Church & State - From the Governor’s Mansion to Federal Prison with Rod Blagojevich

Spokane Valley could become a sanctuary city of a different kind. Councilman Caleb Collier says that this proposal... I'm proposing that the city of Spokane Valley issue a proclamation stating that our city is a Second Amendment sanctuary. Welcome to the fire. Welcome to the fire. Today on the Caleb Collier Show, Rod Blagojevich. Hello, Christian Patriots, and welcome to the Caleb Collier Show of Church and State Media, where we drive morality and religion over tolerance and apathy. And I'm your host, Caleb Collier. Once again, your favorite far-right shock jock. And the show that talks about politics and religion, Jesus Christ is our referee, so it's always nice and clean. Real quick, I'm going to point you to the website, churchandstate.media. Fill out this form, get our newsletter, and of course, bypass the censorship and a personal phone call from yours truly. 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Lastly, if you want to get a hold of us, churchandstate1776 at proton.me. With that, let's go ahead and bring out our guest. Now, I'm thrilled to bring to you Rod Blagojevich. Sorry, excuse me for there. He is the former governor of Illinois, the 40th governor of Illinois. He's an author, speaker, podcast host, and somebody that all of you should be pretty familiar with. Mr. Mayor, thank you for joining us on Church and State. Yeah, thanks, Caleb, for having me. It was Mr. Governor, by the way. Oh, Governor, sorry. I apologize for that. Yes. No, no, don't worry about that. But I just want to tell your listeners and your viewers, I didn't do it. And when I was governor for six years, I never raised the taxes on the people of Illinois. They were overtaxed already. I mean, and that's very fair. You know, anybody who's followed your story obviously saw that you were you were thrown under the bus. And while some on the conservative side might say, you know, he was a Democrat governor. You actually did a lot of good things for the state of Illinois. Thank you for that question. Yeah, I do. I would say this under oath, by the way. I think I was the best governor in Illinois history, in modern Illinois political history. I think about all my predecessors. I think about my successors. I look at our governor here, Pritzker, who used to work for me. I think he's a disaster. Tens of thousands of people are leaving Illinois because we are the highest taxed state in the nation. I wouldn't raise taxes on the people when I was governor, yet I found a way to find money to advance health care for every child, affordable health care for every child in Illinois. No state had done it before we did it in 2005. We provided free public transportation for our seniors and the disabled, mammograms and pap smears for underserved women. Sounds like a socialist thing, but it's not, because we didn't raise taxes on people. We just moved the money around that was there, took it away from some of the special interests, and gave it to the people to serve them, you know. And, you know, when you think about what your obligation is when you're in a position like the governor in Illinois at the time was the fifth largest state, had a lot of power. I believe it was to do things for people and actually serve the people, and I think that's the sort of stuff that pleases the Lord. Anyway, I'm happy to take any questions you have or even defend some of my record, but it was a hard experience. It didn't end the way I had expected it would, but there's a big story in that, too, and I think God has a plan for all of us, and I think what they did to me— this is Genesis chapter 50—what they did to me got— What they meant for evil, God meant for good. And I think I have a chance now to tell my story and serve my country in a way that's a little bit different. And the work that you do as a libertarian, Caleb, is really important because freedom is under attack in the United States. I learned that the hard way. And if you give people in government uncontrolled power like some of these corrupt, weaponized prosecutors have, That's just the beginning of taking away freedom from all the people. If they can do it to a governor like they did to me, a Democrat governor, at the AAA level, and then do it to President Trump, a Republican presidential candidate, former president, at the major league level, nobody is safe. I completely agree with that statement. I want to ask you actually a little bit about your upbringing, because I would imagine I read that your father served in the Yugoslavian army, that he was actually a prisoner of war in a Nazi camp. And I would imagine growing up under that and hearing some of these stories that really shaped you as a youth. Yes, I'm glad you brought that up. You know, it's interesting because my father came to America legally as an immigrant. In 1948, after the United States Congress passed a law called the Displaced Persons Act, you couldn't, until they passed that law, he wasn't eligible, and millions of others like him who were refugees in Europe weren't eligible to come here. And my dad fought the Nazis, spent four years in a Nazi prisoner of war camp, and then three years in a refugee camp waiting for that law to pass. Because, Caleb, he didn't want to go back to Yugoslavia because the communists had taken over. My dad was a real believer in freedom, and when he came to America without a penny in his pocket, didn't speak a word of English. You know, to the day he died, my father always believed there was no place like America, the greatest country in the world. And even though his ship never came in, my dad was a steel worker, a factory worker. Everything he did was really to sacrifice, scrimp it safe, so I can get a college education. The point I'm trying to make is my dad, interestingly enough, was a Cold War Republican. He used to vote Republican. My mother was a New Deal FDR Democrat. She was born in the United States. So I was raised in a five-room apartment in a home where you had a Republican... father and a Democrat mother. And maybe one of my problems in politics, though I never lost an election, was when I was the Democratic governor, I didn't hate the Republicans. And if they had something that was good for the people, I always felt like you should try to reach across the aisle and try to pass things. Today, politics is so hyperpartisan. And you have a Democratic Party