Matter of Facts: Neo Fudd Lore

Welcome back to the Matter Facts Podcast on the Prepper Broadcasting Network. We talk prepping guns and politics every week on iTunes, Stitcher, and Spotify. Go check out our content at mofpodcast.com on Facebook or Instagram. You can support us via Patreon or by checking out our affiliate partners. I'm your host, Phil Ravele. Andrew and Nick are on the other side of the mic, and here's your show. Welcome back to MatterFacts Podcast. Phil and Nick are back behind the mic for the least professional podcast on the internet, a title I am not giving up without a fight because I hate professionalism. I'm here to have fun and cause trouble. Good. I'm here to distract Phil from the admin work. Which is not going to work because we have topics we have to get to and we have to do the admin work first. I would say we got to keep the lights on around here, but nobody pays us for any of this stuff. So, you know, it just is what it is. But if you would like to chip a couple bucks in the tip jar every month and become a patron, that link's in the show description. It keeps the lights on, and it keeps this from being a line item on the Ravele family budget, which makes me and my wife a lot happier. That way I get to indulge in stupidity for free. At least free to me. If you'd rather buy merch for The Vibes for the Southern Gals, that link is also in the show description. And if you want to prevent war crimes with Disaster Coffee, use code MOF, get 5% off of your order today. And I mean, I don't know. I feel like coffee is necessary to prevent war crimes, although it could also enhance. Them just depending on things. Can coffee be used to commit war crimes? I'm fairly certain you could waterboard a person with coffee. It's not water. I mean, there's water in it. Then beer is hydrating liquid. Yes. Good. I didn't realize you were from Wisconsin. Your terms are acceptable. You know you've been in Wisconsin too long when you switched to beard and sober up. Oh, great googly moogly. We have people horsing around in the chat. Kyle, I know we are not singing the song. I was explicitly told by a choir and band instructor that I should not do anything musical. I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. I inherited 0% of the musical ability in this family. Wife can sing. Daughter can play the guitar. Phil just bobs his head and taps his foot. That's the limit that I'm going to have to adhere to. All right. Mini topic and then big topic. Nick, how does it feel to be vindicated that after years of being the weirdo telling everybody you should have 90 days of food and water in your house in case something weird happens, now we have governments across the West telling everybody to stock up? Well, you know how I like to point the finger at government and say you're just a bunch of ass covering petty tyrants? No, no, I've asked covering petty tyrants. I'm not, not you, not Nicholas. I don't believe I've ever heard you call government ass covering petty tyrants. Here's the thing. The only reason they are doing this right now is number one, because we have a pretty interesting cyber crisis going on in the cybersecurity world where we have what may or may not be one of the biggest security issues in cybersecurity for a very long time. Um, Some of the friends of mine that work in the IT sector are very concerned and continue to be very concerned. AI leakage? Or are we talking about the PHP vulnerability? Well, the PHP vulnerability combined with AI leakage, combined with AI reverse engineering programs, and then giving you the full backend code so that we can have all of the backdoors without having to look for them. Yes. We have this rolling crisis. in security and tech right now. And we're even seeing a lot of banks, US Bank came out today and published that they're seeing AI agents unauthorized in random people's bank accounts. So it's not great. We also have a continuing land war in Europe. We have escalating tensions among a number of countries. We have what looks like the Let's call it not a war with Iran starting to escalate again, or at least building up to the next phase of escalation. We have what could be a fuel crisis starting to snowball. I mean, we already have pretty high fuel prices in the U.S., highest we've ever seen in my state for sure. Still doesn't compare to the inflation-adjusted Obama-era gas prices. But there's a lot of reasons to be concerned right now. And look, I think what we have is the government going, hey, you know, this doesn't look great. Maybe we should tell people to do something so we can't say we didn't. So here's my theory. First of all, with the understanding that I would rather like crap in my hands and clap than trust government. Yes. At any level. of any administration, of either party, for any reason, for any length of time. Yes. So that is my baseline, and I have to be honest about it, that is my bias that I come from. But, I. Am going to draw the direct comparison between government telling everybody, you should stock up for 90 days, and back during the Cuban Missile Crisis, where government told everybody, hey, if a nuclear weapon goes off, hide under your desk. Because, I don't believe that government will ever, like, try to do the right thing and prepare people unless it is because they understand that the scale of the potential problem is so great. They would rather people have some semblance of comfort because an authority figure is told what to do, even if the thing they've been told to do doesn't actually help much. Or at the very least is a negligible benefit. Yeah. Well, but you and I know this, like there's enough people out there and human nature says that if a person authority tells you to do something, you get comfort from that because you're like, okay, I know. What to do now. Even if you don't do it, you get comfort from it. Even if you don't do it, even if it doesn't work, even if like 15 milliseconds of common sense would tell you it's not going to work, it's irrelevant. The average person trusts authority figure, and the thing they don't do is uncertainty. So government telling everybody prep with canned goods and bottle of water for 90 days might as well be telling them to go buy grocery stores out of toilet paper before we had COVID. It doesn't matter. It's the masks and the social distancing all over again. It is, tell people what to do so they don't freak out, even if the thing you tell them doesn't do spit. Yeah, I think that's very fair. I think that's very fair. I mean, they had to say something. Because the writing's on the wall. To be fair, to be fair to the government, the whole 90-day self-reliance military base thing is just an extension of a prior agenda that was trying to get them up to a slightly higher level of self-reliance and this is not a no do it now this is a hey this is a thing a goal we want to work towards in the next however many years the government does these initiatives with the military all the time and we never really hear about them unless they're sensationalizable like like this But yes, we're just correct. 14 days as of 20, 2017 was the previous initiative. So this is just an outgrowth of that. You're a goddamn military base. If you can't handle 90 days of being cut off and surrounded, what are you doing? Yeah. I mean, quite frankly, if you can't lock your, if you can't lock the front and back door of your post and just exist and for 90 days without getting trucks and deliveries and everything, then our military readiness is so much worse than I ever thought it was. And I don't think it's great to begin with. There were sieges of fortresses in World War I that lasted months. Months. To almost a year in some cases. Now, granted, we don't sit our military in fortresses anymore because we can just bomb those off the face of the earth. Pretty much what happened to those fortresses in World War I as well. But still, how in the world is it in any way acceptable to anyone that understands military conflict to have a military base that can't handle being on its own for more than a couple weeks? Yeah. So Kyle's asking, do I think it has anything to do with the midterms? Like Trump's saying, if something happens, he can blame it on the Democrats. I really don't think this has anything to do with the midterms. I think the timing is remarkably convenient. I bet if we look at when this initiative was actually signed, it was months ago and it just got leaked now. Probably. But all that being said, a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. I mean, if you're out there in listener land and up until now you thought the preppers were the crazy people with tinfoil on their heads, this might be your sign that maybe, just maybe, it's not completely foolhardy for you to have a little bit of extra food and water in your house for reasons. Well, look, people are claiming this is just another in a long line of the pattern of European countries. stating that their citizens need to have so many days worth of food and supplies laid up. Yeah. The reason why Europe is all saying that is because they are experiencing rioting all over the goddamn place. France, Italy. They also have a very large, angry, militarized neighbor that... They do, and they also have a serious saber-rattling. An imported, militarized, young male population of a conflicting ideology. Kyle said Phil did it to sell coffee. Good, good, yes. I mean, look, if this being leaked causes you to go buy, like, you know, Seamus Hill Promotion, three or four bags of bunker beans at five pounds of whack, and get a method to roast them and grind them so that you can have coffee on tap in an emergency, hallelujah, go forth, do great things. What happens if. You brew unroasted coffee beans? It makes you sick as hell. Really? Yes. I didn't know that. I know very little about green coffee. So with green coffee beans, you can drink what's called white coffee, and that is like, If you roast the coffee until literally, you've heard me refer