TACTICAL TUESDAY: Seeing in the Dark w/ US Night Vision on Matter of Facts

Welcome back to the Matter of Facts podcast on the Prepper Broadcasting Network. We talk prepping, guns and politics every week on iTunes, Stitcher, and Spotify. Go check out our content at mwefpodcast dot com. On Facebook or Instagram. You can support us. Be a Patreon or by checking out our affiliate partners. I'm your host, Phil Radley and my co host Andrew Bobo is on the other side of mic and here's your show and welcome back to Matter of Facts Podcast. I am starting to show off with a frog in my throat, which is typical for me, but blame the constant allergy season down here in South Louisiana. Welcome back to the show. If you're listening live dropped comments on us, let us know what you want to talk about. We have with us John and Duncan from US night Vision to talk about either the most financially crippling cool guy thing you can purchase as an adult or the absolute cheapest superpower real people can actually afford. So, first of all, thanks for coming on the show, guys, because like our audience doesn't want to listen to the two of us drone on for an hour were about this subject, but y'all know it better than we do anyway, right. Right, So yeah, let's there's a ton of things. To talk about, gentlemen. Yeah, from just that question alone, there's you know, that could be its own segment, you know, so, but it's not. That's not the purpose of today's segment. But yeah, there's a ton of options, and there's been options throughout the years that really you know, progressive price points, progressive capabilities. So I think, you know, John and I can dive pretty deep in the rabbit hole on this stuff. So happy to be here. Yeah, no, I'm glad. I'm glad you guys are here. I know, I like we talked about on the phone a couple of days ago. I talked to John when I bought my fourteen thirty one's uh from you guys, talking uh, talking to a rep from the company is one thing when the when the president calls you like hey, thanks for the purchase and all this stuff. It was like I was a little floored because like, yeah, John called and we ended up talking for like an hour, and then that just led into hey, let's have a podcast and would you guys like to come on stuff like that. So really thankful for both of you guys to come on and give us the time. So without further ado, John, let's start with you, Duncan. We'll get to you in a second as far as your background stuff like that. But John, I guess give us a like I mean, because we have so much to cover. Give us just like the history, like your history, and then like what got you into the company, Like what got you into night vision? Well, I started the company with a business partner, Chris Bird, who's not here today. But Chris and I worked for a company called NAIT. And when I went to work for an AIT was in nineteen ninety four and I was just coming out of a very short lived career in law enforcement as a young deputy. My dad was a homicide detective for the same county, Salakane County, and I wanted to in his footsteps, and then it wasn't the right career path for me, so kind of lost at the time. I went to work for my friend Ken Jamison, and they had just started in the early nineties messing around with a little bit of night vision that was all surplus at the time. There wasn't really a night vision industry by any means in the early to mid nineties. In a sense, Kennon. A guy named Scott Henry started that by buying surplus image tubes from DRML programs with the Air Force bases. And when I was first introduced to it, I was fascinated, to say the least, by the technology. Again seeing in a dark room where nobody else could see you, and kind of my wheel started spinning and realized that. In the early to mid nineties. Crack cocaine had become kind of a thing of the past and meth amphetamine had become the new hot drug. And as it. Grew, law enforcement's response to it was doing you know, raids and serving warrants and houses that they believed that methanphetamine was being manufactured. And so I started connecting the dots the best I could and brought this to the attention of my dad and his agency, like, hey, before you go, you know, throw some flashbangs and kick a door into a dark room, like you're going to get caught off guard look at this technology. And so my fascination became more of a love of it. And then the next thing I know, I'm directly involved with this company in ait to kind of promote this technology, and I did that up until late nineteen ninety nine and when I don't. Know if you guys are old enough to remember. But Y two K was a thing, and kay, the whole world was going to go dark, like you know, the computers wouldn't know how to you know, perform and basically the role is going to go dark. And so I at that time, I really was pushing the night vision narrative. To even other avenues. And my business partner Chris, and I were employees of an I T. And we were running the company for the most part, and we just decided one day, actually on a trip to Louisiana, go figure. We took the trip out there to go meet with some guys that believe the bogs that existed, and we won't get under that. But as funny as I thought that was, these guys were willing to play for spend you know, tens of thousands of dollars ago a big frame. So we kind of we had a twenty hour drive there and so we talked about things that we decided and determined that hey, we're doing all this work and the company's making all the money, and why don't we just need to throw ourselves. So after that trip, we decided to start last night. Vision started it out of the kitchen of a seven hundred spots for the home that I was wanting, and then the rest as system. So it just you know, a year and a half later, nine to eleven occurred, grew off to the races and the God's blessing and direction. We brew our company over the last twenty three years and here we are today, and we brought Dunking on board just dethics of credit. He wasn't steel. We stole him in a space to be I guess made of an offerating pay is And what I love about Duncan for an older guy, I'm fifty five, I'm definitely you know, a fifty five year old guy, and. He's more study more ways. Not very current. It's hard to stay current with the is it you know? How is it fast? As advancements of technology needs. Duncan's a younger man and he is very relevant and current space current, and I've heard a lot from him in the short calend that is going to work us. And that's why I asked him to participate, because he's going to be able to probably tell your crowd teacher, your audience a lot more than the old nasty. So duncan with that With that layup, like, what guy, what got you in this world? For first of all, not to totally put you on the spot, but how old are you? Let me ask you this? How do you think I am? You can't ask me that because I learned a long time ago that with women you underestimate the rage. With men you over. Lost and Andrew was closed. I'm seven, and that's just because I slightly remember when we talked on the phone a couple of days ago. But I am, I'm old, and I that's cheating. So to answer to answer your question, the real answer is right time, right place got me into working in the industry. I was, there's no other way to put it. I was kind of heavy into airsoft the decade ago. And uh, you know when you when you're eighteen nineteen living at home, there's no bills. You know, you're working over time, you got free money, So you know at the time, that's why I skipped going into a monocular into a goggle. You know, when you have no expenses, you can just you're rich, right, So that's how I got into night vision. Was buying a sentinel from TMC actually about a decade ago, and then right time, right place led me to start working in the industry. Started at the bottom, work my way up, and then around Halloween, John. And Chris snatched me, and the rest is is kind of history. But you know, like like John was saying, I do stay current on social media forms. I do stay current with manufacturers internationally, domestically, what's next for the military. What's next for the commercial market. More importantly, trends into performance trends and system performance housings coming out, so we can dive into all of that. But you know, long story short, really is the right time, right place for me. Two, that's how I got into night vision. It was just