that claims it's on the side of working people. If they voted, every one of them voted against Trump when he passed no taxes on tips, no taxes on overtime, and no taxes on senior citizens for Social Security. When you reduce those things that actually help regular, ordinary, everyday people, it was a Republican president, Trump, who did it. The Democrats opposed it. And it's really unfortunate how things have happened in America with our politics. But I would say again, Caleb, I'm giving you long answers because I have so much to say. But I would again say that the greatest threat to our country right now The threat from socialism is a big, big threat, and it's very real because they've hijacked the Democrat Party, my political party. But in addition to that, it's these uncontrolled, weaponized prosecutors who are destroying the rule of law. And it's the rule of law in our Constitution that protects our freedoms. And it's guys like you and your listeners and your viewers who are interested in protecting freedom that are going to be the ones who save our country. Because one thing I know, after having spent eight years in prison reading books, catching up on my reading, one good thing about prison is you can do that there. is that history repeats itself. And if power is too concentrated in one place, it is abused. It's human nature. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And if we don't check it and protect our freedoms, we're going to lose them. I think that's so incredibly well said there, sir. You know, I've made the argument on the show that society needs poets and warriors. And to apply that politically— The country needs Democrats and Republicans, and not, like you said, the hijacked socialists that have become the Democrat Party, but more of the blue dog type Democrat that I think you represented. Well, I think there's like what? One in the Senate right now, and that's the guy with the hoodie, like me, Fetterman. I'm wearing this in honor of Fetterman. He's the only Democrat elected in office today that I like. I'm a Democratic governor. And was a Democratic congressman. Joe Manchin was another guy, the guy from West Virginia, who I knew. We were both governors together, and not long before I was arrested early in the morning at 6 o'clock with the FBI agents at my front door and a 24-member SWAT team around my house. I'm the sitting governor of Illinois and the commander-in-chief of the National Guard, and the government comes and does that to me? And by the way, none of that was crimes. I think we'll talk about that later. It was all politics. Eventually, the appellate court ruled that the allegations against me, the convictions on so-called sale of a Senate seat was all bull. Can you say that here? We'll edit it out. OK. It was all BS, all baloney. It was nothing more than routine political log rolling. They reversed that. But the point I'm trying to make is that, yes, we need common sense Democrats in the Democratic Party. And I think there's only one left, and it's Fetterman, the guy from Pennsylvania. Sure. So let's get into the case, because I know the audience is going to be very interested in this. I know you've just written a book about this, and we're going to showcase that here in a little bit. But walk the audience through exactly what happened, the charges that were against you, how it's been proven to be fraudulent. Well, I went to bed on the night of December the 8th, 2008, feeling very good. Earlier that day, I was on the phone call with my chief of staff, and I instructed him to take a step, which means that's an act, to reach out to Rahm Emanuel, who is now running for president, but at the time was designated to be President-elect Obama's chief of staff, because I wanted him to be the go-between to make a political deal between me and the Democratic House Speaker, who was my big enemy. The great irony was I was at war with my own party. But I wanted to expand health care for 1.2 million Illinoisans who didn't have it because then we would have gotten everybody access to affordable health care, not Medicare for all, but affordable health care, a combination of help from the government and private sector insurance. A big public works bill that would create tens of thousands of jobs, build schools and hospitals and highways, necessary infrastructure improvements. The big part of that was you create all kinds of jobs and work and opportunities for people, especially in the downstate areas of Illinois, that have been hollowed out because of the policies of Bill Clinton and the Democrats and the corporate Republicans who sent all those jobs over to China, Mexico and even Canada through NAFTA and some of the trade agreements. And I didn't want to raise taxes, and I had a deal that was going to be signed by the speaker to not raise the income tax or override any veto of mine on an income tax increase because I was going to oppose that. If he did that, I was going to hold my nose and make his daughter the senator. She was the attorney general of Illinois. These two people were my biggest enemies in Illinois politics at the time. But I felt it was the best deal I could get for the people. The FBI, they heard this. They were listening to my calls for six weeks. I suspected they might have been because they had been chasing me for five years. And so everything I talked about doing was 1,000 percent legal, brainstorming, even stupid ideas. But that's brainstorming. You should be free to be able to do that. Little did I know that they would then criminalize it. But it came the next morning, not during business hours, but it came early before I could follow up and make that deal so that they can arrest me and then lie and say I was trying to sell the Senate seat when I was about to make a great deal for the people. Now, to this day, 98 percent of those FBI tapes, including the tape from that night before and that day before, are covered up under court seal, gag order. They won't release them. They're covering them up, and they wouldn't let me use them at trial. Recently, we just got Obama's FBI interviews, because he was interviewed after they arrested me, and corroborated a lot of what I was about to do. He was well aware that I was about to make that political deal. But instead, what they did was they took conversations out of context, ideas that we were throwing out. All of them were legal, by the way, but they made them look like