Matter of Facts: More Nightvision Nerdism w US Nightvision

[00:00:03] Welcome back to the Matter of Facts podcast on the Prepper Broadcasting Network

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[00:00:17] I'm your host Phil Rabbley and my co-host Andrew Bobo is on the other side of the mic and here's your show

[00:00:23] Yeah, welcome back to Matter of Facts podcast

[00:00:25] We are once again joined by John and Duncan from US Nightvision to finish up where we left off last week

[00:00:31] So if you're listening to this and you miss that you should go back and listen to that because that was the episode that leads up to this

[00:00:38] Where we started all talking about night vision the history of it how US Night Vision got started

[00:00:43] And we led up to making your first purchase and committing financial suicide and possibly angering spouses

[00:00:50] But I'm not responsible for any part of that. It's worth it for cool guy points back me up on this everybody

[00:00:58] Like night vision is it's an interesting world to get into because like I feel like it's it's so talk about yet

[00:01:05] It's still so niche, but it is like legitimately one of the few superpowers that average people can indulge in

[00:01:11] But where we wanted to start this episode off with was

[00:01:16] So you got your nod now what like walk people through this from the perspective of like they just

[00:01:23] They just loaded up the credit card. They just rated the kids college fund. They bought themselves their very first pvs

[00:01:29] 14 it probably came with a plastic JR minus skull crusher and they have the thing

[00:01:35] But where do y'all think they go from here other than like straight to Instagram to show off

[00:01:42] Because that's gonna happen

[00:01:44] Right, I guess I'll start and John about some ideas

[00:01:48] You know over the years

[00:01:51] I think the fourth thing

[00:01:53] So step one is like we talked about last episode by the night vision, right?

[00:01:58] Whatever you get whatever you can afford and to gen 3 mono gauble, you know

[00:02:02] Get that out of the way and get that locked down. I think from there what one or two things needs to immediately

[00:02:08] follow a

[00:02:12] Go out and start using a kit locally, but more importantly. I think it's it's

[00:02:17] Paramount to get into a night vision training class

[00:02:21] Right because as the years go on as your education and night vision goes on train train train exactly because you iterate

[00:02:29] After each training that you do so, you know going in with this idea of what you need for a class is good

[00:02:36] Have a baseline but go to more and more classes to tweak your kit to tweak how you train to tweak your

[00:02:43] Maybe you want to move your pressure pad back or forward or you know

[00:02:47] Maybe this mag pouches are working or this you know, this holster is not working this flashlight. It's not working

[00:02:51] I need more or I need less

[00:02:53] You're only going to be able to iterate your kit from these courses

[00:02:58] So I think immediately after somebody gets their night vision

[00:03:01] It's to go out there either locally or travel to a class train train train and from there

[00:03:07] You learn to iterate your kit based on what you're proficient with or what you're not proficient with and you can kind of supplement that with

[00:03:15] additional tools

[00:03:17] Maybe you're not great at shooting at night with geotech. Maybe you just prefer a laser or vice versa

[00:03:23] So you're not going to find that out until you go and do these classes and I think that's probably in my opinion next step

[00:03:30] Is this kind of what I stress?

[00:03:33] Yeah, and I was just going to point out that like I'm pretty sure I talked about on the last show but like

[00:03:38] You know there's I think people get really hyper fixated when we talk about night vision

[00:03:43] They get really hyper fixated on like shooting with nods and I always point out to people

[00:03:47] I'm like, you know, there's so much administrative stuff that happens with night vision at least military operational use like

[00:03:53] You know, it's it's a totally different

[00:03:57] Environment to just learn how to walk around in the dark in the woods with night vision

[00:04:02] It's a very different set of skill sets to teach your brain

[00:04:07] Because like you I'm Duncan. I think it was you if not it was you John

[00:04:10] But like you pointed out that

[00:04:12] Most people they're using a monocle for example

[00:04:15] There's almost always enough light like we're never in pitch black

[00:04:18] So there's always enough light that your your non aided eye

[00:04:21] Can see something but teaching your brain to put

[00:04:24] That picture and the aided picture together in a way that doesn't give you vertigo from hell

[00:04:29] Like that's something it takes it takes practice. It takes training your brain and training your reflexes

[00:04:34] There's just so much to be gained

[00:04:37] Even outside of a professional training class by just putting the thing on your head and using it and

[00:04:44] Retraining your brain how to do these kinds of things because like not many people in the civilian world have ever had to

[00:04:51] Get their brain to merge two disparate images together from each eye. That's that's just not a common skill set

[00:04:58] Yeah, what I was mentioning

[00:04:59] I think in our last week's episode is that the brain is really an amazing thing in the sense that

[00:05:06] it

[00:05:08] uses that image that an aided eye image that

[00:05:12] adapts to the natural light around you and

[00:05:15] Wearing a 14 or monocle or some model over one of your eyes a lot of guys run a dominant eye

[00:05:21] It uses an it almost increases your depth perception not to get perception as a duality doggle but enough that

[00:05:31] it is why like we

[00:05:34] have to quit it the PDF 7 because the previous seven although have two eyepieces

[00:05:40] It narrowed down in the one ocular one tube and then that was your limited depth perception

[00:05:47] And they realize that over a period of time and years of training that the monocular

[00:05:53] Because there was some special operations. I think you know

[00:05:56] They didn't have like that. I think what's called like the image

[00:05:59] It was almost like the predecessor to the previous 14 and

[00:06:05] And really only the guys working in like special operations in guys in the main

[00:06:11] They would run those and they're like, oh this works way better than a previous seven

[00:06:16] and so for that reason you can gain a lot of

[00:06:23] Appetite from that out of depth perception of a monocle

[00:06:27] And and one last thing is that yes, if you just go out and use it you'll become better at it

[00:06:34] You like we've said last week. It doesn't matter if you're I don't think tennis very well never hard

[00:06:40] But if I went out and play tennis

[00:06:43] Four hours a day for you know a year

[00:06:46] I'd be a better tennis player a year

[00:06:48] I would still not be good

[00:06:50] but I'd be a better tennis player a year later than I was when I started and so yeah

[00:06:55] Being out there and just using it is going to make you better

[00:06:58] Yeah, and I mean the other thing that just just plain simply using it because like not gonna lie

[00:07:04] I work from work from home remotely like 95% of the time and when I got this whole setup

[00:07:08] I spent a couple of days sitting here in the office with it sitting on my head for an eight-hour shift

[00:07:14] Purely because it did two things it

[00:07:16] Retrained all these neck muscles that haven't had you know hang a weight off the front of them for a couple years

[00:07:22] But the other thing you did was it told me loud and clear where in that helmet

[00:07:25] I had a hot spot or where the pads need to be adjusted like there's just

[00:07:29] There's something to be said and some of the Andrew and I have kind of preached about when it comes to like any aspect of training

[00:07:35] But there's something to be said for the fact that if you don't run your gear

[00:07:39] You never really know how it works

[00:07:41] So you have two options here

[00:07:43] You can either stick it on a shelf and log your cool guy points or you can actually use it even for the most mundane and

[00:07:50] Boring things humanly possible because time is time time under nods. It's still time under knots

[00:07:56] so well, I mean and we've talked about it in the past where

[00:08:01] Just I mean

[00:08:03] Like our just our gear in general like camping they take for example. I mean we talk about

[00:08:10] How we need to get out and we need to use our gear

[00:08:13] We need to look we need to use we need to figure out and we need to know how to use that water filter

[00:08:17] We need to know how to use that new stove that fire starter all that stuff

[00:08:21] I mean, that's all tools in a in our toolbox

[00:08:24] Night vision is just that it's another tool in your toolbox and yeah

[00:08:28] If you just buy it and you're like, okay cool

[00:08:30] I got I got the the object here and you stick it on the shelf to collect dust and you never use it and all that stuff

[00:08:36] I mean

[00:08:37] Yeah, if the day ever comes that you need to throw it on and use it could you could you use it?

[00:08:41] I mean you could fumble your way through it probably but

[00:08:45] It's going to be very like you're just going to not really know what to do and it's going to look just weird

[00:08:50] It's going to feel weird or

[00:08:52] Or to build on what you're saying Andrew before you you get it

[00:08:56] Like phil said you get it you take your instagram picture you get your cool points blah blah blah

[00:09:00] And if you don't go out use it to become familiar with it and it becomes that good nature

[00:09:06] That one time should it be needed in a real world situation?

