the time I was young and idealistic, and I still believed that things work the way they're supposed to because it's the law. It's supposed to work that way, fair and impartial. In all that bull. Crap, he literally told me with a straight face that the rich get justice and the poor get prison. And at the time, at. The time, he's not twenty But hold on, don't beat me to the punchline, damn it, Nick, Twenty four year old Phil was still so firmly, like, wanted so badly to believe that he was just full of crap, or he was just like a grouchy old fart and he didn't know what he was talking about, or he was a crazy lefty lunatic or something, but that wasn't really how things worked, sir. If ever, you, if you are still out there and not in a hole in the ground, I owe you a fucking apology, you do, because twenty four year old Phil still wanted desperately to believe that what you were saying was just talking out of your friggin' rectum. Oh my God. It took a while, but I caught on it. Just I was just too young. I hadn't seen enough of life yet. Oh and thank you, thank you for being as gracious as you were in telling me that he wasn't that gracious. He pretty much called me an idiot child. Well, to be fair, twenty one idiot child fits. I mean, remember twenty one. I was twenty four at the time. I thought, though, like twenty four years old, engaged to be married, combat veteran. I was like, I have lived more of my life at this young age than most people have. I just didn't know how much left how much was left to live. You just hadn't run into the fun parts of nasty. Grams no anyway, So getting to the point of what provoked all this, So the whole point of this little trip down historical lane was the root question Stewart wanted to tackle. Ways, what do we think modern martial law declaration would look like? And he gave us some notes here that kind of was like his idea, and I think he's probably pretty spot on. But also how could it be abused? And that is. I think probably the more interesting part of this conversation. So, like I don't disagree with what Stuart said here that like with a modern sprawling metropolis, you cannot have one hundred percent full lockdown of a city. You got too much area, too much in and out. What you're gonna have is like rolling patrols. You're gonna have checkpoints in and out of the city throughout the city. You're gonna have high traffic areas that are courting off by the military. BA that green zones is basically what you're gonna have exactly. And for those who weren't aren't super familiar with that, that that example because you didn't serve it, didn't study it. Like, there's gonna be movement, There's gonna be people moving around. There's probably gonna be black market activity, there's gonna be goods trading hands. People are gonna be going to work. But you're going to have a level of involvement by the military in your daily life that you have never experienced before. Your wildest fantasies of a police state will fail in comparison to what you're gonna deal with in martial law from the military. Now. It will not be it will not be a situation of like, oh, there's a soldier, Hi, how are you doing. He's going to point a rifle in your face and want to see your papers and want to know where the hell you're going, and do your permission to go to work, And you might or might not get jammed up just because he doesn't like the way you look. Yeah, and there will be no consequences for it, because the military has full authority at that point. And I can tell you from having been involved in a natural disaster in a military to hand and command. Even when martial law was not declared, the prevailing opinion coming from the military shain of command will be you do what you gotta do. You protect yourself, and if everybody gives you any shit, you gag them, bag them, zip, tie their hands and feet behind their back, can throw them in the back of the home. Be Ye. Yes, and like that is that is not meant to be like we were given carte blanche. To just abuse citizens. No, but it was. But it was the expectation that you are to and you are to conduct yourself as if you are in a foreign land in a hostile area, which might sound a little alarming for y'all who were not in uniform, but that is the personality you have to develop, especially post Katrina, when we were literally having potshots taken at us just for fun, like, we developed the personality very quickly of if someone points a weapon of me, I'm smoking them in the middle of the street and walking away. Well, it only takes one crazy to kill half a squad. I mean realistically, if they get the drop on you and unfortunate and also takes at that point, you are to protect government property. Yes, Jeff, drone overwatch as well. If that is like the one thing that we didn't have in play during Katrina that would definitely be in play now is there'd be a lot lot of drone activities. I do think though, we are far less likely to see martial law declared now with how easily abused and easily manipulated states of emergency have become. I do not disagree with that at all. I think that they don't. The negative press is far far less for declaring a state of emergency than there is declaring even a limited section of martial law. And I don't think that matters, honestly. I think I think optimally it does. Okay, two politicians, it might not matter to you and I because the effect is not that terribly dissimilar depending on some of