Raising Values: In Sickness and in Health

[00:00:01] Welcome to the Raising Values Podcast, where the traditional family talks. You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher and Spotify, and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram. You can support the Raising Values Podcast through Patreon. Phil and Gillian are behind the mic and we hope you enjoy the show.

[00:00:29] I almost missed my cue to add to the stage because we were having a side conversation.

[00:00:35] And yeah, I'm not quite here today so I wasn't even ready.

[00:00:40] I am the producer, so if something doesn't go right it's always my fault.

[00:00:44] It's your fault. I'll let you take that one. No, it's not always your fault. Sometimes I'm distracting you.

[00:00:49] We were having a conversation about friendships.

[00:00:53] Yeah, about whether or not single men and single women can have like platonic non-romantic relationships.

[00:01:00] That'd be a fun topic for another time.

[00:01:02] Write it down.

[00:01:03] I'll put it on the list.

[00:01:05] Yeah, well good morning. We're back. We're here. I'm here.

[00:01:10] I don't know how much mentally I'm here, but I'm here.

[00:01:14] About 90%.

[00:01:15] I am still sick. I cannot get over whatever I have and I've been sick since the Monday before Thanksgiving.

[00:01:24] I've been to the doctor. I've been put on all sorts of medicine.

[00:01:29] Medicine that I don't even want to be on, but I'm afraid if I don't take it then it's going to get worse.

[00:01:34] Cold and flu season's kind of had all three of us over the barrel this year.

[00:01:38] Well, it started off as a virus.

[00:01:40] I ran fever the week before that week of Thanksgiving and then I got a little bit better, felt a little bit more energy, went back to work.

[00:01:49] Not that I missed work, but went back to work.

[00:01:51] And then, man, I just went downhill last weekend and have not been able to recoup.

[00:01:57] And so it's like sinus infection.

[00:02:00] You get all the drainage. She thinks it's in my chest.

[00:02:03] And then, which I haven't had this in so long, but conjunctivitis in both my eyes.

[00:02:09] It's like, what the hell is going on?

[00:02:11] I'm so tired of being sick.

[00:02:14] I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

[00:02:16] And it hasn't been, I'm not going to go into, I feel like I already started off this whole episode being, wah, wah, poor Gillian.

[00:02:26] But it's been a really tough two months, really, really tough two months with my parents and their health and everything.

[00:02:34] So I have a feeling our lives are about to change.

[00:02:39] And I'm not quite sure how that's going to happen or what it's going to look like or whatever.

[00:02:45] But, you know, when you have aging, sick parents, it's really, and I've never navigated.

[00:02:52] Obviously, I've never been down this road to have to navigate how to care for aging, sick parents.

[00:02:59] But dad has to have open heart surgery after Christmas.

[00:03:04] And we're looking for a place for mom to go and live.

[00:03:09] And it's just been, it's been crazy.

[00:03:12] It's been crazy.

[00:03:13] So if you have any guidance in assisted living and memory care or parents with dementia or, oh, man.

[00:03:24] We've been down this road with open heart surgery with your dad.

[00:03:28] And that was rough for him.

[00:03:29] And it was not a fun road.

[00:03:32] So I'm not looking forward at all.

[00:03:34] I mean, who looks forward to open heart surgery?

[00:03:35] But I'm not looking forward to the surgery in itself because my dad is not a healthy person.

[00:03:46] And he has not aged gracefully.

[00:03:49] And he's 71 years old.

[00:03:51] And I think this surgery is going to be really rough.

[00:03:54] And then the recovery is going to be even rougher.

[00:04:00] So, yay.

[00:04:03] Merry Christmas, everybody.

[00:04:07] Admin work first.

[00:04:08] Well, I was going to say, so if we're not on every weekend, that is the reason.

[00:04:12] Gillian is in the fetal position in her bed.

[00:04:15] Sucking her thumb.

[00:04:16] Sucking her thumb.

[00:04:18] Ringing the bell for her bellboy to come help get her out.

[00:04:22] Yeah, the bellboy to come get her out of her sadness and depression.

[00:04:27] So I think I can do the admin work.

[00:04:29] My record on Matterfax is two and a half minutes for admin work.

[00:04:34] Okay.

[00:04:35] Okay.

[00:04:37] So links for merch are in the show description if you like fun, cheeky shirts, koozies, and things that can help support the show and give you something to giggle about.

[00:04:46] A nice, fun conversation starter.

[00:04:47] Because you've actually had a couple of people comment while you were out and about around town that they loved your shirt.

[00:04:52] Yeah, at the grocery store.

[00:04:54] Which was kind of the whole reason for doing the shirts the way we did for both podcasts was we wanted to be something like, even if you weren't a fan of the podcast, you'd probably find it humorous.

[00:05:05] So, signal chat for patrons.

[00:05:07] There's now actually another chat that's been resurrected from about a year ago called MLF Summer Campers.

[00:05:14] If you're a patron, you have an automatic invite to come to the Matterfax Summer Camp.

[00:05:21] That's a lot of fun.

[00:05:22] That's going to be in Michigan this year.

[00:05:24] So, if you – we're still fleshing out the details.

[00:05:26] I think we're honestly about this close to pulling the trigger on a place.

[00:05:30] And then we'll announce that in the signal chats for the patrons if they want to come.

[00:05:35] It's not a mandatory thing, obviously.

[00:05:38] Oh, no.

[00:05:38] We go all over the country during, you know, for a couple of days in the summer when the kids are out of school.

[00:05:45] So, it's a family affair.

[00:05:47] So, families can come.

[00:05:48] And the thing is that we're very particular about – we try to resist the urge to go to, like, places that are super primitive, super low-tech, even though for some of us that's just –

[00:05:58] you know, sleeping in an open field with no running water just sounds like a weekend of fun for me.

[00:06:03] But for other people, that's a little extreme.

[00:06:06] No, thanks.

[00:06:07] So, we always try to pick a place that has, like, an option for cabins, an option for lodges, might have some things to do in the local area.

[00:06:12] The whole idea was that we bring our families out to this event, the families get together, the kids go out and play, and we just – we get to, like, knit this little community around these two podcasts a little closer together than we ordinarily do being dispersed around the country.

[00:06:28] Yeah.

[00:06:28] So, Michigan this year, like I said, we're pretty close to making a decision.

[00:06:34] The last site that Andrew threw out, everybody seems pretty happy with, and I think that might be it.

[00:06:40] Yeah.

[00:06:40] I'm excited.

[00:06:41] It's going to be a two-week trip for us.

[00:06:44] We're going to take some time to really go see the country, and I've never been past Little Rock, Arkansas, so never been further north than that.

[00:06:53] So, it'll be interesting to go.

[00:06:55] I've been all around the world, but it wasn't really sightseeing, most of it.

[00:06:58] Yeah.

[00:06:59] No time taken.

[00:07:00] And Cypress Survivalist.

[00:07:02] So, these links are also in the show description for the Facebook page and the Instagram feed.

[00:07:08] The short version is it's the nonprofit that we started up to try to do some local preparedness, community readiness events in the area.

[00:07:16] And I don't know.

[00:07:16] We'll see where it goes.

[00:07:17] If it ends up being a regional thing, a statewide thing, or going further, I'm okay with that.

[00:07:23] But I really felt like part of the mission statement that we started with, matter of facts, years ago to educate people and educate communities, it's going to be limited if it only ever happens online.

[00:07:35] So, we have to start doing some of these things in person.

[00:07:39] And March 8th in the area around Mandeville, Louisiana is going to be our first event.

[00:07:46] I think we're actually, what did we say, January 1st, we were going to make those official announcements and start advertising for it.