to coffee like it cracks when it gets to a certain point. If the literal first crack you hear, you shut it down, that is called white coffee. It is extraordinarily light. It's not like it tastes watery. It's just, you've heard me talk about how the taste between light roast and dark roast, like the darker you get, you get more bitter. Yeah, different flavors, yeah. And if it's too light, it gets more towards the sour end of the spectrum. Some people will refer to that as a very grassy taste. White coffee pushes that grassy oats. It literally tastes grassy because you're drinking water that's been filtered through basically a dried grain. Interesting. Some people swear by it. Unroasted makes you sick. Unroasted, I have not verified this, but I've heard this from multiple people that I trust their judgment. But apparently drinking coffee brewed from unroasted coffee beans will make you very unhappy when the bill comes due. Kyle, you can absolutely just mow down on roasted coffee beans. Yeah, and as a matter of fact. Chocolate chip espresso cookies was a mistake for my sister to drop off at work. I did not know they were espresso coffees. I ate seven in a row. Also, I've had chocolate-dipped coffee beans on occasion. You know, I'm going to tell you right now, I am not allowed to have chocolate-dipped coffee beans. I will eat the whole bag. The only real problem with eating coffee beans is that, like, bear in mind that, like, think about when you brew coffee and you have all the wet grounds left over, like that's the non-soluble part. So you're going to have like that grittiness in your mouth until you clean it out. You do. But yes, you can, you can totally just like, I like coffee. Yeah. If you like coffee and if you, you want like that crunchy texture, I mean, it's worth trying. Sometimes if I just want to check, see what the roast level is, I'll just pop one of my mouth and chew on it. Yeah. But don't, For the love of God, do that with an unroasted coffee bean because it's so much more dense, it can crack your teeth. Ooh, that's a problem. Don't do that. That's a problem. All right, let's get to main topic. Last time we talked about FUD lore. This time we're talking about Neo FUD lore. The new FUD. The new FUD. And the audio listeners are totally missing the AI that made a new version of Elmer Fudd with an AR-15. Terrible trigger discipline. Terrible trigger discipline, as is typical of most of the proffers of Neo-Fuddler. Yeah. So, we have to explain what Neo-Fuddler is, first and foremost. And the best I can come up with between, like, searching and my own experience is, like, it is all gun culture viewed through the lens of self-defense... And I want to say like practicality, but that's almost in air quotes. But it's like everything in gun culture is to be mega serious and it is to be what is newest and most efficient. And everything else is stupid. It's viewed from the lens that all of you are special operators a lot of the time. It assumes that you are going to be in the same position as a tier one operator. Or you should be. Right. Or you should be at least that skilled. Yeah, that picture does slap. I mean, if we can fix the trigger discipline, fantastic. Yeah, but I mean, it's a mind frame that really eschews the idea that you'd shoot for fun, you would have fun guns. If it is not meant to be used. In a serious fashion. So my Cobra that looks like a 1980s Bond villain... Would not be acceptable to them. No, of course not. I mean, my. 22s wouldn't be acceptable. My 1911 is old-fashioned. My revolver is an antique. Like, all those things get thrown out the window, and it even goes down into gear. It does. You know, I've got... I've talked about it on the show before, like, but I have an old Vietnam-era Chai Com chest rig that I, you know, took it apart and put Velcro and everything on it and modern buckles and everything, and I modernized it. But the neophobe would look at that and be like, well, you should have this new chest rig from this manufacturer. That's the high-speed thing all the Special Forces guys are using. Or all the gun tubers are using or all the influencers on Instagram are using. Yeah. You see the pattern developing here. Mm-hmm. It's almost the cultural reaction and inverse of the FUD. Yeah, and I think that is the lens through which to view this topic. What the FUDs did was they clinged to that which was established even when it was very obviously being supplanted by newer technology. And now we're seeing the other side of that where people are saying everything that is new is better than what is old, even of what is old in air quotes is like six months old and it's like it's like the conversation you and i had about like um when we upgraded plate carriers to rebels raiders if you're upgrading out of something like the old condor the steel plates that i had from or or. My my rig that was literally falling apart because the the fishing line i had used to stitch it back together had. Degraded Yeah, so we were making upgrades in gear, but we were upgrading out of... The gap between what we had and what we bought was gigantic. Yeah. But the NeoFUD is going to. Make the argument. What we had was either non-functional or completely obsolete. Yeah, but the NeoFUD would make the argument that, well, these things are six months old and no special operators ever used them, and this is what the Tier 1 guys use, and that's what we should upgrade to next. It's like this asinine, constant, rampant consumerism... based upon what they deem is best by criteria that best I can tell really boils down to some cool guy, some guy that's cooler than me used it. So it must make me, it will make me cooler if I have it too. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Check the comments and then we'll go for it. Rachel saying unroasted coffee beans cause upset stomach. Well, Upset stomach is putting it mildly compared to what I heard. I've heard upchucks and downchucks. Joe's saying it's 1980s FUD, shoot from the hip. And Proud Texan's saying, are you saying Neo FUD equals Tactical Timmy? No. Not exactly. Tactical, like. It kind of depends on how he wants to define tactical Timmy. I think I know where he's going, and that Venn diagram has a lot of overlap. It does. It does. But I don't think that's exactly what we're going for here. No. Let's peel a couple of these open, and we will elucidate. So let's start with the one that Nick himself is going to have to eat. With a spoon. Revolvers, lever guns, or stupid. Even though you haven't called revolvers stupid, you've just said that you don't like the way they shoot. Well, yes. I want to love revolvers in a way that I don't think is appropriate to express in public. You're among friends. Look, man, they just look so cool, and they're so clockwork neat. The. The mechanical enthusiast in my soul wants to love revolvers so bad, but every time i shoot one it's just so disappointing so it doesn't it doesn't do what i want and i can't i can't figure out. How to make it do that so So the revolver is the old classic car with the four-mil carburetor on that makes all the freaking amazing noises. It does. It does. And it looks amazing. And it just sucks to daily drive. Yes. And there lies the thing of it. Very few people would insist that a revolver is a better daily driver than your average semi-automatic handgun. I know people that run them. frighteningly well i'm not one of them i've. Been sending you instagram videos of a guy that's trying to uh chase michelek oh he's getting close he's getting real close. But i think the reason why i latched on to this one specifically is because like the neo-fud is going to make the argument that revolvers and lever guns had their day in the 19th century and that's where they belong and You can make a ton of really good arguments for why lever guns and revolvers are still useful in 2026, but the simplest solution is they're freaking fun. Have you heard how quiet a suppressed lever gun is? Yes. For a hunting rifle? A bush rifle? Suppressed. 30- 30 shooting heavyweight subs?. 45- 70 subs suppressed? it's awful hard to argue with the suppressor performance on those things because you have all the benefits of a bolt action with more rapid followup shots and not having to come off the site. It's yeah. I mean, for, for a lot of, to me, lever guns are what they are and they're, and what they are is exactly what they were at the time they were originally brought into existence. They were, it was the, it was the idea that if you, You wanted something that could shoot the intermediate cartridge out of the day. Because that's what it was. This was a step down from everything that a bolt action would shoot, for the most part. True. At the time, yeah. To have more capacity, to have faster follow-up shots, smaller, handier carbines for cavalry use. Yep. And for all those reasons, a lever action makes a really fine gun. It does. Is it better than an AR-15 at everything? Absolutely not. Is it better than a full-power battle rifle at anything? Not really. Except for weight. No, no, no. I was about to say, weight. Yeah. Recoil. Yeah, there's a few things, but. I guess what I'm saying is, like, the same thing we've said in the past about how everything is situational, everything has nuance. I can't agree with the idea that we take revolvers and lever guns and just throw them in the trash just because they're older designs. And, like I've argued multiple times in the past... For every reasonable handgun or semi-automatic handgun that fires any kind of a remotely high-powered cartridge, there's a revolver out there that fires something bigger. So if portable horsepower is the thing you're after, if you need something to keep a Kodiak or a Grizzly off your back. Buy a shotgun. If you need something that is able to be carried on your person with one hand. That's fine, but man, I know a few people that have spent time in Alaska as fly fishing guides and as hunting guides, and every single one of them will tell you, if you're worried about bears, buy a shotgun. I mean... A revolver is not necessarily going to stop a grizzly bear. A shotgun has a way higher likelihood to do so. I will agree with you on that, but... If I had to pick a sidearm for going around in grizzly country. Sure. It'd be, it would be a heavy barrel revolver. Yeah, probably. It'd be a 44 Magnum, a 454, a 460. It would be something big and nasty that could drop something much, much larger than what you can get out of a 10 millimeter. Sure. And please don't bring up his 50 action express that, that that's an edge case from hell. Well, 50 AE is still a weaker cartridge than like a force, uh, a 460 Rolland or, or. Uh, you're thinking 460 smith and wesson. Oh yeah 460 smith and wesson. 