the declarations of emergency that we've had look at. I'm not speaking from from our perspective as concerned citizens. I'm speaking from the government's perspective, and my reasoning is admittedly I am so frigging jaded at this point. I don't think the government gives a shit. I think I think. Codd government as the large entity does. I think individual politicians care very greatly about it. I don't even know if I agree with that at this For one reason, one reason, and one reason only COVID. COVID proved. COVID proved loud and clear that when a large segment of population cries foul and screams bloody murder because their rights are being taken from them at gunpoint by police officers, that the other half the population will shout them down and there will be no consequences for the police, for the politicians, or for anybody else. Really saw no blowback from that in your area, did you no? Now? Admittedly, admittedly the level of in my area in Louisiana, there was a whole lot more jawflap and about what was going to happen. If people didn't comply, then what actually did happen? Because a whole lot of people said, if you come, come and get it if you want, and we realized I'll give you a perfect example, a little bit an example microcosm. Right down the street from my local government building, parish the pay at the parish seat is a playground, public park open all hours. It's it is literally right down the street from them from the parish Okay. And I used to take my daughter there. Parents take their kids there. It is. It was right down the road from the local children's museum. It was right there by the trailhead from the Tammany Trace, which is like a big biking and hiking and walking path. It was a really popular place and there was always police presence through there, so it was a really safe area. Well, a couple of idiot politicians got it in their tiny little brains that like close contact outdoors for an upper restory affection is a frickin' problem. So these people decided, as they did in many part many hay places around the country, that they were going to lock the gates because people were not safe enough to bring their children to play outside during COVID. A handful of parents said, I paid tax dollars for this effing park and literally pushed their kids over the fence, jump the fence, and they were letting their kids go in there and playing. And I am told I having a good authority that a local sheriff's deputy stopped, threatened to arrest parents and made a big old stink about it. Well, of course, as soon as they hit social media lamb, the entire area erupted, and the next day there were ten times as many people with their kids in that park, and the parish immediately backed off, opened the freing gates and dropped it and stopped making a big work of it. It did work, But when I say consequences, I mean that the asshole local politicians faced no consequences. The cop who was trying to enforce stupid shit faced no consequences. We saw a sixty turnover rate of our county board for their COVID policies. Not enough should have been one hundred. Well, considering forty percent voted against those policies, it was the correct amount. The ones that voted for it all got booted. But you had to wait for an election cycle for that to happen. We did, But you can't remove county Okay, Look, aside you were about to say something, I was about to disagree with it. Aside from violently removing county board members, which I thought was an inappropriate response at the time, I still do the proper, lawful procedure was followed by the citizens to correct the behavior. Do you really want anytime somebody disagrees with the county board member to go out there and schwack them and stack them. No? Hm, I'm sorry, I was having me inter on conversation. Oh I understand. Now, Rag saying the governor got voted out next election. I don't count that because we still had to tolerate years of that stupid fat pampas Bass. Sure, but again, does your state have a procedure to remove a sitting governor. Not when he's a Democrat and you have New Orleans, Baturus, and Shreveport in play. Okay, So functionally the state did, through the proper or, through the only procedure available, get rid of him at the next immediate opportunity. I think my issue, so my issue with the instance we're talking about, and to a large degree, my issue with Stuart's original question of how will martial law be instead of talking about how martial law might be abused, let's take let's broaden this out just a tiny bit because you brought it up. You don't need martial law when you can just abuse the hell out of a state emergency exactly. The issue is not martial law. The issue is the abrogation of people's rights. It is and the installation of tyranny, no matter what you call it, and no matter what the point is, because is there a justification for a short term Listen, guys, y'all have rights, but I need all you have to go to your houses and stay there for a minute while we fregain get control of the situation. Is there a point at which we can justify that and say, you know what, there are some situations where the military or the police, someone's got to say, I know you have rights, but not write this minute. Just go sit over there and chill and let us deal with this. For the audio listeners, Nick is unpacking. I don't know that my moral framework allows for that. I could understand other people's moral framework allowing for