[00:07:54] That was before everything fell to shambles with my family.

[00:07:58] Yes.

[00:07:59] But it will be January.

[00:08:00] I'm going to take the time while I'm off for Christmas break to work on all the marketing and advertising.

[00:08:05] So, it will be January that we start that announcement and really start, what's the word?

[00:08:14] Advertising.

[00:08:15] Advertising.

[00:08:16] Yeah.

[00:08:16] Announcing.

[00:08:16] That word.

[00:08:17] Announcing and advertising.

[00:08:18] So, that was longer than two and a half minutes, but, you know.

[00:08:22] Well, yeah.

[00:08:24] So, the topic today is in sickness and health.

[00:08:27] And, you know, you and I were talking the other day about how I feel like we've had these discussions around, like, marital vows in the past and, like, what they mean to us.

[00:08:36] Why I feel like we take them so much more seriously than a lot of people in our generation have.

[00:08:41] I feel like on a person's wedding day, the majority of the focus is around the friends and the family and the dress and all the trappings of the wedding.

[00:08:53] And not as much focus placed on the reason for the wedding, which is the marriage.

[00:08:58] And, like, I can't speak for everybody, but I can say that I thought about what those vows meant as we were taking them.

[00:09:07] Because, to me, it was almost like it was a promise I was making to you, but also to both of our families who were watching this.

[00:09:16] You know what I'm saying?

[00:09:17] It was a deathly serious vow that I took that whether things were going great or going awful, whether you were sick or whether I was sick or whether we were both in health, no matter what happened, this was you and me ride or die forever.

[00:09:34] And I feel like we've had this particular assertion tested recently, but also throughout our marriage.

[00:09:42] Recently with my cold?

[00:09:44] Well, with you being sick, me being sick, Piper being sick, all three of us being sick at the same time, having to support and take care of each other.

[00:09:54] I guess when I thought of that vow, sickness and in health, I always thought of it being, like, serious illness kind of thing.

[00:10:05] Call this a dry run, then.

[00:10:07] Well, I mean, I do get it.

[00:10:09] When the whole family gets sick, and we only have three people in our family, but when the whole family gets sick, it's really hard.

[00:10:16] Because not only are you physically feeling bad, your mental state goes down, too.

[00:10:22] Like, I'm looking at our house and just seeing all the clutter.

[00:10:26] And I think I said this on the last episode that we did.

[00:10:30] You know, we've decorated for Christmas, obviously.

[00:10:35] There's a wreath and all that stuff.

[00:10:37] But I'm already over it.

[00:10:39] Like, it's just so much clutter in the house.

[00:10:41] And I guess I don't have to have it.

[00:10:42] But I don't...

[00:10:43] What?

[00:10:44] No.

[00:10:44] What does that look for?

[00:10:45] I'm waiting to see where you're going with this.

[00:10:48] I don't have to put this stuff out.

[00:10:49] I think, for me, it's...

[00:10:51] I don't want Piper to not have a memory.

[00:10:56] You know, if it were me, I'd just say, put the tree up.

[00:10:59] Be done with it.

[00:11:00] But I want her to be able to think back to, well, my mom always tried.

[00:11:04] My mom did decorate the house.

[00:11:07] And we always had this or that or whatever.

[00:11:09] I want her to be able to have a good memory.

[00:11:12] I will say we have scaled back the Christmas decorating quite a bit over the last few years.

[00:11:16] Well, with her, yeah.

[00:11:18] Which I have encouraged you to do for years.

[00:11:20] Like, baby, we don't have to do this at 11 every single time.

[00:11:23] Like, we can turn the dial down to about a 9 and everybody's still having a good time.

[00:11:27] I know, but, I mean, Christmas is my favorite holiday.

[00:11:33] What?

[00:11:33] Nothing.

[00:11:34] What?

[00:11:36] I need you to explain your facial expressions.

[00:11:39] I'm sorry, my face has subtitles.

[00:11:43] I hear you.

[00:11:44] I agree you do a lot of love of Piper.

[00:11:46] I think you do a lot of it because you get in your own head about, like,

[00:11:49] it's not Christmas if I don't do it to 11 every year.

[00:11:52] I don't know.

[00:11:53] I think I did it to, like, a 7 or an 8 this year.

[00:11:56] I even told you, don't even get that box down in the attic.

[00:12:00] I don't even want to go through that.

[00:12:02] I don't want to put up Christmas lights.

[00:12:04] Like, the front of the house, the outside, it's not done.

[00:12:07] And I'm not doing it.

[00:12:08] But here's the thing.

[00:12:09] The house is Christmas-ified.

[00:12:10] There are presents all around the tree.

[00:12:12] That was my task yesterday while Gillian was out the house,

[00:12:15] was to make that stocking stuffer run, stuff the stockings,

[00:12:19] wrap Gillian's presents, wrap Piper's presents.

[00:12:21] Like, I was Santa's little helper yesterday.

[00:12:24] And Piper helped wrap your presents, too.

[00:12:26] Well, and that's the other thing.

[00:12:28] I know this has nothing to do with the episode,

[00:12:30] but it's so much easier now that she's grown up from her childhood belief of Christmas.

[00:12:41] I know there might be kids or whatever watching or listening,

[00:12:45] but that childhood belief of Christmas.

[00:12:49] And so she's able to be a part of it in a different way,

[00:12:53] which takes a lot off of my plate.

[00:12:56] You know, I don't have to sneak around.

[00:12:58] I don't have to worry about moving anything every night again anymore.

[00:13:05] Although she is quite, she, the elf, is still, you know, she's present.

[00:13:12] She's here.

[00:13:12] She's part of Christmas decorations in our house.

[00:13:16] But I don't have to worry about all that stuff.

[00:13:20] So it was nice to walk in yesterday and see that the presents were wrapped under the tree.

[00:13:27] I don't have to do that.

[00:13:28] I do have to do ears and pipers.

[00:13:30] But, yeah, I do think I'm at like a seven this year.

[00:13:34] My presents easy.

[00:13:38] Anyway, back to sickness and health.

[00:13:40] I, what I was going to say was it does get hard when everyone is sick.

[00:13:46] I can remember last year when we all got the stomach bug.

[00:13:49] Oh, God.

[00:13:49] It was going around so bad.

[00:13:52] And all.

[00:13:53] As soon as one of us, as soon as one of us would get well,

[00:13:56] would just even start to plane out, the other one would catch it.

[00:14:00] It was, God, that was bad.

[00:14:01] Well, and it overlapped at some point with all three of us throwing up.

[00:14:04] And when that's happening, you can't just let it sit there.

[00:14:08] Like, you can't.

[00:14:09] You've got to clean.

[00:14:10] That was, I would much rather a cold for three weeks than a stomach bug for three days.

[00:14:18] Absolutely.

[00:14:18] Any day, that is what I will take.

[00:14:21] But in the meantime, there's pockets of clutter everywhere.

[00:14:26] And it's just driving me mad.

[00:14:28] Like, I need to vacuum the floor and sleep the floor and lock the floor and clean the bathrooms and all that stuff.

[00:14:34] There's a pile of clothes at the foot of our bed that I need to put away.

[00:14:36] And I keep saying, I'm going to do it tomorrow, babe.

[00:14:38] I'm going to do it tomorrow.

[00:14:39] And I keep saying, you'll get to it when you get to it.

[00:14:42] I know.

[00:14:43] You do.

[00:14:44] But, so we're experiencing that sickness in our house.

[00:14:52] The seasonal cold and flu.

[00:14:54] And I'm trying not to eat as much sugar right now because that doesn't help our immune system during this time.