[00:09:10] You're sol right you might like you said Andrew be able to fumble through it

[00:09:15] But you're not going to be able to fumble through it with any proficiency

[00:09:18] Right, you know and I'm not talking about

[00:09:21] You know time trials or anything like that but there's a difference between having it and being proficient and having it just to have

[00:09:30] right so

[00:09:32] Having it just to have it for your cool guy points

[00:09:35] If if that's you and you have a spendable income sure

[00:09:38] And if you just that's that's what you need to put on your shelf or put in your safe

[00:09:44] Feel cool and whatnot. Okay. I mean there is a crowd for that

[00:09:47] But I think the the important factor is

[00:09:51] You need to get it and train with it get it become accustomed with it and not just shooting

[00:09:56] There's so much more to night vision than just running and gunning. There's astronomy. There's photography. There's

[00:10:02] Going for a walk. There's there's camping. There's you know

[00:10:06] A prepper mindset to have it your go bag and to have it in somewhere

[00:10:11] Uh easily accessible or whatnot and a lot of people

[00:10:14] Uh in my experience over the years, you'll get a goggle to start or they get a monocular to start

[00:10:20] And if they go to goggle later down the road, they're going to get a mono pbs 14 to

[00:10:26] You know throw in their go bag throw in their range bag

[00:10:28] Something extra if you get a 14 now and get a goggle down the road a lot of people instead of upgrading

[00:10:34] Or selling off they're keeping that primary unit

[00:10:38] They got

[00:10:39] That's a backup for the for the friends or a loner set or something. So, you know, but those people those individuals are training with

[00:10:47] You know, they're iterating with their kit going back to what I said, you know getting on pbs 14 today

[00:10:53] Six or 12 months getting a goggle. You're iterating your kit and you're

[00:10:58] You're generally doing that because you find a need

[00:11:00] To enhance your tools capabilities. And so you're moving into that you're moving into white lights you're moving into lasers

[00:11:07] um

[00:11:08] you're going to more training so

[00:11:10] I guess at the end at the end just

[00:11:13] Use your stop

[00:11:15] Right, the more you use it the better it's going to to to be for you

[00:11:19] Um and and that's pretty pretty much what I have to say on that one

[00:11:23] Yeah, no, I mean and that goes to uh, I mean using your night vision whether it's a monocular or uh

[00:11:30] You know single tube

[00:11:35] Yeah, no you uh

[00:11:37] Yeah, I mean right there's a perfect example. I mean looking uh just go looking at the stars

[00:11:42] I mean the astronomy part of it is huge

[00:11:44] I mean you look up at the stars and it's crazy when you look up at the stars with your negative eye

[00:11:49] And then if you just throw a pbs 14 or whatever you have and you throw that and you're like, oh, hey

[00:11:54] I can see a lot of more a lot more cool stuff. Like it's just crazy how much it amplifies the star

[00:12:00] It is one of my favorite things to do in night vision is the stars

[00:12:04] Like I used to call it like I used to make fun of guys that were like stargaze, especially early on in the war efforts

[00:12:10] But you do you almost get lost in it. You don't realize how many stars are in our solar system. I mean there are

[00:12:18] Probably tens of thousands versus like hundreds that you would see what your naked eye or your union eyes

[00:12:25] Yeah, exactly. And so yeah, I mean but that goes into like I mean other gear

[00:12:29] So you have your night vision now what and so that goes into uh, like lasers

[00:12:35] I mean, let's just hop into lasers and stuff like that because it's

[00:12:40] Lasering lasers and optics. I mean, I'm a big fan of the high optics like the high mount

[00:12:46] Uh, I was a fan of the high mount. I think on my ar. I have the

[00:12:50] Scalar works one not 1.93

[00:12:53] Uh inch mount uh for I just have a house on red dot on there

[00:12:58] But I became a big fan of that

[00:13:01] based off of just ergonomics and just how how you

[00:13:05] Because I'm not a big fan of how you know, you scrunch down into the gun and everything like that

[00:13:09] So like the higher mount I've always liked it just because of how relaxed it how relaxed my neck feels and how much of a

[00:13:15] neutral position

[00:13:16] That your head gets and that kind of just kind of that transition to night vision because

[00:13:22] As I as I trained and as I got used to this high mount

[00:13:27] Uh, and then I got my like I got the pbs 14

[00:13:30] just

[00:13:31] pulling it up and just looking actually passive through the

[00:13:36] The optic at that mount and then keeping both eyes open and actually seeing like my brain would sit there and say

[00:13:43] Okay, I got the pbs 14 the white phosphor and then now I see this this red

[00:13:48] This red circle and my brain would merge him. So it was really interesting to walk through the woods and like I see nothing on my right eye

[00:13:55] My left eye is lit up with the night vision, but then I I'm seeing a red dot

[00:14:00] Over top of that and so uh, and so I got to you know, I got used to that and then when I moved to um duals

[00:14:08] shooting passive

[00:14:10] Through with duals shooting passive and looking through that that red dot

[00:14:14] And then of course with the laser and stuff with an ir laser shooting shooting with a laser and stuff is just a whole

[00:14:21] Fun game that it's a it's a whole different a whole another animal. It's pretty crazy

[00:14:25] The difference in it and just I mean how fun it is

[00:14:28] Right and I think and I think you know, you have brought up lasers. So I'll dive into that I think

[00:14:34] Um, there's a ton of lasers on the market, right? Do you have visible you have ir only you have, you know

[00:14:41] clones that that

[00:14:42] You know, you have you just have an enormous amount of options

[00:14:47] um

[00:14:48] Here at us night vision. We've really kind of streamlined those options

[00:14:52] Into the three eir designate family. Um, so you have

[00:14:57] Uh, you know some options that are under a thousand dollars

[00:15:00] You have two you have the one series

[00:15:03] I'll show you right here. So it comes in uh visible green

[00:15:08] Or ir pointer only

[00:15:10] You just take a step up still under a thousand dollars

[00:15:13] You kind of get into the dual beam category

[00:15:17] Right, which is going to be your visible green pointer and your ir

[00:15:21] pointer and then you go into the

[00:15:24] irb, which is a dual beam with a b-cell

[00:15:28] illuminator

[00:15:29] This one's at two thousand, but there are still three other models

[00:15:34] That competed at sub thousand space that gets you

[00:15:37] immediately

[00:15:38] That next level that next kit that you can start iterating on

[00:15:42] And then you can dive into white lights or ir lights and stuff of that nature and when you dive into that, you know

[00:15:49] We have uh us night vision branded surefire m640b

[00:15:53] So you have your white light head and ir head and twist and you can circle between those two

[00:15:59] You can go uh very popular in the lighting community

[00:16:04] Malkov heads

[00:16:05] Either white light or ir

[00:16:08] We have some ir ones which are

[00:16:10] hard to find

[00:16:12] Or you can go what I do personally. I do dedicated white lights

[00:16:17] So I did the surefire before

[00:16:19] I'm currently with a cloud defense rain

[00:16:22] 3.0

[00:16:24] These things are bright

[00:16:26] Brighter than you need

[00:16:28] In a way, but there's a lot of options

[00:16:31] Whether you do lasers first or light first it really is going to come down to

[00:16:35] You know passive or sactive which one are you more comfortable with the start? Which one do you want to iterate first?

[00:16:42] There's a lot of people are iterating small segments at a time rather than full

[00:16:48] Kit iteration so you know what you saw years and years ago where a lot of people just getting a bunch of stuff

[00:16:54] and

[00:16:54] Hodge poshing it together

[00:16:57] Going to a class this works this doesn't okay hot pot some more stuff and and so on and so forth now what you're seeing is a more

[00:17:05] tack tacked away

[00:17:07] or more

[00:17:09] Always a more strategic. Yeah more strategic way that people are doing it

[00:17:13] They're iterating, you know one piece of that that arsenal at a time

[00:17:18] Whether that be the light that be the laser that be the optic

[00:17:22] Whether that be a sling, you know

[00:17:26] And there's so many options on the market

[00:17:28] Um that you know at least for us here at us night vision in the laser category

[00:17:33] We have an option for everybody

[00:17:35] Right, we have you know, we have the 2000 and below. We have three models under the $1,000 mark

[00:17:41] So whether you want visible whether you want the whole kit noodle

[00:17:45] We have it um at a price point. That's nice some other great options that i'm big fans of over the years

[00:17:53] Uh, probably one of the biggest fans of be mires. So I've been running them all c1. I have an er as well

[00:18:01] Um fabulous product. They just they have a pretty penny

[00:18:05] um

[00:18:06] Some other great uh laser options

[00:18:09] Some restricted ones that everybody gets to use the engals fabulous

[00:18:13] full power pecs

[00:18:14] And some of their higher tier iterations for some longer range stuff's great too

[00:18:19] But that's not every day and the designate family of lasers

[00:18:23] Is an everyday professional and civilian use product

[00:18:27] At a price point that the industry hasn't seen in a long time

[00:18:30] And I think that's a great iteration category is the designate family

[00:18:36] Um, if you're looking for lamps, right? Yeah now before we get off the subject of lasers

[00:18:41] There is one

[00:18:43] I want to call it hotly contested but I really feel like it's more of a like user preference thing but

[00:18:48] It bears pointing out that there's multiple ways to zero a laser

[00:18:52] And everybody has an opinion on what the best one is

[00:18:55] So like off the top of my head, I can think of like a converging zero a parallel zero and what they call an infinity zero which

[00:19:03] To me still sounds like converging zero but with extra steps, but like

[00:19:08] Do you have a personal preference or guidance for like the person who's just getting into this because

[00:19:13] This came about recently because like when I put that laser aim module on my rifle

[00:19:17] I immediately got crap from my dad

[00:19:20] Because years and years and years ago. I had told him and I stand by this

[00:19:24] I don't see the point of lasers on firearms

[00:19:28] All the way up to the moment you start talking about night vision now it's kind now it kind of becomes it goes from

[00:19:33] Silly fud stuff towards mandatory

[00:19:37] But it still begs the question of like

[00:19:40] Do you have a personal idea of like zeroing? I just did a parallel zero on this because I know that

[00:19:46] From every distance that i'm reasonably going to shoot with night vision

[00:19:49] I'm an inch my laser is an inch high and an inch right and it makes the math really really simple

[00:19:54] And i'm not smart enough to do complex math

[00:19:56] Under fire

[00:19:57] No, I'm right there with it. I do the same thing and it really is for that

[00:20:01] You know wherever I am. I know where I'm hitting

[00:20:04] Right so

[00:20:05] You know

[00:20:06] I I can't you know personal preferences are just that personal preferences, right?