that. But if the rights are inalienable as spelled out in the Bill of the Rights notes. They're not my opinion. No, now here's here's my issue. You've heard, and I'm sure you will agree with me. But if you can suspend the citizen's rights because there's an emergency, then they'll just invent more emergencies they will issue. Is certain my state has been under a state of emergency since about twenty ten in one bit or another. Oh, I thought you meant like one continuous state. No, no, no, like they rotate through the different emergencies. But I'm fairly certain that Illinois has had a state of emergency enacted, not the same one, but a rolling series of states of emergencies since twenty ten to two today. But are they emergencies or in airbor like emergencies? State of inconvenience A lot. Of the Oh so it's inconvenient, And when people have rights and you want them to be respected. It's inconvenient when the state has to follow its own policies and procedures. Yeah, where where? So? Like I said that, I guess for the next ten or fifteen minutes, like, how what are all the ways we think? Okay, Steward's correcting me. My question was not how would be abused. It's what do you think would happen for martial law to be declared? Mmm, so a couple of. Okay, state? Or additionally, do we want well either or but do we want to stick to Stuart's definition of martial law or do we want to broaden out? Because you and I just got through saying. That they will abuse state of emergency to basically grant them. Whatever power they wish. Well, do we honor the word or the spirit of what Stewart's asking? I like honoring the spirit of the idea, because let's be honest, the government doesn't honor the laws has written, So why should we. Because we'll go to prison or be killed. For not honoring the spirit of the question. That seems a bit extreme. No, for not honoring the word of the law, that's probably fair. I mean just just saying, although you know, I think in my state it's fairly simple. The things that would cause it, say the new Madrid fault having a major clack off and causing the Mississippi River to run backwards again, that I think if that affected one of the major metro areas in the state, I think you could see martial law type situation being acted because right now the areas in Illinois that were heavily damaged from the last major, major New Madrid crookquake are very heavily built up with non earthquake rated skyscrapers and structures because we really don't get a whole lot of them, but when we do, they're really minor or really really horrible. Just so happens that it doesn't happen for hundreds of years at a time. That or Chicago going the way of la in the eighties with the Rodney King riots? Would that be with or without rooftop Koreans? Who would be the roof Koreans Chicago pulled up? But because of PICA there could not be rooftop Koreans unless they were using ruger Many fourteen ranch rifles allowed. But who would the roof Koreans be in Chicago? Probably some of the South Side gangs, honestly more likely than that. Then who would be the rioters? Probably some of the South Side gangs? Interesting look, look aside from like say, a major series of gang wars, massive rioting would probably be the only thing that would cause it in Illinois. Like we don't we don't get hurricanes, blizzards don't really call for martial law because you just kind of got to wait until the snow melts. Yes, it's inconvenient for traffic and transit, but martial law wouldn't really help get the snow off the roads any faster. So really, major fire, major earthquake, or massive political unrest are really the only causes for it, aside from say an external attack like a terrorist attack, a very large, large scale terrorist attack. Yeah, and I mean honestly, like, given given, given Katrina couldn't trigger a marshal an instance of martial law. The the only instances I can think of kind of specific. To my area. Would be like wid widescale He'll widescale riots that just completely overwhelm the local police and get to the point where like they're just burning down city hall and government buildings. I think you get to that situation, Like. I think before you get to that, they declare a state of emergency and mobilize the National Guard. That's that's likely what would happen. But here's here's the trick, though, I think what would I think what would make that more plausible in New Orleans is the fact that like you know, you and I have talked about the fact that like, to get from where I am on the North Shore down to New Orleans, you have to go over one. Of three bridges. Four bridges, sure, four there is no land bridge to get down there, Okay, unless you are willing to drive from here all the way to Baton Rouge and then go south and come like down and around to get like the long way to New Orleans. So I think that if you ever had a situation that was bad enough and extensive enough, and if there was enough coordination that they locked down the bridges, I think then you might be in a situation where now martial law would get declared because at that point there's not even a quick way to bring the National Guard in. You would have to literally military airlift. And the only place in New Orleans you could land like large groups of soldiers in military transports would be Lakefront Airport, which is not in a great area and could very easily be encapsulated in riots and Louis Armstrong International, which has a