460 460 ralland i want to say was on par with 44 magnum just barely in terms of. Power i might i'm thinking probably 460 smith and wesson 460 smith and wesson or 454 casul because that's getting up there too that's a pretty long case so bear in mind and i know you're not a revolver guy so i'll spoil the i'll spoil the secret for you The 460 Smith & Wesson can chamber a. 454 and a. 45 Long Colt because they're all the same dimensions or just longer. So a. 454 Casull is a short. 460 Smith & Wesson Magnum. Is that where that one comes from? Okay, I thought they were very similar. They are very similar in the same way that. 38 Special and. 37 Magnum are very similar, or. 44 Special and. 44 Magnum. A. 460 Smith & Wesson is just a. 44 with a boner. Nice. I like it. And, you know, like rifle pressures. And if I recall correctly, that cartridge actually uses rifle primers. I believe it does. It's a horse. Because you end up blowing out pistol primers because of the thinner brass. Yeah. Proud Texan is reminding us that lever guns were built before bolt guns because he was around back then. Trying to think if there's a bolt gun. Okay. Depends. Do you count in fire bolt guns as bolt guns? Because the French pin fires came before lever actions. Hmm. I'll let you to argue that out. Cause it's not cause it, in all fairness, it's not a lockup bolt action. It's not a positive locking bolt action with locking lugs. So it's not a true bolt action. But it's on the edge. Joe makes a valid point. French anything does not count. Fair enough. Stuart, I'll let you have that one. I mean, I always argue that the greatest part of France immigrated to the U.S. They did. Largely Louisiana. Yeah. Actually, we tried to go to Canada and then the British pissed us off. Prostitutes and thieves. The best part of France. Prostitutes and thieves, man. All right. So right behind lever guns and revolvers are stupid. Steel guns are stupid and heavy in, in, in the world of polymer frame, 20 round capacity, you know, all the wonder nines now, all the cool kids have polymer frame guns. I have been seeing this weird resurgence where people are going back to the old ways and people are like hunting down Smith and Wesson 5906s and some of your old metal framed guns. People are actually looking really hard at a lot of the old CZs because they they're steel and aluminum framed and learning to appreciate those old guns a little bit more. There is a lot to be said for the weight and recoil reduction of full metal frame firearms over the polymer wonder nines. If you take a comparable size and we're going size only. So similar barrel length, similar grip length, similar profile and width to the guns, polymer gun, Versus a full metal frame gun, whether it's aluminum, scandium, steel, whatever. The metal frame guns are going to recoil less because there's more mass there to eat that inertia. Yeah. Stewart saying there is a reason you can get aluminum frames for Glocks. Yeah, you can. I've actually thought about making my own, but I think Glocks are illegal in Illinois now. I'm not sure. Nobody's sure. Nobody really cares either. Let's be real. Yeah. But I guess this is another element where like, you know, the, the Neo FUD is going to turn his nose up at everything that was invented before the year 2000, just because of, just because it's older, just because it's perceived to be less, it's old, it's heavy. 1911s are old and heavy and, low capacity and therefore they're stupid too. I'm just going to put all these things together. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, there, there's a lot of problems with the 1911 platform as much as I love the 1911 platform, which I do. I have owned several. I have sold them all, um, for various reasons. One of which is the, I believe it's called the Tang safety that, that, that squeeze safety in the back. Um, There's a lot of ways to grip that wrong and make the gun non-functional that you don't have an issue with with modern polymer striker fires or things like the CZ-97 or CZ-75. And you know, in spite of that, because you're not the first person I've heard say that, I have never managed to induce that failure with my 1911. I have managed to do it on a number of occasions when I am attempting to do I would say rapid holster drills. That makes sense. If you don't get like a really good purchase and get, if you don't get the web of your hand really firmly engaged in that backstrap. there you you want to ram your hand up into that back strap to make sure you're seated properly and you know what if that if you trained exclusively with that firearm great fine I loved my 9mm double stack 1911. I really did. I sold it because somebody offered me way more money than it was worth for it because I did some custom work to it. And, well, I'm a capitalist at heart. So.... So, Joe, I can tell you've drank beer because you just asked me what. You switched to bourbon a little bit ago. What 1119 I own. So. Kimber, isn't it? I will put on my flame suit. It is a Kimber TLE RL2, and I get that reaction from everybody, but it gets worse, Nick. It's one of Kimber's external extractor guns. And it is reliable? How many rounds do you have through it? Don't know. I've had it since 2005. How was the break-in period? Um, first 200 rounds was a little rough. I've not surprised, but after that, that gun's actually been shockingly reliable. The only issue I ever had out of it was when I just started reloading and I started reloading for this gun. Oh, and I started off loading 230 grain round nose precision Delta jacket of bullets. Sure. And then I made the very amateur first, first cartridge i was ever reloading i made the very amateur mistake of swapping from from that to extreme plated bullets and i didn't reset my dice ah i just assumed i i was well 230 grain round nose 230 grain round nose bullet go in the hole. Well and then in the hole. Yeah, well, apparently there's some very slight dimensional tolerance stacking between those two rounds, and what wound up happening was the jacket on the Precision Delta bullets is, I mean, it's a jacketed bullet, and it did not require anywhere near the amount of bell-mouthing to get the bullet to drop down into the case smoothly. Like I said, it's a jacketed bullet, you know what I'm saying? So if you underdo the bell-mouth a little bit, it'll make room. Oh, yeah. With the Extremes, that wasn't the case. I shaved the sight off a couple of them, so I turned the expander ball down like another quarter of a turn. Sure. I did not adjust the crimp on the last. Yeah, yeah. And then I went out to the range, and lo and behold, I started having an issue with my ammunition that I'd never had before, where that slide would stop like a sixteenth of an inch from going into battery. Okay. And if I whacked the back of the slide, it'd go in a battery and it'd shoot. Yeah, because it compressed the brass. Yeah. So once I realized the problem I was having, I came home and I took the barrel out, plunk tested a bunch of them, and realized what the problem was. Yeah. And then I took the seating stem out of that die, set everything perfectly so it'd plunk test, and I ran every single, I don't know, three, four, five hundred bullets. I did this over the course of a couple weekends. Yeah. But I ran every one of those bullets back through the seating die. Just to taper care, but just to kiss. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's probably all it needed. A couple thousand, three, four thousand. Yeah. So, like, you know, lessons were learned. Mm-hmm. But that Kimber's been extraordinarily reliable over the years, which shocks everyone because Kimber's external extractor guns are notorious for being dogs. So. To the point where if. If I ever have a problem with this gun, like if the extractor wears out, if the extractor spring gives up, anything happens to this gun and it has to go back to Kimber for service, they will not send it back to me with this slide on it. Interesting. That has been Kimber's policy for at least a decade that I'm aware of, that if they ever service one of their external extractor guns, they fit a new slide with an internal extractor and they ship it back to you. They will not touch them. They have been trying like hell to get them all out of circulation for years because they don't want to carry the parts for it. They don't want to fool with them. Like the external extractor Kimber was an attempt to not have to do all the tuning and the fooling around with an internal extractor. You do want a 1911 to make them run reliably. And what they ended up doing was they ended up creating a gun that, due to some kind of dimensional tolerance stacking, most of them didn't work very well. The big reason why Kimber's have the bad reputation they do have was Kimber was the first company to try and do artisanal gunsmithing on a CNC machine. And artisanal gunsmithing designs do not lend themselves well to CNC production. They don't. They just don't. Yeah. And it's unfortunate because I got this. This was the first time I bought them. Bad guns, they just need to be just futzed with a little bit, usually. And like I said, I bought this gun in 2005 as a welcome home from my rack present to myself. It was the first gun I ever bought, period, end