you know, luck of the draw. I wasn't looking for it. I don't know how you really look for work in a night vision industry per se. So it was really right time, right place all through Airsoft. Oh well, but that's the thing is like the airsoft industry, it's it's growing and it's become pretty big. I mean, yeah, so it's it's funny bring it up. I was actually just diving into the numbers last week. Airsoft's almost a two billion dollar global lostness. And the US. I mean it's like one point seven eight if I recall correctly, and the US has over sixty percent of that. And that's just twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three. So it's only going to continue to grow and exceed at two billion dollar global business. So as much as it's you knows. As you know, regulations on guns and firearms happened. You know, Airsoft also downstream from that. But Airsoft's a great outlet to test communication, to test out team dynamics that test out and kit. You know, back then, even a decade ago, I was, you know, heavy into the cry stuff I kit, you know, JPC two point zero, AirPrint, you know, all that stuff. And you have a massive audience in the Airsoft community who are like minded like myself, who when they get into Airsoft it's their real steel kit, right. The only thing that changes is your Airsoft mag and your firearm. So you know, there's been a big shift outside of Airsoft quality kit equipment, uh, you know, and and knockoff products, and a lot of real still shooters or even just Airsoft shooters themselves utilize real kit and real kid is night vision it's real lasers. It's real. You know, spirit is Systems, Cry Precision LBT and that has shifted over you know, the last decade. But Airsoft is a huge market. Yeah. And that's what's interesting is I've noticed I've noticed that there's some airsofters out there and some of the videos I've watched online because you have events like the Milsom West and I mean you have these huge events. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have these huge events that I mean they're built on team dynamics, communications like all that, all that stuff, tactics and all that. What's interesting is I've seen a lot of individuals where I mean they'll spend the money and they'll get legit gear and i mean actual CRY. They'll get like actual CRY uniforms, actual CRY like get the good plate carriers with the good plates and the communications. They'll get the pel tours, they'll get the stuff. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of knockoff like some of the lasers and there's a lot of knockoff equipment out there. But they'll spend the money and they'll get it because not only can they utilize it for the mill sim, but they can also then take it and they're Okay, we're training with exactly with what we're going into a fight with if something were whatever to happen. And so they're spending the money and so it's not just like, hey, I'm an air softter, I'm gonna I'm gonna buy this, uh, this cheap set of night vision goggles that are one hundred bucks or whatever that look real. But they're not. No, they're spending the couple Like they're spending the thousands of dollars on legit night vision. They're spending the thousands of dollars on on lasers and all kinds of stuff, lights and everything to make their guns completely realistic to what they are actually going to carry or would carry. And uh, and that's the thing is, like, I mean, when we're looking at a world that we live in currently, uh where I mean, crap is it's happening all around us. And the fact that we might have to defend ourselves at any given moment, the fact that someone is training with their gear, because like the classes I've taken and everything, the motto is, uh, to train to become a better, a better I'm a better a well, Uh, it's a more informed you know, citizen, a well armed you know, citizen and everything. And so it's like when we want to sit there and we want to learn and we want to do this, like the best thing to do is train like you fight. I mean that that's a saying that was not it was It's not a saying that came from me, but it's, hey, we're going into this, let's train. Let's uh how you know, Like the classes that I take, one of the instructors are like, well, when you're carrying, it's a handgun class. How do you carry? Do you carry outside the waistband every day? Well? No, I inside, I inside the waistband. Okay, Well do that entire class inside the waistband to where you're drawing from inside the waistband and you're firing. And that's very like that's pushed in the classes. So you know, train like you fight. I mean, that's that's a saying that, like I said, it's it's been in the industry for years, for many, many years. So for the fact that the airsoft is kind of like and I mean that's the thing is with all the the rules and regulations and training, I mean just recently the ATF they reclassified simmunition rounds on importation and stuff like that. So okay, well where do I go? Well, Airsoft? So yeah, airsoft is a viable industry. And kind of tying it into you know, i'll see night vision. You know, a decade ago when I was much heavier into airsoft than I am now. You know, you'd go to a Third Coast event. It was an you know, the very popular one. It's at GTI Government Training Institute in Bonne Wall, South Carolina. They do they host various Millson company and events, but also do a lot of real steel shooting training there as well, and some other stuff. But you know, a decade ago, out of two hundred people, twenty maybe thirty tops would have night vision, and you go to events today eighty ninety percent of people have some form of night vision and IR laser. So over the last decade, airsoft market, in conjunction with you know, real steel accessories, night vision laser devices, has really become rather prolific in that space. For a decade ago, it was far So I think that trend is going to continue to rise as more people, you know, as more bands happen and people shift focuses into other industries like Airsoft. I think there's just going to be this new level of expectation when you're playing Airsoft is most of these end users on the field are going to have real kit. Right the days of clones, the days of you know, cheap China Alley bob all alternatives are gone. These people want to train with their real kit and the only way to do that nowadays Airsoft. So I think as time goes find just more that's when Yeah, and I think. We can chop that up to a lot of veterans that came out of theater. I mean, you have. Such a huge pup tens about tens and tens and tens of thousands of veterans that came out of theater. We're in combat. And again, if you think about what guys are buying, even our kids are on target kit, which is really a polite way of saying a gun finding kit, because that's what it is is, you know, the same thing that guys have in their modeout kits. Like what you're seeing is really just a continuation of the war that's now ended in Afghanistan OEF that's being over. I think that if Duncan was to run numbers, not that we ask because it's not our business. But through just my communication with a potential customer, the next thing I know is like, yes, he was in Kandahar. You know, this is what he did. And he's just like realizing that when he was there, he had these tools that allowed him to have whether it's a superpower, just stale. And now he's a civilian in the United States and he sees the deterioration of America and the progressive movement and his concern that hey, I think Andrew you mentioned it a minute ago, just like we're living in a time where it feels like crap's about to hit the fan at any time. And if crap hits the fan, how do I protect my wife and kids and my family and myself. And we know the best way to do that is to kind of replicate what went on in a foreign land for twenty years. So you know, guys, yeah, I mean you look and you're safe. You probably have more of the you have more AR fifteen platform excuse me, rifles than you need. And so I think people are saying, like, well, I can do I only really need two or three, maybe only need one squared away carving to protect my family and protect myself. What else do I need to add to that to really make it a full kit. Well, we need, you know, body armor, maybe a plate carrier, but we need the night vision. We need the thermal, which we haven't really talked about yet. But I know that