they were crimes. And they came and arrested me that morning, again, not to stop a crime spree, which is what they said, but to stop that deal, because then they could have never arrested me and lied had I picked a senator. Well, it was a big international controversy. And my party ran away from me. And Obama was the first one to run for cover and protect himself. And he made a deal. I write that in my book, Framed, Deft, and Freed. And you'll show that in a minute. I write a lot about this. And Obama made a deal. This is my strong belief. They were Bush prosecutors, so appointed by a Republican going after me. Obama then kept them on, which is unusual, because the new president will put Democratic prosecutors in. But instead, he kept them on until they got me three years later at a second trial, because they failed to convict me at a first trial. And Obama, the deal was they would leave him alone. And his deal with them was he would do nothing to rectify my troubles or more importantly, as a president, to undo a wrong. When a president sees that there's injustice that's happening somewhere, he or she has a duty to protect the rule of law and the Constitution. Obama was a very cynical guy, and he decided to cut his deal, and he kept his bargain with them. And then I ended up doing 2,896 days in prison for politics, not for crimes. And the centerpiece of the case, so-called sale of the Senate seat, was reversed by the appellate court after I spent many years in prison. And to this day, Obama never fessens up to it. But God bless President Trump. He pulled me out of jail on the 18th of February 2018, or 2020. And then five years later, five days after he was elected president the second time, he called me at my house and told me he was giving me a full and complete pardon. And he comes across real good in my book, Framed, Deft, and Freed. Obama, not so good. I come across very good, I think, because I'm, well, I'm biased. And I still have, you know, reasonably... Good self-esteem, notwithstanding the fact that I used to be inmate number 40892424 after I was governor of Illinois. But, no, it's an unusual story, and I hope people appreciate what I write about in the book. I tell stories about what it was like in prison, too, but you should ask me about that. I'm giving you long answers. No, no, no. I love this. And I so appreciate you sharing it with the audience. I want to go back to something you said. You said the FBI had been listening to you for five years. Why were they I mean, did they have a warrant to be doing that? Was this illegal wiretapping? What were they? Why were they investigating you for so long? They were investigating me for five years, which I knew. You know, when your administration is being investigated, you know this. And that's okay, because why not? If they're honest people, these prosecutors, probe the system and see if there's people around me who are maybe violating rules or breaking laws. I want to know that, too. We want to clean that up. But never in my wildest dreams did I think that they were determined to get me, no matter what. And if they couldn't find a crime, they would invent a crime. And as the time went by, it was becoming increasingly clear that's exactly what they were doing. And so what they did was, after five years, they could find nothing, nothing. And they were looking for all kinds of stuff. I mean, these people are very, very— well, they're— They're really rotten in some of the tactics that they use. You know, they tried to destroy your marriage, for example, and they're spreading rumors and these things that weren't true. They could never find any of that stuff, you know, infidelities and that sort of thing. They couldn't find that, but they were looking for it. And they would, like, float rumors out there, hoping somebody might come in and say, yeah, something happened along those lines. But none of that— none of that happened. But they go to people who you know, and they pressure them, and they find somebody who did something wrong, and then they basically say, if you tell us that he did something wrong, we'll cut you loose. This is how they operate. They're shakedown artists. They're the ones who are— some of their tactics are corrupt. Now, I understand in the real crime world, you've got to do some tough things in law enforcement to get the truth out, because in most cases, I think they are going after the right people. But these guys that have gotten themselves into the political process, these weaponized prosecutors who have engaged in lawfare— like the ones who did it to Trump, like the ones who did it to me. Some were the very same ones who did it to me, did it to President Trump. They felt they can get away with it. With a Democrat governor, let's go after a Republican president. These are the people that need to be brought to account. They're the ones who are threatening our freedoms. And look, it was a long, hard journey, and I'm so glad it's over. And I'm at peace with it because I had a chance during those 2,896 days in prison to draw closer to God. And I like to consider myself, Caleb, a tough guy. I think I kind of am, you know, but I couldn't have made it through prison if it wasn't for God and my faith in God and reading the Bible every single day for the 2,896 days I was in prison. I never read the Bible before. I would give a speech or something. I'd tell my staff to get me something from the Bible. It was kind of cynical because I believed in God always in my Christian faith, but I didn't really know it. And then there I was, all alone in that deep, dark valley. And I needed it. And I read it every day. And I know it so well. And it's given me such inspiration. And most of all, as I write in my book, it gave me the purpose I needed. It reminded me of my purpose when I was in that deep, dark valley, in that fiery furnace of affliction, which is what the prophet Isaiah calls it. that my purpose in life was no longer me. It was about my little girls who I left behind, who they took me away from, and that I needed to be strong for them. I could never give up, never give in. I couldn't let despair overwhelm me. I had to work constructively while I was in that dark valley to get better, exercise a lot, read a lot of books, read the Bible, draw closer to God, and somehow, someday, make my way back home to my kids. And you know what? That's what I've learned. If you can find purpose, even in the