discussion. I couldn't tell you how many rounds I have through it because that's like asking how many tanks of gas you've put through a car that you've had for 20 freaking years. I have no idea. I know that I shot it a bunch and it's set in a case and then I shot it a bunch more. Who in the hell knows? Joe, artisanal gunsmithing is where everything is hand-fit. That's what it means. So everything is rough machined to the machining tolerance, and then a gunsmith will go through, usually with India ink or with Dykem or with bluing ink, or in this case, modern-day Sharpie works pretty all right if you don't have bluing ink. Um, and they just take a file or some stones and they work down the high spots that make sure everything's nice and deep bird. Everything's moving nice and smooth and perfect. And sometimes even tune the springs, stretch the springs out a little bit, over compress the springs a little bit, make some little adjustments on the, what's the finger spring that's in the main spring in the grip of a 1911. They'll make some adjustments to that spring, add or subtract a little material there. Um, Or I should say add or subtract a little bit of bend there or sometimes subtract a little material to make the springs weaker just to make it function just how it should. Yeah. But that's kind of the thing of it. Like Kimber, I've heard every version of their dogs and their great guns. I've heard every version of they've gotten better or worse over the years. I don't know. Sample size of one, I haven't been unhappy with the one that I have enough to where I would send it back to Kimber or get rid of it. But I also have not been enamored enough with it that I would get another one. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I get it. I enjoy shooting it. That was my feeling about my Sig... What did I have? 220? No. No. I had one of the polymer ones that was hammer fired. Not a 220, though. I have no idea anymore. It was, you know, it was, it was, it was all right. It was all right. I wasn't that thrilled with the Sig. Yeah. Stuart's saying, that's why Singer 1911s are so rare and expensive. The artisans who built sewing machines made them. I have a... I had a Rockola M1 carbine. I sold it to my brother. The Rockola Record Company made 275,000 M1 carbines during World War II. My brother has one of them. There's not a whole lot of them left. Apparently it's a very rare roll mark. Hopefully he enjoys it. Hopefully he takes care of it. Oh, he takes care of things. But Now, I will out myself as being maybe one of the early progenitors of FUDLOR. I bought that Kimber specifically because LAPD SWAT used them. And that seemed like, if it's good enough for a SWAT team... Yeah, that's fair. And I mean, you know, to be fair, it's not a bad gun. It does exactly what it's supposed to. It was my only gun. It was my bedside gun. Hell, it was my glove box gun for years. it does the job consider for a moment the fact that my daily driver knock around glove box gun for years was a Kimber 1911 with a Surefire X200 underneath it with I want to say at the time I had Chip McCormick 8 round mags and an extended magwell that I fitted that I got from Kimber Because back then, it made sense to keep all Kimber parts on the gun. But anyway. So, yeah. It did fine work for me for years, and then... eventually I got a Springfield XD because I wanted something that was literally just a. 45 ACP appliance. Yeah, and that's really what that gun is. Yeah, and it did great work for me for years. I sold it to my dad, and I'm pretty sure he's going to will it back to me when he shuffles off this mortal coil. The Springfield XD series is just an appliance firearm unless you abuse it like I did. Yeah. All right. Let's get on down to... We got a couple of things that might be fun in here. Spend double on the optic what you did on the rifle. Yeah. Oh, the arguments this one can start. Look, glad... Dollar to quality ratio in optical glass has really changed in the. Last 35 years. 30 years even. It's changed massively. Five years has changed a ton. I mean, you can now, what was a night force or a loophole optic, you can now get on a budget optic platform. And it is better than the majority of you are shooters. Yeah. And I say that as a person that probably spent too much on my optic. Now, that's not to say that that was always the case. There was a time. There was. There was a time when you had to spend. I don't know. I would say night force money, but like there was a time when you had to buy. High end loophole money. You had to. Buy high end. You had spent high end loophole money. You were not going to get a. a Barska or a whatever, and slap it on top of a rifle and then expect top-tier quality. Or even acceptable quality. Yeah. Now, I will allow, because I can almost hear Stuart's thoughts, that there is an argument to be made that with more money spent, you will sometimes get greater durability. Sometimes what you're buying is a warranty. Yeah. Sometimes you're buying a warranty. Sometimes you're buying the provenance of the fact that the military beat the crap out of this thing in a combat zone and it survived. And that kind of goes back to the whole argument of what Neo FUDs value. It was used in the military. It must be good, even though it was, you know, lowest bidder is the way a lot of military equipment works. Lowest cost to meet doctrine is usually what it is. But I do think that that day where you went out and bought a $ 1, 000 rifle and you had to immediately turn around and buy a $ 2, 000 piece of glass just so you could hit something at 100 yards. Let's be mature, guys. A $ 300 or $ 400 rifle scope is more performance than I would comfortably say 75% of gun owners can use. I have compared scopes like the modern Nikon Pro Staff line. with say i'm going to call it 1980s 1990s vision uh vintage premium tier loophole optics and the two three hundred dollar nikons are far superior to the premium loophole that you used to get and those were considered the best you could buy at the time or one of the best you could buy at the time. Or Or go back even further than that, though. Let's go back into the 50s and 60s, where Henselt and Zeiss were, I don't know about the only game in town, but they were an extraordinarily expensive for the time piece of equipment, and there wasn't a ton of competition around them, and there certainly wasn't a lot that could match them for glass quality. Look, let's be realistic. The reason for the massive change in glass quality is is the metrology technology and the chemical analysis technology has become way more cost effective. That's really what it is. It got cheaper to be more consistent with the base materials. So then here comes the question. Does this stem from old knowledge, almost like what a normal flood would have proffered, Or does this stem from the other direction where it's like, well, the military doesn't use Vortex. The military doesn't use this. The military uses this. Therefore, that's more tactical. That's better. I have heard it from both directions. I've heard it from both directions. It depends on who you talk to. Because I have heard people claim that the only pistol red dot you should shoot is an RMR. Because it's the only... one such and such force uses. The only low-pro variable optic you should use is Trijicon or Leupold or whatever it was. Mark this on your calendars. Stuart is not arguing with me for once. Mother of God. Mother of God. Okay. Now, Nick made me change this one because it upset his OCD autism. The 236 Laser Blaster is better than your. 308. 30- 06. Now, there is no current. 236 Laser Blaster, but I'm sure if we sit around longer. Incorrect. 6mm Creedmoor. That's not called the. 236 Laser Blaster, though. It is a. 238 caliber. It is. 238 caliber. So I should have changed this to. 238 Laser Blaster. 236, what did I say? 238? I don't know. Anyway, I'm really just using 236 Laser Blaster as a stand-in and to poke fun at all the 6mm cartridges that are flooding the market, all the friggin' 5.5mm cartridges, all the 6.5mm cartridges, the 7s, the 7.5s. I have to say, my people, the Swedes, figured this one out first. 6.555 Swede. World War I, we had it figured out. But here's my thing. I totally understand the urge to experiment, the urge to try to push cartridge design past some of the grandfathers in this realm. I get that. I understand that ballistically there are some advantages to longer, skinnier bullets. They cheat the wind better. They don't drop velocity as quickly. I understand all those things. I accept them. I am moving on. However.... The Neofud's insistence that. 308 and. 30- 06 have had their day and are no longer worth loading or shooting is asinine. You and I have had this talk multiple times because I've been drawn into multiple debates between 6.5 Creedmoor and. 308 Winchester, and I pointed out to a person, what distance do you think you're going to shoot at? And the answer I kept getting was 200 to 400 yards. And I showed them the ballistic math that showed that energy on target was higher for 308 Winchester than for 6.5 Creedmoor, up to at least 400 yards. Now, there's a whole lot more that goes into this argument than simple energy on target, velocity times weight of the projectile, but the point remains. I was demonstrating over and over and over that the old dogs, the 308, the 30-odd-6, they've dropped more deer in their tracks, they've put more men on their butt they've done more friggin damage on the face of this earth they've hit more targets at longer ranges than any of these new kids on the block have and it's dishonest I think to just discard them as well that's old it's old in the same way that like it's old in the same way that like a 41 magnum or 44 magnum revolver is but I still wouldn't want to get shot with one agreed just agree. Stewart is correcting your math. He says 6mm is 243, 6.5 is 264. 