thermal has become so advanced and so much less money. I mean, if I go back when I first started my company, thermal was just like out of most people's budgets. You know, you're looking at twelve ten, twelve thousand dollars twenty years ago, which would be the equivalent even more now. And with the advancement of these clip on thermal devices like a Cody or a product like the Cody, there's others that are much less expensive than the E Cody. But Jerry five c what's that? Yeah, Yeah, like the Jerry like you know, for under five thousand dollars. You put it on the front of your fourteen thirty one or your PVS fourteen, your thirty one Delta, and now you've got thermal overlay. If a guy is on your property, or if a person is on your property and he's triggered, a camera knows that you're looking for him, even if he's laying down prone on your property, trying to hide from you, you really can't hide from it. He's just like I run an edgegy tech mode on mine and it just outlines his body. I mean, if he's trying to hide from you behind a tree, you'll just see him outlining behind the tree. If he's laying on the ground prone, you'll just see him laying on the ground throne. And it's really a very a very practical technology. But at the same time, it kind of clears out everything that it's doing, so nothing can talk more about that. Yeah, no, thermals, I mean, geez, we could talk. Yeah. I have a friend of mine that has an E Cody and I that's my next goal is to get a clip on thermal. The new E Cody is I think they're about eight grand if I remember, but the Jerry they're about three or four. Right. So my thing about thermals, and I'll just briefly to discuss it is, you know, we need I look at thermals through the eyes of COVID. Right, let's look at all of the advancements that China has made to the thermal market. Right, infrare, they can make it faster. They can make it cheaper, not necessarily better, but it doesn't necessarily also have to be better. Right, We're looking at products that are somewhat in the same realm. But Infrarey, which is manufactured in China, they do it quicker, faster, and unfortunately, because they do both of those, they do it better, right, And it's become more prolific in the hunting space, it's become more prolific in the everyday prepper space. Handheld thermals. So companies like Ira, Infrarey, companies like Armicite, en Vision, Trigicon, the ones who are making thermals, they're all making were striving to make more additional, kind of more cost conscious models that fill more roles. So thermals, there's nothing wrong with China thermal. You know, during Covida's police should see it all over the news. They'd have heads up displays like F thirty five fighter helmets reading people's temperature in the streets. We don't have that. I mean, if we do, it was never published. So you know, they're just iterating a lot quicker than we are, or US based companies are, I think, And you're just doing it cheaper, and you know, because of COVID, a lot of people no longer necessarily have the same extra income. We're not getting a COVID check, We're not you know, inflation is at an all time high. Nobody's expenditure income is what it was ten years ago. So when you have these options coming into the market that are more budget friendly or cost conscious, they're just going to be popular from the get go. And and I think, you know, some of these China thermal manufacturers fit that ticket to the to the t. You know, your your Jerry five or your very five CE. Five battery pack or non boundary pack, they're like four thousand or a little you know, right in that range, where other you know, in the same realm products are double or triple the price, and you do get more out of those more expensive products. You don't get me wrong. You know, Jerry five or Jerry C five is not an ee COTTI right, it's based on that, But it doesn't have all the same features, it doesn't have all the same quality requirements that Saffron does. It just doesn't. But I think in the commercial space, a lot of commercial end user who maybe have no military experience, no experience on this kit or their or their you know group of people don't have experience. They're fine with with the Jerry ce five. You know, they don't need that nine thousand dollars clip on. I think wrong with that nine thousand dollars clip on. But for the everyday person do they need Do you need a heads up display? Do you need comms capability? Do you need to be able to have a tax now? We just don't. So because of that, those you know, alternative. Options, those less expensive options are pretty fruitful in the industry because of that. Yeah, and that's the thing is and I guess let's get into that. So so I know, we talked about this on the phone a couple of days ago. Uh. For for one of our biggest questions we get are it's just where do I start, whether it's preparedness, Uh, where do I start in the preparedness world, like you know, food, water, supplies, all that stuff. You know, Where do I start with an AR with an air platform? How do I build it or whatever? One of the biggest questions we've gotten was where do I start with night vision? And before he cuts you loose? This is the other big question we keep getting over and over and over is is Jento worth considering for entry level? Because like really quick, like me personally, like I started off with, I started off with the PVS fourteen. It's basically I bought a I bought a helmet set up, I think it was. I saved up around seven grand and I bought it was a helmet, It was an I R. It was the D ball, the A two, the I R. It was an infrared laser with a green visible. It was PBS fourteen with a mount, the helmet, a team windy bump helmet and all that stuff for like seven grand. I ran that for a couple of years. Phil got the thumbs up from the wife to go ahead and buy no eye. He's discounting the story. What happened was we were out camping with a bunch of friends and a buddy of ours who encouraged this bad decisions. Walked up to my wife, handed her his PVS fourteen, turned on, handed to her, pointed up at the stars and her head her head crane was done. Yep. Her head craned back and said Phil, we need one of these, and I just shouted at her into the dark. I'm like, you know how expensive those things are right, she said, I don't care, and that's that's what happened. So so basically yeah, so basically, uh yeah, I sold him my PBOUS fourteen uh and I bought the fourteen thirty ones from US night Vision. Uh. And that's the thing is, I went, I've been I was wanting to go duel uh to upgrade and uh. Yeah. So anyway, and that's my road of getting into it, Like, yeah, I dropped seven grand that I saved up. But I'm a single dude with like I do, like I'm not you know what, I live by myself. I don't have a dog, I don't have kids, I don't have a wife or girlfriend or whatever. So like, I do have some extra money that does come in that I don't really spend anywhere else unless I choose to. Uh. But for the average person, I mean where, Like where would you guy? I start? Like, what would you guys start with? You want to take a duncan? Sure? So I guess I'll try to tackle both questions at once, because I think they play onto each other. So Unfortunately, within the industry and a lot of. Cases, there's an unfortunate stigma around Gen two. They think GENT two is, for lack of a better term, total crap. They think it's Gen three or nothing else. Well, the reality is, from a technical standpoint, there are major differences in performance from your most commercially common Gen two. I think you're photonics echoes think you're an MVT tubes to something like an L three or an elbow. Right, they're just you know, a at the face level Gen two versus Gen three. From a technical perspective, on average, the Gen three is going to be you know, relatively brighter, that's accomplished through luminous gain. Generally gonna have higher noise, so you see more perceived image verse static or analog noise in the Gen three. But again all that is dependent upon specs photonics, which is GENT two Netherlands and France manufactured. They have their Millspec line. The luminous gain, which is most commonly the delta between Gen two and Gen three in a lot of cases, UH is the same on the Gen three spectrum. So you know, this idea that Gen two is just crap and it's Gen three or nothing else is I think rooted in some misinformation, because