worst circumstances— You can get through whatever you're going through. And faith, hope, and love, which is what Paul writes in the first letters of Corinthians chapter 13. Live always in faith, hope, and love, but above all, the excellence of love. And that was what got me through it. My love for my daughters and for my wife, Patty, who defied all the odds and stayed with me. Because two days after I was arrested, Caleb, the Vegas Ozmakers were betting nine to one that the first lady of Illinois was going to dump the governor of Illinois. And she didn't. That's just sick. I got to tell you that we're taking bets on that, on somebody's life, on their marriage. I got to tell you, you know, what you just said goes to prove that God will do anything to draw you closer to him. And I'm so encouraged. You know, you're quoting the Bible. You obviously know it. Are there any specific verses that you really held on to as you were in jail, as you're languishing in prison that have continued to really just influence you? Jeremiah 29, 11, for I know the plans that I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare, not for calamity, plans to give you a future and a hope. I love that. Of course, the 23rd Psalm, if the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside quiet waters. I love the story of Joseph, chapters 38 to 50. I'll tell you a quick little prison story if you want to hear it, Caleb. Please. I wasn't familiar with that. Entered prison. And they put me in a higher prison. I'm the only governor. I never took a penny, by the way. No one even accused me that I took a penny. No one said there was a brown paper bag with cash in it. No one ever said there were gold bars in my house, like with Senator Menendez, who now is doing time for what he apparently did. No one ever said there was cash in my home. I was so fearful, because I knew they were chasing me, and my predecessor had gone to prison. And I wanted to make sure we did everything right. I never, ever had cash. Everything we paid for was in a credit card. I never wrote a check when I was governor. My wife handled all of that stuff. My point being, You know, I was being super careful, and yet still, if they want to get you, they'll get you, they'll lie about you, and they'll abuse that power they have, squeeze people. And when they can't convict you at a first trial like they couldn't with me, they try a second time, and they simply use fake law to tell a jury that what he talked about doing was illegal when it was 1,000 percent legal. That's what's so frightening about what's happening in American jurisprudence today and in the justice system today. But... I was getting a chance to finally see my family for the first time. And in that higher prison where I was, I was in there with Crips and Bloods and Cancer Disciples and Sinaloa Cartel drug dealers. who look up to the drug lord El Chapo like my young daughters look up to Taylor Swift. There were men in that prison who committed murder. There were about 400 men who were sex offenders. There were 950 guys in this prison locked in behind a barbed wire fence where they have prison guards there with machine guns, not quite the one behind you, but machine guns nonetheless. And if you go under that fence, they have the discretion to shoot you. This was real prison like in the movies. I went from having access to a 50,000 square foot governor's mansion as the governor to a six foot by eight foot prison cell with four cement walls, a big heavy iron door that shuts you in, white walls, you know, a little window with bars on it and a bunk bed where I slept on the top bunk. Real prisons like in the movies. And then when you go to get to have a chance to visit your family, which a couple of times a year, my daughters, my little girls and my wife, Patty, would come visit me. The price of admission for me was a full body cavity strip search. How about that, the indignity of that, in and out, because they want to be sure nobody smuggles anything in through different kinds of places on their body, which a lot of these guys do, because most of the guys in that prison I was with were criminals. A lot of them were drug dealers and gangbangers. As I said, some were murderers. And so during my first script search, my first visit, after six weeks of being there, couldn't wait to see my daughters and my wife and make sure I worked out extra hard that day so I can earn my visit, make sure I comb my hair extra, you know, uh, borrowed some, you, this fellow inmate of mine had these colognes that you tear out of magazines, you know, cause they don't let you get cologne, but you can wipe it on your skin. I learned one of the prison tricks, you know, and you could smell nice. And so I, he let me have a, one of those little Calvin Klein, little cologne packets that you take out of a magazine. And I could just wipe, wipe around me and I want to smell good for my wife. And So I'm in this prison room, but before I do that, I've got to be strip searched, going completely in, full body cavity. So once you're totally unclothed, then you've got to do the indignity of bending over and that sort of stuff, right? No one ever treated me that way when I was governor of Illinois. Now I'm doing that as inmate number 40892424. But while I'm doing that, there was this kind prison guard. What a great guy, black guy, a real strong Christian. And he starts to tell me about the story of Joseph in Genesis chapter 38 to 50. And that story really spoke to me because I felt that was me. You know, Joseph was accused of something he didn't do, was sent to prison. Potiphar's wife was hitting on him. Anybody who listens to the Bible knows the story. Brothers had sold him into slavery before that. He'd been betrayed by people who he loved. I knew what that was like as well. And to go to prison for something he didn't have in the wife, she lied on him. He ends up going to prison. But because God favored him and gave him this talent to be able to interpret dreams, he's discovered by the Pharaoh. One of his guys said that he could help prophesy this famine that was coming. And as a result of that, he now becomes the second most powerful guy in Egypt. I think you know the story, right, Caleb? And then the father dies, Jacob, and the brothers who did that to him. realized that their little brother now is in a position of power, and they're fearful that he's going to get them back. But he says to them, what