6mm is. 236 inches. I'm not talking about the diameter of the bullet or the caliber. I'm talking about metric to inch conversion. Very googly moogly. Stewart is correct for caliber. I am talking about measurements. Because Al Ruler is not measurements. And Stuart, he would not allow me to start the show until I gave him his way. So please just let him have it. I insisted. Stuart now wants to have an argument. That's fair. Good job, Nick. He can want to have an argument. I made you change the banner to make me feel better. I had to give to my co-host, man. His eyebrow was twitching, okay? It was. It was. Well, because my entire... Oh, man. Having a measurement off by that much would get me screamed at at work. What did I put in there originally? Was it 258 or something? 258. It was really bothering me because it was neither caliber nor metric to English conversion. It was wrong both ways. But that was on purpose. I know, and it bothered me so much. It was purposefully wrong. Yeah. Intentionally wrong. I can't do it. I had to make it wrong in a purposeful manner. Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay, this is the last one that I threw in, and I think this sums up the neofuds well from my perspective. Anything used by military special forces is better slash awesome. And again, I bought a Kimber 1911 because it was used by a SWAT team. I was guilty of this when I was a 22-year-old. 22? I'm doing math in my head. I think a lot of guys, when they first get into firearms, they do fall into that because it's pretty easy to fall into. It's what you see. It's cool. I get it. Yeah, and especially when you consider what the state of gun culture was in 2005. I mean, we're talking about the assault weapons ban had just sunsetted. Early G.Y. ARs were definitely starting to explode into the gun culture, but they hadn't become as ubiquitous as they are now because of all the years of the assault weapons ban and all the downstream consequences of that. We're talking about, like, Glocks weren't really in common usage yet. I don't know. I mean, I'm talking about it like it was, like, you know, 100 years ago, but 21 years ago. From the perspective of how much the shooting community has changed, the biggest change since World War II was the sunset of the assault weapons ban. It was a seismic event. It was a seismic event because now we have Normalization of suppressors, normalization of body armor, normalization of night vision, normalization of fairly aggressive shooting sports. That's a huge change. It is, but going back to the neophytes, where there's this adherence to if it isn't for a military purpose or if it isn't for a militia purpose, then there's no point in dealing with it or having it. And I've, you know, come to think of it, we started this conversation off with saying that we thought that this was kind of an overcorrection from funds. What if instead this is because of G. White and the sunset of the assault weapons ban? In other words, like, the thing that the gun community couldn't really partake in for a lot of years, like, even getting into, like, the days where, like, Soldier of Fortune magazine was kind of on the fringe of the gun community. My uncle used to get that. But I guess that's my point. What if what is now we're calling neo-FUD lore is an off-branch from that time period where the gun community was abruptly reshuffled And the perspective changed from 1911 and Woodstock guns to everything tactical, everything the military uses, everything the police use. Because we can finally have it. Yeah. And then things like body armor and night vision and everything else, that's really, I feel like, gained more prevalence just because of GWAT. Because I can remember getting issued IOTVs in 2004. And thinking that was fairly modern stuff. I mean, it's laughably out of date now, but 22 years ago, that was, I mean, that was, it was true Kevlar body armor with heart plates. It was something that we really didn't have any experience with prior to that. And even when I was playing around with PVS sevens in 2002, that was like sci-fi stuff. It's laughably out of date now. Yeah. But I don't know. Maybe I judge them too harshly. And what the neo-fuds are is just really enthusiastic progenitors of modern things. But I still argue that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater because there's a lot of those old revolvers, and there's a lot of those friggin' old guns, and there's a lot of those old 1911s, and there's a lot of that stuff that's been around for 40 and 50 and 60 years that's been around that long because it freaking works. Right. There's nothing that looks quite as nice as a really quality walnut stock on a hunting rifle. It just really looks nice. And if you think. 30- 06 and. 308 are grandpas and ready to be put out to pasture, I mean, there's F-class guys all over the U.S. who would giggle at that assumption. I would put my. 30- 06 hand loads against any of your 6.5 hand loads. Yeah. Mm-hmm. All right, now we've got a couple that Nick threw in here. This is a dumb one. Home defense frangible rounds. Now, I don't know if you guys remember when frangible rounds got really available. Right around the same time that steel targets became a real big thing, frangible rounds were really popular. And the argument I started hearing from some of the rather dumb individuals in the firearms community was, You should use frangible rounds for your home defense ammo because if it hits drywall, it turns into powder and it won't kill your kid in the next room. I've heard that on numerous occasions. That is not how they work at all. They only do that against very hard targets like steel plates. I was actually told that they wouldn't penetrate drywall. Yeah, they absolutely will. They'll penetrate just as much drywall as a hard ball round. Yeah. Now I do think, and you and I have talked about like the, how, when I got my 12 gauge, like one of the things I did was I put a, put a box of a breaching rounds in the, in the stash. Cause like I had an opportunity to buy them. It's also cool. Yeah. And literally those breaching rounds, which is the same stuff that was, that was used by the military. It's literally just a big frangible freaking slug, and it's designed to freaking knock a lock out of a door and then disintegrate so it doesn't bounce back into your face. You've got to be clear here. It is not the same. It is similar to a frangible round. It is similar. It is not the same because the powder that is in a breaching round is a far looser pack. There is no binding agent other than the wadding. It is just mass of powder using its weight to punch through a door. Yeah. It is very different than a compressed frangible round. Yeah. And I do think that I remember when frangible rounds were just all the freaking rage and every damn gun store on earth carried the stupid things. I cannot remember the last time I saw some in a gun store. There is some at one of the local gun stores near me. It is the same old box that's been sitting there for five years. So not new production then. Air marshals are somewhat to blame for them being as popular as they were. Kind of an offshoot of if military special forces, or in this case, elite law enforcement used them. Yeah, exactly. Very, very similar. Yeah, although, like, let's be honest, air marshals might have a really good reason for one to have frangible rounds. But the problem is aluminum hulls of aircraft are not breaking up frangible ammunition. They're not. And every test I've seen where people have tried to prove that it would, it punched right through the skin of that aircraft. Yeah, that's what you call a rapid decompression. It's a really good way to upset your passengers. Or bring down an aircraft. That, too. Oh, Jesus Christ. Buy one, cry once. Cry spelled C-R-Y-E. Look, there's a reason why I spelled it the way I did. There are a lot of people in the firearms community, in the tactical shooting community, that claim if you're not spending cry money, you're getting crap. Now, there's a lot to be said for buying quality nylon and quality firearms, but... For the majority of people, if you are learning how to use your equipment, you, number one, you don't really know what equipment you want or need. You really don't. You build your kit based off of what you see people online recommending to you. Should you go out and buy a $ 400 or $ 500 plate carrier and a bunch of $ 80 pouches? No. No, you should not. you should buy a reasonably quality, affordable plate carrier and some not-too-expensive pouches because you're going to be moving that shit around and throwing half that stuff away. Phil, how many holsters did you go through before you found your favorite everyday carry holster? Hang on. Two. The third one wound up being... like the one that I've stuck with to the point where when the first one wore out, I bought another one. Yeah, I went through five. And by the way, my daily driver holster is the one that pisses off the neofuds the most because it is a leather, not kydex, leather holster with an old school metal clip that clips over the belt. Fair enough. It is what you see every freaking middle-aged dude who has a double-stack 9mm clipped inside of his pants carries. It's not the thing that is appendix. It's not kydex. It doesn't have the wings and the clips and the doodads and all that shit on it. You know what it does? The gun goes inside of it, it covers the trigger, and it goes in my pants. As long as you buy a quality leather holster. Huh? Huh? As long as you buy a quality leather holster, they are perfectly fine. The flimsy, thin leather holsters that collapse when you pull the gun out of them, not acceptable. Throw it in the trash. And let's be clear. This thing is substantial enough that if I pull the gun out, leave the holster in, that holster will stay open. It should. That is the only acceptable leather holster. Yeah. But I have seen a lot of people argue with me that, If you are going to a shooting class and you're not wearing cry pants and a cry shirt, you're wasting your time. I wear $ 30 Wrangler ATGs when I go to a shooting class