[00:15:00] Especially with the lack of sunlight outside.

[00:15:05] You know, it's been raining a lot here.

[00:15:07] So we've been having a lot of indoor recess and a lot of indoor everything at school.

[00:15:12] Especially, like, even days after it stops raining, it's still so wet on the playground.

[00:15:17] We can't bring the kids outside.

[00:15:18] So that is hindering everyone.

[00:15:22] Everybody is still so close-knit.

[00:15:24] We're all in classrooms together.

[00:15:26] None of us are getting fresh air and things like that.

[00:15:28] So we're constantly just re-giving the gift of the season, which is cold and flu.

[00:15:34] But, anyway, then you add on that the sickness that is happening with my parents.

[00:15:41] And that is the kind of sickness that when I spoke those vows, that's the kind of sickness that I was thinking of.

[00:15:49] Is when I do get old and, you know, if these major ailments start to show.

[00:15:55] Or maybe there's, knock on wood, some sort of accident and you have to take care of me.

[00:16:01] Or postpartum, those three years.

[00:16:03] That was a big sickness that I've...

[00:16:07] That kind of fell into the category of sickness and health.

[00:16:11] Postpartum stress disorder, even before we got married.

[00:16:14] You were standing by my side through, you know, the worst of that.

[00:16:18] So not to discredit us feeling bad because of colds and flus and everything, but...

[00:16:24] But this was what kind of got me thinking about this topic.

[00:16:28] But what you're talking about now is more really what I was thinking.

[00:16:31] Like, was these major long-standing periods where the person you married is not the person you're dealing with anymore.

[00:16:40] Like, during postpartum, you flat out said, I am not the person you married.

[00:16:45] It took you years to come back to someone who resembled the woman that I remembered.

[00:16:53] Yep, there's your father-in-law.

[00:16:54] You marry the family.

[00:16:56] So you're stuck with mine now.

[00:16:59] I don't consider myself stuck with Carl and Jackie.

[00:17:03] It's not a stuck.

[00:17:05] You're stuck with Fritz and Donna.

[00:17:10] I'm okay being stuck with Carl and Jackie.

[00:17:13] But like I was saying, but no, I mean, like, the time that you struggle with postpartum,

[00:17:17] the time that I struggle with postpartum, my stress disorder,

[00:17:20] and that was at a period where, like, you were still trying to figure out who I was

[00:17:26] at a time I was trying to figure out who I was all over again.

[00:17:30] You know what I'm saying?

[00:17:31] Like, the way that I reacted to situations, my emotions were all bound up.

[00:17:37] Like, I went from a person who was pretty even-keeled emotionally to a person that would burst

[00:17:42] into tears if the wrong song came on the radio.

[00:17:45] Really?

[00:17:46] Oh, yeah.

[00:17:47] And I did a pretty good job of, like, holding it together when I was surrounded by people,

[00:17:51] but if I was by myself, I was a real raw bundle of emotions.

[00:17:55] I'm so sorry.

[00:17:56] It's okay.

[00:17:57] I got better.

[00:17:58] You got better.

[00:17:59] I got better.

[00:18:01] But the truth of the matter was is that, like, I can remember that time when, you know,

[00:18:07] like, we were sitting on your bed and you told me, like, I'm here.

[00:18:12] I'm not going anywhere.

[00:18:14] We're going to get you help.

[00:18:15] We're going to help you figure this out.

[00:18:17] And that gave me the confidence I needed at that moment to say, okay, she's in my corner.

[00:18:22] This will get figured out one way or the other.

[00:18:24] And I feel like we kind of did a lot of the same thing when you were struggling with postpartum.

[00:18:29] Like, there was that moment at the psychiatrist's office where they were like, oh, yeah, we want

[00:18:34] to admit your wife and inpatient her for two weeks.

[00:18:37] And I looked at the doctor.

[00:18:38] I'm like, no.

[00:18:40] I'm taking her home.

[00:18:41] You can deal with her outpatient.

[00:18:42] And he kind of got, I don't know if you remember, but he got a little ornery with me.

[00:18:48] Like, no, no, she can't leave.

[00:18:50] And I looked at him like, my wife gave birth two weeks ago.

[00:18:54] I'm holding my daughter in my arms.

[00:18:57] And you want to take my wife away.

[00:18:59] I'm not leaving my wife here.

[00:19:01] I'm taking her home.

[00:19:02] I'll bring her back tomorrow.

[00:19:03] I'll bring her back every day if I have to so you can treat her.

[00:19:06] But we're doing this outpatient discussion over.

[00:19:09] And he repeated, you can't take her out of here.

[00:19:12] And I just looked at him like, are you willing to stand between me and the door because I'm

[00:19:15] bigger than you are.

[00:19:17] That's weird.

[00:19:18] I want to go back and look at those, I don't know if I can, those medical files.

[00:19:24] Because I couldn't have been like PEC'd or anything.

[00:19:28] It wasn't at the point where they were going to PEC you because if that would have happened,

[00:19:31] I couldn't have taken you out of there.

[00:19:35] But I don't know.

[00:19:36] Something in his demeanor just point blank and period told me like, I'm taking her home.

[00:19:41] And if you want to stop me, it's going to cost you something.

[00:19:44] So get out of my damn way.

[00:19:45] And I'm leaving with my wife.

[00:19:46] Thank you much.

[00:19:47] Yeah.

[00:19:48] But, you know, like that was kind of my supposition at the time was no matter what this takes,

[00:19:53] if it takes time, if it takes doctors, if it takes, you know, no matter what this takes,

[00:19:59] we're going to get you past this and get you back to who you are.

[00:20:03] Because I saw where you were emotionally at that time.

[00:20:07] And I was like, this isn't Gillian.

[00:20:09] You know, when she breaks down, when she loses her temper, when she's short with me, when she's distant,

[00:20:16] when she's in the fetal position sucking her thumb, none of that is Gillian.

[00:20:21] This isn't my wife.

[00:20:23] My wife is in there someplace.

[00:20:25] And we're going to get her back to where she needs to be.

[00:20:27] But this kind of goes back to something I've said in the past where I've referred to love being a choice.

[00:20:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:20:33] Because, like, I know a lot for a lot of people, they'll argue that point and say, no, love's an emotion.

[00:20:38] I'm like, bullcrap it is.

[00:20:40] Emotions change.

[00:20:41] Emotions are fickle.

[00:20:42] You can feel something one minute and not feel it the next minute.

[00:20:45] When you love someone, it's a choice to love them.

[00:20:48] Even when they're unlovable.

[00:20:50] Even when they're sick.

[00:20:51] Even when they're out of their mind.

[00:20:54] Even when, you know, like, even when they're at their worst, you still love that person because you've chosen to love them.

[00:21:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:21:02] And in those moments when you were at your worst, I was still looking at you like, I wasn't looking at you like,

[00:21:08] no, you're not the person I married.

[00:21:09] I don't love you anymore.

[00:21:10] This needs to end.

[00:21:11] Like, we need to go our separate ways.

[00:21:13] This isn't fun anymore.

[00:21:15] I feel like that's why a lot of marriages fail right after they have children.

[00:21:21] Probably ought to do that.

[00:21:22] The wife, mother, is going through postpartum.

[00:21:26] She's not the same person.

[00:21:28] You know, there's a saying that says, when a child is born, so is the mother.

[00:21:34] Like, you become a mom, obviously, with your firstborn.

[00:21:40] And at that point, you're no longer who you were.

[00:21:43] Even those nine months that you were carrying that child or right before you adopted that child or whatever.

[00:21:49] You're no longer that person.

[00:21:51] You are now someone different.