runway planning big enough to drop like a C seventeen or some Sea one thirties on. But if that airfield gets overrun, because it's also not in a great area. I guess airports are not built in great areas. Yeah, I guess I'm saying because those people can't afford to fight them. But if you had a wide nose spread riot, if there's coordination, you wouldn't even need to like break the bridges. You would really just need to pile up a bunch of junk cars on them, and that by itself would create enough of hazard because at that point, now it's a recovery effort on a narrow bridge to get get the thing unwound, so you can get military trucks through. You can't just ram through them. Uh. Ragles saying, don't forget boats and air boats. There is actually a seal there's a seal fastbo unit out of Stennis in Mississippi. That makes sense. It's a good area to train for swamp stuff. Yeah, well, plenty of that. So yeah, I think I think massive civil unrest or something like a dirty bomb NBC attack in the city New Orleans. Yeah, I could see something like that. But even then, look nine to eleven. They just declared a state of emergency Japan when they had the what was it, oh nerve Gas a tax on the subways in Japan, they Sarin Sarah attacks, they did their version of of state of emergency didn't do anything like martial law. So I don't know, I just I don't are are we literally saying that the only thing that we can think of that would trigger martial law is just like a riot by half the population of a metro. They didn't have to be half, I mean it would have. I don't even know if that would trigger martial law though, just because of the fact that, look, they will just use a state of emergency because they can get they can get most of what they would get from martial law from a state of emergency without having the nasty pr And I do think, regardless of how you or I think about it, I do think politicians care about looking like that much of a shit heel because percent of the time their first priority is getting re elected and being the guy that declared martial law and arrested a whole ton of people through it is not going to look great. Yeah, we might just have to agree to disagree about that, because you have to understand that my point of view is so horribly warped by the. Fact that, like. I, our politicians have done so much fucked up stuff at this point and been caught and there's been no consequences for them, and they are still in power, and they still they are still multi millionaires, and they're not in prison, and the evidence against them on an individual and a group basis is so extraordinary. I think they're quickly reaching a tipping point where they don't care. I don't think because I think they're closed. Now. You know how you can tell Phil, they still pay to hide their sex scandals. They do the Okay, those facts actually keep the hookers silent. Phil, not because they still pay to keep the sex scandals quiet, but because they fought tooth and nail against releasing their those records. Okay, I'll give you that. They're not quite there yet, but they're definitely they could be getting there. They could be seen. Morgan agrees with me two tier dust justice system, although I don't think sometime soon. I think we're already there. We've had a two tier justice system for an extremely long time in this country, probably going back to prior to World War One. Yeah, I mean now, I am not prepared to get into a discussion about two tier justice system right now. I am going to put that down as a potential topic because this is a habit I got into a while ago when Nick and I wrapped up once many times and said, what was that thing we were supposed to make a topic out of because both of us have brain farts. As soon as we're done. No, not justin system, well. Justin the system correct, and we will not be issuing Saren. There are far better tools for the job. Red beans and rice in an enclosed space, the same thing. I was gonna go corn beef and cabbage night at the local bar. But that's also good. I don't even want to gasp myself with that. That's just our bef and cabbage. I got over that hits every one of those, and everyone gets to pay for that the next day. That's just mean spirited. Yeah, yes he is, but he's an excellent machinist. I guess you have to forgive his eccentricity zone you do so, Yeah, I mean, Rago, I guess is going to have the wrap up for the night. But in the end it takes a serious level of violence and chaos that overwhelms local law enforcement. Yeah, but I but where it would have to be. But I don't I don't think it's just that. I think not only do you have to overwhelm local law enforcement, because if you overwhelm local law enforcement, you've broken the government, the local government's ability to enforce their will. But I think you also need a situation that prevents other law enforcement agencies from coming into the area to assist. Because bear in mind, like if a local constibulatory has an issue, they can bring it here. We call them parishes, rights, you call them counties. But you can bring in county assets, you can bring in state assets, you can bring a national guard. But if there is something that shattered local law enforcement and government and prevented other resources from coming into the area to stabilize, then you might have a situation where the state has to say, hey, this is way beyond our ability to deal with this. We have to declare martial law. Because then we