[00:20:11] You know had I said I not did the same thing

[00:20:15] Then I have my own reasons for that but I happen to right because it's like you said

[00:20:19] It's just the easiest. Um, so my advice is

[00:20:22] You're not going to know your preference until you go and train train train train

[00:20:27] So, you know it expresses that need and requirement even further

[00:20:33] um

[00:20:34] And you know, maybe maybe you move your laser up. Maybe you move it back

[00:20:37] Maybe you put it on the side rail or something, you know

[00:20:40] Um, and then that changes zeroing

[00:20:43] What you do and how you do it as well. So there's a lot of trains of thought but the best way in my

[00:20:51] opinion is going to be

[00:20:53] go out

[00:20:54] and

[00:20:55] Figure it out right everybody's gonna have their own preference and and you know, I think the best advice is

[00:21:01] Don't necessarily take

[00:21:03] Other people's advice, right their preference is their preference for a reason

[00:21:07] Good advice

[00:21:09] Right. Well, that's the thing is is you know, I can tell you

[00:21:14] To do it x y n z way

[00:21:16] But it maybe your brain doesn't work like that. Maybe that's not what your preference is. Maybe that's not where your

[00:21:23] Proficiency is either so, you know, just because I do it away or john does it away Andrew and you and phil do it a different way

[00:21:31] We're proficient in how we set our stuff up

[00:21:34] The next guy may not be the same way

[00:21:36] Setup wise so the best answer is go out and figure it out

[00:21:40] All right, figure out what works for you, which are the most proficient with

[00:21:44] And then just take it from there

[00:21:46] I was gonna say that like andrew and I had this conversation when I first started playing with this pbs 14

[00:21:51] And he had advised me the same thing he did

[00:21:54] He told y'all a second ago about how he was running his night vision on his non-dominant eye and he was like

[00:21:59] Co-locating in his brain the red dot that is right. I was seeing his left

[00:22:03] I was saying I can't make my brain do that and I don't know why like I can't if I really really really focus on it

[00:22:11] But it just doesn't come naturally to me

[00:22:13] It might it might purely be the fact that my brain is so hardwired to be right

[00:22:17] I dominant that whatever my right. I see is what overrides it wants to override everything else

[00:22:22] so

[00:22:23] That's just one of those things that like if you like

[00:22:26] Somebody who had experience with it and tried it said hey try this and I was like, yeah my brain said no

[00:22:32] and there's there is

[00:22:34] It gets to the point really quickly where I'm like is it worth trying to rewire your brain to do something

[00:22:39] It obviously doesn't want to do or do you just try method number two and see if that works better

[00:22:44] But I feel like that applies to almost all this stuff, you know, it's like

[00:22:47] Make make the gear work with you right and and I think I think it I think you said it best

[00:22:52] It's you know, what point do you stop drop and move on?

[00:22:57] Right to option number two because you can't

[00:23:01] You can't be the dead horse if option one doesn't work. It's okay. Sometimes option one's not meant to work

[00:23:06] Right. That's why we train. That's why we iterate. That's why we learn so

[00:23:11] Going to option two hell going to option 10 if need be

[00:23:15] right whatever it lands you

[00:23:18] at a safe proficient level

[00:23:21] Execute whatever you need to do whether that be shooting whether that be land now whether that be

[00:23:26] You know admin tasks whatever your journey to get there

[00:23:30] However many times you've had to relearn something or change something

[00:23:35] It's irrelevant. The the end goal is the important fact is getting there

[00:23:39] The journey is irrelevant

[00:23:42] Yeah, and I mean it really sounds like uh, I mean

[00:23:47] It really sounds like it's it just comes down to getting out and using it

[00:23:51] Yep

[00:23:52] And that goes with any gear you have if you buy a new firearm a new pistol get out and put a few hundred rounds down range

[00:23:59] I mean, I would say put a few thousand rounds down range

[00:24:01] But we all know how expensive ammo was right now

[00:24:04] Get out and dry fire. I mean look at mantis and dry fire with that

[00:24:09] The biggest thing is getting some trigger time

[00:24:11] And uh in the same thing with night vision is getting time behind that the the tube

[00:24:18] and getting used to that 40 degree field of vision getting used to that

[00:24:23] That if you're running just a uh, a single a single tube getting used to that

[00:24:28] One eye being covered in the other eyes not because that does screw up your brain at first

[00:24:32] If you're running too like again, just that death reception getting used to I mean I walk around my house still to this day

[00:24:38] I'll just I'll just I'll walk around my house at night

[00:24:41] Um sometimes and it's more of I'll navigate the stairs like I'm purposely walking up and down the stairs

[00:24:46] And I'm looking down and I'm like I'm when I'm stepping I try to look down so I can try to get that feel for

[00:24:51] Okay, this is where the step is. I mean I made coffee the one night under nods because I was like

[00:24:57] Okay, I'm reaching for the cup. Okay. I'm reaching for this. Okay. I'm putting water

[00:25:02] I'm I gotta put water in in the you know in the pot and all this stuff

[00:25:06] Like I'm trying to do this stuff under night vision because it's like

[00:25:09] Especially when you are when you're working like the focus that's the one big thing

[00:25:14] When you have, you know, you have with duels and even with a pbs-14

[00:25:19] But you have your focus so you have infinity focus

[00:25:22] To where like when you focus at something like on the other side of the room and you focus your night vision in

[00:25:26] Versus when then we were sitting there and you're trying to like

[00:25:29] Look down and you're trying to do something that's close up. Okay

[00:25:32] I gotta take the time and I gotta adjust my my focus my focus and so I can actually see what's going on

[00:25:38] Um and everything and getting used to doing that on the fly and then on top of that like the night vision class I took

[00:25:43] Uh, yeah, I mean the first night it was a three day night vision class in the first night

[00:25:47] It was like, okay. This is kind of cool. Like I'm used to just kind of walking around. I'm used to doing this

[00:25:52] but now okay, this is

[00:25:54] Um only like my second time shooting under nods

[00:25:56] So, okay, like what do I got to do and it's a little bit to get used to

[00:25:59] And then on top of that by the third night

[00:26:02] We went from shooting pistols. We started shooting pistols

[00:26:05] Then we went to rifles and the third night we combined the two

[00:26:08] and they turned it and the the final kind of obstacles were

[00:26:12] Um, you were running or you were running like there's there was times where you were running

[00:26:17] You were running forward and you're stopping and then you were running backwards and you're stopping

[00:26:20] Then you're running forward and you're stopping or you're running left and right

[00:26:24] And you had not only did you have to keep your firearm in a safe direction at all times because you had people all around you

[00:26:29] And so you had to be cognizant where other people were so

[00:26:32] It was a really good class and I suggest doing this is

[00:26:36] Get used to looking left and right, especially if you uh under duels when you lose that you kind of lose that peripheral a little bit

[00:26:43] um

[00:26:45] Especially when it's dark out you lose you don't have that peripheral vision

[00:26:48] and so

[00:26:49] Get used to turning left right up down look around and understand get your situational awareness under you

[00:26:56] And then we got and then we go to lasers and uh getting used to shooting under night vision with the laser

[00:27:04] And then uh just shooting passive and all that stuff it all it comes down to

[00:27:09] Is using your gear like that's exactly that that's all this comes down

[00:27:13] Is you can sit there and you can have all the Gucci gear you want

[00:27:17] You can have the panel the panel night vision with the four tubes and all this stuff

[00:27:21] But if you don't get behind it

[00:27:23] You're not gonna you're not doing crap. You're not going to be proficient in it at all

[00:27:27] What I'm just going to interrupt Andrew is that what I just heard all three of you guys described for the last 10 minutes

[00:27:33] Is training and that's what we talked about just prior

[00:27:37] To this online or going live was that without training on anything

[00:27:43] It doesn't matter what you do in life if you don't practice out, you'll never become proficient

[00:27:48] And that's exactly what you all through you said, you know what I was transitioning from

[00:27:54] Histol the rifle and then on the third day you were in transitions on both

[00:27:58] And that's how you're gonna get good at it is literally

[00:28:02] Just putting it on and using it. Yeah, and the more you do it whether it's sitting at your desk for eight hours

[00:28:07] Whether it's walking up and down the stairs holding a cup of water or a cup of coffee

[00:28:12] That's how you're going to become better at it. So it is. It's just putting the time in

[00:28:16] That's what it is

[00:28:18] 110% and I I just typed it into the chat to everybody

[00:28:23] I don't have it handy, but if you check our instagram you could see a picture of Andrew

[00:28:29] Making coffee under night. Oh, yeah, I forgot that we I forgot that you and I made coffee at uh at camp the one

[00:28:35] Yeah, that was

[00:28:37] So the long and short of that is it was prepper camp this past year and it was like the