[00:21:53] And I think a lot of women probably suffer in silence of trying to figure out, one, how to be a mom.

[00:22:01] I mean, there's no manual.

[00:22:04] There's no way to know how to take care of a child.

[00:22:08] You know, you've got to have to learn this new human being, this potato that's crying and pooping and wants to eat all the time.

[00:22:17] And, you know, kind of differentiate between what the cries mean and is it serious or not.

[00:22:24] Plus, you, at least in my case, I'm healing from a traumatic surgery that happened that day.

[00:22:34] Was that a surgery or was that more like a bull in a china shop?

[00:22:39] I mean, no, it wasn't surgery.

[00:22:40] I think if it was surgery, it would have been a lot easier healing process.

[00:22:45] But, you know, I'm healing from a physical trauma to my body.

[00:22:51] And then I'm having to take care of this child.

[00:22:54] My mental health is crazy.

[00:22:55] It's like, you know, I didn't even know that there was such thing as postpartum psychosis.

[00:23:03] You know, it's just it's just such a crazy time for for mothers.

[00:23:08] And I, you know, it's like I watch all these comments on the the mama page for our area.

[00:23:16] And it's all these moms who are saying, you know, my child is two years old.

[00:23:21] My child is six months.

[00:23:22] My child is blah, blah, blah.

[00:23:23] And we're going through through a divorce and whatever.

[00:23:26] And I always have to wonder, like, are you going through a divorce because y'all just haven't figured out that you're not the same person anymore?

[00:23:36] You know, this is that sickness and health vow that you took.

[00:23:40] So I think there's multiple things in play there.

[00:23:43] Part of it is, yes, I believe that I I personally believe based on our experience that like I think postpartum is probably infinitely more common than I ever believed when I was young.

[00:23:57] And it's not just baby blues.

[00:23:58] You hear about baby blues.

[00:24:00] Yes, there's going to be.

[00:24:02] Well, I don't baby blues.

[00:24:04] See, I don't even know.

[00:24:05] So I think postpartum is probably like a lot of things when it comes to psychiatrics.

[00:24:09] It's a spectrum.

[00:24:10] Yeah.

[00:24:11] And you do have those short term minor bouts of depression, which is baby blues.

[00:24:16] And then at the other extreme, we have a multi-year process of like putting your, you know, Humpty Dumpty putting her brain back together.

[00:24:24] Yeah.

[00:24:25] And there's, there's everything in the middle.

[00:24:27] But that whole spectrum I now believe is much more common than I anyone that has an experience that probably does believe.

[00:24:34] Because I do think a lot of women do suffer silently with it.

[00:24:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:39] Because, you know.

[00:24:40] Absolutely.

[00:24:41] I've said before, there is, there, there's no one more critical of women than other women.

[00:24:46] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:47] Because if you're the one that puts your hand up and says, I'm having trouble, everybody else looks at you like, well, I dealt with it.

[00:24:55] My mom dealt with it.

[00:24:56] My sisters dealt with it.

[00:24:57] My aunts dealt with it.

[00:24:57] Why can't you deal with it?

[00:24:59] You know what I'm saying?

[00:24:59] It, it turns into this thing where it's like every one of them privately went through hell because they couldn't ask for help.

[00:25:07] But now they want to make every other woman go through hell because I dealt with it.

[00:25:11] Why can't you?

[00:25:12] See, and when I was going through it, I even asked all of the women in my family who had had children, have you dealt with this before?

[00:25:20] And every single one of them said, no, I've never dealt with that.

[00:25:24] No, I've never dealt with that.

[00:25:25] Which was, made it even harder for me because it was like, well, why am I going through this if no one in my family who has had children has ever dealt with postpartum depression, psychosis, anxiety?

[00:25:39] You know, why isn't this getting better?

[00:25:41] The doctors kept saying, two weeks, two weeks you'll feel better.

[00:25:44] Your hormones will level out.

[00:25:45] Two weeks, two weeks.

[00:25:46] And I'm like, two weeks?

[00:25:48] It's been two years.

[00:25:50] When, when does this happen?

[00:25:52] So, I don't know.

[00:25:54] But I was going to say, I think the other component to that, which could be mental health related, but I think the other component to that is that, yeah, I think that for a lot of women, the minute they, and I saw Garden Girl said that it's an instant priority shift.

[00:26:09] And identity crisis.

[00:26:10] But it goes back to something I pointed out to you where I was like, I didn't, we didn't, I didn't become a dad to lose my wife.

[00:26:17] You know what I'm saying?

[00:26:18] I didn't become a dad to lose.

[00:26:21] Okay, got it.

[00:26:21] So, so like, I told, I totally understand.

[00:26:24] New family dynamic, child in the middle, child needs constant attention and care.

[00:26:28] But I feel like on top of the postpartum, there's a lot of women out there who develop this tunnel vision where it's, it's all about the kid, all about all the time.

[00:26:39] And then husband's just sitting over here on the side being like, I went from 100%, I went from however much attention I was getting before to zero.

[00:26:48] The husband is saying that.

[00:26:49] Yeah.

[00:26:49] It, it can't stay zero forever.

[00:26:51] Like, sooner or later we have, we have to like, there's gotta be some dividing of attention.

[00:26:56] And, like I've told you before, like, I get that there are times when husband gets, I tell you that to this day that I get that there are times when husband gets zero percent attention.

[00:27:05] Because, you know, things are on fire and things are on, things are breaking down and your family's calling you and Piper needs you.

[00:27:12] And I get that.

[00:27:14] But it can't be zero percent attention forever.

[00:27:16] And I feel like that is also what precipitates a lot of these divorces is that it turns into, he's, he's, he's a grown up.

[00:27:24] He can deal with it.

[00:27:26] But my point of view is, is like, if husband gets zero percent attention forever, what the hell is the point of me being married?

[00:27:31] I can get, I can get zero percent attention by myself.

[00:27:33] You know how I told you, I said, you know, you have all these moms on here who are saying, you know, that they're getting a divorce and their child is so small, so young or whatever.

[00:27:43] There are also the same women that say, my husband wants my attention all the time.

[00:27:48] He just is always wanting my attention.

[00:27:49] But I have a kid and my kid needs the attention.

[00:27:52] And you have all these comments that come in from other women going, he's a big boy, he can handle it.

[00:27:58] And, you know, whatever.

[00:28:00] But see, I did that for a while.

[00:28:01] I was so super focused on Piper and having a baby and needing to be the best mom ever that I, I thought it was okay to not be the best wife ever.

[00:28:16] You know, like all of my attention had to go to this child.

[00:28:19] I think most of that, though, was I was so scared of doing something wrong that I just made sure that I focused all my attention on her so that I couldn't, quote unquote, mess up.

[00:28:32] I think a lot of it was also that you were compensating.

[00:28:35] Because for that, there was that period right after she was born where you were not able to emotionally connect with her at all.

[00:28:41] And I feel like for a couple of years, you overcorrected to say, I have to be 100% mom, 100% of the time to make up for that two weeks where I didn't even want to do anything with her.

[00:28:53] True.

[00:28:54] But again, in sickness and in health, or if you want to expand this out to the rest of the vows in good times and in bad, I mean, I looked at it as, okay.

[00:29:04] I've usually, in our marriage, I've usually been pretty good at backing up to like the 10,000 foot perspective and looking at big picture things.

[00:29:12] And I looked at that situation.

[00:29:13] I'm like, okay, I can see what's going on.

[00:29:16] I'm not stupid.

[00:29:17] Time out.

[00:29:18] Keep talking, but hand me that sweater.

[00:29:20] Put it right here.