you meant for evil, God meant for good. And, well, of course, I love that story. And once I was fully dressed, I heard the whole thing because he told me it. And then I was telling that story to my little girls in that visiting room that very day. And then the next day, you get three days with them, Friday night, Saturday afternoon for a few hours, and then Sunday afternoon at 3 o'clock. That's when the visit ends, and then you're not going to see him for a long time. And that's always a terrible experience. I write about that, too, in the book. But the very next day, I went to the prison library and began writing that story of Joseph to my daughters so that they can hopefully get the inspiration that I was getting. And that's one of my favorite stories in the Bible, you know, next to the story of Jesus and guarding Gethsemane and how he, you know, was so afraid of what was going to happen because he knew it. And at one moment, it happened. through what he does so heroically. Of course, that's, to me, the greatest story of them all. And he was the greatest of them all. But second, in my mind, is the story of Joseph. I thank you for sharing that story. It's a beautiful story. And I hope that it, I mean, it obviously uplifted you, but I hope it uplifted your daughters as well, as they're going through this experience, because a lot of people don't consider that. Yes, you're in prison, but your family's in a prison also. they've had their father stripped away from them, they've had their husband stripped away from them, and in your case, for crimes that you didn't commit. And so I really hope that this Bible story that everybody's familiar with not only uplifted you, but also your daughters. Well, it certainly did, you know, and it was very, look, it was awful. I mean, and let me say this, Caleb, my family and I know that there are Hundreds of thousands, millions of people out there who've gone through a lot more difficult stuff than what we went through. I mean, this was not good. But I can't even imagine what a parent goes through when they lose a child. There's all kinds of other kinds of examples of crushing adversity. Someone is suddenly paralyzed. A police officer is shot and paralyzed. I was just at an event, fundraising event, supporting a police officer here in Chicago. It was shot and paralyzed by a gangbanger, a guy that was released from prison early by the Democratic no-bail policies, sickening. And this police officer now is paralyzed from the waist down. And, anyway, so, the troubles other people have are far greater than what my family and I had to go through. So, we have some perspective on that. And I write about that in the last chapter of my book, Chapter 23, What Did I Learn? By the way, that's the only chapter where I don't use any kind of profanity. I should warn your listeners and viewers. I use profanity in the book because it's authentic. You know, I'm in prison. That's how these guys talk. And frankly, when I was in private conversations with the governor, I would sometimes use it. I'm known for this stuff in gold. I'm not giving it up for nothing. I didn't do it publicly. But the only chapter I don't use that is in the 23rd chapter because I talk a lot about God and my relationship to God and how that helped me. And I felt like you can't put the F word in the same sentence as God. That would be sacrilegious. So I took it out. Originally, I had it in there. But when I read it, I took that out in the editing. But I also talk about how gratitude can change attitude and how the recognition, too, that as bad as things might be, and, you know, let's face it, Governor Bill Nye, top of a high mountain, inmate number 40892424 serving a 14-year prison sentence. That's what it would have been had Trump not rescued me eight years into that journey. I mean, that's rock bottom. And even in rock bottom, you can find not just purpose because you want to survive for your loved ones, children, your wife, but you can also find purpose when you realize you still have a lot of blessings in your life, even in a bad place like that. Because I had my daughters that I loved. I love more than me. And my wife, I love more than me. I would die for her. So I'm the selfish one in the relationship, right? But when you realize those sorts of things, when you're in the midst of adversity, and I hope my book can help people who are going through their hard times find ways where they can get the inspiration or the example to say that, hey, look, if he got through that, I might be able to get through that too. And in that last chapter, I talk a lot about the things that helped me. And some of the books that I read outside of the Bible, stories of historical figures who went through crushing adversity, but for the adversity and the calamity that came into their lives, they would not then go on later on to do great things like Franklin Roosevelt, one of our great presidents, who was stricken with polio. He was paralyzed and living 10 years trying to figure out a way to get his life back together, written off politically, becomes the president of the United States, and literally through his strength and overcoming fear, was able to lead our country through economic paralysis during the Great Depression and then later on during the World War II. Let me pause you real quick, sir. I apologize, but we hit that heartbreak. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to continue with our guest. Hey, this is Caleb Collier with Church and State, and I want to tell you about a great product, Liberty Cigars. I know for myself, there's nothing grander than sitting around a campfire, having a great theology discussion with a group of men while smoking a cigar. That's why I love Liberty Cigars. Every cigar has a story to tell. 