[00:28:42] Butt crack at dawn nobody else was awake yet and we were trying to make breakfast and coffee off the tailgate of my truck

[00:28:48] before we had to drive down the hill to um the vendors area and um

[00:28:53] Yeah, Andrew extinguishes all the lights puts

[00:28:56] Dual tubes on and starts making coffee under night vision and I just couldn't help myself. It was hilarious

[00:29:01] Yeah, but I mean if you got it you said why not

[00:29:04] Almost as much fun is when the two of us decided to go walk around under night vision that last night

[00:29:08] We were there thinking that oh, it's sunday night everybody will be gone and we like rolled right up in the middle of like

[00:29:15] Two of the organizers from prepper camp who were very shocked at these two knuckleheads running around with night vision and helmets on

[00:29:22] But you know they were cool scared some poor old lady to death

[00:29:26] I want to touch on really quick. I want to touch on raggles. Uh, yeah, I was just reading that too. Yeah, uh

[00:29:34] Yeah, so basically oops, that's you tried to pull it up same time. I did

[00:29:39] So I know hollison is making waves again. Uh, they like they're pretty good at doing this in the industry lately

[00:29:46] They're their new reds the red dot that they're coming out with like it's a thermal night vision

[00:29:50] I mean they have it's pretty nuts. I don't know. I'm sure you guys have seen it

[00:29:55] Yeah, that that in both of those models that uh raggle is is referencing were announced the shot show 23

[00:30:02] Uh or 2023 so last year's shot show

[00:30:05] They were always from my understanding. Um, I don't have any range time with either room. I have floor time

[00:30:11] in some, you know

[00:30:14] demo

[00:30:15] Time, but no, I'm not shot any rounds through any of them. So my opinion is strictly based on

[00:30:21] Uh, the the technology that they present the price points that they present and kind of comparing and contrasting those

[00:30:28] features to predecessors within the industry

[00:30:31] Um, there's always going to be a place for products, right?

[00:30:35] Regardless of how good or how poor they are, there's always going to be a place for for something and everything

[00:30:41] I think both of those

[00:30:43] Will never

[00:30:45] Accomplish what you may think they want to accomplish

[00:30:49] Right, they're always going to be both of those the both of those models are very limited

[00:30:54] Because essentially they're trying to shrink the form factor and the tech down so much

[00:30:59] You know it kind of goes back to that kitchen sink mentality. You're throwing everything at the kitchen sink and you what what

[00:31:05] You know, what you know, what's realtor.com going to value your kitchen sink up?

[00:31:10] You know, is it is it going to be in you know the

[00:31:14] $100,000 category or is it going to be in the two million dollar category when you shove so much tech

[00:31:20] And I'm not saying they're bad products because they're not and they fill a niche void. I think but

[00:31:26] It shouldn't be in my opinion your primary

[00:31:30] You know, you shouldn't look to those to replace

[00:31:33] PBS 14

[00:31:34] You shouldn't look to those to replace

[00:31:36] Rh 25 from ira. You know, they just don't fill those gaps and they're probably not designed to

[00:31:44] I don't know is it worth the money

[00:31:49] The the person's going to make that for themselves like look at the

[00:31:53] T-rex arms or just testing. I forget the model

[00:31:56] But it's like a $4,000

[00:31:58] Was it sig 90 or something. I'm probably butchering what it is. It's like a $4,000 holographic

[00:32:08] On optics planet right now and

[00:32:11] I don't know there's a price point product everybody and you know, this is probably of a low end comparable

[00:32:17] First first that in cost at least

[00:32:20] Um

[00:32:21] To answer your question to this guy's question

[00:32:25] It's probably one off

[00:32:27] Like I don't I don't think you need to replace your kit with that

[00:32:32] Probably cool as you know extra stuff

[00:32:35] But I wouldn't change everything that you have if you already got a good thing going

[00:32:40] I wouldn't go out and spend thousand or $1500 to completely change how you shoot because both of those

[00:32:47] Are going to completely change how you shoot. I guess I guess the way

[00:32:51] Um kind of going off of what you said the more I think about it

[00:32:55] I would almost like I guess I would

[00:32:58] I would have a gun dedicated to my night vision

[00:33:01] Such as the rifle I have now and once you get like a setup like you get your pbs14 or whatever you want to get

[00:33:07] Once you get certain things

[00:33:09] If you have if you have another firearm like then I would say yeah

[00:33:13] Go for it maybe setting another one up a different one

[00:33:15] And then honestly like and comparing the two because you could sit there and be like, okay

[00:33:19] Well, I like this one better or whatever if it if it meets your needs

[00:33:23] Then yeah, okay sell all your night vision do whatever you need to do

[00:33:26] But if you if you're wanting to get night vision, I would actually say

[00:33:30] My suggestion would be get into nods get in get into the package like yeah, it's a pretty expensive road

[00:33:36] but get into it now um

[00:33:38] Get go down that road and fall down that rabble hole because that's what I did and

[00:33:45] I've been pretty happy with it and then and then like I said if you can sit there and be like, okay

[00:33:50] Well, um, I'm pretty much I'm pretty content with my setup and all this stuff. All right. I'm gonna give this one a shot

[00:33:55] I'm gonna try this and see what happens and if I like it. I like it if I don't then okay, whatever

[00:34:00] Uh, but I mean it's an optic they they developed it for a reason. I'm sure it fills a niche or I'm sure it fills a

[00:34:07] avoid somewhere

[00:34:08] uh, especially with the size of it and the weight and how like what it looks like and uh

[00:34:14] Operates the thing and the price. Yeah, the price is huge for it

[00:34:18] And again, how awesome is shaking is making waves like they are constantly making waves and that's what I like about the company

[00:34:24] I hate that they're china

[00:34:26] But I like that they're making waves and their stuff is good

[00:34:28] Like when I first saw reviews on when I first came out and their stuff was like

[00:34:33] Being drop tested and it was surviving these drop tests and it was surviving like the thousands upon thousands of rounds that

[00:34:40] Leopold who's been around for way longer their stuff is failing after a couple thousand rounds and

[00:34:46] Uh, certain things and see I mean look at sig. I mean, yes, sig's china crap too, but they're even more china crap

[00:34:52] Um, I'm not really happy with the the romeos and stuff, but how awesome for some reason whatever they're doing

[00:34:57] They're doing it right

[00:34:59] And maybe I have I have a handful. I mean not a handful, but I have a few how awesome optics and

[00:35:04] uh, the red dot on my rifle I keep thinking about going to like, uh

[00:35:08] Not necessarily an a point or t2, but I've been thinking about going to uh,

[00:35:13] the trejicon uh like the mro and

[00:35:17] but

[00:35:18] As much as I've been wanting to look I've been looking at mro

[00:35:21] Is that I've been researching the crap I've been thinking about picking one up the howlison red dot that I have on my rifle

[00:35:26] I think I've had it on there for I think five years or so

[00:35:29] Give or take and

[00:35:32] Exactly. I have beat the crap out of it

[00:35:35] Dropped it all kind of stuff and has not failed on I think I think an important fact to mention is

[00:35:41] You know

[00:35:42] Not howlison is at a cheaper price point, but if something works

[00:35:47] You don't necessarily have to be the highest price item either

[00:35:51] Right. Howlison is not the highest price item in the optics or laser game, right?

[00:35:57] Um, sometimes they're not even the cheapest either

[00:35:59] Sometimes they truly are a middle ground

[00:36:01] But indria, like you said you've had yours for for five years. I've had mine for probably over three

[00:36:07] Um

[00:36:08] It's the crap out of it still goes still works. There's nothing wrong with it. So why change it?

[00:36:13] Right. Yeah, there's there's for sure better stuff out there here. There's never not going to be better stuff

[00:36:19] Whether that be higher price same price or more

[00:36:22] Or less excuse me. There's gonna be something else

[00:36:25] Once you find something that works stick with it, right? There's no necessarily

[00:36:31] I'm not necessarily a need to iterate past or further than what you got if it works

[00:36:38] Um, that's why my 503

[00:36:42] Howlison, I don't you know my next gun will be you know, I'll do the holographic

[00:36:47] The eotech but

[00:36:49] Nothing wrong with it. It's not high speed. It doesn't look

[00:36:52] Great, but it works and it works every time so I did want to circle back around to something that we didn't talk about last

[00:36:59] Time and I wasn't going to until we started talking about the hollow sun and it got me thinking about it

[00:37:05] What's the what's your opinion of digital night vision because I have my own speaking about like digital night vision specifically separate from thermal

[00:37:14] Thank you, Aurora

[00:37:16] Yeah, yeah digital night vision is dependent on typically like infrared illumination

[00:37:23] so um

[00:37:25] Not tooting our own horn, but Chris and I back in early 2000

[00:37:31] Had a business partner who's been a longtime friend

[00:37:35] Actually got me started in the night vision industries and Scott Henry

[00:37:39] He's the former owner of ir defense or ird, which is the thermal company that

[00:37:45] Tredgecon purchased a few years ago

[00:37:48] And back in like 2000 probably 2001 2002

[00:37:54] Scott wanted out of the night vision industry because he thought image intensified wasn't going to last much longer, which