[00:29:22] It's the reflection.

[00:29:23] There.

[00:29:24] That's better.

[00:29:25] Okay.

[00:29:27] You're not stupid.

[00:29:27] You can see what's going on here.

[00:29:29] Yeah, I'm not stupid.

[00:29:30] I can see what's going on.

[00:29:32] But I recognize that like a marriage where you were only focused on Piper and you and I never interacted together as husband and wife was not healthy for either of us.

[00:29:46] And it was also not healthy for her.

[00:29:48] Because I was, you and I have talked over the years about how like the only, the only framework she has for what a healthy marriage looks like is by watching us.

[00:30:00] And there have been times in our marriage where I've, I've had this conversation in my head about what marriage do I want to model for her?

[00:30:09] If I, if I am ugly to her mother, then she thinks her husband could be ugly to her.

[00:30:14] If I do this to her mother, then that's what, that's what she takes with her.

[00:30:19] So like my behavior towards you, it always revolves around those two things about how am I supposed to treat my wife and how do I want my future son-in-law to treat my daughter?

[00:30:30] So it's very, I don't want to say it's tactical, like it's cold, but it's very, it's very thought out.

[00:30:36] It's very intentional.

[00:30:39] But I looked at that situation and I would say, okay, obviously this situation doesn't work.

[00:30:43] It's not going to work long-term.

[00:30:45] It's not healthy for Gillian.

[00:30:46] It's not healthy for Piper to grow up mimicking like this has to, this has to change.

[00:30:51] And those were conversations you and I had where I was like, look, this is what I see.

[00:30:56] I feel like this is kind of where we need to go.

[00:30:59] Like, what can we do to get here?

[00:31:00] And it was never, I mean, I can totally understand how like some, some husbands get, some husbands feel jealous of the attention going to the child.

[00:31:11] I can totally see how some moms feel almost like I have to protect the child because husband's trying to take the attention away from them.

[00:31:18] But I feel like all that is a very short-sighted reactionary emotion to what, to what the goal really should be, which is, yes, y'all are mothers now.

[00:31:31] But you're also wives and you're also sisters and you're also friends.

[00:31:35] And you're also, if you have a career, you're also people in your career.

[00:31:38] Like you have to be able to balance all these things.

[00:31:42] It's not healthy if you can't balance all those things.

[00:31:44] Right. But sometimes it just takes, it takes women longer to figure that out.

[00:31:49] Like, it's not going to be a jump back.

[00:31:51] Like I used to compare myself to these women that they would have a baby and a week later they were back, you know, back to their normal self.

[00:31:59] They were back at work.

[00:32:00] They were not maybe back at work, but, you know, they were just, it was almost like nothing, nothing happened.

[00:32:06] There was no life-changing event that took place.

[00:32:08] And then you had people like me where it was three years later, I'm still dealing with postpartum and how to navigate being a mom.

[00:32:16] And I think that's where a husband or partner or whatever needs to realize that this might be years before there's some sort of light at the end of the tunnel.

[00:32:30] A woman is not always just going to bounce back and be able to prioritize and figure out, you know, a compartment for everything in her life now.

[00:32:39] Because her life has been totally thrown up in the air and it has fallen somewhere that she may not even know where it's fallen to.

[00:32:49] A piece of her may be gone for all she knows.

[00:32:51] So I'm thankful that I had a husband that was able to see that and that my life figuratively and, what's the other word?

[00:33:06] Figuratively and literally exploded that day.

[00:33:10] And there was that, that Gillian that went into the hospital was not the Gillian that came out of the hospital.

[00:33:19] Yeah.

[00:33:19] No, I agree with all that.

[00:33:21] I just also think it's important to, for me to tell the husbands out there that like, yes, be prepared for a long tunnel.

[00:33:28] But don't stop walking through it.

[00:33:30] Yeah.

[00:33:31] Because I feel like that's where, I feel like that's also where a lot of couples get stuck is, like, I understand that, especially when we're talking about physical health and mental health to a degree.

[00:33:41] There are moments where you have to just admit, this is not going to get any better.

[00:33:46] Like, this is new normal from here forward.

[00:33:49] Like, I know we have a close friend of ours who I think is watching right now that, like, I know his wife has some longstanding, not terminal, what's the word?

[00:33:59] Chronic health issues.

[00:34:01] And, like, those things are never going to get better.

[00:34:03] It is the way it is from here forward.

[00:34:06] He has to step in a lot to be her caregiver.

[00:34:10] And not that she's infirmed or she's unable to do anything for herself, but, like, there are certain things, from what I understand, that she can't do for herself.

[00:34:17] And he has to be there to do those things.

[00:34:19] And those are situations where, like, this is not a, oh, well, as long as we keep making progress, yada, yada, yada, things will get better, things get back to where they were.

[00:34:28] It's like, no, no, no, this is the way things are from now on.

[00:34:30] We have to readjust to what this is now because this is the road we're going to hoe from here forward.

[00:34:37] But even in those guises, I always try to encourage people, like, that doesn't mean you stop hoeing that road or hoeing that road.

[00:34:48] It doesn't mean you stop.

[00:34:49] It doesn't mean you give up.

[00:34:50] And I feel like that's where a lot of husbands and wives fall apart is they say either this will never get any better and I'm tired of trying or they don't reexamine that original commitment in sickness and in health.

[00:35:05] I think there's another side to that coin, too.

[00:35:08] Because of just what I've noticed with my parents is the delusion of how serious the situation is.

[00:35:21] And, you know, one side of the partnership is saying, oh, well, it's not that bad.

[00:35:27] It's going to get better.

[00:35:28] Everything's going to be fine.

[00:35:30] Give it two weeks.

[00:35:31] Give it two months.

[00:35:32] Give it two more years.

[00:35:33] Whatever, you know.

[00:35:34] And everything's going to go back to normal.

[00:35:36] And there are times where I just want to strangle my father and be like, this is not ever going to get better.

[00:35:44] Like, it's only going to progressively get worse from here on out.

[00:35:47] And if you don't get out of your delusion of this is not a temporary problem, then I don't know how to help you.

[00:35:59] You know, there are things that need to be done that are not being done because of this hope that he is clinging to that it's going to get better.

[00:36:10] And it's not ever going to get better.

[00:36:12] Ever.

[00:36:12] Like, this is it.

[00:36:13] This is the new normal.

[00:36:15] This is that we need to treat things and make decisions, hard, hard life decisions that have to be made.

[00:36:24] And this is kind of where I slip in the whole, if you're our age, 40s, 30s, 40s, whatever, even in your 20s, please plan for retirement.

[00:36:36] Please plan for when you get old and when your health is going to start dwindling and fading.

[00:36:44] And don't just, this is probably going to ruffle some feathers, don't just leave it up to God to fix things.

[00:36:53] Or I think, I'm just, I'm so tired of hearing it's all in God's hands.

[00:37:01] Everything is in God's hands.

[00:37:02] Because while that is the case, I think for, you know, whatever.

[00:37:08] But there are also things that we have to do.

[00:37:13] Do I have to tell the story again?

[00:37:16] What story?

[00:37:17] I don't know if I want you to tell the story.

[00:37:18] What is it?

[00:37:20] Yes, everything is in God's hands.

[00:37:21] But God also gives us the ability to influence how things work out for ourselves.

[00:37:27] Right.

[00:37:27] We have, what's the word?

[00:37:31] I can't think of the word.

[00:37:32] I'm sorry.

[00:37:32] I'm struggling a little bit.

[00:37:33] But, you know, if there's no plan, if there's no, if there's nothing to fall back on.