can bring in military assets and they can they can inject, they can project power in a way law enforcement cannot. Yeah, I think I think that's part of the technology angle that I was bringing up earlier, is we have the ability to redeploy and reassess and bring in outside help that was not really available in the eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, not nearly as much as it is now. So that begs the question is like, what type of emergency do we think would rise to that level where you break local law enforcement, you exceed their ability to quell violence, you break the chant of commands so that local government can no longer function, and you remove the ability to bring in outside resources. Because I think that's I think you have to in modern times. You have to fill that whole Van diagram before you get to the point of martial law. Mass civil unrest during a large scale war. Ooh, that actually might work out because then you have the military because any of the military largely tied up with foreign engagement, and you have a recipe for massive civil unrest because wars tend to not be super popular for very long, and especially when commodity prices start going through the ceiling, because you know, you're yeading all of your industrial capacity into the war. If we got into involved in a war that required actual rationing, so like a war on the scale World War one, World War two, something like that, I could see it potentially occurring in localized areas. What if and this is actually something you know, I talked about before. I can't believe you didn't remind me about it. But you remember the. Example I gave you last show about we were talking about whether or not you were your own first responder, and I said, well, what if you're like, what if you're the rancher on the southern border and the narciarist decide that they like your ranch. That's fair if you had a situation. Now we are talking about like narco terrorists. But if we're talking about a foreign power, whether it's the Maple Syrup Herb mafia or we're talking about Mexicans, but if they suddenly cross the border and try to project power into our country, I I think that might reach a I think that might reach a point where local law enforcement is just completely out of their death try to stem that. If you are in an active combat zone, de facto martial law, if not martial law per se, you know what I mean, Like it may not have been declared, but if you have frontline combat going on through the middle of your county, it's martial law whether or not it was declared. Kind of situation because if you go like fuck around, find out next to frontline troops, somebody's gonna send you to Jesus. It's kind of like you are the first spawner, whether you intended to be or not, exactly like you know Stuart saying, I ended that scenario that it would not happen without foreign invasion type situation. That really is that really is about the only way I can see it happening. And I think the only thing that's preventing that from being an issue is we only have two immediate neighbors and neither one of them can force project like that, not in the scale necessary. Even if Okay, but let's say hypothetically they tried. Okay, you're dealing with trying to force project into a country that culturally views such as your situations poorly and is reasonably comfortable using violence to protect their homes, and a fair proportion of them have arsenals that would scare most foreign nations in their homes. Given what was it the last I saw, what was it two out of every three firearms on the planet are owned by American civilians or something like that. Yeah, what was it that all the hunters in the state of Montana, Wisconsin? Oh, all the hunters in the state of Wisconsin. Is like, what during Opening Day is like their largest, third largest military in the world. Well, look, that's part of the reason why I don't know that martial law is super useful in the US at this point in time, not because everybody's armed, but because of the scale of the country. You know, you no longer have three sheriffs in the county. You have thirty five sheriffs in the county and all the municipal police with them, and a couple thousand state troopers and then the National Guard. You know, the scale at which government operates now is so much larger than it was in the nineteen hundreds, especially in the eighteen hundreds, that they they can get away with not using martial law, which does not look good on them politically. They can just call it a state of emergency and bring it outside law enforcement and stabilize the situation. That way, they have more tools, they have a less blowback potential option, and they have an easier time of using those other options. So, basically, because because they're the local government's ability to project force and by extension, the state government's ability to project force is so much greater than it was before, the likelihood that we would have a scenario that reaches the legal threshold of martial law is substantially less. Even though the populations that would be either participating in or affected by set event are much larger, the state and the local governments still have dramatically more recent sources than they did before, so they're incentive. I'll go with that. I think that's reasonable. I mean, if you look at it happening historically between eighteen fourteen, in eighteen ninety two, one two, three, four, five, six