there's some there's some spectacular Gen two out there and you still have this amazing superpower. Is it less expensive than than elbit yep? Is it less performance? Yes? Is it a total crapshooting performance? No? No, no, no, I was just. Let me expand because I just wanted you made a point. Some of the Gen two is not necessarily practical like photonas's no spec line. It gets to be very expensive. It's more expensive than Gen three. They have a line like the Echo line, which is less expensive. The NDT stuff is all you really need again when you're using it under normal nighttime operating conditions, because when you have a lack of light energy, so you're in a tunnel or a cave, which we don't see that here in the US, But when you're in darker conditions like that, it doesn't matter if you have the most advanced unfilmed Gen three with the highest figure of merit, because both of them will still struggle when there's no light energy for it to amplify. And that's where infrared illumination comes in. And you do hear some of the super tact the cool guys will tell you you can't use infrared. The enemy will see you. Well, we're not really let's be honest, dealing with an enemy in America that's running around with my vision wondering if you have a superpower yourself. So I agree with Duncan that GENT two is a is a great way to start and for most people using it under normal night time operating conditions outdoors in the middle of a field, when you're looking for coyotes to hunt or whatever, GENT two will definitely do the job most of the time, if not all the time. If you're budgeted for the extra money, you know, I'm a big buy once cry on Scott, I believe in that. And if you know, if you're going to spend two thousand on something that might be good or three thousand dollars on something that may be great, and you have the extra thousand dollars, then by all means do it. But you're not going to suffer from the GENT two by not doing it. So I just wanted to expand that GENT two. It's true that GENT three has higher performance in some of those cases. Photosensitivity response is definitely a big That's the main difference between Gen two and Gen three is the gallium arsenide photocathode in a Gen three versus a multialkali in Gen two because gain a signal of the noise resolution. We're seeing all that with photonics and MVT, right, Duncan, those those spets are almost all equivalent. But the photocathode sensitivity or photo response is the difference between a Gen two and a Gen three primary. And I'll build on that for a second. So you know, again, photonis makes Gen two, but unfortunately people have this stigma around Gen two. Photonas is Europe's provider of night vision, right, which is bigger than America. Right. You know, as US citizens, we have you know, privileges to own night vision that civilians and other countries just can't. But Sotanas is netherlands provider of image tubes and systems. So for anybody to claim that their subpar in any means or you know, below any kind of standards is just foolish because they're a global manufacturer in a global standard and night vision and they make phenomenal products. MVT is a phenomenal budget option as well. We're not saying, I think it's important to note John and I are going to say that MVT that we offer is better than ALBIT. It's just just. Not performance wise, is just not it's better priced, right, But I think it's price conscious to the entry level person. Two. If you have some expenditure income and you want a second set, MBT is a great option. If you want to get into it, MBT is a great option. I was just flying back from North Carolina back here to California over the holidays. Took an MBT fourteen with me. John, you've seen the pictures at. Thirty thirty five thousand feet thirteen hundred fifty figure merit so a rather low threshold bomb tube Gentowo. Phenomenal picture. Phenomenal picture, and we have the only light in that picture is from our space at thirty thousand feet over you know, deserted mountain ranges, you don't have light forlos. When you get the stars, you've got the moon, and it's pitch black in an airplane. So to be able to see something out of nothing at a twenty seven to twenty one hundred dollars PBS fourteen, that's phenomenal. Right. We're not saying you're going to be better off than the guy with L three quads or a thirty one delta. Nobody's saying that, right, But I think to answer your question, NOE gent two is not crapped. Gentowo is a fabulous and perfectly acceptable starting point, whether you go the commercial route through Photonis tubes or MVT tubes or hell I've used the photonas PD pros and that line with your full spec stuff. Yeah, like John was saying, it is a little over the top in price. You know, you're getting into the you know, sometimes it just costs a lot more than you think it probably should. But by no means does that mean it's a terrible tube. Everything that I've ever used with batanas, you know, I've seen thousands and thousands of Patanas tubes great, great an NBT. I've seen hundreds of those two fabulous. So it's you know, the NBT that we offer here is a great starting point. It's also a great. Ending point, right, you don't have to upgrade like that's the other thing, you know. But I think a lot of people fail to stress. I know we us night Vision streuss this. It's not just about getting a product or a kid item. You have to go out and use it. You have to go out and train with it, do the mundane tasks, read a book, mow the lawn, hold your clothes, you know, walk up and down the stairs, throw a ball, catch something. You know. The important stuff is getting your kit, whether that be NVT, Photon's ELBT, elfree, whatever you're gonna get. Get something that you can afford. Now, everybody has their own different definition of you know, what you can and can't afford a person a person. That's fine. Just get something that's the important start and then go out and use it. Start training, start taking classes, and from there you can build your kit, whether that be an additional whether you want to bridge to PBS fourteens, whether you want to upgrade and get a goggle six months from now. But get something regardless of what that price point may be, and just get out and start training, is my personal perspective. Yeah, and before we get into we had to comment in the chat here before we get to that really quick. I guess I look at I look at night vision kind of like I look at building a rifle. When you're under a budget and you're looking you're building a rifle, it's like, Okay, this month, I can get this, this week, I can get this part. Stuff like that. When you're putting money away for say, say a PBS fourteen, would you say it would be good to just maybe start with like a team windy bump helmet, start there. Hey, Okay, I got the bump helmet. Okay, Now I'm gonna buy the mount. Okay, buy the mount. Okay, now I'm gonna buy you know, either the laser first, because I truly believe that a rifle needs a IR laser higher dosignate or something. Or if you have a pistol, I believe that red dots are needed on a pistol, especially with nods. You know, is that a good Is that a good way to think about it? Like? Is that a good way to approach Like when you're under a budget putting so much away for Okay, I got this PVS fourteen, I really want it's three grand. Okay, I'm going to put two hundred dollars or one hundred dollars a month away whatever I can afford towards this PVS fourteen. In the meantime, I'm also going to try to put some money away for the helmet. The mount a light and I are light a laser stuff like that? You know, is that a good way to approach it too? I would recommend so US night vision is always sold turnkey kits, and I know that. I'm aware that there are some other companies that will sell you at a PBS fourteen and you're forced either hand hold it to use it. So when it comes to the helmets, I believe, I mean I run a helmet I have for twenty something years. It is the way you really want and should run a night vision device. But instead of waiting to purchase something, I would say, I think Duncan actually references earlier. You start with a night vision device and then everything else follows, and if it's within your budget, you know, if you can afford to buy the fourteen kit at the same time, buy your helmet and amounting, whether that be a uptail or bayonet, you do that. But our kits