[00:38:01] That wasn't the best call, but nonetheless

[00:38:04] He invented

[00:38:06] I'm pretty sure I can say this

[00:38:09] with confidence that

[00:38:11] We were the first company to introduce digital night vision

[00:38:16] and we ended up selling it to

[00:38:19] Bush now oh

[00:38:20] Actually night out. I think came in and over

[00:38:24] um offered

[00:38:25] Bush now, but

[00:38:26] Bush now came out with a line of products soon afterwards

[00:38:31] And and what I learned were what I figured out

[00:38:34] Very quickly was that

[00:38:36] digital night vision was never going to replace image intensified

[00:38:40] Because of the dependency on infrared now today's infrared illumination and and diodes are definitely

[00:38:50] 10,000 times better than they were in the year 2000

[00:38:54] but

[00:38:55] Even then it is dependent on that infrared illumination and so where image intensified

[00:39:03] Sees, you know stars

[00:39:06] 4 trillion might light or excuse me light years away

[00:39:11] It shows you the the advancement in that technology. So

[00:39:15] I don't think the digital night vision will ever

[00:39:19] Play a big part. I know that I think the company psionics

[00:39:23] my right

[00:39:25] Okay

[00:39:26] I mean they've done some pretty cool stuff

[00:39:29] But you know there was a time where CMOS technology, which was I believe

[00:39:35] somewhat

[00:39:37] directly related to

[00:39:39] Digital night vision was going to change the game and it still hasn't so unless some company and don't you know

[00:39:47] Don't discount channel because I was staying quiet while you guys are talking

[00:39:52] I you know China's kicking everybody's butt in just about all technologies these days even thermal technology when you think the companies like IRA

[00:40:02] For especially the money

[00:40:04] They are producing some very very capable and high definition thermal

[00:40:10] imaging

[00:40:11] On par really with trigicon or VAE system cores

[00:40:17] It's pretty impressive and they continue to make these

[00:40:20] Huge leaps and huge gains in all technology across the board

[00:40:24] so

[00:40:25] I would say as of now. I don't see digital being much of a

[00:40:29] Useful piece of night vision from what I use. I own a psionics. I haven't taken it out of my safe in

[00:40:36] Probably two years and I don't know if they've come, you know

[00:40:39] If they've come advanced that in the last two years, but not that impressed when compared to image intensified

[00:40:47] So to so to grow or to add on to what John was saying so digital

[00:40:52] You know, John. I don't know if you have

[00:40:54] The the aurora black pro or whatever model you have but that's probably what you're talking about from psionics

[00:41:00] Yeah, so since then they've iterated into a monocular style with the ospin

[00:41:06] That looks like a pbs-14 with some other stuff going on

[00:41:10] But digital I think

[00:41:11] So there's two things that come to mind when we're talking digital in the night vision space but talking

[00:41:18] Dod military side and we're talking commercial side

[00:41:21] I think in a lot of aspects psionics is spearheading and probably the only company that is spearheading digital on the commercial platform

[00:41:27] Whether that be the tactical sense whether that be in the maritime sense. They do very well

[00:41:32] Or the ground based

[00:41:34] sense that

[00:41:35] You know the the auroras and the ospins

[00:41:38] Or targeted geared towards then you have the do decide with

[00:41:43] The iVAS program at psionics and microsoft

[00:41:46] We're working on and still being tested. You have what's called nvd next which is the idea of fusing analog and those

[00:41:57] digital components together

[00:41:59] taking it and kind of

[00:42:01] CMOS perhaps I know I know some companies are

[00:42:04] Moving into that too, but essentially there's two trains of progress being made on the front

[00:42:10] through through

[00:42:11] What psionics and microsoft for the iVAS program started the nvd next program

[00:42:16] Which is is being iterated and talked about and then you have the commercial side with psionics

[00:42:22] With the ospin and stuff so digital is making strides. I don't think it's going to surpass

[00:42:28] I squared or night vision analog technology anytime soon. I think it's five 10 15 maybe even 20 years out

[00:42:35] A lot of my personal experience with the digital spectrum

[00:42:39] Has been latency issues. There's not enough hurts refreshing

[00:42:43] To to walk or run

[00:42:46] Let alone start shooting

[00:42:48] But where this digital stuff really shines thus far is in your stationary in your maritime

[00:42:54] Your videography and stuff like that it's doing phenomenal in those segments, but it can't yet replace analog technology

[00:43:01] And strictly for that latency issue

[00:43:04] There's no other the only thing in my opinion in my experience stopping digital from surpassing what analog can do

[00:43:11] Is truly that refresh rate if they can get that way up and it becomes

[00:43:17] True optically in in terms of there's no latency. There's no

[00:43:20] Lag or anything when you're looking around when that becomes a thing. I think digital has a place table

[00:43:28] Before that I don't think it does

[00:43:30] Um, and that's probably my my two cents on that. No, no, it's interesting because it's you you definitely

[00:43:37] Digital you see a lot of it. You've been seeing it more up and coming

[00:43:41] I've been seeing more I've been seeing more companies like uh the psionics and stuff. I've been seeing them

[00:43:46] um pushing

[00:43:48] Uh the ability for it to mount to a helmet and

[00:43:52] And everything and you know, they're marketing

[00:43:55] towards that

[00:43:57] and

[00:43:58] I guess

[00:44:00] I keep trying to stir people away just because the digital and the latency issues and stuff like that

[00:44:05] I just it's just one of those things where it's just like, okay

[00:44:08] Like that is cool

[00:44:09] Like I would love to get a psionics just because of the fact that to record and to

[00:44:13] Be able to go out and shoot and then record set up a tripod and record yourself

[00:44:18] Doing it and then having that the the ability to do that and so yeah, that's what I would do it for but I would never

[00:44:24] You would never catch it on a helmet not yet

[00:44:27] Right. Yeah, not yet. It's not there yet like but with all technology like it's coming down the pipe

[00:44:31] It's just a matter of getting that uh the speed up and all that stuff on on it

[00:44:36] Well that and what's it gonna cost right? So pvs 14 is going to set you back

[00:44:41] Let's just ballpark everything three grand

[00:44:43] The ospin is already from what I recall 25

[00:44:48] 2600 ish

[00:44:49] So to make it better is probably going to cost more money. So

[00:44:53] You know, I think perhaps down the line

[00:44:56] We're gonna have we're gonna come to a crossroads where digital and analog are the same

[00:45:01] What are you gonna choose?

[00:45:04] Right, there's gonna be no latency issues with the digital

[00:45:07] Uh, so what are you gonna choose and that's that's I guess in my my eyes. That's a million dollar question

[00:45:13] Because I couldn't answer that today

[00:45:15] Right because we haven't the the industry hasn't iterated to a product or a technology that affords us that question yet

[00:45:23] Right, but it's gonna come. There's you know in years time

[00:45:27] there's gonna be a product where

[00:45:29] You know pvs 14 and uh, whatever digit

[00:45:33] You know widget you have

[00:45:36] And they perform the same so

[00:45:39] Well, what's the choice?

[00:45:41] I don't know. I mean the the analogy I make is it's like comparing carburetors to fuel injection

[00:45:46] And that sounds like a really dumb comparison to make in 2024 when everything runs on fuel injection

[00:45:52] But 50 years ago

[00:45:54] there was a debate about which

[00:45:57] Depend down to like what manufacturer what?

[00:46:00] Model of vehicle what usage do you go with fuel injection? Do you go with carburetion?

[00:46:05] Because at that point

[00:46:06] Carburetion was the old hand that was well known and well understood mechanics knew how to modify it and fix it

[00:46:12] And fuel injection was witchcraft

[00:46:15] And we went through a lot of the same thing like when I was younger in the late 90s

[00:46:20] And I was early 2000s. I was working in mechanic shops

[00:46:24] I grew up in the land of electronic fuel injection and obi-d one and two computers and I I just had a natural understanding of

[00:46:31] This information is coming into the computer. You can plug a coder reader into it

[00:46:35] You can read the data out of it and figure out what the problem is

[00:46:37] But the mechanics that came along before me thought that which that was witchcraft

[00:46:42] Like they didn't like the fact that this wasn't all analog and mechanical

[00:46:45] So I look at it as there's a point where like you said it's it's almost like two bell curves to intersect

[00:46:50] There's this bell curve that says this works better than this does

[00:46:53] And sooner or later

[00:46:55] This one's going to go up and this one's going to come or this one's going to flat line

[00:46:59] And eventually they're going to crisscross and when they do

[00:47:01] That's when we're talking about the decision making coming in that you just described

[00:47:05] like I I see

[00:47:07] I I can see digital eventually eclipsing analog

[00:47:11] But I don't see that anytime soon and I certainly don't see

[00:47:16] Like for the person that says

[00:47:19] Do we buy night vision because one day it's going to be obsolete?

[00:47:23] I don't think gen three night vision is going to be obsolete

[00:47:26] I think there might be a day when people prefer digital to analog

[00:47:28] But I don't think that's going to automatically make analog some of you pitch in the trash or put on the shelf

[00:47:33] If that makes sense

[00:47:35] um

[00:47:36] So I guess talking like I mean going off the night vision we've talked about lasers. We've talked about some lights

[00:47:43] Uh, let's talk about like helmet gear. Um, you know, you hit you get a helmet. Uh, what are some? What are some good?