six times. From nineteen hundred to today, we've got one two, three, four, five, six, seven eight nine times and twice as much time. So the incidents per year of it aggregate are going down, the gaps are getting larger and larger, and the things that are triggering it are getting more extreme. So unless we go so, unless we get red dawned, probably not going to see another instance of martial law. Yeah, ooh oh no, no, I just figured it out, and we're going to end with this. I know what would trigger Marshall law the economic collapse of a state or of a city. But Detroit already did that. But of a state, Detroit damn near collapsed Michigan's economy completely. But it hasn't. No, but it's not really close to what I'm sing the state. What I'm suggestority of the state's economics. What I'm suggesting is if we were ever in a situation where like, okay, so bear to mind that inflation is still a thing, and it's not two and a half percent or whatever the hell the Republican's trying to tell our body, it's substantially worse than that. All you have to do is look at commodity prices from like twenty twenty now and see there's this huge upswing in the graph. But that's another discussion. But if inflation continues to get worse and worse and worse, and if the economy has a major self correction, which I think it's going to in about the next four or five years, y'all can write this it. Should, It should. It's going to happen sooner or later. But what I'm saying is if that happens, economic correction are inevitable. But if that happens and it precipitates mass unemployment, mass civil unrest on a national scale, I think we get in a situation where someone pulls trigger and says martial law. Because we have to to get control of the country when the entire populace comes included at the same time, or really simple, really simple. If we ever get to a situation where welfare checks stop across the country, you will have martial law in the by the afternoon. You'll hardly have it in some localized major metros. Yeah, that's impossible. I'm not saying nationwide, but I'm saying that somewhere we would have we would have martial law because major metro areas from one coast to the other would just irrupt if snap cards and food stamps stopped. Depends on the time of year they did. It, Okay, expand on them because I'm curious, do it in December. You'll never see riots in Chicago or New York. I always forget. You'll have this thing where in the winter it gets like unseen, it gets like unreasonably irrationally cold outside, and it's still. Hard to riot when it's minus thirty. Yeah. See it does that. Jeb Let's freeze off. It does that down here for like I don't know, like four hours a decade, you've had minus thirty. No, I didn't know that it was possible down there. No, the coldest I have personally ever witnessed was twelve degrees above fahrenheit. And it was like that for a few hours. Dude, I've had I've had a month where it never got above twelve. That's because you live in Hell. Yes, I do, politically and environmentally. And I live in I would call it God's country, but this is the land that only the Mosquitoes and the crazy Cajuns want accurate. All Right, I don't know what else we can throw into this, but I'm sure as soon as we wrap, Stewart's gonna be like. You morons, you didn't talk about this and the other You know what we can add. If you're in the patron group, you can probably watch me do some terribly questionable things in the lathe I sent it. I sent a videos to the group earlier today that has me questioning my safety. Christ Nick, did you see that video? I say, I said to the patron check I didn't. I was working like a Hebrew slave today at work. I've got two sea clamps, a couple of bar clamps, a couple of improvised bar clamps too, an angle plate, and a cast iron a cast iron assemblage bolted to a flange plate that is threaded onto my spindle is Rachel a chinger grabbing goodness. She told me to be safe. Jesus Christ probably won't kill me. I figured out how to rig up a dead man switch to a foot pedal so that if something goes catastrophically wrong, I just gotta not step on it anymore. Okay, there's that. We're gonna have fun. All right, Let's go ahead and punt this one out the door. This has been an hour and a half of us goofing off talking about various things, including martial law. I really don't expect that I'm going to live to see an instance where it is enacted again. But I've been wrong before and I might be wrong again. But I am still of the opinion that government is going to misuse and abuse. Any power we give them. So we should tread very lightly on the idea that the government has the ability to just suspend our rights. Because they say so. Yeah, but just remember, when they have more guns than you do, they get to make those decisions. But they don't have more guns than we do. That's the point, Nick, that's the point. Matter of fact, podcast is gonna go out the door. My legal representation does not want me to go any further down that discussion. I'm pretty sure Nick's lawyer doesn't want him to either. My lawyer says that there is nothing in the Illinois statutes that prevents me from manufacturing a gatling gun in my basement. And they're willing to defend you criminally if it comes to that. They are my criminal defense attorney. Yes, excellent. We will encourage your further bad behavior privately. All right, talk to y'all another week. Bye everybody today