because I'm going to be fucking around and rolling around in gravel and rocks and bullshit and tearing those pants up. Why would I tear up $ 80 pants when the $ 30 pants have lasted five years? Dude, the Wrangler friggin' ATG pants, that's my daily driver. Fantastic pants. Fantastic pants. They make two different ones. They make a synthetic one and they make an all-cotton like a Duluth fire hose style. That is like the one thing that I do want to get a couple pairs of is the all-cotton ones because I can tell you that the synthetic ones are very affordable and very durable. Yeah. I can also tell you that if they come in contact with something sufficiently hot, you will not be wearing them You will not be wearing them in the office anymore. As a machinist, buy the all-cotton ones if you're a machinist. They last a ridiculous long time, and they're shockingly comfortable. Yeah. Proud Texan saying his EDC is a DeSantis OWB holster with belt loops. But I guess that's kind of my point. The NeoFUD would turn his nose up at our holster choices, would turn his nose up at The choice of like what nylon gear we use. They would yell at me because I'm using an alien gear holster instead of one that costs twice as much. Yeah. And at the end of the day, like I just go back right back to where I started with. Do it work. Do it work well. Do it work. Is it safe? Yes. I hate to say it, but like, you know, everyone's seen the meme of. . . four to six times a year if you're going to do milsim. If you're not going, okay, when I was in combat, we wore our boots every day. We wore our uniforms every day. We wore our body armor every day. We carried our weapons every day. When you do stuff every day, stuff wears out a lot faster. It does. When you don't do it every day, it lasts substantially longer. you don't need body armor that you're going to wear once or twice a year, or even once or twice a month. You don't need body armor that holds up to everyday use. If you're going to train with it one 15th or one 30th that often, I still have. My original five 11 coyote tan, triple shingle AR 15 mag pouch. I still use it because has it worn holes in the corners and I've sewed it shut with fishing line a couple of times. Yeah. But, Still holds up. And I haven't had to spend any money on it. Yeah. It just works. Nylon's nylon. Oh, Jesus Christ. I just saw the next banner. Less lethal first round. So, you see this argued on and off with regards to shotguns. Put a beanbag around or put a rubber ball around. Do people still argue this? They do. Do they have a learning disability? Or put a rock. Salt round in there, or put a birdshot round in first. Do these people have a learning disability? I swear some of them do. Are their parents cousins? Are they a product of incest? Perhaps. I don't want to use the R word. It sounds insensitive. They are Redditors. Oh, God Almighty. The look on Phil's face is just fantastic. I'm afraid if I keep rubbing my forehead, I'm going to need medical attention. There is bone there if you go hard enough. Yeah, but behind that, there's squishy stuff that I kind of need to work. That's fine. Raggle is correct. Dave Chappelle even pushed this in one of his specials. Dave Chappelle's a comedian. Dave Chappelle is a comedian, but he made a very serious... Bit about that. We're the guy. The gun store recommended to him load birdshot, buckshot, birdshot, buckshot, buckshot, buckshot. Okay, but hear me out. Dave Chappelle's a comedian. He is. You should not take firearms advice from a comedian. You probably shouldn't take firearms advice from the freaking FUD idiot at the gun store either, but you definitely, no offense, no shade on Dave, you should not take advice from a comedian about guns. You just shouldn't do that. Kyle, are they in a pump action shotgun or semi-auto? Because this is my biggest gripe right here. These people on Reddit are telling people agnostic of the type of shotgun to load a less lethal round in your shotgun first. Now, Phil, what do you know about less lethal shotgun rounds? They're less lethal, not non-lethal. Correct. It's still firing a firearm at someone, number one. That's still use of deadly force, regardless of if it is a less lethal round or an ounce slug. And also, they are not 100% efficient at putting a target down. Ah, see, Kyle, pump 870. No issues there. You're not going to have cyclical issues with a pump 870 with an underpowered, less lethal round. But I still have an issue. Okay, go for it. My issue with this advice is some smartass... First of all, I know where Kyle works. Yeah. I disagree with his agency's policy. I think they're morons. I agree. I'm with you. But I at least understand the perspective in law enforcement where you have a bunch of buddies that have not non-lethal rounds if the non-lethal rounds don't work. Exactly. But this advice given to... A homeowner, a person defending their home, to put non-lethal rounds in front of lethal rounds in your shotgun is freaking stupid. Because if the person who is doing things you don't want them to do does not react as you hope they do to the non-lethal round, you don't have all your buddies sitting around with buckshot and 9mm and everything else to back you up. Which means now you get to wrestle with this guy you just shot and pissed off. And you know what their counter is to that argument, Phil? Lay it on me. What if it's your daughter's boyfriend? What if it's your kid coming home late? First of all, does no one have a light on their home defense firearm? Why are we shooting at targets we have not identified? That's number one. If you are even entertaining the idea that you're going to shoot something without PID-ing it, positively identifying, you're a fucking moron. And second of all, if my daughter's boyfriend breaks into my home and does something so catastrophically stupid, the merit getting shot, I promise you, he deserves it. Yeah. Apply that wherever it fits. Just saying. But at the end of the day, I just go back to this idea that, like, does this have an application? Okay. Perfect example. I got a box of breaching rounds for my shotgun, because why the hell wouldn't you? I got a box of friggin' rubber ball bullets for it, because why wouldn't I? Yeah. Do you know what's loaded in that shotgun right now? Fuckshot. It's ghost loaded with double odd buck, one on the friggin' lifter, six in the side saddle, and one slug. And guess how many non-lethal rounds that is? It's fucking zero. Zero. Because if someone breaks into this home and does something so catastrophically stupid or annoying or distressing to my family that I'm going to pull that shotgun out, I can promise you they deserve full power hell. They do not deserve rubber ball bullets or bean bags or any of that other nonsense. Look, my biggest problem with it is some people– argue online that, well, if you're using less lethal rounds and you shot somebody that shouldn't have been shot, you won't be in as much legal trouble. Bullshit. You're going to jail either way. You still fired a firearm at a person and it wasn't justified. You're going to jail. Have fun. Do not pass go. You will not collect $ 200. You're going to collect a hell of a lawyer bill. It is the same argument that if I use a lever gun or a handgun instead of an AR-15, then that'll get me in less trouble. When it comes to beating a civil trial, maybe. Maybe you sway the jury's opinion. But when it comes to beating a criminal charge, what's most important is, was it a good shoot? Right. And if it's not a good shoot, I don't care if you use... If it was a good shoot, you might lose the civil trial anyway. True. But I can tell you this, less lethal rounds are not historically that effective. True. But I can promise you that if you pop somebody with a less lethal round, whatever counselor is on the other side of that equation is going to tell the jury six ways to Sunday. It doesn't matter because these are all the times less lethal rounds have killed and maimed people and blah, blah, blah. And there will be no credence given to the fact that you used a less lethal round. And the other. Thing that they're going to say is that– The only time that less lethal round is going to matter is when you pop somebody and it doesn't stop them. And now you've got a problem to deal with. The other thing they're going to say is, well, you were not in that much fear for your life because you were using less lethal ammo. You knew they weren't that much of a threat. So you were even more in the wrong. Yeah. I saw Stuart text a message earlier. There's only downside. I saw Stuart drop it in the chat. I guess I'll pull it out before we move on. In the country, my self-defense shotgun was loaded with a birdshot for snakes, rats, and squirrels. That's a load appropriate to the task at hand. Yes, just like one-ounce slugs is appropriate to my task at hand, in case I want to zap somebody that's hiding behind my refrigerator. Have fun. I don't care if you're wearing plates. The inertia will break all your ribs. Also, it is worth pointing out at this point that I have thrown a tape measure across the longest shot in this house, and I can tell you definitively that All that Winchester double-odd buck, that Milsurp crap that doesn't pattern worth a damn, makes a nice little eight-inch circle at exactly that range. That's a lot of important organs. If you want to take nine pellets to the frigate chest, you by all means just, you know, make my life easy for me. Mm-hmm. All right. You just weren't going to let this go without sneaking in the you'll die if you don't. Otherwise known as the we'll get you killed in the streets. Mm-hmm. You see this a lot on people that are attempting to sell you things on their YouTube or their Instagram. If all your nylon is not NIR compliant, which I will argue, NIR, non-reflective material, is a good thing to have. But how many people in your daily life have night vision goggles? Less than you think, and it's not very many that you think do. Wait a second. I know quite a