[00:47:50] I mean, we talked about I think the last episode we talked about team windy

[00:47:53] Then we talked about the bump helmet versus ballistic

[00:47:56] The g24 mounts the j arms the the uh, the stuff that you guys sell

[00:48:02] You guys sell an adapter for that goes from a dovetail

[00:48:05] You know for the j arm for obeying that style

[00:48:08] Stuff like that. So I mean what are some decent like what's something?

[00:48:12] to I mean

[00:48:13] We all like the like the look of the helmets like with the operators and the movies and the if you look them up on

[00:48:19] Online and what they're running and all that stuff

[00:48:21] But or what are some key things to to throw on a helmet?

[00:48:24] I've got something that I bet none of you are gonna say but it's super important and I'll go last

[00:48:29] Although Duncan and john might beat me too it for all I know

[00:48:32] Okay, so I'll just I'll just go over

[00:48:34] I guess maybe not the best answer the best way to answer this for me is just over what I use right

[00:48:40] So got a bump helmet. Um, you know my helmet setup is

[00:48:45] You know over the years I've iterated it many times

[00:48:48] Right now, you know a lot of people don't

[00:48:51] Realize this but you can upgrade your helmet

[00:48:54] Right a lot of people just leave with the get and that's it

[00:48:58] No, no, no, no, no I have I have for many years used 4d tactical

[00:49:03] It's like memory foam

[00:49:05] The last two years or ever since part-headed veterans came out with their micro lattice. I've been using that

[00:49:11] The airflow is phenomenal the weight is phenomenal

[00:49:14] Um, you know, if you don't really draw back to that micro lattice is if you don't run a headband

[00:49:21] You have a big forehead like I do

[00:49:23] You may end up with leprosy on your face for half an hour after

[00:49:28] So, you know, they include a headband for a reason. Um, I've lost it too many times and you know, I have a quick order button on amazon for a new one

[00:49:36] um

[00:49:37] You know that I have an s and s mantis robe on it

[00:49:41] Uh

[00:49:43] contact freeze to date myself. They've been working for a decade in a sense in replacing

[00:49:49] um on

[00:49:50] What else is on there book cox g 24

[00:49:53] Uh counterweight and that's kind of it. Um

[00:49:57] You know, I'll

[00:49:59] Plug in my princetech admin light from here or there

[00:50:02] I mean, that's that's my setup. Yeah, I mean mine. It sounds like it's pretty similar. I mean I have uh

[00:50:10] Uh shoot the sordons. Uh, I believe I believe there's the sordons

[00:50:15] uh

[00:50:17] ear pro

[00:50:18] I

[00:50:19] I'm kind of testing out. I'm not really I don't know how I feel about it yet

[00:50:23] But like I bought the the unity tactical

[00:50:26] uh

[00:50:27] The unity tactical attachments that go from basically from mount on the helmet

[00:50:32] down to the ear pro uh and versus the ones that uh, this like the pel tour ones that just pop out

[00:50:39] So I'm kind of testing these ones. I I like them. I just I need to do a little bit of mine

[00:50:43] I need to do a couple little tweaks to them. Um, but other than that, they're not doing too bad. Um, I have a the tomahawk

[00:50:51] Uh

[00:50:52] From t and vc uh, and that has the counterweight that goes in the back. That's basically

[00:50:56] You have a couple lead, uh

[00:50:59] Mohawk, sorry not tomahawk. I'm thinking about state. I so was I now

[00:51:05] I

[00:51:06] We're gonna take my dinner friends, right? I bought three of them tonight. So

[00:51:10] but uh, but yeah, so

[00:51:12] So yeah, I have that with the counterweight which I have mostly batteries back there a couple lead weights, but mostly batteries

[00:51:20] Uh, and then I

[00:51:22] Um, I have a enforce actually the enforce weapon mounted light that you for the rifles. It's the ir white

[00:51:29] I have that and I

[00:51:33] They are and like that's the thing is like I actually I bought it years ago

[00:51:37] I bought it for my rifle because it just came out

[00:51:39] I was like this thing is actually kind of cool. I like it. I bought it and I was like this thing sucks

[00:51:45] Like I completely like

[00:51:48] I took it right off my rifle

[00:51:50] Decided I ended up buying a stream light uh stream light protac and everything

[00:51:54] But uh that when I bought my when I got my helmet I put that on there

[00:51:59] I'm gonna buy a theorem. Um, so the one thing I need to add to it is it's a theorem

[00:52:04] Uh pick a team out that kind of goes it rotates up. It kind of rotates around

[00:52:09] Um, I've been doing a lot of research. What's that?

[00:52:13] Oh, yeah, yeah, so that's going to be my next purchase for my helmet

[00:52:17] um, but just basically because uh, I see a lot of use with uh the one night vision class I was in

[00:52:22] Um couple of the guys had it and it was really nice

[00:52:25] They could just shine their light straight up and it would basically umbrella and it would it was I loved it

[00:52:31] So yeah, that's gonna be one of my next purchases. But uh, it's cheap to to oh, yeah

[00:52:36] I mean to think about it because most people without that right you just mount it and it's forward facing

[00:52:41] So a 30 dollar piece of kit that you over time going to classes and training and training

[00:52:47] 30 bucks now you

[00:52:50] Instantly amplify your capabilities. You have an umbrella light an admin light

[00:52:55] You have everything that you need for 30 bucks attachment

[00:52:58] It's a circle. I mean stuff as simple as that really can take you or anybody to the next level of what you're capable of doing

[00:53:06] No, exactly. Um, I'm running the I'm running the rhino mount on my helmet

[00:53:12] Uh, I do want to upgrade to the g24 eventually, uh, but the rhino the rhino mounts been just working great

[00:53:19] Uh, I thought about upgrading the g24 and then kind of either either a sell the rhino or b

[00:53:24] Stuck it away and use it as a backup

[00:53:27] Uh possible, you know something like that, but um, it's running great for me

[00:53:32] and then

[00:53:33] Hey, andrew are you running your are you running your 1431?

[00:53:39] Yeah with the with so did you so you have the adapter for the

[00:53:42] DevTail i'm guessing

[00:53:45] Because the the 1431 runs a DevTail. Yeah, so okay, so you have the adapter for the for the rhino arm

[00:53:54] uh

[00:53:56] Well, no the rhino the rhino mount that came with the DevTail

[00:54:01] It came with the DevTail adapter then probably yeah, okay

[00:54:05] Yeah, just so that your so that your audience isn't confused

[00:54:08] A rhino arm by default is a bayonet interface

[00:54:12] And then a most goggles dual tube goggles including even dual bridges for 14s

[00:54:18] They run off of a DevTail adapter interface. So

[00:54:23] If you if you decided to upgrade

[00:54:26] You could easily do that because your 1431 is already a

[00:54:31] It's already a DevTail, but your particular

[00:54:35] Uh, so a rhino arm is going to be very compatible with like a pbs 14

[00:54:41] But would not be compatible necessarily with a

[00:54:43] DevTail interface on a garble

[00:54:47] I see okay. Yeah, I honestly like I guess um

[00:54:51] I when I got it when I got the when I got that rhino mount and everything from you guys

[00:54:56] I I clicked it in clicked the 1431 in and was like cool

[00:55:01] It works right away. I like I even I guess I didn't even pay attention to uh,

[00:55:04] Well, that's the thing Andrew like from us we already do that for you

[00:55:10] In our facility, right? So if you yeah, I'm calling up

[00:55:13] Yeah, if you're getting a goggle, we're gonna already put the adapter or else. What's the point?

[00:55:18] We're not going to use bayonet. So why even include it?

[00:55:22] So we'll go ahead and upgrade it before you even get it out of the box

[00:55:25] All right, well, thank you. I appreciate that

[00:55:29] Yes, he has he has that

[00:55:32] I call it a pyramid which is a DevTail conversion, but

[00:55:35] We'll come back to you guys. I can't see you. Okay. There you are. Yeah, that's exactly what you have and and very likely there was a period of time

[00:55:45] That wilcox had some machine issues with part of their subs and they weren't pushing any g24s off the door

[00:55:52] And then we're selling, you know 100

[00:55:56] Goggles a month and there was no way for guys to attach it to so we started using this

[00:56:00] I don't like it's I call the pyramid, but it's actually pyrm

[00:56:06] And it's literally the most lame thing i've ever i'm embarrassed to say but it's

[00:56:10] Tip your righto

[00:56:12] mount

[00:56:12] Ah, so

[00:56:15] I want to call it a rock right now points for creative marketing though

[00:56:20] The pyrm

[00:56:22] Was an adapter that is inserted into your rhino arm

[00:56:27] To accept the DevTail interface and that's why you have it and it does work great

[00:56:32] And it's a less expensive option because your rhino arm is about 300 bucks and then you have about 100 for the

[00:56:40] For the adapter versus $550 for a g24. Yeah

[00:56:47] Yeah, no, it's uh, I mean it's gonna be like I said it's working great right now

[00:56:51] So it's one of those things where I might just upgrade

[00:56:53] Down the road or something but uh, but yeah, no and I think and then I have

[00:56:58] A just a knock off unity tactical

[00:57:01] I'm running one of the unity tactical green lights

[00:57:05] On the back of the helmet, uh, just like the little button that you hit and the sparks