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And I know I plug this a lot, but Mark 37, guys, a ghost phone, a phone that doesn't actually spy on you or like in my case, the laptop that I'm using right now, a laptop that doesn't spy on you. Go check this stuff out. You're using Graphene OS or Linux. It's the best of the best. You can actually check it yourself because it's open source system. But I think everybody in the audience, I think our guest needs a ghost phone so that people can't spy on him. All right. So go check him out. Mark37. com. Use the promo code church and state. You're going to get a discount and you'll help support us. And I'm just going to remind you real quick one more time. please hit the donate button for us to keep conversations like this happening. All right, with that, let's go back to our guest, Rod Blagojevich, the former governor of Illinois, the 40th governor of Illinois, author, speaker, podcast host. I can't wait to get my hands on his book. I'm excited for this. But let me ask you this, sir, as we bring you back in. Were you surprised that Donald Trump, a Republican, right, the opposing side of the political party, is the one that actually pardoned you? No, Caleb, I wasn't, and I'll tell you why. I write about that, too, in my book, Brain, Debt, and Freed. I got to know President Trump on his television show, Celebrity Apprentice. He saw me on television fighting back when this all happened. I think he saw me on the David Letterman show or something, and I was doing stuff that no one really does. They came after me like they did. They had all this power. I was getting thrown out of office. My party was quick to abandon me. Obama made his deal to protect himself. They all protected Obama and dumped me, and I refused to give in and I refused to stay quiet because I did not do it. And I was more than just a guy, you know, an everyday citizen who was hit with something like this. And I was more than a businessman who was hit with something like this. I was the duly elected governor of Illinois twice. I swore an oath on the Holy Bible to serve, protect and defend the Constitution. Now, this may sound like a bunch of political baloney from another guy who was a politician. And I'm not claiming to be some choir boy, but it has to mean something. And I used to yearn, gee, somebody show me a crime that I committed. I'll accept responsibility. I'll plead guilty. It'll be easier for my family and me. I'll do what I got to do and I'll come back home. But there was none. I knew it. And those people who were doing it to me knew it. And what they were doing was assaulting the Constitution, the rule of law and the freedom, not just of me, but other people. Later on, they would do the same thing to Trump. So there was no way I was going to give in to that. So not only that, but I was fighting back. because somebody had to expose what they were doing. And I was all over television nationwide all the time at that time. And as Trump said, when he was asked by David Letterman later on in the show, why do you got this guy on your show? Trump said, ratings. And then he went on to say, plus he said he didn't do it. And so he had me on Celebrity Apprentice in October of 2009 is when we filmed that. Now, back then, think about this, 2009, he's Donald Trump. This guy's larger than life. He's Billionaire real estate development developer, hugely successful, mega successful businessman. He's got this tremendously successful show on national television called Celebrity Apprentice, which incidentally I never watched because I was busy being governor of Illinois. But I'm in a place where neither my wife nor I can make a living. Nobody will touch us. We're lepers. We're literally lepers. I was an honest governor. I'm like the only guy in Illinois politics who didn't get rich in this business. We have daughters in our private school. We have to pay for that. We have our home. We have a mortgage and no income. And so I learned a couple of lessons. Number one, one place where if you have that on you, you might be able to make a living in entertainment. That's the one place where they'll give you a chance to make some money. And I was typecast as such a scoundrel that the offers I was getting for like television shows and things like that, you know, were paid well. I was offered more than six figures to do an HBO show for. called The Bunny Ranch. It was about a whorehouse in Henderson, Nevada, where I would be the greeter, right? Well, I turned that down. I needed the money, but I'm not going to do that. I've got young daughters. So that was out. Then I was offered a game show. The show ultimately became Cheaters. It's a show that some of the inmates used to watch. I remember seeing that thinking, wow, I could have been that host for a little while anyway. But I turned that one down because I didn't feel comfortable doing the role where you're a guy going around with a camera, catching the guy cheating on his wife. Then you got the wife there. I said, look, I'm not comfortable with that. You got a show where a pretty girl spins a wheel and I do trivia questions. I think I could do that. And they said, no, we don't see you that way. We think you're perfect for this sleazy guy on a show like Cheaters, right? So I said, no, I'm not going to do that. And then a wholesome show came around. It was Trump. Offered me a chance to be on Celebrity Apprentice. It paid some money. You can raise money for charity that you care about. And see, this is the hand of God, Caleb. How did that happen? where my life would converge with Donald Trump's on a television show of his that I never watched. And that years later, he would be so kind to me. You see, the thing was, he was so good to me on the show. He would tell me off camera, you're getting screwed. I love how you're fighting back. You got a lot of guts. He would say on camera, this guy's got a lot of guts. In fact, when he fired me, you know, he says, you know, you got a lot of guts, but Rod, you're fired, right? And so kind. I read about that in the book. I read about kind stories to how he was to my little girls when he met them. And, uh, so I knew him, Caleb, a little bit from that television show in October, 2009. And, uh, and then when he fired me, which he was right to do, because the men, we had a project on Harry Potter and the women beat us. And I was the project manager. So unless I sell somebody out, which I wasn't, I was going to get fired. And I did, um, who'd have thought years would go by. He'd be the president of the United States, right? I mean, this was seven years later. He's running for president eight years later, he's elected. And then, you know, uh, Three years after that, he sends me home. He fired and freed the same guy. Only President of American History did do that. Even Lincoln never did that. I love that. I love that story. Fired and then freed you. It's a great way of looking at things. One of the things that I got to ask you about, because I know my audience is going to kick me if I don't. You went after Obama. Now, Obama first went