few, actually. You do, but we are not average individuals. The fact that you and I both know a half a dozen people with night vision is not normal. Just a half a dozen, huh? I mean, I have the cell phone number of a man that owns a night vision company. We're not in the normal category anymore, Phil. Yeah, we're not normal. Our wives will definitely. Back us up on that. Another one. If you're not running thermal monoculars, thermal monocular on the other side of your PBS-14, you're going to get killed because you're not going to be able to see the guy's thermal blown. If you're using active targeting with night vision, laser and IR illuminator, that'll get you killed in the streets because now, hell, you're turning on the spotlight. Everybody with night vision, all the six people you know, can see you in the dark. Mm-hmm. Johnny B. Meth head down the street suddenly grew, you know, suddenly ate all of his carrots and can see really well in the dark and he can see in infrared. You know, it's, you see it too. Like if you can't run a six minute mile, you're going to die. Well, yeah, no shit. Probably. If you're, if you're in a combat situation with active military. Sure. Yeah, probably. Ooh, I got a good one. Have you seen the guys that will insist that certain red dots are They allow so much light to leak out of the backside from the emitter. Yeah. The light blue. They'll be seen five miles away under night vision. Ooh. No. Or the tritium in your night sights. I've not seen that one. Great. That's really stupid. That's such a small light profile. That's less than a cigarette lit. Like considerably less. Considerably less. Now, I will say lit cigarettes have gotten people killed. In active combat zones with snipers. I would even go so far as like, we have to point out for the younger audience among us, this does come from a place. Because you remember the raging debate that was going on, again, about 20 years ago when the gun community had that big seismic shift, and all of a sudden people started saying, hey, why aren't we all carrying with one in the chamber? Yep. It was right about the time that striker fired firearms, supplanted hammer fired. It was in that time period where like. Hammer fired guns were still having that inertia fire issue sometimes. And it, it, I feel like a lot of it stems from that time when like, again, coming from the coming from the nineties, when all of your classic hammer fired handguns for the most part had manual safeties, they did. And now all of a sudden we have this new generation of plastic, no safeties to be found, striker-fired handguns, even though the Glock does have a safety, but that's irrelevant. There was no selectable safety on the side. Of the gun. No external mechanical safety. Yes. And that's where I think this whole habit of, I don't want to carry one in the chamber because I don't have a safety, came from. And then the pushback of, if you don't have one in the chamber, the gun's not loaded, you're not ready to use it for self-defense, that'll get you killed in the streets. Do you remember the first time a cop got killed because he was carrying with an empty chamber? It was on a massive news story. It was out of New York. It was in the... I want to say... It was right after New York switched to a polymer striker fired firearm. I want to say it was like 2004, 2005. He should have practiced his Israeli carry. There was a video of it, too, and it was bad. He drew the gun, went up to pull the trigger, dead man's gun, died. Got shot a whole bunch. And that I remember triggering a big online debate about why is anybody carrying a gun without a bullet loaded in the chamber? why are any of these cops carrying without a loaded gun? Well, it was department policy at the time that you were not to have your firearm chambered. If there wasn't a mechanical safety. Yeah. Now, to be fair, these were farms that were still fairly new to the scene. A lot of mistrust of them. There was a little bit of mistrust. There was a little bit of antiquated Fudd lore of if there's no mechanical safety, it's not safe to carry with around in the chamber. Um, Well, I mean, think about how long revolvers clung on to police service for years when semi-autos started to supplant them. Like, this is not a trend that has happened just once, especially when you consider for the fact, in the same way that we started this conversation off by talking about, like, not everything that is brand new automatically pushes what is old into obscurity if it still works and does a job. The problem is, it's like, most police spend 98% of their time writing reports. They do. They don't spend a lot of time burning down bad guys on the street. If you've watched a lot of Dirty Harry and that was your perspective, I'm sorry to ruin the surprise for you. Most cops spend more time doing paperwork and riding around in their mobile office than they do shooting for training or in anger. It's just the way it is. Same way in the military. You want to know why the M4, the M16, the AR platform has lingered on for this long? It's because we've got millions of the damn things. It's pretty hard to argue retooling an entire military for negligible to zero benefit. And because 95% of soldiers spend more time doing things than shooting. I was an aircraft mechanic. I spent my time carrying a rifle, but I spent a lot more time carrying a toolbox. Because the way I contributed to my unit's success was by making Blackhawks fly. It's hard to do it with an AR-15 or an M16. My grandfather, during the rise of the Berlin Wall, while they were putting that up, he was carrying an M1 Garand. He was driving a truck with a nuke in the back, but he was carrying an M1 Garand. Why? Because we had a lot of those things, and, well, if you weren't front line, you got an M1 Garand. Congrats. That's what we have. And it works. It does the job. He was riding around in a truck. It sat in the truck seat. Who cares if it's too heavy? But I think getting back to this, I think... that's where this whole get your kilt in the streets comes from is literally getting people kilt in the streets. Which, to be fair, it does on occasion. But I also think that now we've jumped the shark because now we're just looking for new things to say this will get your kilt in the streets so we can promote things push things, try to sell things. To the YouTube gun tuber and the Instagram gun, gun bloggers. Some of it's down to them searching for content after a while. And more than just content. I feel like a lot of this, a lot of Neo Fuddler in general stems from a need to stand out from the crowd and a need to find relevance. Or a desire to have a definitive answer. Yeah. Yeah. But I feel like a lot of this just comes from the idea that let's call what it is. You and I have talked about behind the curtain, look directly in Oz's eyes. We've talked about the fact that the podcast market has fallen off a tremendous amount in the last five years. YouTube is a hyper-saturated market. All of content creation is hyper-saturated. And now that we're seeing AI content come in and whole channels of AI content, It's just getting more oversaturated. And so people who want to make their living in influencing or in, you know, gun tube or whatever, and people who just want the self-validation are desperately trying to find some way, some thing they can use to, like, make their mark on the gun community and say, this is the thing that I stood on business and told everybody, and now everybody does it that way. Yep. And yet, the guys who push nuance don't end up in that box. Nuance is hard to sensationalize. Well, not wanting to sensationalize anything is also hard to sensationalize. Like, you show me a guy who still wants to shoot a revolver, I'm not going to tell him don't shoot a revolver. I'm going to say you better spend a whole lot of time practicing reloading because that's the bad thing about revolvers is they go dry a whole lot. They do, just like shotguns. Same thing I tell people about shotguns. I don't spend a lot of time at the range shooting my shotgun. I want to. I need to make time for it. But it's like on the list of things that I practice with. It's just down the list a little bit. But you know what I spend a lot of time doing? Really? Running blanks in and out of that freaking shotgun over and over and over, training my hands. to go from stocked and mounted to violin to quickly plussing up the gun. I practice doing slug chains overs. I practice dropping that one round into the chamber and getting back on target as fast as possible when the gun goes down. I practice all that because I understand that when you've got seven in the tube and one on the lifter, the thing that's going to happen to your shotgun a whole lot is it's going to go click instead of bang. And you better spend a lot of time practicing that. getting the gun loaded back up. Same thing with a revolver. I need to spend more time practicing my revolver. By the way, a revolver is a phenomenal trigger trainer. Nothing will make you out to be a worse shot on earth than spending a day shooting a double action revolver out of the range. That's true. That was one thing I really did like about the... I had a 686? 4-inch 686 in stainless. 