you can start off by a PVS fourteen. It comes with everything you would need to run a hands free so it comes with the skull crusher headmount. It comes down here with the jar that's compatible with the skull crusher head mount, and then you're now you have a PDS fourteen and if nothing else and crap hits the fan. Training is key to anything we do. Whether it's golfing, basketball, badmint or something else. You got to get out and use it. And so part of that is is instinctive shooting. If we're all, if we all can relatively point well, we can shoot a weapon well enough to hit a target at closer distances. So you don't, I'm you don't run a night vision device without an aiming device like an I R aiming laser, for sure, But if you can't afford that, I wouldn't recommend necessarily waiting to be able to afford your laser before you get vision. I would. I would say you buy one piece out of time until you can afford to build your kid out. And yeah you would probably. I mean I would almost go to an ir amulaser before a helmet, only because you can wear you're fourteen on a skull crusher and still do the job you need to do. And so that's my opinion. But no, that's good. And that's the thing is like, because I know I'm on your guys' website right now and just going off with some of your stuff, just that idea that knowing that if I buy a previous fourteen, it's gonna have the it's gonna have this this and this. So, because I know a lot of people, like they'll sit there and they're like, okay, well I'll ball that I buy the previous fourteen. But it doesn't say I get a skull crusher, it doesn't say I get a helmet, it doesn't say all this stuff. So they're like, well, how do I mount it? And so that's where they get a lot of questions of Okay, I have this, but now how do I mount it? Well, if they know that this kit comes with the previous fourteen, a jarm bayinge that stuf j RM, and a skull crusher, Okay, cool, that takes a lot of worry out. Okay, I do want a bump helmet, but now it just went down on my list versus okay, now I can put some extra money towards an I are, you know, an I or laser or a red dotter or something to maximize your efficiency on your rifle. You're a pistol, so and I think to build upon what both of you just said, since you're on the site, you know, under their turn under our turn key offerings, we have a thirty five hundred dollars offering that's a full kit. You get an MBT PBS fourteen bump helmet, rhino mount which you know you utilize the j RM four and an aiming laser right a dire one. You get all that for thirty five hundred dollars. So if we're talking about budgeting, right, you know what's great about us at US night Vision is you know we're giving you some damn good performance for not a lot of money. If you take thirty five hundred. Dollars and shop around, you know there's a lot of places that you're just going to get that single unit, or you might not even get a single unit, right, And we have offerings and opportunities for anybody to take advantage of, which is, you know, for that same thirty five hundred dollars, we're. Giving you the whole ko. You get the helmet, you get the bomb, you get the adapters, and you get a laser. I mean, you can always upgrade to to Elvit or upgrade to a golf. There's just a ton of opportunities to maximize or spend with us that's not necessarily breaking the bank, or when you're shopping around, it could be on par or even less in some cases to others. And you just end up getting a lot more. So I do want to circle back around to this question that's been lingering, and it's this is probably the perfect spot to put it in. But somebody asked, if they purchase I'm pretty sure the exact same kit you just referenced, would they be able to upgrade to Gen three or dual tubes later without having to upgrade the mounts. I know the answer, but I want to hear. From y'all the answer. The answer is it depends on how they hit the kit. So if they're you a lot, well, yes and now. And the reason I say that is because so like our on target kit which you just referenced, comes with a bayonet style mount right, and goggles do not interface with bayonets. However, nearro toast has a bayonet to dumb nail. So the short answer is yes and no. Yes, you might need an additional napter, which is that bayonet to dovetail to interface on goggles. It runs about one hundred dollars. Right, for the sake of a visual for those that are watched on YouTube, that's what a bayonet style mount looks like. I don't have a dubtail, but it looks nothing like this, and it interfaces with a mount that is meant for a bayonet style hell mound. So if you have these, you're in one ecosystem. And if you have with Duncan's holding up, that's dubtail. It's a different ecosystem. Now, the arms should connect to a PBS four team regardless, but if you switch out, if you try to switch to something like duels, I'm pretty sure all the duels require dovetails. You'd have to replace this piece, which will run you I don't know five hundred. Yeah, I was about telling that you're looking at well, you're looking at what you guys have the rhinal mount, but the G twenty fours they, I mean the the dovetails. Anywhere between five and six US. Sorry now I was gonna say anywhere between five or six hundred bucks. So, you know, going back to kind of answer this guy's gentlemen's question again, just because our kids if and I always when I it's always important to have a conversation. So call myself called John call us. Right, if your long term strategy is in six to twelve months to get from a fourteen to a gomble, we will build you a custom solution where you don't have to get an additional amount later. Yeah, it might up front cost you a tabit more. If you're getting a G twenty four versus Rhino and a j R a dovetail j RM versus bayonet style, Right, it might cost you a little upfront, but you're gonna have some better mounting options from the good go and then down the line in six to twelve months, you have that G twenty four which interfaces with every goggle out there and then every monocular or if you want a dual bridge your goggles, you already have that G twenty four to put it on a on a dual bridge, whether that be a powered or non powered handel bridge or what have you. Right, So. You can approach it a few different ways. My recommendation is if for anybody who has long term, in the six or twelve month window ambitions to go from a monocular to a goggle and just give us a call, let us upgrade your mount from the start, right, so you don't have to get another mount down with it. And you end up saying. Yeah, and that's the thing is like, that's what I found was so when I when I sold Basically Phil bought my PBS fourteen kit he bought. I sold him the PB fourteen and the Wilcox mount and and the j arms and stuff like that that I had just because I knew, like I needed to get into the dovetail. But then I didn't take an account of buying the dovetail. So then when I realized that, I reached out to John and yeah, basically, like I ended up buying a Rhino mount for the Dovetail. So so yeah, I mean it ended up working out. But yeah, that was the biggest thing that I overlooked was going from a previous fourteen to the duels is going from a jarm bayonet style to the the Dovetail. So and I yeah, yeah, and that's that's gonna be. I mean, that might be one of my next purchases is the Wilcox G twenty four just because how tight it is. But that's besides my point. But but yeah, so let's get I want this question from Rago Fraggle here, what's the pros and cons of a weapon mounted night vision versus headgear mounted I. Run, I run a cody. And again, if it's if it's simplicity, you're looking for and get that thermal over me. I don't think. I don't think it can be deep. Like I love the clip on thermal, I own both standalone thermal as well. Uh. I like the coyote hunt. Out where I live in Idaho, there's derret, We're surrounded by dairy farms, and where there's cow's, there's kyotes. So uh, A dedicated thermal weaponsite is something that I would recommend for the hunting side, if you will. But if we're dealing with. The idea of self defense and protection, and again, what thermal doesn't allow one to do is identify somebody's face. It has come a long way with regards to resolution. I like running that in a black cotton mode versus a white hot you can almost identify somebody. But that is a digital thermost digital versus night