after you and he threw you completely under the bus. And you've already explained the deals that he made. But, you know, post post this event, you you dropped some pretty heavy bombs on Obama and revealed quite a lot about who he was as a person, his character, or maybe I should say lack thereof. What? Was it just kind of like a tit for tat or were you just like, you know, I'm going to tell the truth about everything here? Well, that's a good question. You know, I've known Obama personally since 1995. I mean, before neither one of us were anybody. You know, we were just two young guys trying to get ahead in Chicago. And he was on the south side of town and I was on the north side of town. He was a Sox fan and I was a Cubs fan. He was a community activist. I was active in my community. And by the way, I don't think he really was a community activist. I think he showed up to one meeting one time. David Ashrod, his consultant, who also worked for me, told him, call yourself a community activist because it polls well. I don't think the guy spent any time out there in the hood helping anybody because he's a very selfish guy. I know him that way. He wasn't a bad guy, but I knew him that way. And then we were both going up pretty fast in politics. I was a little ahead of him at first. And I was elected in 2002 the first Democratic governor in 26 years in Illinois. And then ever since then, it's been all Democrats except for one interregnum of a Republican in 2014. And then Obama two years later ran for the Senate. And Obama was very clear about, you know, back then nobody in Illinois was getting elected with these crazy last names like Blagojevich or Obama. We had pretty much all anglicized names. And then people that gave me in the beginning no chance to win because of my last name and some other things. And Obama had the same issue. But, you know, the country has changed and the demographics have changed and people are more used to, you know, guys with things like us. And so I got elected the first two years before him. And for just a brief moment, believe it or not, Caleb, I was being talked about as a potential presidential candidate, which to me was a matter of profound amazement because, frankly, I didn't even know if I could be, you know, I got elected governor. Now the question is, what do you do now? How do you do this job? I just don't want to screw the whole thing up. I think I was a great governor, but it ended up like I screwed it up, which I didn't because those people did it to me. But Obama then came two years later and ran for the Senate, and he won. And then he gave that speech between the primary and the general election in Boston that catapulted him and then went on to become the president. So in some ways, our careers were sort of parallel, and the trajectory was very similar. The irony is, and I write about this too in my book, The better his aspirations for president were, the worse it became for me, because we both had similar relationships with certain people. And one in particular was this guy named Tony Rescoe, who was really a good guy. He was a businessman. He got in trouble. He was convicted of stuff. He was very close to Obama personally, bought Obama a lot. You know, literally bought the guy three quarters of a million dollar lot next to a mansion the Obamas bought for themselves in 2005 after Obama was elected to the Senate. Obama didn't have enough money for the adjoining lot, so he asked his friend Tony Rescoe, a friend of mine too, would you buy me a lot next to it? And so Rescoe buys him that. Almost a million bucks he spends to help Obama. And so we both had the Tony thing together. And the feds were going after Tony, and they wanted to then get him to lie on me and Obama. And he wouldn't do it. And, you know, whether he did something wrong or not, I think some of the things he was convicted of may not be crimes, but let's assume they were. Tony's a stand-up guy. He did four years in solitary confinement out of the eight years he did in prison. because he wouldn't lie about Obama and me. And he sent a letter to a federal sentencing judge saying he won't lie about either one of us. He was never involved in any wrongdoing. The point I'm making is Obama let that guy sit in solitary confinement, didn't lift a finger to help him, and then wouldn't lift a finger to help him after he was safely reelected in 2012, when he could have easily made life a little bit less difficult for his old friend, Tony Oresko, who did a lot more than just buy him a lot. a property, did a lot more, raised a bunch of money for him and all kinds of other things personally. In fact, he called me to ask me as the governor to call the University of Chicago hospitals to get Michelle Obama a job there for $ 300, 000 a year, which I did. So, you know, he's a very cold, selfish guy, Obama. And, you know, he was all right when we were together in politics. And then when the— I don't want to swear here, right? I can't swear, right? I mean, we can edit it out. It's a Christian show. Oh, no, it's a Christian show. No, no, I don't want to swear. No, and when the troubles came, here's something from the Bible. When my calamity came on like a whirlwind, Obama ran for the hills to protect it himself. And, you know, I understand that. You know, I understand how a lot of the people did that because it's a very difficult thing. They have families. They have children. They have to choose between that, cutting their losses, and the guy they worked for, the guy they were friends with, or the guy they had a relationship with. Obama had a presidency to protect. That's valid. But there were times after the storm was over where he could have easily helped Tony Resco. He could have been kind to him. And instead of Tony doing eight years in prison, he could have done six. And he certainly could have helped me, which he didn't do. And he refused to do it. And I had people go into him, including David Axelrod and others, who were Democratic congressmen who I served with. And Obama had no intention of doing anything. And I think it's because he made a deal with the feds that he would basically sell me out to protect himself. And interestingly enough, the tale of two presidents, which is all over this book, the difference between Obama and Trump, is one month after Trump was president, literally, February 2017. He hasn't been president for one month. I'm called into the case manager's