[00:57:09] Yeah, the sparks and stuff. So yeah, that's that's what i'm running and um, I I have not

[00:57:14] Invested in the better

[00:57:15] The pads inside the helmet

[00:57:18] Um talking to you duncan I might have to research those and I might have to grab

[00:57:23] Andrew to be honest with you, you know, so if nothing else do the 40 time

[00:57:27] I ran those five plus years

[00:57:30] um, a thing about that for for your audiences

[00:57:34] Uh because they're basically memory foam if you're a heavy sweater

[00:57:38] Uh

[00:57:40] Defunk after every use or else it's just going to be god awful smelly

[00:57:43] Um when it's cold, uh, they do become rock hard bricks

[00:57:48] Um, and that was the only downfall

[00:57:52] You know when I was living in florida that wasn't an issue. It's never cold

[00:57:54] So that's great, but you know living in North Carolina now in california

[00:57:58] I have to be mindful of my environment. So I switched

[00:58:01] Uh to the micro lattice

[00:58:05] You you physically feel the airflow when you are and they were had that before

[00:58:10] Uh super comfy

[00:58:12] They are rather expensive. It's you know, 40 tactical pads, you know, they have the the new

[00:58:19] Hive uh, I forget what they call it. Um, I was an early adopter of that when it came out

[00:58:25] Um, but now they have some other designs

[00:58:27] Um, those are great super comfortable 10 out of 10 would buy again

[00:58:31] But the micro lattice is a game changer. It just happens to be rather pricey. I think it's over 200 bucks

[00:58:38] Uh, that sounds about right, but I don't regret it

[00:58:42] Don't regret it and I'll I'd buy 10 more of them

[00:58:45] If you don't want to yeah, I mean you can't regret when you're when you're talking about comfort and wearing night vision

[00:58:50] Especially when you're talking about some topics in all my use or all my mission

[00:58:56] Like comfort is going to be worth it when you're paying for it because

[00:59:00] To to use it when it's uncomfortable being back to that skull crusher, which is why we call the skull crusher

[00:59:07] Not too many guys want to use that on an overnight mission. It's it's a rough one

[00:59:12] It starts to really give you a headache

[00:59:14] And then it's worthless if you can't operate on it because your head's dumping

[00:59:18] Then your night vision is not really aiming you in any way

[00:59:21] So I don't really have anything as far as like helmet accessories to add that y'all haven't already covered

[00:59:26] Um

[00:59:28] Except for the one thing that nobody talked about which is the simplest stupidest thing on earth that everybody forgets about until

[00:59:34] Something bad happens a lanyard, which sounds like a really dumb thing to point out

[00:59:38] But yeah, I just got a perfect eye roll out of Duncan

[00:59:41] Okay, okay, and here and here's why and here's why

[00:59:45] Okay

[00:59:46] I do not

[00:59:48] I don't not consider retention to be important, but so many helmets natively come with retention already

[00:59:57] right, so you know like

[01:00:00] I mean team wendy's they come with retention

[01:00:03] Uh, I mean everything comes with retention. So our recon helmet comes with retention. Right. Yeah, so I mean

[01:00:11] Are there better options than the onboard stuff? Yeah, because you know on my

[01:00:17] Airframe the the stock bungees are not long enough. So I went out amazon got longer bungees

[01:00:24] um

[01:00:26] made that and now

[01:00:28] My night vision doesn't smack me in the face or smack my helmet when it comes up

[01:00:32] So, you know some small changes, but it's still the same segment of retention

[01:00:36] Uh, are you using a a nerd? Are you using?

[01:00:40] You know, what are you using kinetic consulting? Are you using this?

[01:00:43] 550 totally

[01:00:45] homemade stitched it myself

[01:00:47] I have a piece of gutted 550 cord and it is tied to a piece of extra nylon webbing

[01:00:53] I had lying around on my junk drawer with some velcro double stitch to it and you just

[01:00:58] Wack it on the top of your melon and it's just there to make sure that your

[01:01:02] pbs 14 doesn't take a swan dive

[01:01:05] Into the ground. Yeah, I mean I think I think phil that's probably the the least talked about most important thing though

[01:01:12] Is is retention? Yeah, I mean

[01:01:14] And see it's one of those weird situations because like it's something we never talked about of course when I was using it

[01:01:20] Operationally it was always with a skull crusher

[01:01:22] So I guess or where there wasn't much tied on to except for maybe your ears which would have been interesting

[01:01:26] but like

[01:01:27] I don't know it's it's one of those things where like I either see people talk about it

[01:01:31] Incessantly and they have some really cool 60 70 dollar retention system that they want to sell you on

[01:01:36] Or it's something that we totally overlook because it's

[01:01:39] Of course you're gonna do it

[01:01:41] But again, I just want to loop it or loop it into the conversation for the new guys that are just coming into this like

[01:01:46] especially if you're using

[01:01:49] Like the plastic j arm that comes with a pbs 14

[01:01:52] Especially if you're still using and you're still in the bayonet ecotexture

[01:01:56] Or you know ecosystem like just understand that that there's plastic involved for reasons

[01:02:02] So you don't snap your neck if you hang your head up on something

[01:02:05] but

[01:02:06] We're this we don't I don't work for the dod anymore where I get to tell my supply sergeant

[01:02:11] I need another one

[01:02:11] I get to tell my wife

[01:02:13] I smashed a four thousand dollar pbs 14 and then get beat with a wooden spoon. So like, you know

[01:02:19] Plan for things to fail and a retention system is twofold

[01:02:23] Because one part of it is the safety aspect so that if your goggle becomes, you know

[01:02:29] Knocked off of the carrier. It doesn't fall to ground and smash and get the wood is being treated

[01:02:35] But also the other side of it is

[01:02:37] A lot of guys were running like when they were running duels

[01:02:41] Retention systems prevented any, you know that wobble that you would get when you're going when you're x filling out of an aircraft

[01:02:47] For example, you're going boots on the ground and guys were, you know

[01:02:50] Going a hundred miles an hour that they would lose their line of sight with their night vision capabilities

[01:02:55] So the retention system really is designed to be two things stabilize

[01:03:00] The device so that it doesn't move around so much and then of course

[01:03:04] It doesn't fall to ground and break

[01:03:08] So I guess kind of wrapping this up a little bit. Um, where like sorry not where what uh, like out of everything

[01:03:14] We've talked about. I mean is there anything else that you guys would add like can you think about anything off the top of your head that

[01:03:20] We might have skipped over that someone trying to get into the game

[01:03:24] You know that it's that you would think is it probably like a key

[01:03:28] A key component uh that they should look into getting

[01:03:31] in

[01:03:33] Or do you think that we basically covered everything by batteries lots and lots of

[01:03:37] I will tell you that some of the add-ons I see and i'm not discouraging it because it's a big investment

[01:03:46] I do notice that there are guys or buyers that

[01:03:50] Want to invest into a hard case to protect their device if they're driving around the vehicle

[01:03:57] um in the 24 years i've owned the company

[01:04:00] I think I used a hard case maybe three times and that was in the first

[01:04:05] year and a couple reasons why is it's big and heavy and bulky

[01:04:10] And you're not carrying it around anywhere because it's too big and bulky

[01:04:15] and then secondly

[01:04:18] You know storing it you're typically going to store it in the gun safe where I do anyways

[01:04:23] But you're not storing it in a in an

[01:04:26] In an environment where it's going to likely become damaged

[01:04:29] And even when you're driving around in a vehicle off-road because you're

[01:04:34] Going through a tree stand and go hunt your animals and deer or whatever in the morning

[01:04:38] You know, you will get a little bit of movement around but it's typically secured with your weapon

[01:04:42] So I would just say that again

[01:04:45] It's not a bad investment

[01:04:47] But at the practicality of it to spend maybe $150 on a good hard case and we have them

[01:04:53] Custom made beautiful hard cases water proof and everything else

[01:04:57] That would play a part where you don't have a gun safe

[01:05:01] So like my gun safe

[01:05:03] houses all by expensive everything and it's temperature controlled if you're going to put your night vision out in a garage

[01:05:11] Where there might be moisture or humidity then put it in one of those hard cases to store it in

[01:05:16] Is a very it's an inexpensive insurance investment because it's preventing it from

[01:05:22] The environmental side of that damage, but other than that, I don't think I think we've covered just about everything with regards to

[01:05:31] Kitting out your system or kidding out your your your device

[01:05:35] You know

[01:05:36] An imprint any laser is key if you ever anticipate or plan on engaging targets

[01:05:41] Whether those be steel targets. Yes

[01:05:44] Steel targets animals or people in a self-defense situation

[01:05:50] A helmet is a

[01:05:52] You know, it's it's pretty standard in my eyes, but you can get away without having one

[01:06:00] The ir indicators the flashlights i'm a huge fan of the sure file, which is why we only in it

[01:06:06] I love that

[01:06:08] Vampire because it does provides you

[01:06:10] Both the white light and you might need it because you won't have the luxury of night vision or your night vision fails you

[01:06:16] Uh as well as the infrared illumination to add to like a dir one

[01:06:23] So I do think we've covered. Yeah, there's the dr one and man that thing

[01:06:27] It's not doing it's much justice that thing can literally fit in the palm of duncans hand. That's how small it is