vision, which is analog. So night vision seees exactly what our I see, just with light amplification. When you're hunting, that's not so much of a concern because you're out calling coyotes and a dog comes in your field, you could definitely tell with thermal technology the difference between let's say a bulldog and a coyote. If you're dealing with neighbors who might have shepherd type dogs, you want to make sure like you're not shooting your neighbors German shepherd versus a coyote, because they will look more similar. But I love the idea of the thermal clip on for your night vision device because it still allows you to have that analog technology where I can say there's Andrew, there's filled, there's Dunket in a field versus there's three, you know, six foot tall medal adults, which is what thermal by itself can probably complicate or confuse you buy. So I love the I love the clip on. I think it's a great addition, especially because it's not necessarily ten thousand dollars for a new cody. You can buy the Jerry C five for you know, under four or five thousand dollars and. It does everything you needed to do. It maybe doesn't have all of the advanced features of an eat Cody, but you don't really need it. In my opinion, what about night vision, like clip on night vision to a rifle versus head mounted Like if we're just if we're looking at just night vision and you had so much money to spend, would you spend that money on like night vision device that goes on a rifle or would you rather, you know, or would you see put it on the helmet. No, there's a lot of dangers to. Night vision into a rifle, especially when you're using it around other people, because you're going to sweep your weapon on somebody you don't intend to shoot. So in the early days of OIF, the PBS four teams were very new, and almost everything came with a small arms mount, and then the small arms mounts were designed to be placed behind mounted behind like your eotech hollow side or your end point back in the days would be like your cop ms you know before we've really got better day optics, but holographic sites or comp ms of even the trigicon like the a cod you know, they were designed to be mounted behind those, and that would give a soldier a capability to convert their point of aim on their day optic into a night vision capability. The problem was is when you were marching in a desert or whatever, and something would come in within your field of view and you would sleep your weapon across your body standing next to you. It was very dangerous and I you know, we just got phased out of it pretty quickly, So dedicated weaponsites or even clip on something would go in front of your existing day optic, maybe more traditional tube optic like a three and a half to eleven or one to sixth day optic. I think that's great for again getting back to your hunting purposes, but not necessarily for a standard of use all. I think the best summary perhaps is is to build on what you said, John, is you know clip on night vision definitely has a place. Is it commonplace for the everyday person? Absolutely not, you know any Is it even the best option for hunting? No? I think I think thermal is probably The advancement in thermal has probably made thermal the more obvious choice. In the hunting application. But you still have a really small group of people who want to shoot at night distance. Right, That in itself represents or introduces a whole new challenge when you when you're talking long range shooting and clip on night vision, right you have you're talking you know, elimination down range, You're talking compatibility on a lot of factors. You know, you're adding a lot of glass to a lot of glass. So I think it's not a mainstay option for a lot of people. I think, like John said, if you stick to only weapon mounted options, you're going to be flagging everything you're looking at. It's not ideal, it's a safety concern. So helmet mounted options really becomes the I don't want to say the only option, but it really is the only option for for safe, reliable performance and and safe reliable experiences when you're using products verse just a dedicated rifle option rifle excuse me, rifle mounted night vision. The analogy of going to give for the audience was we've had this conversation before about carrying like an independent tack light versus strictly weapon mounted lights. And like I tell everybody, the minute you put something on a firearm, it has one purpose and one purpose only. Because if I'm in my truck and my daughter's in the backseat, says Dad, I drop something on the ground, I can grab this and hand it to her. I cannot take my gun with a light on and say here, honey, shined this at the floorboards so well I could. My wife, who may or may not be listening to this. Would slap me. Dude. I would get wooden spoon to death. By the Italian woman. Okay, But my point is so that that's the thing I tell everybody about when you when you when we start talking about weapon mounted night vision, if you put on a weapon, it only has one purpose. Now, but as long as it's on your noggin, like you know, we talked about this right before the show started. Like most of my experience with night vision is actually with administrative struck stuff. It's truck driving and it's it's no land nav and it's scouting and it's Century duty. It's all these things that don't involve punching holes and things, and you can't do any of that when you affix your night vision to the rifle. So Will I would not go so far as to say it has no place, but like I think it's a much narrower application than most people think it is. It's a very small market segment. Yeah, so we're coming up on fifty five minutes here. I want to get into really quick cause I'd like to try to touch on lasers as well, because you have some really good options on your guys's website. Really quick though, for people who are looking into and researching night vision on what they should get a lot of people focus on specs. So we have things like BOMB, the figure of merit, the sn R, the EBI, stuff like that. The halo, like when someone is looking at when they're researching what they should get or what is good? What's something that they should look at, like, what's something that, What's a number? What's what? What should they pay attention to. I don't necessarily think there is a number, there's no, there's not necessarily a cut or dry yeah or nay. Right. I think it's unfortunately the case in the commercial market now over the last couple of years, where where people are spec intensive, where they may not, they go down a rabbit all simplified, they go down a rabbit hole that is probably outside of their depth and and not all information on public forums or public access is even accurate. And I think it you know, chasing farm chasing, sn R chasing, you know, whatever you're chasing speck wise, I think you end up getting too caught up in doing that that you fail to realize that there is no perfect too. There is no perfect night vision system. You know, John totally, John and Chris have toward L three. I was just in Roanoke touring elbott seeing how tubes are made. If they could, if these two manufacturers could make deep perfect two, they would, right, because they could charge it. They could make a baby, right, right. But that's why you have certain spec thresholds. Right, And everything from us, you know, everything that we offer, you know, publicly, is already at a higher threshold than the minimum performance spec of that specification, whether that be Comspack, whether that be Millspeck. We hold our offerings already to a higher caliber than just the baseline Millspack, right, because the baseline stuff could be even in Gen three, you can have you know, sixteen seventeen hundred farm and that be a mill Speck, do d omni rated two. Right, But we go a little step further. We do the we do the homework, We do the work for you to say, hey, you know, we understand what the specs are. We're going to already take it a step further, offer you something above just the minimum, right that the Department of Defense, the Army, you know what have you? We already offer an above caliber standard to start off the base. So I try to tell people don't get at the weeds with specs, because you know, John's been doing this since the inception of night vision. Almost you still see. It night you can still kill people, you can