[00:37:42] And like, for instance, right now we're trying to figure out how to care for my parents and their sickness and their aging and, you know, the things that are going to happen.

[00:37:54] And like I said at the beginning of the show, I think our lives are probably about to change.

[00:37:59] And that doesn't mean that either of my parents are moving in with us because, one, we don't have any room in our house for my parents to move in with us.

[00:38:11] But open heart surgery is not an easy recovery if the recovery is even something that happens, if you get what I'm saying, because I don't want to speak that into existence.

[00:38:24] But there is no plan.

[00:38:26] There is no, what happens?

[00:38:29] Where, where's that gonna, where's that money gonna come from?

[00:38:31] Where's, how are we going to care for this person?

[00:38:34] How are, how are we going to, you know, there are, I think when I was a child, my grandmother had a heart attack.

[00:38:48] This is my dad's mom.

[00:38:49] She had to have quadruple bypass surgery.

[00:38:52] She went through a nasty divorce with her husband in her 60s.

[00:38:55] He was very abusive.

[00:38:58] And my parents moved me and my twin sister out of our bedroom into the living room, moved our beds into the living room for a year so that my grandmother could live in,

[00:39:12] that she could stay at our house and live in our bedroom.

[00:39:15] And that was their plan.

[00:39:18] Well, that was such a hard time for me because I didn't have a quote unquote place to call home.

[00:39:24] I no longer had a bedroom.

[00:39:26] I can remember the stress in the house just being so crazy and everything was just kind of falling to shambles.

[00:39:33] And mom and dad were always fighting and Nana was always sick.

[00:39:36] And, you know, she could barely walk.

[00:39:38] She could barely do anything.

[00:39:39] She always had a pillow on her chest right here because it hurts so bad.

[00:39:43] She couldn't even ride in the car without having some kind of compression on her chest.

[00:39:49] And I just, I remember a lot of that year very vividly.

[00:39:53] And that is something that I never, ever want to put my child through.

[00:39:57] And I am very adamant.

[00:39:58] And, you know, I will say it to family members, to their face.

[00:40:03] I will say it on here.

[00:40:04] I will say it anywhere.

[00:40:05] I will not ever take away from my kid because someone else made a bad decision in their life.

[00:40:16] Or they didn't plan properly.

[00:40:18] Or they didn't, they, you know, it's not like old age is a surprise.

[00:40:25] Old age happens.

[00:40:26] It's not like elements of old age are, you know, it's a surprise.

[00:40:31] We know the things that happen to elderly people.

[00:40:35] We know that dementia and Alzheimer's and physical, physical ailments are a thing.

[00:40:43] You know, we know that if someone falls and breaks a hip, then that that's likely to happen

[00:40:48] because of brittle bones and all that stuff.

[00:40:51] It's not like any of this is a surprise.

[00:40:53] So why not plan for it?

[00:40:55] I think I have been so adamant with you in the last year of asking questions of,

[00:41:02] okay, what does our retirement look like?

[00:41:04] You know, if we were to ever, if any of this, these things that were happening to my parents

[00:41:09] were to happen to us, are we able to manage financially?

[00:41:13] Are we able to manage emotionally as a family?

[00:41:17] But what I never, ever want to do is one, upend her life as a 12-year-old because my parents

[00:41:27] didn't plan for their old age.

[00:41:31] And then what I also never want to do is ever, ever, ever put her in the position that I'm

[00:41:38] in right now where I have to make decisions for people that are really hard that should

[00:41:44] have been made 20, 30 years ago.

[00:41:50] Anyway, I think what bothers me so much with the sickness and in health, especially with what

[00:41:56] I'm dealing with right now with my parents is it's almost like it was a delusion, like the

[00:42:03] sickness wasn't ever going to come, you know, and that's hard to fight against.

[00:42:11] That's hard to, my dad made a comment a couple of days ago.

[00:42:14] So, and I'm really not trying to throw them under the bus.

[00:42:17] This has just been my life for two weeks.

[00:42:19] I mean, for two months.

[00:42:21] He made a comment about how I said, you know, when mom gets out of the hospital, she's going

[00:42:26] to be in a wheelchair.

[00:42:27] So we really need to get some ramps built at this house.

[00:42:31] And he said, well, I keep telling her if she just slows down, she's not, she's not middle

[00:42:37] aged anymore, you know, or no, that she is middle aged, that she's middle aged now.

[00:42:43] And I can't tell you, I almost slapped the man in the back of the head.

[00:42:47] I was like, and I yelled, I kind of yelled at him.

[00:42:49] I said, I'm middle aged.

[00:42:51] I am middle aged.

[00:42:52] Your kid is middle aged.

[00:42:54] Mom is not middle aged anymore.

[00:42:56] Like face reality.

[00:42:58] This is, this is what it is.

[00:43:00] It's almost like, um, you know, I don't know.

[00:43:03] And I get it.

[00:43:04] I, I can understand how hard it is to give up your independence.

[00:43:09] And, and while I've never been in their shoes or whatever, I have been in a place where I've

[00:43:16] had to give up my independence.

[00:43:18] After I had my car accident, I couldn't even wipe my own butt.

[00:43:21] But as embarrassing as that sounds, I could not bathe myself.

[00:43:25] I couldn't go to the bathroom by myself.

[00:43:28] I could not eat by myself.

[00:43:31] I couldn't do anything.

[00:43:32] Everything had to be done for me.

[00:43:34] So I, I understand of not ever wanting to go into that, that time ever again.

[00:43:41] I don't ever want to do that.

[00:43:43] And I, well, I won't say this part out loud.

[00:43:47] Maybe one day I will, but I don't ever want to get to that point in my life.

[00:43:52] So I understand how hard it can be to give up your independence, to give up your home

[00:43:57] and where you're comfortable.

[00:43:59] And, you know, now your life is, it's, you know, what time is your medication?

[00:44:04] Like your life revolves around what time your medication is and when is lunch going to be

[00:44:08] served and, you know, all these things that come with getting older.

[00:44:14] You don't get to make as many decisions for yourself as, um, as you once did when you lived

[00:44:20] independently.

[00:44:22] But this was something I was going to say earlier, but I didn't want to stop you because you

[00:44:25] were on a roll.

[00:44:26] Sorry.

[00:44:27] No, no, that's fine.

[00:44:28] You had a lot to get out.

[00:44:30] But I think to me, this is also where I point out to people.

[00:44:33] I'm like, yes, like this is, this is the new normal.

[00:44:36] This is, this is the thing you have to confront now.

[00:44:39] This is where we're at.

[00:44:40] But that doesn't mean you stop making forward progress.

[00:44:42] Like to me, I draw the comparison to the time when, again, you were struggling with

[00:44:47] postpartum and I felt like I had to be there to kind of like continually nudge you along

[00:44:51] because from my point of view, it was like, okay, I could take my hands off and just let

[00:44:55] her wallow, you know, let, let her wallow in the emotions, let her wallow in the anxiety

[00:45:00] and the depression.

[00:45:01] I could just totally give up ever wanting us to act like husband and wife again and

[00:45:06] just let her focus on Piper.

[00:45:07] I could do all those things.

[00:45:09] It would have led to divorce.

[00:45:11] And I knew that.

[00:45:12] Or I felt like, okay, I can do this.

[00:45:15] I can do go the harder road here of encouraging her to get help, of encouraging her to work

[00:45:21] on herself, of, you know, like trying to nudge you along because I saw that you were in a

[00:45:27] place where you did not have, I don't know how to describe it.

[00:45:31] Like you were not able to self-actuate yourself in a positive direction from where you were

[00:45:36] emotionally postpartum.

[00:45:37] You were just stuck.