[01:06:34] I mean look at the size of that thing that form factor is incredible

[01:06:39] It disappears on your life when you don't see it looking through your day off at during the day

[01:06:44] It all bit disappears so

[01:06:46] And a battery pack when you're running gongles like a 1431

[01:06:52] That 1431 battery pack already has an ir infrared illumination and

[01:06:56] IR flashers that's a great investment or an ambition

[01:07:01] And if you don't if you're running a 14 you guys are already kind of directed towards any type of

[01:07:07] IR flashing device like

[01:07:09] We sell the hell star. I think is what I run on my helmets

[01:07:13] Um, so there's a tremendous amount of options out there

[01:07:17] Yeah, and the one thing that I noticed just by doing uh when you guys first dropped the uh your guys's

[01:07:23] IR devices and stuff

[01:07:24] The lasers is just the how low profile they are

[01:07:29] That's the one thing that really drew me to them because like I said, I got a d ball and

[01:07:33] Um, I have it like I have it the way I have it mounted on it's not a 16 inch

[01:07:38] Rifle and stuff, but you kind of I do kind of see it

[01:07:42] Like if I put my hand on top to try to activate it if I'm not using the switch or whatever like that

[01:07:46] But I mean I can see the top of it. Uh, even with a taller mountain stuff. It's just the way just with

[01:07:54] Basically just with that angle and everything coming out. It's I see the top of it. So having that low profile

[01:08:00] laser

[01:08:01] That definitely

[01:08:02] I do like that. That's awesome

[01:08:05] One of the biggest complaints over the last two years with guys in theater

[01:08:09] That were running pet 15s and looking through there, especially like an eotech holocaite

[01:08:14] I mean that thing's already laying so flat on your rifle. I mean that takes up 50 percent of your sight picture

[01:08:19] So when you're trying to identify something in your sight picture

[01:08:23] Is somebody wearing something on their lower extremities, you know trying to identify whether there might be

[01:08:30] Uh explosives or something it's very hard to see it when

[01:08:33] That top of that laser is covering 50 percent of your sight picture for your day out there

[01:08:39] Most of time they get interfered with your point of aim, but it did

[01:08:43] interfere with your target. So

[01:08:46] Yeah, we we're very proud and humbly proud of that d i r line because

[01:08:54] The form factor is incredible. The if you're looking for illumination

[01:08:58] I mean, there's only one other

[01:08:59] You know laser illuminator on the market that even gets close to it performance wise

[01:09:04] Which is the mall from the emirers, but you know, it's it's almost twice as expensive and hard to get

[01:09:11] And it's just the form factor is pretty tough

[01:09:15] You enjoy a second flashlight on your rifle that will get you hung up on something

[01:09:20] It's it's the laser for you. But otherwise

[01:09:23] Yeah, the d r d i r line is pretty pretty incredible

[01:09:26] Nice. Well good. Yeah, no, um, I got nothing else. I I mean, yeah, we're so I mean

[01:09:33] Obviously we've been talking a lot about the company and stuff like that

[01:09:36] As a recap to the listeners and everything working everybody finds you guys

[01:09:41] Yeah, so they can find us at

[01:09:42] www.usnightvision.com

[01:09:46] Google us you'll find our phone number hop on the website

[01:09:49] Our facebook instagram are there

[01:09:51] Or you can hop on our live chat and uh, I'll see if I can't beat my four second response time

[01:09:58] I almost started testing them do it. I got two more of positive feedbacks today

[01:10:02] For duncan and when he first started that thing, I was like, oh, please don't do that

[01:10:08] I

[01:10:08] We I I received so many compliments for this guy on something that I was very discouraging in the beginning

[01:10:17] And I got I got d-dough between my business partner and dug in like

[01:10:21] Just give it some time and guys love it guys are buying on the spot because duncan's right there to

[01:10:28] Kind of walk you through the process

[01:10:31] It's been very very valuable. Yeah, no, it says a lot too

[01:10:35] I mean it says a lot when you are thinking about a company like this

[01:10:38] It's like, okay

[01:10:39] Well, of course, you know

[01:10:40] Because you you go on these other websites and a lot of them they'll pop up and

[01:10:44] It's a generic buy and I could question

[01:10:47] Yeah, yeah, and so you're sitting there and you're like, uh, man, this isn't gonna do nothing

[01:10:51] But then when you start you you type in a question and all of a sudden like you get a a response that isn't a automated

[01:10:59] Bot response you're like, oh wait, uh

[01:11:02] Person's alive and has a pulse. So so I mean but that just it just says a lot about the company

[01:11:07] And and you guys care about your customer service. So uh, that's awesome. Not many companies do that anymore. So

[01:11:13] I'm just glad I I didn't do what I usually do when I think I'm encountering an AI chat bot and I usually

[01:11:17] Say the craziest things I can just to use myself

[01:11:21] So that's something you can't say on this podcast

[01:11:24] I'm kind of glad when I saw the chat bot when I saw the live chat pop up on y'all's website

[01:11:29] I I just ignored it instead of doing what I was about to do which

[01:11:33] Duncan, I might have been having a very different conversation

[01:11:35] What we've made for the first time

[01:11:37] You would listen you would be surprised

[01:11:40] at what

[01:11:41] I see at you know one a.m

[01:11:45] PST of people some of these chats are

[01:11:48] You know and and you know over the years john can attest to this, you know over the years

[01:11:52] They are not customers the friends the family

[01:11:54] Um, they're an extension of our lives in in some capacity

[01:11:59] The it's the friends. I got to deal with you know, just the ones that are going to come in and bust my balls at 1 a.m

[01:12:04] Are you up? What are you doing? Are you real?

[01:12:08] Um, and I you know some people I you know, I know these people or whatnot or you get the randoms that

[01:12:14] Are you awake question mark? Yep. Okay. I have a question quick question

[01:12:19] Okay, well it's 1 a.m. You know, I've I've already poured my bourbon for the night

[01:12:23] What you know shoot me what you got?

[01:12:25] But yeah, no our live chat is is phenomenal

[01:12:29] We probably have put this response time in the industry because I don't sleep

[01:12:34] Um, and if you pick up the phone we probably also have to put this phone call

[01:12:38] Uh response time because john never sleeps

[01:12:42] So you you get you do get live support and I think that's probably a difference maker for a lot of people is is that instantaneous

[01:12:51] Support can be a quick question can be a long conversation

[01:12:54] We're here for it. Awesome. Um, just really quick everybody when you go on to us night vision dot com

[01:13:01] Use code mof

[01:13:03] For 3% off as well

[01:13:05] I will be getting that code up on our website and everything so you guys, uh, I mean

[01:13:10] Thanks a lot for coming on a second time. Um, it was it's always a pleasure talking to you guys john

[01:13:15] I know I've talked to you a handful of times on the phone and everything and we've always got good conversations

[01:13:19] But it's good to get you guys on and uh

[01:13:21] I really I can't wait till we get uh have another conversation and honestly like I said before

[01:13:26] We'll have to get you guys on and we don't even need to talk about night visions

[01:13:30] I don't know talk about politics. So let's get your real real feelings out there

[01:13:35] You can't get you to get a drunken rant

[01:13:38] Very like minded that would be the positive aspect of that

[01:13:42] But again when you start getting feel especially all work that over

[01:13:46] Pays and we might start, you know, it may go from rated g to rated r quickly

[01:13:52] So you'll have to have your finger on the button right there you go

[01:13:56] You know, I I do actually have that this video that i'm not going to play right now

[01:14:00] That's all queued up and just waiting for the next time. Andrew sends me into orbit labeled blood pressure warning

[01:14:07] And it's just for those moments where I've completely lost my mind to run off the reservation

[01:14:12] Which hasn't happened yet as actually we all have those moments

[01:14:15] Yeah

[01:14:17] Usually it coincides with Andrew poking me with a stick and uh my whiskey intake being just at the right level

[01:14:24] It coincides with the administration that is now running our country, which is

[01:14:30] A failure and we won't start I we weren't supposed to start with the politics, but I mean it's just it's um

[01:14:37] Looking forward to november of 2024

[01:14:40] Right so new opportunities

[01:14:43] I'm looking forward to mad max honestly. I forgot my post pocalyptic warlord outfit all picked out and everything

[01:14:49] I think i'm gonna go lord humongous with the hockey mask the short shorts and the uh combat boots

[01:14:56] Keep it a real

[01:14:58] But yeah, well guys, thanks again for coming on greatly appreciate it and uh anytime you guys more than welcome anytime

[01:15:05] Just hit one of us up and uh, we'll make plans

[01:15:10] Yep, so we'll go ahead and punt this one out the door

[01:15:12] This has been john and duncan from us night vision

[01:15:15] Indulging us on another night of night vision nerdism

[01:15:18] And if y'all haven't already taken the plunge, I suggest you go to us night vision and um

[01:15:24] Talk to duncan on the live chat just be polite because he's not an ai chat body. He's a real person with feelings

[01:15:31] And uh, if you'd rather have a phone call talk to john and if you'd rather not get into night vision

[01:15:36] I don't know why on earth you're listening to this, but maybe we'll twist your arm

[01:15:40] But good night everybody talk to you another week. Bye. Thank you everyone

[01:15:44] You