still protect your family. Whether Gen one, Gen two, Gen three, your experience may be different in how the two performs. But get something train with it. Don't spend ten hours reading forms on SPEX and EBI and everything else or because it's irrelevant right on paper, It matters. In lab testing, it matters, and in very finite environments of course, right. But for the average person to get hung up and look at a two point five EBI versus zero point zero, right, No, they're both in spec. Right, If you have a zero point zero and a two and a half EBI, both of those are spec right. Two and a half is mill spec max zero point zero milkspec bottom. I've seen zero point zero EBI. I've seen upwards of five EBI on some commercial stuff. You know, it matters the most when you're in environments that you can't see anyways, Right, So you've got to have your LAMB, You've got to have your IR, you know. So when a lot of these specs nitty gritty matter, they're in situations where, regardless of what you see, you need the aid of IR. It's only going to benefit you in those situations. So don't get hung up on specs. We're already offering a higher than minimum standard across the border what we offer at US night vision, So don't get hung up on the specs. You're going to be presentible situations where IR just needs to happen. You need to have it, and. That doesn't matter if you I do the analogy. It doesn't matter if you spend one thousand dollars or a million dollars. There are certain situations where if you don't have IR, you're screwed, right, you. Just I think that I think that's what you were talking about earlier, is that, like I made a comment or like you know, you can't use ILL the enemy has I or the conceit us an IR. That is just a retarded thing to say, because we're not dealing with an enemy number one. And that's again running around with night vision trying to see if you're admitting it out of your face. It's just not and I it's definitely not the enemy. When it comes to night vision performance, it will only enhance it. And again, if you'd ever had to use it, let's say inside a cave or an underground tunnel, you were lighting up with the IR because you couldn't see without it. I mean, there's no light energy in those places. So don't Yeah, I would not fear infrared. It will only enhance your overall night vision optical clarity in any circumstance, even in an open field. We used to run I used to run our spotlights, like two million candle cow spotlights. But the coolest thing was is when you would have like pigs, if you're hunting hogs or you're hunting coyotes, and they were bedded down at the edge of a like a brushline or a tree line, you couldn't see them with night vision. You just they if they're betted down that moving, you wouldn't see them. And what would happen is like your eyes will act almost as a mirror, as a reflective format, and so like when you'd hit them with i R, you would just see like two flashlights come on in the distance, and then you could realize that that is a an animal that you're trying to hunt. So uh, just to kind of add ons like infrared can only make it better and it's not going to give away your position because I doubt that you're really if somebody's hunting you. You know, you have other things to worry about other than activating your inflight illuminating right, No. That makes sense. Yeah, man, I feel like we could go on for another hour on this. It's gonna I don't know if you guys know you signed up for a couple couple of sessions. Yeah, no, I Hey, honestly, I'm I'm okay with this. I'm you're you're already twisting my arm to purchase something right now, and I'm just and I've already got some stuff, so I'm looking at purchasing more. But uh uh no, I we we're going on an hour. If you guys want, I'd like to we we need to do another episode just because of Yeah, I would love to do another episode because we have I mean, we need to dive into lasers and I are like I are illuminator. That we needed to cover. Oh my god, with everything we talked about on the phone the other day, it was like and like I said, we have some bullet points where we try to hit, but it definitely goes down. You know, when we start going down on good conversations and stuff like that, I hate to break off. And let's stick to it. Let's stick to some bullet points because we need to. It is what it is. So yeah, yeah, I don't know. I'm speechless because this is such an interesting topic to me since I've gotten into I have a good friend of mine who's an instructor, who's a firearms instructor, and I just did a night vision class this past summer, and I'm constantly looking at now I'm like, man, I really want to do another NODS class. And like I said, I'm a civilian. I did not do this stuff in the military, but I think it's needed in the civilian world. This stuff is needed whether you're whether you're prepping for the apocalypse or you're hunting, you're hunting critters at night, hogs, coyotes, whatever it is, thermal night vision, and you're just you're gearing up to protect your family. I don't know how many times, Like I mean, like I've been in my house now just a year and a half and that I just bought, and when I first got in there, like, yeah, I live by myself and so like the creeks and the moans of the house. But there's times, honestly, like the neighbors would do something. I would hear a car alarm going off, I would hear I would hear people outside like carrying on doing whatever. I honestly, I would turn my lights off, I'd grab my night vision, and I would actually go up to my second floor of my house and I would look down and I would black my house out and I would look down through through the window down on the street with my night vision, just because of like, hey, I don't want to necessarily be seen like a you know, I'm looking around and I'm trying to fgure out what's going on, but I want to be kind of a little bit stealthy, So like I'd put my night vision on and I'd look around. And that's just like and when you're thinking about worst case scenario, whether or not it's a crap hits the fan or whatever it is, you've got to be prepared and doing this kind of thing, Like I feel like you're you're just trying to protect yourself. And yeah, it might sound silly, but when you have somebody that it sounds like gunshots going off not right right next to your house. I mean, I'm putting my freaking night vision on, and I like I did, I put my night vision on, I grab my pistol or rifle whatever, you know. I've done it a couple of times and like I ran and like I blacked out the house, uh just because like I was like, okay, well what's going on? And so information is key. So I'm looking out, I'm like, oh, it's people freaking being stupid and they're lighting off fireworks that sounded like freaking gunshots, like and so you know, nothing to be afraid of. But unfortunately, in my town, we have a prison that's not far away from me. We have their art, Like the myth is pretty serious in my neighborhood and in my city. So I just I don't want to be like and that's what this is where I'm with civilians, Like really, I'm really pushing for people to get night vision. It's neat and so having you guys on to kind of break it down, Like I said, we talked a lot. I mean, we talked a lot about different things. But I'd love to have you guys on again. Like I said, we're approaching. We just don't went over an hour, so I know you guys are pretty busy, but i'd love to have you guys back. On I know absolutely. I know we talked about this during the initial call, but wanted to publish this. So for any listeners of this podcast, if you use code MOF, it'll save you three percent on anything on our website. So you're buying night vision, if you're buying a laser, use code MOF. It'll save you three percent. So and I'll publish that. I appreciate that in our next one too. So for anybody who wants it, you have it. But yeah, just a little side out throw that in there, some additional savings podcast. I really appreciate that, so, and. I wanted to I'm sorry, Andrew, I was just gonna add to Duncan saying, is that one of the things that Chris and I have been able to do over the years. Again, we're very blessed on not taking credit. You know, we've done a tremendous amount of business over twenty something years. I think it's like one hundred and sixty million dollars. Like what it's allowed us to do is it's allowed us to inventory