[00:45:39] And I felt like I had to be the one sometimes even when it was uncomfortable to like just

[00:45:43] gently push you along and be like, honey, you cannot stay here.

[00:45:47] You cannot stay here.

[00:45:48] You have to make some kind of small inch by inch forward progress in a positive direction

[00:45:54] for yourself and for me and for Piper.

[00:45:57] You have to do this.

[00:45:59] And I look at the discussion about like people getting older and people's health failing

[00:46:03] the same way of, yes, this is the new normal.

[00:46:06] It sucks.

[00:46:06] You're going to lose some of your independence.

[00:46:08] You're not able to do everything you could before, but there's still progress to be made.

[00:46:12] Sometimes that progress is as simple as we're in our forties.

[00:46:17] We don't want to get to the position where I'm insulin dependent and where you're facing

[00:46:23] down the health problems your parents are.

[00:46:25] So we've made decisions now to clean up our eating, to get more exercise, to keep our weight

[00:46:30] in check because we know that if we don't do those things, we're going to be infirmed at

[00:46:36] a much younger age than otherwise.

[00:46:38] I've known people who are still ambulatory, taking care of themselves and driving well

[00:46:43] into their 80s.

[00:46:45] And I've known people that were basically knocking a death's door by the time they were 62 years old.

[00:46:49] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:50] And that is a 20-year span of time where the outcome you face is wholly dependent on the

[00:46:56] work you put in today when you're younger.

[00:46:59] So like some of these decisions get made years earlier.

[00:47:03] We make the decision to save for retirement so that we have the funds to be able to live

[00:47:07] comfortably.

[00:47:08] We make the decision to care for our health now so that we have it longer into our old

[00:47:13] age.

[00:47:14] And those are all decisions that you can make to influence your life in a positive direction.

[00:47:20] Those are the things that are within your control.

[00:47:22] And I feel like that's the thing a lot of people don't think about.

[00:47:26] They think what's easy, what's fun, what's pleasurable now.

[00:47:30] But then they stop thinking about, no, if we do some hard work now, it'll benefit us later.

[00:47:35] And I feel like when you talk about a sickness and a health, like it would be very easy for

[00:47:40] me to stop putting away for retirement and we move into a bigger house.

[00:47:45] We have nicer things.

[00:47:46] We go on vacations more often.

[00:47:48] Like the money's there if we decided to spend it that way and not plan for tomorrow and not

[00:47:53] plan for our old age.

[00:47:54] If we decided to just go out to eat every night because we don't feel like cooking because

[00:47:59] that takes time and it's not fun.

[00:48:01] And then our health goes to hell in a handbasket because we all know what's in the food that

[00:48:06] we're not cooking here at the house.

[00:48:08] It's all these little micro decisions that you and I make that says to guard our health

[00:48:15] so that we can have a longer, happier, more productive life, we have to do things the hard

[00:48:19] way sometimes.

[00:48:21] But I feel like that's where a lot of this discussion really falls apart is because like

[00:48:26] the thing you brought up earlier where one spouse is in delusion about the other's health, to

[00:48:31] me, the most loving thing you can do in that situation is to acknowledge this is where my spouse

[00:48:36] is.

[00:48:37] I could have very easily when you were dealing with postpartum said, no, Gillian's fine.

[00:48:41] She'll get over it.

[00:48:41] She'll be fine.

[00:48:42] It's just baby blues.

[00:48:43] But I zoomed out and looked at the situation like, nah, this is not normal.

[00:48:49] This is not Gillian.

[00:48:52] This is not my wife.

[00:48:55] I didn't have a lot to draw from because, you know, like I was, even though I'm the oldest

[00:49:01] of two, my brother and I are both adopted.

[00:49:03] So like I never watched my mom go through postpartum.

[00:49:06] I never, I never knew any woman in my family.

[00:49:10] I guess, you know, it was...

[00:49:11] Well, you wouldn't have been able to watch your mom go through it anyway.

[00:49:14] Well, I mean, I'm five years older than Mike.

[00:49:17] Oh, you're talking about with Mike.

[00:49:18] Okay.

[00:49:18] Yeah.

[00:49:18] I gotcha.

[00:49:19] How are you going to know that when you're a baby?

[00:49:22] No, I had a little advantage.

[00:49:24] I mean, you are, you are a different breed, but...

[00:49:28] But I guess what I'm saying is like, I didn't have a benchmark to compare you to, to say this

[00:49:33] is abnormal, but I knew that this was not normal for my wife.

[00:49:36] And I acknowledged that.

[00:49:38] And I felt like I did what I do.

[00:49:41] I said, nope, let's figure out what resources are out there.

[00:49:43] Let's get a plan together.

[00:49:44] Let's get Gillian on the road to getting herself back to normal.

[00:49:49] And if that, if that plan takes two or three years, I don't care.

[00:49:53] It's two or three years.

[00:49:54] There's a tunnel and there's light at the end of it.

[00:49:57] But to, to say, she'll get better.

[00:50:00] It's okay.

[00:50:00] It's in God's hands.

[00:50:01] And I admit, yes, I'm a firm believer in the fact that everything's in God's hands,

[00:50:05] but I also believe that God gives us the ability to influence the plan.

[00:50:09] Free will.

[00:50:10] Well, it's, it's a mile past free will though.

[00:50:12] It, I'm not going to tell the story because it takes five minutes and I've said on this podcast

[00:50:16] before, but God places within our hands, the things we need to take care of ourselves,

[00:50:22] to self-actuate.

[00:50:24] And if we take those things and just throw them up in the air and say, ah, God will take

[00:50:28] care of it.

[00:50:29] That's, I don't know.

[00:50:31] I have problems with that.

[00:50:32] I mean, I kind of jumped your dad's butt about that in the truck that day because he,

[00:50:37] he kind of, he kind of flippantly says, well, God will take care of that.

[00:50:41] And I'm like, God gives us the things we need to take care of it ourselves.

[00:50:46] And I, I feel like there are times when a person says God or chance or whatever, they

[00:50:52] just kind of throw the concern off and say, ah, it'll work out.

[00:50:55] And I'm like, no, it's not going to work out.

[00:50:57] I think that's because.

[00:50:58] It's going to work out if you make it work out.

[00:51:00] I think it's because there's a fear of having to face that reality.

[00:51:03] So if I just give it to God or if I just, you know, throw it to chance and think, well,

[00:51:10] it's all going to work out the way it's supposed to, which it is, it's all going to work out

[00:51:13] the way it's supposed to.

[00:51:16] But I think that it's a fear because if I acknowledge this, that means it's real.

[00:51:21] If I acknowledge that I have to make this decision to put my wife into an assisted

[00:51:27] living facility, then that makes it real.

[00:51:29] So I'm going to let somebody else make that decision.

[00:51:31] Or I'm going to fight that it doesn't need to happen or whatever.

[00:51:37] I draw the comparison a lot to like the time I was in Iraq.

[00:51:40] I came around to this way of thinking some people call it fatalistic, but I don't.

[00:51:45] But like when I was in Iraq, I acknowledged very quickly.

[00:51:48] I'm like, okay, at any given time, a mortar could land in my literal lap and I'll be

[00:51:53] standing in front of St. Peter before I even know what happened.

[00:51:55] You used to tell me that.

[00:51:57] And I was like, wow, this guy is kind of weird.

[00:51:59] Okay.

[00:51:59] But given the fact that we were getting mortared three to four times a day for a year straight,

[00:52:04] like that, that was always a possibility.

[00:52:06] And there was nothing I could do about it.

[00:52:08] So I totally just gave up and said, you know what?