office in prison. And they tell me the White House has asked for your records, your prison records. They want to see if you've been well behaved here because I think they're contemplating clemency for you. And boy, I'll tell you, that told me two things. How great is Trump? What a guy. I mean, what a good guy to remember from the show back then and actually see it wrong and actually immediately try to address it when he had so many other big issues ahead of him. And then what about Obama? They never did that when Obama was president. He was never interested in doing anything. It was all about protecting himself and not being criticized for anything. Of course, yeah. It stands to reason. Well, excuse me. I'm getting over an illness. I want to make sure to promote your book. So I want to bring this up. Chris, if you could bring up the book here. I want to give you the time, the last couple of minutes we have, because I know you're on a hard break here yourself. But tell people why they should get framed, effed, and freed because this– I mean the title alone makes me want to pick it up. I got to be honest with you. No, and I want to apologize to your Christian viewers, and I understand the skittishness about that middle word. And yet that happened because I was joking around with the publisher, and I said, hey, look, I'd like to call it that. And then he laughed, and I didn't think– I thought that was fine. It was kind of funny. I never thought he would think that this should be the title of the book. So a month came by, and I finally finished the book. It took me four years to write it, by the way, because it was brutal to have to relive this. And every one of the words in that book was actually written by me, for better or for worse. I like to say it took me two boxes of crayons, primary colors, to write the book. I'm not an author. But it's an honest story. It's authentic. I write about not just the politicians. Obama's in the book. Trump's in the book. I'm in the book, of course. But so is Sox and Flick and Smelly and... Stinky and Sharky and Hollywood and G and D and Mr. B and all these characters that I had time with, you know, gangster disciples and Crips and Bloods and bank robbers, men who committed murder and others. I tell all kinds of prison stories about that. And then I spent a lot of time, of course, talking about my faith in God, especially that last chapter when I talk about how important that was to me. And so I would say to anybody who's interested in reading a book that might be helpful to them if they're facing troubles, I think my book could be helpful because, again, as I said, other people, a lot of people have it worse than what we had it. But that was no easy journey. My odyssey was a tough one. And God got me through it, my faith in God and the purpose that I had, which is the love I have for my children and my wife. And a basic F you to the people who did it to me because I was never going to give in to that kind of corrupt weaponization that will destroy our country. And in a weird way, I know that some people would probably mock me for saying this, but standing up to them, because the scriptures teach us this too, resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. Standing up to them was an act of patriotism on my part. No way was I going to give up and give in and admit to something that wasn't a crime so that they can just go away and never have to be held accountable. Now, my Christian faith requires me to be forgiving. Right, Caleb? We know that. Yes. That's what the Christian faith requires. And I accept it, and I'm doing my best to follow it. And I forgive everybody involved in my story, good, bad, or ugly. Accept those people, because I don't want to lie to God. I don't wish them wickedness, but I do wish them justice. And as the prophet Micah says, I'm quoting a lot of the Bible. I hope you don't mind. Not at all. But what is it that the Lord requires of us but to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God? And holding them accountable serves a much bigger purpose than me. It's about holding prosecutors with unlimited resources and uncontrolled power accountable to the rule of law. They're supposed to be the guardians of the rule of law to protect and execute the rule of law, not to abuse it for politics. That's not America. That's KGB, Soviet-style police state politics. And that's the sort of thing today's Democratic Party is all about. God forbid they get power. You know, I want to stand up and cheer, honestly. That is a great closing statement. Excuse me. Like I said, I cannot wait to read your book. I can't wait to get my hands on this. And I got to tell you, I love your honesty. I love your honesty with God. Like, hey, I'm still struggling here, God. That's the kind of Christianity we need. Honesty there. And I love that warrior spirit. I got to say that, sir. That's exactly what we need for this country. A warrior who's going to come in and demand justice. I support you. Mr. Governor, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. I know you got to get going here in just a minute here, but loved having you on the program. Would love to have you back. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Caleb. I'd love to come back. I thank you for what you're doing to protect freedom. I mean that. Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. All right. Well, there you go, ladies and gentlemen. I got to tell you, I would agree with his statement. One of the better governors that we've had in the history of the United States. A real pleasure to have him on the show. Go get his book, ladies and gentlemen. Please. I think it's going to be a benefit for all of you. The Caleb Collier Show of Church and State Media is brought to you in part by Colonial Life Spokane, Independent Agents, Finders Insurance and Mark37. com. I'm Caleb Collier. I was born for a storm. Welcome to the fire. Hey, this is Caleb Collier with Church and State, and I want to tell you about Methylene Blue. For a long time now, you've seen the Maha people using Methylene Blue. I thought I'd give it a try. You know what? It helped me considerably, not only with mental clarity, but also with insomnia. Now, you got to be careful with Methylene Blue because the market is filled with with counterfeit products. But Best 365 Labs is the greatest methylene blue on the market. 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