night vision components, to build like we don't we don't, for lack of a better analogy, like we're not like a fast food restaurant. We don't put a bunch of food underneath the burners like our guys, our technicians are literally building night vision daily for orders that are coming in, you know, the week before. And like during COVID was a huge. Ego builder for Chris and I because instead, like we saw our competitors like quoting out like without exaggeration, like twenty four twenty six weeks weeks a half a year, and like my comment to my tribe was like, dude, the civil war will be over in six months, Like you're going to lock up five six thousand dollars and then wait six months, like how these companies will be out of business. And like for us, we were shipping, and like even during COVID with you know, supply chain issues, like we were shipping within four or five weeks. I think, like today we're shipping, like and we always like on the website it'll tell you like thirty day lead time and we want you to give it up to that thirty days, but we're shipping like in four or five days. Like I mean, you buy something today, you're getting a tracking. Member of your shipment within a week. In ninety time, I bugged the crap out of John and Chris. So we make stuff happen a lot quicker. We just like to play it safe. So John's downplaying how good our service actually is not gonna lie. You know that's seven to fourteen, you know, daily time on everything on our seven to ten days. No, it doesn't actually take that long. Give us that long and then you know, let us surprise you. And whatnot. But no, we're like John said, we are building every day. It's that under promised delivery that is kind of the base model of the company and has been. And you know, giving Duncan and Chris because I live in Idaho for the obvious reasons that people like me leave California daily. I left California like twelve years ago. But you know they they run My company runs very efficiently. Very proud to say that. I give that credit to the Dominic's, the Duncans, the chris Is, the Steves, the Joe's, the Kalin's, like the team that we have in place. We just run a company the way we want, we think it should be run. And again that is that under a miss over deliver mentality. And so that is what we are very honored with some of the reviews that we have in the market, there's a lot of mostly very nice things said to us. I don't even think there's any negative things because we haven't made mistakes and enough long enough time that that pops up. But yeah, we have. We are definitely on top of the game right now. And that's a really good point because I mean, you know, I hate to hate to be the one to point out the elephant the room, but like night Visions by no, by no reasonable person's metric a cheap thing to get into, and I think it is super important that, like you said, you know, when when you're when you're taking a customer's money, and it's not in consequential amount of money. I mean, I the amount of money I've spent on night Vision, which is pretty I think, a pretty you know, entry level to intermediate setup at this point. I mean that's more than I spent on the first two cars that I owned. You can't even buy lesson I mean literally, like you can't even buy a piece of nine Vision for a thousand dollars. Not form must and it was we don't have anything, but that's inexpensive, but a thousand dollars to anybody, I don't care how much money you have unless you've just lost humility. Like a thousand dollars is a lot of money to anybody. I got to imagine, and like you're spending like three times that amount of money with my company. So like, yeah, we don't take that for granted, Like we understand it. We've all been there. I ate mustard sandwiches. For the first three years that I started my company, I couldn't afford meat to. Put in between two pieces of bread. And thank god, that mustard in the year two thousand, you know, was still like fifty nine cents for a bottle of you know, store branded like mustard. Like I listen toast that bread and put some mustard between it, like you're even steak in love serve Baddy like there was some hard prime. But we we did it, and again we want them. We want your customer base and our customer base to know that like we appreciate it. You you know, you put food on. Our table and we returned that by not sitting on your money for six weeks or six months for that matter. Yeah, for sure, No, I you know, I but I do see whether it's one of you or both of you. I'd love to have both of you guys back on, but we need to I think we need to follow up and we'll make a I think we need to follow up soon on episode two, uh, and to cover additional uh night vision such as thermal and IR or not thermal sorry, but I R and lasers and all that stuff, because there's so much to go there. The rabbit hole is huge when it comes to I are up to night vision, especially when you have the IR lights, you have laser aim you know, the laser aiming devices and stuff like that. So but where Yeah. In line with that conversation, So yeah, I think I think you know, a second or maybe even a third, depending on how the second one goes, maybe wanted. Yeah, I'm happy. I mean, I we talked about this on the phone, but I mean, heck, we'll talk about this more. I'd love to have you guys on as much as possible. You know, So you guys are awesome? Yeah for sure. So where can so really quick? I mean, where can people find you guys? What's your website? Don't don't don't come over to our houses? Yeah you might, you might, you might get let up. Yeah, So we're on Facebook. We're on Instagram, www dot us, night Vision dot com. We'll answer the phone on Google website, and for about eighteen hours a day, seven days a week. You find me on live chat. If you're on our website, on the bottom right corner of our or homepage or any page for that matter, click chat and you're chatting with me. We don't have AI box, we don't have anything else. I do sleep sometime, but for about eighteen hours a day, seven days a week. So the other day, when I was surfing y'all site before this show, that was you that popped up in the chat saying, hey, let me know if you have any questions. That's Duncan. Yeah, that is actually Duncan. I apologize for calling you an AI chat by. So I'm not gonna lie I did. When I popped on your guys' website before we went live, I was looking around and like the thing popped up and was like I said, Duncan. I was like, oh, man, I should just say hey, what's up, like right in the middle of the show. But okay, So I wasn't gonna do this, but only because we brought it up. Funny enough, there's a listener called Brian, who's listening to this podcast right now, huh, who was also on the live chat. He might have been the guy who asked them out. He went in the live chat, thanks for answering my mouth question. So Brian, glad we could answer that for you. And yes, I am behind the live chat all the time. So any questions, give us a call. I'll pick up a lot faster pickup than I am. But I have a beat on the live chat. So you want to text, you want to call John Dreman. Yeah, so we'll start wrapping it out here. But you guys, thank you for coming on like like they said us night Vision dot com. Uh. And then thankfully Duncan and John thank you for used code mof for three percent off. And so yeah, definitely get on the website, check the products out if you guys. If you guys have any questions, reach out to me, reach out to Phil. I have their the fourteen thirty ones. Uh. If I ever see you in person, whether it's at a MDFI class or if you're in Grand Rapids area, hit me up. I'll let you look through mine and I will sell you on night Vision because it's a game changer and I've hopefully, I've been trying to send some business here guys away over the last couple of years since I bought these, and I've had some people convinced it's just a matter of them pulling that trigger on the purchase. But no, thank you guys both for coming on. Greatly appreciate it, greatly honored, and I really hope that we can get you guys down again. Likewise, yep, so we'll go ahead and pump this one out the door. Appreciate John and Dunkey for coming on, Appreciate the listeners for the questions, and this will not be the last time we have to have this conversation, because this rabbit hole has rabbit holes. But matter of fact, heading out the door, good night to her body, ya Una,