357. Very nice gun. That was the only revolver I considered keeping. Probably shouldn't have got rid of it. I did. But, man, my God, did that improve my trigger, my trigger pull so much. Because if you can shoot a double axe revolver well. then pulling the trigger on a single action is nothing. Especially a really short throw single action with a really nice, light, crisp break. But even if it's a box stock right off the friggin' line... It's so much easier than a double-fire revolver. Creepy, gritty. Yeah, because, I mean, if you can hold your sights on target and you can smoothly squeeze through an 8.5 to 10-pound double-action trigger pull on a revolver, then... any striker fired hit trigger pull I've ever felt is going to pale in comparison to that will be better. Yeah. Although we did have a good point made here in the comments. Uh, Joe says who doesn't carry with one in the tube and Stuart coming in, those who carry open bolt sub guns, correct answer. You do not carry with one in a chamber with an open bolt sub gun. Sub guns, um, older revolvers that still had the, uh, that don't have a transfer bar, basically. They have the spur. They have the firing pin directly on the hammer. I mean, there are still guns out there, and this is another thing I've heard. I've heard new fuds proffer, but there are a lot of guns out there that are simply not drop safe with a round in the chamber. The firing pin will find a way to hit primer if you drop it just right. Or a Sig P320, which you stare at funny and it goes off. I mean, I'm just saying. I would like to get a cheap P320 and do some of my own failure analysis on it. I don't want to spend actual money for one, but if somebody has one that's sitting in safe because they don't feel like it's safe, I'll give you $ 100 for it and I'll dick around with it and see if I can figure out what's going on. Because I've got all the metrology tools to do that. Hmm? you'll skeletonize the whole thing. So you can watch the inner workings. Won't you? That was my first thought. Yeah. I was going to take it over to the wire EDM machine, skeletonize it all and find out where exactly there's too much or not enough clearance. I figured that's where you were going, but yeah, I mean, and like I was saying, the Neo FUD will say that all those guns that are not drop safe shouldn't be carried anymore. But then I go back to the argument of like, but if they go bang and if they're reliable and if the only problem is that You shouldn't drop them muzzled down with a round in the chamber. That doesn't sound like a reason not to carry them. You know, I have heard people say that you should not own an AR because there's no spring holding the firing pin back from doing exactly that. I don't know that I have ever heard, even heard of, an AR having an ND like that. Being dropped muzzled down in the firing pin, gaining enough inertia. To make a primer go off. I've heard of it happening in SKS's, but SKS's have a much heavier firing pin. Oh, it's a huge firing pin compared to an AR firing pin. It's like four or five times the weight. Yeah, I mean, even the firing pin on an AK is a fair bit heavier than what's in an AR-15. I mean, I've never weighed them, but just going by feel and memory. Having held both, I would say it's Try closer to double. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, someone out there is going to say that's the reason you're supposed to use the hardened military primers when you do your reloading for 5.56, but that's not actually the reason. The reason is because the softer commercial primers tend to show pressure signs a lot sooner, which I don't care about because it's not like they're melting out of the back of the case. So I don't really care if they're a little flat. Yeah. Besides, I like my CCI primers. I will say I have had more commercial primers come out of the primer pocket than I have military primers, staked or unstaked. Hmm. I mean, the cups on the military primers are a touch thicker, so it does stand to reason they would have a little bit more bite to them. A little more resistance to coming out. Now, that being said, I've only had three primers come out. I've actually never had a primer come out from shooting. I have. I have had a couple of primers pop out of the back while in the vibratory dry tumbler. Oh, that's a loose pocket. Which is interesting. But there's the thing of it. It wasn't so loose that as long as the bolt gets the back of it, it stayed in. Right. It stayed in long enough for all the pressure to drop down and for the case to get flung off the side of the bolt. But as it was jiggling around with a bunch of its buddies in the dry timber, that's when that primer decided to get, you know. Fine. Yeah. Fine. Yeah. Joe saying, how about safe gun handling? Don't drop your gun. Don't shove the muzzle in the dirt. It's not a bad argument. It's not a bad argument. You know, I like a lot of the old school FUD lore. A lot of this stuff comes from a place where there is some truth to it or there is some use to it. Less lethal rounds for police. You know, some firearms are less drop safe. Yeah, well, maybe. If you're using the gear every day, buy better gear. Sure. But you get to a point of diminishing returns to the point where it is an absurd argument. Yeah. And I think my biggest issue with the Neo FUDs is the same issue I have with regular FUDs. It's that Have you noticed that they all tend to operate in the land of absolutes? They do. Absolutes are rarely accurate. Isn't that an absolute? No, rarely. I mean, sometimes they are, but they're often not. I qualify a lot of things. I would say anyone who's proffering you an absolute is... almost certainly trying to sell you something or convince you of something that common sense would say does not always apply. Especially if it's on the internet. I would also say that if you ever catch yourself issuing an absolute, you might want to take a step back and think about it because I have torn apart more people's arguments with just one example because they portrayed something as being devoid of any qualifiers. The only times that I tend to use absolutes is when I am teaching a new person safety rules. Because until you have a certain amount of experience, those edge cases are not acceptable. Because you're not going to be doing them anyway. I'll give you that. I will say that as I've taught firearm safety to more people, say people beyond beginners, once you get about to like the halfway between the novice and the advanced, I do start issuing qualifiers to a lot of things. Like the age old argument of like, treat every gun like it's loaded. I like to tell everybody, treat every gun as if it is in the condition it is in. For example, you do dry fire training, right? Yep. Would you ever just like go into your garage and just pop rounds off all willy nilly? I have done that into a shooting box. Okay, but my point is. It was not willy-nilly. It was very purposeful into an armored container, yeah. So, when you dry fire, you are not treating that firearm as if it is loaded. True, but I am obeying the other firearms rules. You are, but I guess that's why I'm saying give qualifiers. Because Mrs. Emmerichson would be pissed if you perforated the drywall. Yeah, well... Sometimes she asks me to do that for home renovations, but with a firearm, never. And the dog would be very upset. The dog does have sensitive ears, yes. Yes. Something you and I don't have anymore. What? Exactly. Huh? Exactly. All right, bud. I think we've worn this one out. You got anything else you want to chuck in here at the end or do we round this out? No, I think we're all right. This was fun. I thought so. FUDs just need to hush. And Neo FUDs need to join the FUDs in the corner and just have an argument way over there by yourselves. I think she's saying it's fine for me to shoot in the garage. I'm pretty confident she's not insinuating that. That wasn't to know. Mrs. Emmerich said you need to get a hold of your husband. Look, I read the phrase.... I think you saw what you wanted to see, and I'm trying to talk you out of a bad idea. I always see what I wanted to see. There it is. There's the no. Now she's saying definitively two letters, one word, no. No shooting the garage. Got it, got it, got it. I have instructed my wife for many years to be very careful about how she phrases statements to me. Oh, yes. Okay. One thing Stuart is bringing up we have to chuck it in here at the end MOF Santa is coming up so it is today right this moment we're recording October the 29th as is as is tradition the patrons will probably do the MOF Secret Santa again so if you're a patron and you're not in the signal chat be looking at Patreon for that information because I'm usually somewhat good about you know if we talk Thanksgiving-ish yeah We'll start floating information out. I don't know if this is the year that Stuart will finally pass the torch to me so he can participate. In the past, he's always shut that down and told me shut up and mind my business. Yes. I mean, he's very insistent. He's moderately more polite than that, but it basically means shut up and mind your business. Yes. But that's okay. I mean, of the two of us, he definitely looks more like Santa than I do, so I kind of got to give it to him. He does. It is necessary. Yep. I just got my nope. You got your nope from your wife. I got my nope from the proud Texan. Good. All right. Let's go ahead and round this one out. This has been Neo Fudlor. And I have no earthly idea what we'll talk about next weekend or next week. I've got a whole list of topics I got to go through and see which wheel fits on this bus. There are so many wheels. We were talking about the beard, Stuart. I was talking about old white guy with a beard not calling you fat. Now, if you call yourself fat, that's your own fault. That's true. All right. Good night. Have fun. Stay out of trouble or get in trouble and get back out. Bye. Bye. We'll be right back. Raising values while we watch the clock Turn the dial, cut through the tricks Welcome to Matter of Facts. Well, we talk prepping for the storm ahead. The iron in the hand, the words they said. Guns, politics, and the lines they drew. We uncover what they hide from you. Yeah, lay it down. No spin, no tricks. This is matter of fact. Static screams through the midnight air. A lot of folks talking, but nobody cares. For the M.O.F. Standing on the track. We look at the truth And we don't look back Well, we talk prepping for the storm ahead The iron in the hand, the words they said Guns, politics, and the lines they drew We uncover what they hide from you Yeah, lay it down. No spin, no tricks. This is a matter of facts. Yeah, lay it down. No spin, no tricks. Shout out to the MOFers. This is a matter of facts. Thank you.