[00:52:11] If the dear Lord wants to call me home today, he's going to call me home today.

[00:52:14] There's nothing I can do about that.

[00:52:15] But I also acknowledged that there were a hundred little decisions I could make every single day that I did have control over that had some influence on whether I go home, whether my friends go home, whether people I don't know go home.

[00:52:30] And I latched on to, these are the things I can control.

[00:52:33] It's like the serenity prayer.

[00:52:36] The courage to change things I can't.

[00:52:38] And the...

[00:52:40] The will to change what I can or whatever.

[00:52:43] And the ability to accept things I can and the wisdom know the difference.

[00:52:46] And I latched on.

[00:52:47] That was my life for a year in Iraq was these are the things I can control.

[00:52:51] And I'm going to wrap both hands around them and strangle them because I have control over these things.

[00:52:55] And that all of these things I have no control over, I'm not even acknowledging their existence.

[00:53:00] Totally just, it does not exist.

[00:53:01] It's not a thing.

[00:53:03] There's nothing I can do about it.

[00:53:04] So why worry about it?

[00:53:06] And I subdivided everything in my life every day into those two piles.

[00:53:11] And I feel like that's a bit of what happens in a lot of marriages is people, this is the thing they have control over, but they don't want to have control over it.

[00:53:20] So they, that thing doesn't exist.

[00:53:23] And they, by extension, try to control all these things they have no control over.

[00:53:27] And they wrap their hands around them and squeeze as tight as they can, but it doesn't help because you have no control over those things.

[00:53:33] You ignore the decisions you have in front of you and you try to focus on the decisions that, like, I'm getting, I don't want to get older.

[00:53:41] I don't want my health to fail.

[00:53:42] There's things I can do to fix that, but there's things I can't.

[00:53:47] So don't, I don't, I don't worry about, you know, people get wrapped around the axle about like, oh, my genetics.

[00:53:53] Oh, I have a thyroid condition.

[00:53:54] I have this and the other.

[00:53:55] And I'm like, yeah, you know, there are people out there have a thyroid condition, but not every single person that's obese has a thyroid condition.

[00:54:02] Some of y'all just put, don't, don't put down the spoon quick enough.

[00:54:06] And that's a very crass way of putting it, but it's kind of the way I put it is like, if you have control over a situation, deal with it.

[00:54:13] And then the things you don't have control over, don't.

[00:54:16] But I feel like when we talk about it in sickness and in health, wow, we have, we have done all of this all over this topic.

[00:54:23] I feel like when it comes, when we talk about it in sickness and in health, I feel like for those couples that truly take the spouse seriously, it becomes two things.

[00:54:33] It becomes the fact that, yes, that is that person in their, in their time of health and their time of sickness, in their time of sanity and their time of insanity.

[00:54:46] No matter what is going on with that person, you love them and you choose to love them.

[00:54:51] But it also means that sometimes loving them means giving them what they need and not what they want.

[00:54:56] It means when that person's depressed and they just want to lie in bed and suck their thumb.

[00:55:01] Sometimes that is the most charitable thing you can do is just you take a break.

[00:55:06] I'm going to take care of the, I'll take care of the housework.

[00:55:08] Like I saw a garden girl said earlier, there are times when that is 100% the right thing to do.

[00:55:13] Husband, step up, handle your business, handle your household, let the wife have a break.

[00:55:18] There are also times when that is the worst thing you could do.

[00:55:21] Because sometimes, or after a period of time, she's got to get out of bed.

[00:55:27] She has to start making some kind of forward progress back towards being who she is.

[00:55:33] Knowing when to, like knowing at what point the gravy train has to stop and everybody's got to get off at the next station.

[00:55:40] Like that's a, that's a personal decision.

[00:55:41] That's hard to figure out.

[00:55:43] But I feel like if you truly love a person, you will work your butt off to give them what they need.

[00:55:50] Not give them what you want and not always, not give them what they want and not give them what you want either.

[00:55:58] Does that make sense?

[00:56:00] Like want is not part of this equation.

[00:56:03] If love's a choice and you truly love that person, you're going to do what's necessary.

[00:56:08] Even when it's not what you want, even when it's not what they want, even when it's not popular, even when it's frightening.

[00:56:17] No matter what, you will do what's necessary to take care of that person because that is the commitment you made.

[00:56:23] It's a good place to end with your rant.

[00:56:28] I'm joking.

[00:56:29] It wasn't a rant so much.

[00:56:31] But anyway, anything else?

[00:56:33] No, I think that's about the long and the short of it.

[00:56:36] I mean, I don't know.

[00:56:39] I, I know that I tend to get very preachy when topics of like marriage and vows and responsibility come around.

[00:56:46] And that's just kind of part and parcel to who I am.

[00:56:48] But like I, I take, I take the responsibility of husband and father very seriously.

[00:56:53] And I feel like in an age where so many people our age are getting divorced at the drop of a hat.

[00:57:01] So many marriages are falling apart.

[00:57:03] So many kids are growing up in split households or growing up in single parent households.

[00:57:09] I, I really feel like there's somebody needs to like take a pause and examine what's going on around them and ask themselves, like, am I making the easy, easy decision or the right decision?

[00:57:22] Am I, am I, was I, am I in love with this person?

[00:57:26] Should I marry them?

[00:57:27] Should I have kids with them?

[00:57:28] Or is this just puppy dog love?

[00:57:29] Like everybody talks about when the honeymoon period wears off.

[00:57:31] And I'm like, well, when the honeymoon period wears off, you're still married.

[00:57:36] I mean, I'm still in my honeymoon phase with you.

[00:57:38] Oh, Lord have mercy.

[00:57:40] She got over me about two weeks after we got married.

[00:57:43] It's not true.

[00:57:44] Two minutes?

[00:57:45] It's not true.

[00:57:46] It is not true.

[00:57:47] Stop.

[00:57:49] All right.

[00:57:52] Well, we'll go ahead and start rolling this one out.

[00:57:55] We got a couple of things to get done here around the house today.

[00:57:58] And then we'll probably wind up.

[00:58:00] Take a nap.

[00:58:01] Well, I was going to say we'll probably wind up back on the couch, you know, watching.

[00:58:04] And we're cruising through Supernatural on Netflix right now as a family.

[00:58:09] And that's become the family sit-down thing for the moment until we go back to whatever it ends up being.

[00:58:18] Yeah.

[00:58:19] Well, thanks for joining us today, guys.

[00:58:21] Yeah.

[00:58:22] I hope y'all are having a great week.

[00:58:24] It's the last week before Christmas, I believe.

[00:58:26] At least it is for me.

[00:58:28] I have three and a half days left of school.

[00:58:30] And I cannot wait.

[00:58:31] It's like a week and a couple of days until Christmas.

[00:58:34] A week and a couple of days.

[00:58:35] All right.

[00:58:35] Anyway, we will, I think, see you next week.

[00:58:39] I mean, unless all hell breaks loose, I can't see a reason why not.

[00:58:45] Yeah.

[00:58:46] So.

[00:58:46] What will we talk about next week?

[00:58:48] Are we going to talk about Christmas?

[00:58:49] Phil wants to stay in with, like, he wants to do these episodes about your wedding vows.

[00:58:57] Sickness and health, richer for poor, things like that.

[00:59:00] So.

[00:59:00] I'm not stuck on that.

[00:59:01] We don't have to do that right now.

[00:59:02] Anyway, well, y'all have a great week.

[00:59:04] And we will see you next weekend unless something changes.

[00:59:08] So thanks for joining us.

[00:59:09] We'll see y'all later.

[00:59:10] Bye, everybody.

[00:59:11] Bye.